Mac attack: Westerner beaten in Bangkok Apple Store

King Kong says:

A 30 foot screen - Big Mac - I'm lovin' it!

Jimmyboy says:

Oh dear oh dear not getting your eyes ripped out of their sockets again followed by a swift beating from women. Talok Jeroen whatever your name is, I thought getting mugged in Pantip then promptly telling everyone on a chatroom about it, followed by being mugged and your laptop being taxed would be enough for you to stop being a gonk, Clearly not it seems, Some never learn do they???

Daniel says:

I've also had issues at the same store, they sell refurbished goods as new and when my headset didn't work and i noticed the refurb sticker, i went back for a refund.

the assistant said that they didn't do refunds and wanted to charge me 10% to put the money back on my card. I called HSBC and reported a fraudulent transaction and let them deal with it.

This guy was pretty stupid, it's a known fact that Thai's will do anything to save face, especially lie.

Telemachus says:

No bigger, bigger waving cat! Full screen waving cat!!!!!

Dana says:

Ok, I just can not resist because my desire to learn is so great. I'll post the question and then followups can educate me.

"You mean the behavior of the store employee(s), security personnel, police, and bystanders was appropriate?"

Ok, here is another question while you are all composing your educational emails to this site.

"Are you all crazy?"

Telemachus says:

What a story. With that camera I would have said I was a magazine fashion photographer on assignment and asked the store chick out for coffee. I'm sure everything would have worked out for the best then.

Steve Jobs says:

Apple is known throughout the world for its exceptional service, especially from its Apple Stores.

The minute she gave him lip, he should of asked for the manager. If no manager, he should have pulled out his mobile and called Apple in the US, and then his credit card company, which would never accept one of their customers being defrauded right there and then.

For an order of 188,000 baht, why the hell wasn't he dealing with the manager when the employee doing the sale was clearly wrong in the beginning and acting inappropriately?

We are not talking about sending back a piece of undercooked meat.

Did he ever find out if he really did owe 12,000 baht more?

Also, for one to be held hostage in a Apple store seems a little far fetched.

How did he escape from he store? Do a Hollywood dive through the front window and run wildly through Siam Discovery like the mall chase scene in the movie The Blues Brothers?

Where was the manager in all this?

Was he down at the food court slurping his kuaytiew? Did he have his finger stuck in his ass in the back room?

Service in Thailand is normally abysmal wherever you go, but when you deal with management directly, they usually whip the phrai into shape.

I have a friend who when dealing with a Thai with an attitude, which is often, politely asks for the manager right away, and if that manager is also an asshole, he asks for the district manager, and will go all the way up the chain of command until he get what he wants. This strategy is effective.

You'd think a guy who could afford a brand new $5000 Apple, a condo and all kinds of expensive toys would have the brains to deal with troublesome customer service representatives.

With all that being said, this guy is really screwed: violence, false estimony, police is the perfect storm that no foreigner ever wants to face in Thailand.

I feel bad for the guy and violence was never justified by the other side, but he could have been handled it better in a million different ways.

Now that things are over, I would call the main office of Apple and report the incident.

If he is American, he could contact usaforinnovation.com, which has been making a big stink lately in the international media about Americans getting ripped of by the Thais.

Author says:

Thanks for printing my story David.

I pressed counter charges, the entire case has been dropped when they realized the incident was on Mall security video and they could be in a shit load of trouble.

I had to pay 100bt paperwork fee at the police station.

The store owner now says he will refund the money but I will have to pay a fee!
Wrong.

Mac says:

As David pointed out, the request for the additional 12,500 baht was almost certainly due to a genuine mistake. This guy should have simply done the math, verified that indeed there *was* a mistake and then ponied up the outstanding amount. Easy.

If it *was* an unwarranted extra charge, he could have simply stood his ground, spoken to the manager/owner and insisted on fair market price. Easy.

It almost sounds as if it was the customer here who was trying to pull a fast one by attempting to take advantage of somebody's mistake and get away with paying less than what he knew to be the correct price, and then backing out when it looked like he would have to pay the standard price after all.

Did it occur to him that the 12,500 baht mistake might have represented the loss of the saleswoman's salary for the entire month? Well she might kick and scratch over that, though it might only be chump change to a guy who can afford that many toys in one pop.

C says:

hmmm dont knwo if this is totally true maybe you insulted them, I knwo when I get angry at some of the stupid social things in this country I would let out the phrase ' f**king Thailand'. If you keep your cool and occasionally laugh at the matter between sentences it will calm the situation and you will probably get a better result. With Thai people it is important to never lose your cool because Thais just will not want to know. This is their country and I bet you would of considered your behaviour in relation to the situation fair but over here it might have been taken by the shop and staff as something totally different. I do feel for you though but in any situation such as this just report it to your credit card company and then VISA in Thailand will investigate it and if there has been a crime the police will be called and the shop will be dealt with.

I find that the Thai women who get angry at you are the ones who have been fucked over by a farang boy much the same as yourself.

Chris the Swede says:

Does anyone in a management position know about this story? David, did you forward it to Apple? Would be great to hear the response.

Another blogger says:

When I read this I get a feeling there is more to this story than "name withheld" has told us.

chop_kin_hoi says:

The apple store rotten to the core :-)

S & W says:

Dana! How are u doing? Long time no see. But you are totally right. This could happen anytime, anyplace to any of us foreigners in Bangkok. I once got slapped at an MBK print shop just because they were unable to design a simple brochure. This was a wake up call for me and since then I treat the Thais like dangerous children, especially the ones from the lower echelon.

Nayshit-Smythe says:

Just report it to Apple themselves. It's very hard to get an authorised dealership from them. They'll step in and sort it out. Siam Discovery's dealership is at risk.

bob says:

this is something that expats have to get used to in LOS! you have no rights, you will always be in the wrong ,so before you sail away to your thai paradise bear that in mind.

alanjeen says:

I believe that the woman employee who attacked the Westerner is an ethnic Chinese(Thai Chinese) and probably educated abroad-most likely Singapore.How do I know?-because I am Chinese and from Singapore.Chinese women are the worst-more so if they are from or educated in Singapore.
Ask any Westener who married a Chinese woman,esp a Singaporean and they will tell you what hell is like.

