January 5 2004

Is his Thai internet bride a con-girl? #2

Is his Thai internet bride a con-girl?

Today we learn more about the ordeal of Mark, a 46 year-old American accountant who chose an 18 year-old Thai bride from AmericanSingles.com. His concerned friend wrote to me again. If you haven't done so already, you should read her original letter first.

1) For the 5 months while she ("Nok") was back in Bangkok awaiting K-3 approval, and living with the "brother", she talked to Mark (yes, she does have fairly good English) for 2-3 hours every day on phone, and asked him for a divorce at least once a week!! But Mark would always say "no", you must come to the US first, and then I'll give you a divorce;

My question: Whose $ was she living on that enabled her to be available to talk to Mark for 3 hours a day, or was she living off her ponce boyfriend's revenues for a change and would a boyfriend allow her to talk to Mark that much? What made her change her mind and come to the U.S. after all, 5 months later.

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David replies:

We can be fairly certain that Nok was living off the generosity of the various farang men that she met through AmericanSingles.com. When they return home, it is estimated that up to 40% of men send money back to their new Thai "girlfriend". Lovesick men are suckers for a good sob story and many Thai women have learned how to exploit this. Some girls have half a dozen men sending them a generous monthly allowance. For the girls who are clever enough to carry it off, the rewards are good.

It's not easy though. Remaining in constant touch with all these men by phone and email is hard work. When Mark was with Nok for 2 whole weeks, her daily 2-hour solo visits to her "brother's condo" might have allowed her to do exactly this. Just imagine the web of lies she would have had to weave if two of her men had arrived in Thailand at the same time.

It's unlikely that Nok's Thai boyfriend was making any contribution. A Thai ponce might flash a bit of cash to hook his girl but, from then on, she will support him. He won't mind her seeing other fellas though - so long as it's just for money.

I don't know why Nok decided to live with Mark in America. Unhappy people often suppose (wrongly) that a change of scene will improve their lives. Inevitably, though, they take their problems with them and usually acquire a few more. For young Thai women on the make, offers of marriage crop up all the time. When I chat with the girls who are mulling over their offers, I'm always struck by their lack of enthusiasm. Like most young women, they prefer pop-stars and footballers to middle-aged accountants. They usually seem prepared to go along with it though. Perhaps they are victims of their own opportunistic nature. Many don't have a lot to lose.

2) Just prior to her arrival in the U.S., she emailed 10 digital photos to Mark's office, of 4-yr old twin girls, claiming they were her "half-sisters", and her father's daughters (no mention of a step mother) and lived with him. (In one of the the photos I saw, she was in the picture with the twins themselves).

My question: Could one, or both of these children be hers and it was her way of breaking the news to Mark that she has kids?

David replies:

Thai girls are quite sentimental and will often show-off photos of their relative's children - particularly if they don't have any of their own. It's perfectly reasonable that Nok's father should marry again and produce a second family. Though she might have no interest in his new wife, she would probably bond with the children. Sending their pictures to Mark makes sense. She might have been trying to convince him that she had a soft and nurturing side. Maybe she sent the same photos to all her guys.

Asian skin is soft and easily damaged. Giving birth to twins would have turned her abdomen into a road map. If they are hers, Mark would know. I have no reason to doubt that she's telling the truth.

3) She claims to have gone to live with her biological mother in Hong Kong (she had a passport prior to meeting Mark) between ages 5 and 10, then returned to live with her father in Bangkok (Nok never mentions having any communication with her biological mother, since leaving Hong Kong).

My question: Could her biological mother have simply been the minor wife of her surgeon-father, and a hi-class "working girl" who returned to Hong Kong for various reasons, thus the father's accusations of her mother being "no good", to this day?

David replies:

I don't believe that Nok's mother was a prostitute. In Thailand, prostitutes are 10 a penny. No woman would leave prosperous Hong Kong to sell her body for peanuts in a third-world country. It's far more likely that she was a legitimate wife from a good family. The Chinese merchant-classes have an international outlook. Marriages like this are commonplace.

Many men feel hostile towards their ex-wives so it doesn't surprise me that Nok's father expresses only resentment. That Nok was dragged over to Hong Kong adds weight to her story. It's consistent with a messy middle-class custody battle. If she were lying, she would have spun a less complicated story. Fabricating 5 years in Hong Kong would require some serious research.

4) Unfortunately, Mark did sign-off on everything she said she wanted to put on her visa application without questioning it, and where she wanted to "modify" the truth on things, he went along with it.