Common Sense says:

WOOHOO,
The waving cat has returned. Wtth the return of the waving cat, the off topic pissing match, and the seeming demise of Prufrock, Mango Sauce has returned to its full glory.

Great work David.

Geoff says:

Physical abuse, outrageous prices, jail time.....I still think owning a Mac would be worth it....

Jason Sore says:

Talok ? wow. Im suprised you even found time to go shopping , as you spend almost all day and night posting on the
Bangkokchat forums !..as for the way the incident turned out, based on your version of events, it seems to be YOUR fault. You are not a very savvy consumer, or very familiar with Thai ways. As for what you SHOULD have done, it goes something like this : wait for the computer to arrive as promised. when it doenst, call the Tourist Police and tell them youve paid 220k baht and got no product. also contact your credit card company and report what happened. If you have a solid card issuer,they wil be on your side., ALWAYS shift the blame to others, act the dumb victim tourist (which shouldt be hard for you ! )...besides, you dont really need a computer like that anyway, its too much machine for a euro-pussy like you anyway !

broadbandbully says:

Cancel the credit card transaction Man!

You are not in receipt of the goods and arn't confident you will ever receive them. All credit card companies will usually come down on the side of the customer and screw the retailer.

I know Dana "This is Thailand". However even Thailand can't compete with a large credit company that as a larger GDP than Thailand.

I'm sure their is going to have be a small payment made to the local Constabulary, I would have thought a mid four figure sum would be sufficient and half that to have the local motorbike taxi crew torch the Apple Shop.

Next time try the Apple Shop at Future Park Rangsit, Cheaper than Bangkok and always give excellent service.

---------------------------------------

The cat is back, but it needs star billing at the top of the page and alot larger please.

Carry on.

Beware says:

In a 3rd world country (not only Thailand) if life is good, you are having a ball. But if you screw up and get them angry, you are in for a rough ride!

Actually, you were lucky that a mob didn't beat you or stabbed you. Who knows what might have happened to you.

Follow the civilized ways (CCard cancellation), avoid confrontation.

Reading this site has really been enlightening to see that many guys here admit to avoid confrontation and even swallow pride in order to be safe.

Dicer says:

Chihuahuas nipping the waldo zeta gerbil farang idiot. What's new?
This is about boundaries and limitations not to mention the geezer's ignorance about the procedure to recoup his money via Visa. If its a credit card he can explain the situation to his card co and payment is cancelled straight away or a chargeback of a proportion of the disputed transaction or the whole amouint is made back to the merchant's bank. i.e. credit protection is in place. Didn't he know about chargeback when he applied for the card?

Also there is always a delay before the cardholder has to settle up with the card provider, which allows the card provider (on behalf of the chap) to claim the money back from the merchant's bank that processed the transaction (on behalf of the merchant,) because no delivery was made. Obviously not having goods delivered when a card is charged is top of the list of rules of when a chargeback can be done. Simple.

Bottomline is he's capable of handling neither mutant Chuhuahua's nor basic transaction rules.

Lumphini says:

You seem to take exception that all this was going on in Thai language, as if this is done in some deliberate manner to deceive you.

zetsurin says:

If it is an Apple Store then they must have some rights granted by Apple USA...? If someone has any idea who to write an email to at Apple I'd love to inform them of this incident.

Thais should not be allowed to just simply get away with this kind of crap these days. Especially at a store in Siam Discovery!

Problem is we (us forigners) don't stick together. In the US should this happen it'd be in the news and the Asians would be all up in arms. Happens here and the guy get's blamed for being an idiot... Hey we've all been a little overly pissed off at being scammed and it does't mean we deserve our credit card details kept and charges made..

Anyone have an idea how to go about informing Apple of this incident?

Marc Holt says:

Vote with our feet! Never go there.

Who would be silly enough to buy a MAC anyway? ;-)

DB says:

The story sucks, but I could see myself doing the same thing. How would Apple feel if they knew their employees were assaulting customers in Asia? No way in the US would customer service be so shitty that you have to risk being assaulted by sales clerks anywhere, no matter what you did. As an American company, even if it is in Siam Discovery, the store emloyees should be educated in customer service as they would be in any Apple store here, and follow the same code of conduct towards customers.

I would take it up with Apple, and have them make the charges be dropped.

Good luck dude.

Combover says:

"If he gets a Thai person to negotiate on his behalf, there's still a good chance that this dispute can be settled amicably"

Agreed, but I would suggest an older male of good standing would be a better bet than a 2am Soi Nana street special.

Jack says:

"I know when I get angry at some of the stupid social things in this country I would let out the phrase ' f**king Thailand'"

I'd be pretty careful when you say that. If you say it slowly it could be interpreted as something far more offensive that really could land you in jail.

Common Sense says:

I'm thinking the girls reaction had more to do with the loss of her commission if the PC was refunded. The 12,500 Baht probably was a mistake, or the commission itself. I'm not 100% sure about Thailand, but I know in Japan the gratuity/commission is added to the total price. Could be the same in Thailand and she forgot to add it.

12,500 Baht on a 188,000 Baht purchase comes out to about a 6.6% commission. Sounds plausible.

I'd flip the fuck out too if I lost a months salary.

Slarty Breakfarts says:

Of course their behaviour is inappropriate on all possible levels. But like lions, sharks, or ants in a feeding frenzy, we can question their stupidity, bloodlust, or just plain follow-the-leader sheep behaviour of the angry mob all day long - or just accept that it will happen when there is blood in the water and the numbers are stacked. As the crowd grows, the chances of sensible negotiation plummet. If you don’t speak Thai confidently and forcefully enough to convince people they are screwing with the wrong person (and few people can pull this off), then you’d be a fool to try.

The angry mob is far from a uniquely Thai phenomenon of course.

Generally Thais are subservient and respectful of those they perceive as important/wealthy etc - on the other they are fiercely nationalistic, oppressed, repressed etc. When the opportunity presents itself to 'stick it to the man' it can be too appealing for many to walk away from. A lot of the crowd might just be curious onlookers - not really angry, but interested in seeing the road accident all the same.