My question: Since she could have falsified just about anything on her visa application (with make-up on she looks 23 years old), including her age, could SHE be the minor wife of this Thai surgeon she calls her father, and the children theirs? Also, how was she able to establish proof of a relationship to the U.S. State Department, when she had only known Mark for 6 weeks when they got married?

David replies:

Many men become willing conspirators in their own undoing. Instead of seeing the visa application process as a safeguard, they treat it as an obstacle that has to be overcome at any cost. Convinced that their girl is "the one", they set aside her past behavior in the sincere (but hopeless) belief that she will change. Because he has no money, Mark had less to lose than most guys.

Her success in obtaining the visa was probably down to her middle-class background. Based on what you have told me, the main thrust of her story seems to be true. The interviewer would have been impressed by her good manners and the supporting documents would have backed her up. The only thing that she would have had to lie about was the nature and length of her relationship with Mark. With him backing her up, this must have been a cinch.

5) NOW FOR THE BIGGIE - "Nok" had no idea until she arrived stateside, that Mark is abjectly poor, lives like a bum in a small old apartment referred to as the "slums" of Atlanta, with old furniture, drives a 22-year old car that is falling apart, and can barely pay his rent (he's an alcoholic and has no friends save me and I don't want to be around her because I feel she is the worst thing that could have happened to him at this time in his life and may lead to his suicide before its all over). Also, he has severe Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) that renders him unable to keep anything clean or organized (thus the impulsivity that drove the marriage proposal so quickly); therefore, his tiny apartment is always dirty and in a state of disrepair (She has no one to talk to and no transportation during the day while he works, so she can't escape even if she wanted to, for now).

My question: Since she is becoming painfully aware each day that she underestimated Mark's financial viability (he owns nothing and his credit cards are maxed out), is she simply biding her time, awaiting her Green Card while looking on internet for his replacement daily? Is she angry at herself for misjudging his situation? Is her resentment toward him mounting, so that destructive violent episodes of her trashing his apartment are only going to increase in severity and frequency until she can find an escape route, or go back to Bangkok?

David replies:

Yes, yes and yes. Before she left Thailand, Nok may have believed that Mark had more to offer her. In his desire to win her over, he may have omitted a few facts from his own story. Alternatively, he may have been completely honest about his circumstances but she saw him as a useful stepping-stone.

Now, however, she finds herself in a trap. Socially isolated and with no money of her own, she's effectively Mark's prisoner. Her resentment must be growing by the day. When she trashed his apartment she was acting like a prisoner wrecking her cell. Like many insecure western husbands, he's keeping his Thai wife like an exotic pet and will never agree to let her go home.

If she stays on in America, Nok will eventually find her feet but she will never have a normal career. For her, success means either finding a wealthy husband or turning to prostitution. Her disturbed personality might make it hard for her to find a decent and stable partner. Most likely, she will continue to hook-up with a succession of ponces and suckers. When things go wrong, I predict that she will turn up like a bad penny to put Mark through the emotional wringer again. Thai women have a tendency to collect men. Nok will only cut Mark out of her life when she has no further use for him.

For now, Mark has the upper hand but it won't last. Nok is too clever to remain a prisoner. One day, she'll find a way out. Most likely, her opportunity will come in the form of another man. It might be one of Mark's relatives, his co-workers or the pizza-delivery boy. Perhaps she will meet someone in an internet chat room. Only one thing is certain - her behaviour will drive Mark to the edge. I hope he can find the strength to let her go and rebuild his life.

The drama unfolds...

[Posted to Your Letters by David]

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Readers' comments

Mike says:

My Buddha.

May 3, 2004 5:08 AM

farrang says:

Sorry guys......................

it is about being just a little street wise, you fall for that kinda shit whereever you go, spain it is the pea under the shell trick to get your money, Italy it is the burst tyre, Thais (well some of them) use sex. So if you are a sucker then fall for it without a parachute........me I been around a bit and if I get bitten fucked if Im going to tell a notice board!!!

So good luck and watch out for pea shooters aiming at your tyres with a thai mechanic prepared to fix the puncture!!!

August 7, 2004 5:32 AM

Schizophrenic says:

Still have to read the rest of this story(#3+#4),
but i have to say it warms my cynical,
hardened heart to see a thai con girl finding that her prince charming is a bit less than he claimed to be,
rather than the constant flow of suckers the other way round,never mind,theres plenty of pimps in the u.s.
looking for fresh young thai girls,she'll have an exciting career on her back in seedy motels all over atlanta in no time.