I have seen this several times and been on the receiving end of it myself once in a minor traffic accident which I was 0.00% at fault. A guy hit the rear quarter of my stationary vehicle with his motor bike hard enough to make him spill the bike. I stopped, helped him up, checked he was ok. He was wai-ing and apologising etc, and probably keen to make a quick exit before I inspected the damage to my car, or the plod arrived. Guilt is guilt.

And then the ever-supportive crowd gathers led by some 2 brain cell f-wit who starts yelling and pointing at me, finger 2 inches from my nose. First instinct was to deck the twat, which sensibly I refrained from doing. The situation has already got to the point where the guy who hit me can't or won't step in and say "hey my fault, no biggy" - there's too much collective face to be lost if the ‘victim’ doesn’t win.

I did the only sensible thing, negotiated a quick settlement (I asked how much the repairs to his bike would be - 500THB offered and accepted) smiled, shook hands, wai-ed, farted and drove off.

Several people have explained to me how much tougher and smarter they would have handled this scenario - by just driving off, waiting for the police, punching a random bar girl, drinking their own piss or whatever - the end result would have been far more costly, and may have resulted in injury. For what? A moral victory? To demonstrate that we always win? Teach them not to do it again?

Choose your battles wisely. When ripped of by a ‘respectable’ business there are plenty of sensible ways to get wrongs righted, or failing that wreak righteous revenge. Be smart. And make sure that your actions cost the company money, not individual staff.

In this case I’m leaning towards the company – sounds like a genuine mistake, and most ‘Apple people’ I’ve met……

NotAnyBangkok RelatedWebsite.com says:

"but I know in Japan the gratuity/commission is added to the total price."

Err, no. In Japan the price on the sticker is the price you pay.

Bill Gates says:

I would have prevented that entire situation by buying a Windows PC instead, but that's just me.

Bill Gates

Dicer says:

Here in London I have a friend who is in a writing group and the head is an NLP trainer who will give them a free lesson. I have been telling her about the good uses of NLP and now she can see it at work. I also noted with an added sting that NLP is really refined common sense.

Once you finally figure out that everyone is NOT you, that there are differences and if you know what to look for, you open up.

Through the years you find that visual people can IMAGINE the NLP types and catch on. Kino feelers - like the lao assitant who slapped him - go crazy until at last someone understands them. Auditories like the Chinese (or even many yanks here) have a built in denial system and reject everything. Maybe that is why NLP did not teach by books or lectures but direct experience. In my training you had a partner for 5-10 min experiences and then change so you got to really interact with other people in specific modality situations. No one said, here is what you will learn. Instead you sat back and said Holy Mole.

You can have many people who are outwardly intelligent but are poor thinkers as their perceptions are wrong. If you start with thr wrong perceptions no matter how clever your logic or how intellegent you are your thinking is in the end wrong. A lot of what people say here about the Thais is wrong not because of the flow of thought but as a result of the INITIAIL ASSUMPTIONS they make. In an NLP class they might finally pop out.

Auditory people get into a ME FIRST crab like thing and are defensive by nature. This lady in a writing grooup is a genius over 170 IQ and was top of her grad school. She was also a head exec at a multinational in Bangkok for 16 years before she retired and moved back to the UK. In BKK the Thais would nip at her - like this story - all the time and all the time she'd go into denial. The point: no one including her husband would credit her for common sense...so maybe NLP is just back to basics.

Someone above suggested that Thais can be like dangerous kids. True. So how to handle the situation? First thing remember that most businesses in Thailand have Chinese bosses who want to make the business succeed. Also most businesses in Thailand have central or lao assistants who are overworked and underpaid and do not really care if they are fired or not. What Thais hate more than being fired is BEING SCOLDED BY ANYONE INCLUDING A BOSS. Well, dangerous children do not like to have fingers pointed at them and being told they are naughty.

Second thing to remember is the SIZE of the transaction. Someone above suggested he ask for the manager. Yes. Get that Chinese manager out of his office to talk to you. The audie Chinese wants you in purchase and out with the customary sales banter thrown in. So as you walk in immediately you assert the level of service you require without saying much. Your appearance gait and mannerism matter.

The lao assistants here are enraged kino feelers through and through. When they get a chance to cheat and steal and insult you they'd go for it. As there is no future thinking involved they don't consider consequences. So DONT ARGUE with shop assistants.

So what should he have done differently apart from asking for the manager and staying CALM AND ASSERTIVE?

Looking at one other comment above about an accident with a bike there is one thing that never fails to amaze (and amuse) me.

If you decide to live in another country YOU ALWAYS NEED A BUFFER TO SORT THINGS OUT FOR YOU. How difficult is it to get a well connected lawyer? I, like many here have had my share of transactions that go wrong. I was also involved in a bike accident followed a few years later by a minor car accident. On all occasions when things go wrong - although I speak the language well - I get on my mobile and call my lawyer or his office or his personal number and whatever time of day he'd send someone over. If the cops arrive you GIVE THEM HIS CARD call him and let them talk to him. Once you show that you have connections and are not one of those ordinary tourists passing through it means you have won the first of many battles. Ditto with a car accident. You stay calm and let someone else deal with it and pay for the services.

Example: A mate who has same same deal and pays the same retention fee to my lawyer was galavanting around northern Thailand on his Harley. One night in Chiang Mai a drunk in an SUV came out of nowhere and knocked him down. He had cuts and bruises on his face and legs. The cops arrived. The ambulance arrived. The cops wanted him in the ambulance and gone. As they could clearly see that the SUV driver was drunk this was their chance to make good money. Although he was in shock my mate still possessed the common sense of not being rush and wanting to deal with the cops himself. It was 1AM but he still called the lawyer. The lawyer was in BKK so he couldn't come himself. However he took the location and told him one of his assistants would be with him shortly. In the mean time he asked him to give his card to cops and pass the phone over. The lawyer introduced himself as so and so and so and so's golf buddy etc... The cops could see now that THIS FARANG IS NOT LIKE ALL OTHER FARANGS. They processed the paperwork as they would do and once he received a receipt and handed his Harley over to our lawyer's assistant - otherwise the cops or anyone could nick it - he jumped into the ambulance and went to the hospital. The lawyer fee for this specific case was about 9000 baht. The lawyer dealt with it and several weeks later the driver's insurance paid 12,000 baht to fix the Harley. 9000 baht well spent. The buffer here are the lawyer and his assistant who facilitate all transactions because at the end of the day everything - even dealing with the law - is a transaction in Thailand. And if you know the rules or even better have a buffer who knows all the rules and can fix it for a fee then you save yourself a lot of hassle.

Now you can't call a lawyer everytime a silly little Lao girl short changes you. So common sense and being able to judge situations is always needed.

In Thailand you can find college kids or even office adults who are actually like junior high students that would make Cho look like a therapist. There is no guessing that they have little time bombs inside.

The cherry of the story was when he went home and decided he'd deal with it later!

Common Sense says:

NotAnyBangkok RelatedWebsite.com,
Your right, the Japs are smart enough to include the gratuity/commision in the sticker price. This is automatically included in all restaurants, which is why there is no tipping.

I know some companies, but not all, add a commission to the sale price when an actual sales rep assists with the purchase. I've seen it many times and even fucked a girl who was in sales who explained it to me.

Genie in a bottle says:

Maybe there is more to it than what is printed? Maybe he asked her to go back to his house for a short time?

Dicer says:

CS,

Did you work out a commission for the girl after she gave you the shag plus explanation or was it all in one?

Anonymous says:

Possibly a scam and possibly a mistake.

Either way, the new deliverd price was now set above the agreed upon delivered price.
They were not delivering the goods. The contract was broken, nullified.
Doesn't a person have the right to just simply cancel the transaction at that point?
Somthing fishy was happening with that sales staff, otherwise a normal reversal of credit card transaction would have been performed.

Some disrespectfull punk salesperson telling the Farang customer he must accept the new deal then physically blocking the exit?

Grabbing the signed credit card receipt might have been better thought out but this is Thailand. Would you want these people having your credit card number and signed paperwork?

Just another case of a greedy Thai killing another golden goose.

Chico says:

I went to that shop about 8 months ago when I was looking to buy a Mac. I had a look around at all the computers and they were happy to let me play on them for a while. I didnt actually buy my Mac from there eventually, but I can believe their behavior which is discraceful.

I bought my computer from MiniMac in Pantip.. They were pretty cool when I bought it as they installed loads of software for me. Although, when I returned to the shop for some support they werent particularly helpful. I did put it on my credit card, which of course they charged me extra for.. I think its standard here, but strictly speaking they are not allowed to do that, and if you show evidence to your credit card company, such as the reciept and the credit card reciept they will usually refund the charge.

Macs rule!

alai wah says:

There is no excuse for the saleswoman's behavior; none. It's no surprise that after they "remembered" there were cameras, the charges were dropped. And yes, to state the obvious, saying there will be a fee for a refund is wrong as well.

This is not a shop selling fakes at Pantip, this is a shop selling Western computers for this Westerner's money and the TiT excuse just doesn't wash. As others have suggested, please let Apple in the US know, it is likely they would be interested. They are known for excellent service in the US and woudn't want this kind of incident attached to their name. Hell, they owe you a free computer now. Please let us know what else happens.

Didn't buy a Mac says:

I too went to this particular Mac store in Siam about 2 months ago and decided to not buy one in the end because the 'very pushy' sales lady was just too damn annoying.

For some odd ball reason, she couldn't quite understand why I could in one sentence 'that I liked a particular Mac' whilst pointing at it, and then going onto say but 'not today, maybe later'

As I started to walk out of the door, she grabbed my arm, dragged me back in, shoved a clip board under my nose and told me to fill in my details so she could order one... oh and while I was there, I could just pay for it with my credit card and collect it later.

Oh hello! Yeah like I was an idiot and on that aggressive pushy note I simply walked out of there. The author should have done the same and I suspect he was dealing with the same eager beaver.

By and large I pay for everything in Thailand with cold hard cash and only when I have received the necessary discounts and have what I want in my mitts in fine working order do I finally let them have the cash.

Basic rules of negotiation: Don't tip the advantage to the other party!

The rule of thumb is and should always be: If you have to pay something, simply stick down a very small deposit first. The last thing you should do is give them the final payment until you have what you ordered in your hands. If the shop doesn't like it then vote with your feet... Pure and simple.

dalek says:

ya know he should of just called Apple's Customer Service and let them deal with the store. Calling the Police is also a good idea. Taking a recipt out of a cash register very bad idea. Maybe sometime in jail will smarten him up

Common Sense says:

Dicer,
I threw in the commission on my own free will. It was a sudden burst of kindness swiftly deposited down the back of her throat. See, I'm not an asshole all the time.

SPQR_US says:

A couple of thoughts...

1st I think this whole thing sounds like a meltdown. Second it I wonder how it really got out of control.

A few months back I posted a question about a friend of mine that managed to piss me and a lot of people off while he was in Thailand. Having said that my friend was just doing it everywhere. In the author's case we are talking about a problem over what is a good deal of money.

My guess is that there may or may not have been a mistake on the part of the store. In other words it might not have been a rip-off attempt rather they were just screwed up. Of course anyone would prefer to pay the better price. Also Thais are notorious for doing back flips when trying to explain and control this process.

I've encountered a situation in the kingdom frequently whereby I get a price for airline tickets where I'm told it is for 2 since I travel with my wife. But I KNOW it is for one. Given the frequency of this I no longer believe they are lying but rather that there are a lot of sales people that don't really understand what I am asking or who are not listening to my actual questions. To a lesser extent there are the scammers but they are very easy to spot and avoid.

If it was me and I got this kind of disparity in price I would just tell them I was moving on and ask for a refund. Believe me any Thai company with a bank card machine knows to stop the games at this point. Even if they persist, relief and a refund are just a phone call and at worst a couple of weeks away.

I got trapped in a crap hotel on my last visit and was using a credit card. All I had to do was let them know it wasn't working out at the desk and let them know I was moving on. I had called my CC company right before that to confirm what options I had. It could have taken a couple of weeks if they didn't want to give me my refund right away but in the end they would have had to do that.

Knowing what the end game was as I talked to the manager had a calming affect on me prior to our discussion which was helpful. When I did meet with the folks at the front desk I let them know the deal as respectfully as I could and told them I'd be happy to pay for the time we'd spent (2 days) but that I needed to cancel our 3 rooms for the remainder of the reservation. I didn't get any problem and moved on.