May 3, 2006 9:13 PM

Babymama says:

I'm a Thai girl and I am one of those pets who was colleted. It's different story though. I didn't meet a father of my unborn baby on website. But he turned out the same thing. Keep me only in the house, and have been cheating on me with girls over on internet and hooked up with them. I'm tired. I'm going home. I don't mind to be a single mom. I know it's tough but it is better to live with a dog. Do you know what I mean? A dog always chasiing for pussy.

I know some thai girl is finding her way out of Thailand for better oppotunity...but you know there are still some that really want love and want someone to take care of them.

Not all are bad.

January 9, 2007 9:31 PM

Dicer says:

"but you know there are still some that really want love and want someone to take care of them." - Babymama

Babymama:

Just because someone loves you does not mean they are going to take care of you. Two ideas that are mixed up.

You are Thai right? Good.

Do you know what Mudita means? Itâ€™s not a Thai word so you might not know it. Mudita is one of the things I like best about Thais and concomitantly, Theravadan Buddhism: it means something like appreciation of others; enjoy the success or good luck of another. This is a Pali term and I think an example will best demonstrate what it means. My demo for this is going to the department store, and buying an item that is intended as a gift. In the UK unless the clerk is euphoric on a new drug, when you say, â€œCould you please gift wrap this?â€ they will look surprised, and snarl, lips twisting up in rage (isnâ€™t this the same face you geezers trying to get a dance with girls on Friday night in Bromley-By-Bow? And both arms shoot out to push the item away -letâ€™s say itâ€™s a shirt- and they say, â€œNooooooâ€ in an insulted and angry voice which has the emphatic English meaning: Are you out of you fucking mind? In fact, the clerk might query if you are on some mind-bending drug. If you want to gift wrap your thing, go buy paper, ribbon, tape and go home and wrap it your fucking self!

Why am I talking about this Babymama? Wull hang on hereâ€¦

â€˜Service-mindedâ€™ is a term for Thais, and thatâ€™s it. It is something that does not exist in many other societies. And there are other little things like getting your trousers tailored on the spot free in a store, come back in 15 minutes. My local post office has a wrap-it department ready for you. In the UK the Royal Mail staff would scoff at me behind the glass.This kind of service even suggested in the West is unconscionable and will bring the wrath of the clerk down on you. Unless you are in the al-Fayed class, you do not have a made and actually fix your own car, your own refrigerator, and your own air con when they go kaput, spawning a huge supply of HOW TO DO IT books. And Alan fucking Titchmarsh dribbling on about weedsâ€¦

Now, back to the bkk department store: you take the gift shirt and plop it in front of a clerk - 9 times out of 10 from the Isan provinces if female, which I assume is where youâ€™re from - and I say â€œKor gadat kong kwanâ€ (I am requesting birthday paperâ€¦gift wrap) and instead of flying into a snit, if not a full rage, the clerk â€¦letâ€™s say female but male might do the same â€¦will get a big smile as they look at your item, their eyes will dew over, and mudita has hit; they are sharing in the joy of giving to a friend. And, with continued happiness they will deftly wrap your gift beaming as though they were giving the present themselves. People from non-service countries (the West in general) will be a bit astonished at this. In fact, if you arenâ€™t watching, you might miss or not understand the pure pleasure the clerk is exuding amidst the gift-wrapping. Of course, at Christmas time when Thais go as mad as anyone else and the stores have gift-wrap queues, they will start charging a slight fee. Thatâ€™s understandable.

Mudita is a desideratum for the West. Now another concept that is so positive, critical thinking Western people can barely believe it:

ROLE PLAYING THAI WOMEN SEE THEMSELVES MORE AS CARING THAN LOVING.

Babymama? Can you see the differenceâ€¦.ok letâ€™s see hereâ€¦.

The Western idea of love, is about a couple becoming one through time. I call it the DAGWOOD AND BLONDIE ILLUSION but not for Thai girls like Babymama here who are playing rolesâ€¦ROLES ROLES ROLESâ€¦folks doing roles, keep playing roles.

Caring is a theme for role-play societies. This is obviously one of those human attributes that may have got lost in the industrial revolution (nobody bloody does it in Manchester or Liverpool where it all started), modernisation, and now lacking in todayâ€™s cyber non-family Post Nice world. But Thais still have it and it is nearly as nice as mudita. Caring that is.

BTW how old is your man Babymama?

I ask because old geezers have an advantage. In no time they are going to be in the geriatric terminal stages of life and, luckily, they have someone (like you) who will really take care of them. Something clicks in Thai womenâ€™s minds and they know just what to do: TAKE CARE. In the West old people are abandoned in nursing homes, since it is no longer politically correct to take them to Alaska and put them on ice floats like the mythic Eskimos did with the elderly.