Dealing with the salesperson alone at that point might have been problematic as they could have wanted to preserve a deal that had already gone south. So I did my best to keep the sales people out of it. If I ever get the run around here or anywhere with the old "manager not here crap" or the manager dodging me, then I bite the bullet and let them know:

"Wow I wish I could speak to him but I know he's really busy. I'd hoped to not have to place a call to to Visa as they keep me on hold forever, but I may need to try to work it out there. Here's my cell phone if you see the manager could you let him know? Otherwise he can call tomorrow after I've gotten through to my bank, thanks very much."

I've really been lucky in not having to go that far. Mostly I call the bank 1st to get the whole low down on what my options are. It sucks to have to do that and it takes about an hour too but things are different in the LOS.

I just bought my wife a new car so she got to see the US version of the Author's price shell game. I had a price on a new car that was $500 under DEALER invoice, and in writing from the store manager. As I got ready to write them a check the salesman pulled a bait and switch. It was infuriating!

I just got up from the table thanked mister scum bag for wasting my time and took my little brown wife out of the dealership. We drove down the street to another car dealer selling the same make and got the same price I had had before the last salesman tried to penetrate me anally. We bought the car we wanted and drove home.

In the US if someone tries to flim-flam me: we both share the same culture so everyone is on the same page. At the 1st hint of weirdness you can nail them. In Thailand that can be fatal...

DB says:

Hey, go demand a copy of that video! Now that you mention it, of course the Apple store would have video cameras.

SHOW US!!

Its a criminal offense in the US to lie in a police statement, and if proven guilty, you'd probably be in some shit. Maybe thats also the case in Thailand. You'd probably have to remind that to the cops. So get the tape, and then make the clerks admit that they LIED in their statements. HA! That would be the day!!! The first ever admittal to lying would be a big step.

Hello says:

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that he grabbed the merchants credit card receipt and tried to escape the store and the mall with the merchants copy of the receipt. I live in the USA and if this happened in an Apple store in the USA they would most likely call Mall security. What a douche bag, he doesnt deserve to even living in thailand if he cannot respect and understand the simple thai ways and customs. Flipping douche bag!

Anonymous says:

Computer and electronics stores in Thailand often sell "open box" or "refurbished" as new.
There is no way to protect yourself in Thailand.
Thais take extra pride in cheating the Farang.
It's sort of sport or entertainment for them, bragging rights for how they screwed another foreigner.
Disrespect toward foreigners in Thailand is not new.

Shop in Hong Kong or Singapore if you want to be treated fairly.

BUYER BEWARE, especially in corrupt places like the Land of Smiles.

Anonymous says:

Never ever pay for anything in Thailand untill it is in your possession and in perfect working order.
You have zero protection when problems occur.
I bought a 4,000bt HP printer and the first page printed, the paper was mangled.
The shop would only refund 1,500 bt.
They claimed the ink cartridges were now 'used" !
Yes, they deducted the price of 2 brand new ink cartridges !
The message was, you are Farange and can't do ANYTHING about it. Screw you!

Beware says:

"As I started to walk out of the door, she grabbed my arm, dragged me back in, shoved a clip board under my nose and told me to fill in my details so she could order one... oh and while I was there, I could just pay for it with my credit card and collect it later."

Damn, that saleswoman is a real pain in the ass. I wouldn't buy anything from such a store.

To report the case to Apple is very simple, look in their site for something related to Public Relations / Press, customer service and email them all. Can also email them this article link.

chicagobob says:

Similar story-different product. Bought a sofa from a well known-CENTRALly- located department store. Paid the price on the sticker, no arguments, no haggling. Tipped the guys who delivered it, and sat back to enjoy my new purchase. Long story short, over the next ten or so days, they phoned my Thai wife about 3 or 4 times, saying that the wrong sticker had been put on and we had to pay the difference. I don't remember exactly what I told her to say, but I'm pretty sure the words "fuck" and "off" were in there. Bottom line: "caveat emptor-let the buyer beware," plus, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" equals "out-Thai a Thai". Backatcha!

Annie says:

No one seem to have the points where this man is frighten for his life...with country is so corrupted and fraudt itself to the top...

The thai is known to be a liar for anything if they can gains, lawlessness is included in this land of smile...

Grunt says:

So now we have DAVID cracking open the canned debate?

The BS meter just pegged, its smoking, shes gonna blow!

Im supposed to buy this little yarn? Unsuspecting Mac user accosted by diminutive Thai's?

Till I see some writing of the calibre that available over at http://www.the-niceguy.com/ your all a pack of poseurs pretending to be "old hand". Not a one of you has set foot in the LOS, with David the *possible* exception.

I rather prefer the WWF style faux "battle" between Stick, David, and Galt. That was at least amusing and did draw in the crowds as it was designed to do from day one.

This site is getting worse by the DAY! Put it out of my misery, Dave.

Whippet says:

I call "bullshit" on this story. There is way more that our anonymous writer hasn't let on to, especially when any person in their right mind would have simply called the credit card company in the first instance. I'm not saying things didn't kick off and the police weren't involved, but there is no-doubt a huge section where (reading between the lines) our consumer got cold feet about the purchase, verbally kicked off and went behind the counter to retrieve the signature slip that fails to be mentioned. And per-lease, just because Thais speak Thai in Thailand doesn't mean he is a victim of a conspiracy.

"bob" says "this is something that expats have to get used to in LOS! you have no rights, you will always be in the wrong ,so before you sail away to your thai paradise bear that in mind."

Oh dear. If it was so terrible why are there so many farang here? We all have plenty of rights in this country if one is simply astute enough to behave. When in Rome...

Jackson Taylor says:

There is no official Apple Store in Thailand.

The official Apple Stores are located in USA, UK, Italy, Japan and Canada.

You're probably dealing with an authorized dealer, possibly even unauthorized since its Thailand.

Buying Apple products in Thailand is like trying to buy a genuine Gucci bag. Buyer Beware.

Hank says:

When a company agrees to sell something at a given price and the customer accepts that price, then the deal is done. If the price increases - for whatever reason - then the seller has to ask the buyer if he still wants the goods at the higher price. If he doesn't, then the company has to refund the customer's money. It is of absolutely no concern to the buyer whether the mistake was an "honest" one or not.

This might simply be a tactic on the part of the seller to appear to have the best price and then to jack up the price after the goods have been paid for.

Such a thing has happened to me before in Thailand. I had several pictures framed and I was quoted a total price - which was the result of several component prices for each individual picture. In the end, we agreed the final, total price for framing all of the pictures. When I went to pick up the pictures, the shop pointed out to me that they had made an error in their calculations. I told them that we had agreed the total price for framing all of the pictures and that I was not interested in how they arrived at that total or whether they had made a calculation error. But since they had my pictures hostage, I had no choice but to pay. I'm SURE it was a scam and I wasn't happy about it. The result is that I'll never go back to that shop again.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand: Suppose that the customer hadn't paid in advance but had agreed to pay 188,000 baht upon delivery of the computer to his home. Further assume that, as agreed, the store delivered the computer to the customer, whereupon the customer took delivery and then said "Sorry, but I miscalculated how much I could afford to pay for the computer and I'm going to pay 12,000 baht less. And there's nothing you can do because you've just handed the computer over to me, sucker!" Would any of you find this acceptable? Then why should it be acceptable for the store to do essentially the same thing?

As for the customer reaching over and taking the signed credit card receipt: Although this was not necessary (because the transaction could have been canceled with the credit card company), do note that this was done AFTER the company had made it clear that it was looking to scam the customer - not BEFORE.

In conclusion, if I were the customer in this case, I would be looking to press charges against the store and its staff for assault and making false statements to the police. (For which video evidence exists.) And if I were unable to get satisfaction through the police, I would pay some motorcycle taxi guys to beat the crap out of that saleslady. (Assuming I didn't want to actually do it myself.) In fact, it might not be a bad idea for ME to do it as nobody would suspect me. Ha!

somchai says:

what is LOS?

S & W says:

We kind of have an interesting topic here with some bright input from people like Dicer, but guess what some idiots just want to have "Stick, David, and Galt" 'WWE fight'. The guy in the story made mistakes, no doubt, and running away with he merchant receipt is a very stupid thing to do indeed. But then, I sometimes freak out here too, it is the probably the built up stress dealing with Thais day by day. The longer you live here, the more you are familiar with their culture, the more you see with how much contempt they treat you because they think you are just another farang idiot. Sure, people who know you are nice and occasionally new staff you have to deal with. When I have a bad day, I usually dress a bit more formal and guess what: Everybody seems to understand what I say and I get treated much better. But this even true for the Thais themselves, that's probably why they dress up for shopping. Dicer is so right when he says that you have to distinguish yourself from the average 'WWE farang'. It is very unfortunate really, because I love to wear jeans and Tshirt and not shave for days.

bay driver says:

Always pay for your purchases in Thailand by credit card, if you have a problem call your card company and cancel the transaction.

fbuom says:

Somchai,

Let me try to be first,

LOS = Land Of Smiles.

fbuom

Pop Wuping says:

If you are going spend that much money on Mac gear go to Hong Kong. The money and hassle you will save will pay for the ticket.

Shakira says:

I used to manage retail outlets and it sounds like the sales woman at this Siam store, or her colleague, made a mistake with the price or tax. Sounds like it was an honest mistake but she tried to proceed without explaining or apologising (typically Thai). The guy over-reacted and deserved his experience. As an aside, if you want to buy electronic products at a similar price as Thailand, try Kuala Lumpur. Malaysian's speak better English and aren't as money-driven as Chinese Singaporeans. So they are better to deal with than Thais who speak less English which is a big factor if you have problems later. I bought a mac iBook from Malaysia, had a glitch and returned it to the Apple dealer there. It was fixed and back to me in two days and no problems since.

Grunt says:

The Stickman vs. Mango Sauce vs. NotStickman "brawl" was a not-so-brilliantly orchestrated WWF spectacle. Mostly designed to rally the expat troops in the face of the google onslaught.

Likewise, this entire puff peice is nothing more then canned debate geared towards allowing David's alter ego, little miss dicer and her nom de plumes, to spew faux advice.

Oh so smart, so witty, so entertaining...

And so full of it.

Shut Mango Sauce down David before what little remaining credibility evaporates.
I prefer good memories to ongoing suffering.

Anonymous says:

I paid for a new dining table and the store delivered a broken one.
My tuff luck.
NEVER EVER PRE-PAY IN THAILAND.
In fact, try to not buy ANYTHING at all.

Shop in Countries that appreciate the business.

Anonymous says:

I had bought my macbook while in the US and am now living in Bhutan. The nearest authorised apple center is in Thailand. I had sent the adapter to the one in Thailand with a friend but was refused service under warranty !

Anonymous says:

Ongoing problems with my Apple.
I didn't get attacked but I still have minor problems with my Mac and have tried everything suggested and nothing works.
As it's only 2 weeks old and had very little use i am hoping its nothing serious. Beginning to think I was sold a refurbished unit?
I live in Thailand where customer service goes from terrible to zero.
I suggest buying electronics in another Country.

k.dingdong says:

I don’t sympathise with the daft cunt. After all who is dim enough (apart from David) to buy an Apple.
When dealing with this kind of rip off I have always found the firm but fair technique works. Just last week it worked for me.
After bar fining a georgous slapper who promised me I could get inside her ‘all three ways’ for 1.5k I found myself in some short time room.
To my dismay I soon found that three ways meant
Me on top
Her on top
Doggy style
Once the hour was up I gave her just a third of the 1500Baht we had agreed on as I figured it was a third per hole.
Surprisingly she accepted this without much hassle so I figured she was a soft touch and maybe I could get away with a bit more.
In the end I came away with the Hello Kitti sticker of her mobile phone and the funky monkey hanging off her hand bad.
All this after getting her to puke up the 2 cokes I had bought her and making her wind my watch back an hour to give me back the time she had just wasted.

somchai says:

thanks fbuam,

that went right over my head...

Annie says:

the thai is very opportunist people, what they can, they will get from you..regardless, its right or wrong when it comes to money, they even sell their mother for money!