Caring is consensual and at a price. There is great service in restaurants where girls will dash over and pour your drinks, put in ice, etc. They even have the NO HANDS RESTAURANTS and Iâ€™ll leave that up to your imagination. At one post sky view restaurant venue, the waitresses are like Isis priestesses in tight wrapped gold silk and come to your table on their knees. Yup, scooting along on the knees. This is really exotic and not only piques the Western mind but this kind of service inspired Burmese, Khmer and maybe Mongols in the old days to hunt down some of the unbelievable â€˜court women.â€™ If you are in the Thaniya Plaza area of Silom (also known as Little Ginza) and wander into one of the Japanese karaoke places (they usually do not admit farang), be prepared for extra special treatment. Here the girls are trained to wait on you. They will sit next to you, put ice in your drink, and pop a supply of snacks into your mouth if you are not singing over a microphone. And, I might add, these girls are at the top of being polite. But, you are going to pay for it. The bill at the end of the evening is going to be in the thousands and they will expect one of those silly over-done extravagant Japanese tips. So, unless you are a big spender, or Japanese, avoid Thaniya Plaza.

A spectacular and hard to believe taking care event happens in Pattaya when the US navy and Marines show up. In just hours the fellows still in uniform have had enough beer to put them out for the evening. At this point, the bar girls load the rather large boys up, and manage to pull, drag and push them back to some hotel. Now, youâ€™d think immediately these guys are going to get rolled and, Pattaya being an increasingly dodgy place, that surely happens. But not as often as youâ€™d imagine. The girls are taking care of their customers. Taking care was also the theme of an episode related by a UK Embassy official to me of a case of an old Brit in bkk who was penniless, sick and on deathâ€™s door but cared for by a few bar girls. For some hard to imagine reason (caring), they looked after this man who had a horrible skin disease. Finally the embassy was called when the fellow passed away and this was what was irritating: the official said, â€œWe had to pick up the body and send it back to the UK. This is the worst part of my jobâ€¦send back defunct penniless people causing a lot of trouble and expense to tax payers." The point is Thais caring even for foreigners and not complaining about it.

Babymama, you should have learnt this a while back: The Westâ€™s desideratum is taking care while what you are talking about is that and not love. Good luck to ya.

January 9, 2007 10:36 PM

Eddie says:

SHE's a scammer. Here's my story of a "good" middle class, 37 yo girl:

I believe that I have been a victim of a Fiance Visa fraud and scam by Sorada. She obtained my fiance visa. But she broke off communications with me by email on March 6. She said not to contact her again and 'do what ever you want!'

But in reality she then still pretended to be in Thailand (using email, but claimed she no longer had a phone) but was actually left Thailand a few weeks ago without details or telling me what she was doing. She never sent me copies of the visa. We had previously agreed that I would send her a ticket on ANA for April 10 to come here and make our life and future family in Virginia.

She is operating in the US somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico. I don't know where she is, who she was with, or what she was doing here. SHE NEITHER SAW ME NOR CONTACTED ME PERSONALLY HERE! She never spoke by phone to me.

I believe that she entered on the West Coast and first stayed with her relative there.

Once I found out that she was in the US somewhere, she refused to give her actual location and contact number. Once I confronted her by an email message, she asked me to allow her to stay and not report it.

The family from Bangkae Bangkok had come here and she wanted a $25KUS dowry from me. I refused. She also wanted me to buy her cousin's business in Los Angeles for $300K because she said he was returning to Thailand and in 2007. I told her I was not interested.

She also said she needed $600/mo to sustain herself before she left for the USA.

I believe that she is running a scam to get fiance support visas and then request money. I believe that she is soliciting other men for a fiance visa and/or investments while she is here.

I canceled her visa by express letter to the USCIS Vermont Center on March 12. I had made a 'missing persons' report with the FBI. I contaced ice.gov about it. I sent certified letters to the Embassy and USCIS Bangkok.

I can offer my assistance with any investigation or statements.

I don't want anyone else to suffer what I have been through with this fraud. I don't want her to do this to anyone else in the future.

Victimized Scammed American fiance in Virginia

March 23, 2007 10:10 AM

daznlover says:

You did well in reporting the matters to the authorities. If things are done well, she can be forbidden to enter the US again for a long time, once she is found.
Which is clearly deserved, scammers have no place in US.

March 23, 2007 11:29 AM

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