What its boiled down to is that lawlessness land of smile!

somchai says:

annie is correct... at central chidlom they're having a special sales on mothers.

needless to say, there's a long queue of motherfockers strectching all the way to the US embassy --- causing all sort of traffic jams...

i got myself a mother of 2, with the 2 daughters thrown in, because i was the first customer...

god bless, central, they know how to take care of customers...

it's going to be a fun night, keith summers wanted to come over and join me. but he'll be sorry, 'no white boys allowed'

rhys says:

grunt: get ova urself and move on if u dont like davids articles go somewhere else im sure the rest of us will not miss u and ur smartass comments...

how can u misunderstand that sonchai L=land O=of S=smiles...simple really, Keep up the good wrk david ur website makes wrk that much betta cheers!

Anonymous says:

I used a credit card at the Apple Store and the next week, my account was closed for fraud.
Sombody was attempting cash advanced with the account.
Hmmm.

brin says:

Without knowing whether the story is true or false and suggesting who was right or wrong, I can tell you this: I have been in the Apple Store at Siam (Copperwire) more than once and was completely put off by the attitude of the staff there. I don't know where they get their sales training, but I'm happy I bought my Macbook Pro at Uficon Panthip.

But then, just after I bought my Macbook Pro, I saw them for sale at Suvarnabhumi Duty Free for 68,500 baht. No that is not a typo...if you are in the market for a Mac, that's probably the best price I have seen in Asia.

antimacsiam says:

I will never buy a mac from that store and use every drop of energy to encourage other to do the same..let me give them a call now..fuckers

somchai says:

grunt,

just the first time i see the abbreviation used, and on the internet --- i'm not a regular on the board, so there are certain lingo i'm not familiar with --- and for some reason i kept thinking "los angeles????"

oh well...
______________________________________

what is interesting here is that a lot of people on this board simply just take the words of one man for truth --- and man who's simply a stranger on an internt board at that --- and have rather reactionary responses to the story, without keeping an open-mind to what the other side may have to say...

i'm not sayign the dude lied about anything, but a version of what one man sees (a man with vested interests) is ALWAYS different from what another see... it's not like David checked the story out with the apple people at siam discovery...

so why don't we keep an open-mind and just go

"hmm... interesting, i would need complete information before i judge..."

after all, i believe everyone here have had the privilege of at least 12 years of schooling... so why don't we use that to our benefits?

ajarn farang says:

if the report is accurate, it is bang out of order.

no way should a customer be assaulted by a shop assistant; no way should bystanders get involved and neither should anybody give false testimonies to the police.

this is a good example of the shameful dishonesty which permeates thai culture and is accepted as such.

if the staff made a mistake with the price, the customer has every right to change his mind about the purchase, as the commitment to the transaction is based on an agreement to buy at the stated price, not to purchase regardless of what price the vendors choose to charge.

thirld world antics.

random farang says:

Are these the people?
http://www.maccenter.co.th/index.html
Maybe the people could email them and ask?
Can they post the video online?
I would have cancelled it via the credit company once it was in dispute.

Prufrock says:

k.dingdong finally, someone has the balls to back-charge a lazy whore

fuckin' eh man. . . . that essential "meeting of the minds" just did not occur. So cash back for fuckin' shure.

Some will even buy the argument that you'd already paid her fine and the ST room.

. . . . . after getting her to puke up the 2 cokes I had bought her and making her wind my watch back an hour to give me back the time she had just wasted.

hilarious

Me says:

Jimmyboy says:

Oh dear oh dear not getting your eyes ripped out of their sockets again followed by a swift beating from women. Talok Jeroen whatever your name is, I thought getting mugged in Pantip then promptly telling everyone on a chatroom about it, followed by being mugged and your laptop being taxed would be enough for you to stop being a gonk, Clearly not it seems, Some never learn do they???

hahahahahaha

after we deleted you from Bangkok Chat so long ago, u are still obsessed with stories we make up there??? this is priceless... aint got anything to do? :-P

Mr Thaksin, BKKchat.org says:

Kipling : " Half child half Devil"

you do anything in LOS's apart from chase a few boxes your a complete wonker.
its a place of pleasure not to be taken seriously in any form what so ever.

Still great little boxes though

Thaxo.

PS. yooooooo Dicer,
Fancy a couple shandy's one night down west london way ?
I can provide the oversea's students.

BigWilly says:

why is it that when some poor falang is given abuse by a psychotic thai there are always falang pricks on msg boards who side with the thai.

ajarn farang says:

somchai - where are you going to get impartial witnesses from?

zpjet says:

okay the headline is MISLEADING.

THIS is THE Apple Store:

http://www.apple.com/retail/

the story happened in one of the stores in a mall which sell Apple Computers.

Prufrock says:

BigWilly posts: why is it that when some poor falang is given abuse by a psychotic thai there are always falang pricks on msg boards who side with the thai". . . . . . Well said !!

AND ISN'T IT JUST FUCKING TOO AMAZING FOR WORDS?

Distinguished expat author and Thailand watcher, Hugh Watson in his astoundingly perceptive, Suam Smiles: Secrets of the Thais, touches on this very problem.

Watson calls this "Lord Jimming"

After a thorough reading of Hugh Watson's book and Steve Latex's "Private Dancer" the romantically inclined adventure-tourist is well-armed against all forms of local exclusionary ritual as practiced by the locals.

Hmmmmn, I, um, seam to have spelled "Siam" wrong and I've lost my rubber somewhere and I . . . blah, blah blah blah ;-)

Prufrock

Carniphage says:

What a load of crap.

THERE are NO APPLE STORES in BANKOK.

US. UK. France. Japan. Canada
That's it.

Mr Thaksin, BKKchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers.

The Subject of Apple is not a load of Crap!!!

I shagged an Apple once, dark skinned, no Nose, but great little knockers.

Thaxo.

somchai says:

ajarn farang,

you can't get one on this board.

that's why i suggested to reserve judgement until one has complete information.

and if complete info can't be attained, then one just have to shrug one's shoulders and go 'oh well... moving on'

otherwise, all you have is ignorant, sterotypical, cliched, knee-jerked, reactionary comments that only lead to more hatred and resentment

why do you think there's so much racism on this board?

--- but then again, that's what make this mangosauce fun...

Dufie the vacuum-poofter says:

"This was a wake up call for me and since then I treat the Thais like dangerous children, especially the ones from the lower echelon"
Du-Huh! That's right, fer shure.

"What Thais hate more than being fired is BEING SCOLDED BY ANYONE INCLUDING A BOSS. Well, dangerous children do not like to have fingers pointed at them and being told they are naughty"
Yeah, Baby! Thasssssss Right!

"But since they had my pictures hostage, I had no choice but to pay."
And so: YOUR ADVICE-GIVING PRIVELIGES ARE REVOKED FOR THE NEXT 30 YEARS!!!

"When I have a bad day, I usually dress a bit more formal and guess what: Everybody seems to understand what I say and I get treated much better. But this even true for the Thais themselves, that's probably why they dress up for shopping."
Thass the only advice worth spit in this whole thread. Because: The guy has a fuckwit mentality when things do not go his way, and he looks down on jundies in a nation of jundies, and hasn't the presence of mind or 3 O'clock courage to handle a penis-envying bitch in what should have been a slam-dunk situation. When you operate in the day-to-day with these handicaps, you must wear the finest attire to get the world thinking you are worth the trouble. All the rest is tripe.

The lawyer is a good idea. I have likewise set a retainer with a BKK attorney. Since it is clearly a smart thing to do, there is no way our receipt-snatcher will choose to do so.

When in Rome....Take a fucking bath. You smell like sticky shit.

Wankers!!!

Love to hear joke says:

"Shop in Hong Kong or Singapore if you want to be treated fairly."

Yeah, right. I've worked as rep for Hong Kong authority for several years. Reported so many cases of scam in HK. The only suggestion from them was not to buy electronic things in HK!

ajarn farang says:

i am in agreement with you somchai.

however, is it not generally true that in thai culture the desire to win at all costs and thereby not lose face can sometimes override obligations to tell the truth?

where i come from, this generally would not happen (although things are changing everywhere in the world). this sense of "fair play" and the principle of "fighting fair" are very important.

but i don't want to generalise too much (even though it is unavoidable); consider for example those witnesses who testified against the police officer who murdered the young english couple in kanchanaburi, despite the possible dangers. these people are true patriots, people of conscience, and are deserving of our thanks.

Mr Thaksin, BKKchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers.

on another more important subject, who killed bkkchat.org ?????

Thaxo.

PS. l feel homeless.

sadakoinbkk says:

Id say Tako the " Ive never been to Thailand , not reflecting BKK as a whole atall fuxxin bellends united crew " that spend 7 . 8 hrs a day / night average saying " Hi how are you , Im fine thanks , you ? " to eachother repeatedly when theyve never even met for fuxx sake or been to the coast of the US never mind Thailand or any other country for that matter . Anyways plenty of ways around it , just go there under different IDs if you like I go with 15 now , dunno why I bother to be honest its proper gay ......anyways Talok I knew that was you by the reply . Seriously Timmy , why didnt u just hit them with the little baby chicken wing ? See u next month .........

Mr Thaksin, BKKchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers.

cheers for info Sada,
I can't get passed the registration bit, keeps asking me to put in the correct security number, which of course l do.

They must have it in for old Thaxo, "them be all queer's" as my Oldman always says.

Thaxo.

poolcleaner says:

Only weird people buy Macs so you can't be too surprised if some opportunist wants to take advantage.

188,000 baht...hehe you can buy a house for that!

Prufrock says:

somchai, out of the clear blue, begs this question: "why do you think there's so much racism on this board?"

somchai, I see less racism on this board in one month than I see in Bangkok during my comings and goings in a day.

There's actually a minuscule quantity of racism on this board, somchai. But you for some reason, seem intent on building the case that it is rampant.

Would you care to share your motivations for making such a claim?

Most Western visitors to this country come from societies where criticism is an acceptable means of social participation. They are critical of their own societies as well. They are also praising many aspects of their adopted Thai society and some openly wonder why these aspects cannot be adopted in the West.

Are criticisms of the obvious, racist?

For example if I opine, in spite of what the owners of these machines feel, that motorcycles (bicycles) should be kept OFF the footpath, is this racist?.
Or will this be defended as part of Thai culture will I be told I don't understand the "Thai way"?

When I submit that inter-class discrimination, exploitation and mis-treatment among Thailand's myriad racial groups (17 at least) is based primarily on skin color, and access to capital and opportunity, is that racist?

When I posit that, formerly, where a wealthy family or victorious leader would "tam boon" for his good fortune by building a temple; they would now throw up yet another useless shopping plaza as a paean to the popularly sanctified civil religion of conspicuous consumption. Is that racist?

And when I offer that this whole "civil religion" thing is underwritten by the backs of the poor, a proper education system and proper infrastructure & public works,
is this a racist comment?

When I suggest that Thailand, as Asia's only net producer of food, is not really a poor country at all but rather suffers from too narrow a hierarchy of real wealth-distribution and access to opportunity. That sustainable living is well within the grasp of most Thais but sustainable GREED is not and should not be, is that racism?

When I ask you to address these issues squarely and not to turn these queries back (since their application to Western society is under constant scrutiny anyway, is that racism?

Please address these issues before you say that the posters to this board are racist and imply that the prime directive of their residency here is racism.

somchai says:

prufock,

i repeated myself over and over again that constructive criticism is welcomed and encouraged, but not racism --- why do you keep failing to understand that?

_______________________________________________________________________

i just had 2 constructive discourses with ajarn farang.

Look at my exchange with David in the ‘actress bend over thread’. We started at odd, both suspecting each other of foulness, but then we fleshed out our arguments and came to an understanding.

Differing opinions, different culture, mutual respect – all constructive.

Voila! Ain’t life grand?

Why aren’t you capable of that?

there are many on this thread who offer valued criticism about the thai service industry and thai business practice---- some of which i disagree with, some I agree with --- but I see no racism in their comments.... so i have no problem with any of them...

__________________________________________________________________________

you don't experience racism on this board, because this board is populated by farang -- and you are one --- well, no shit.

you experience racism in thailand because you're a farang in thailand --- well, no shit.

i don't experience racism in the States when i hung out with Asians --- well, no shit.

i experience racism in the States on the streets, harassed by cops and treatments in various places because i'm asian surrounded by americans --- well, no shit

so what's your point here?

racism is everywhere
_______________________________________

you want to see racism on mangosauce, just take a look at annie's posts.

and that's just from one person in this one thread. just on this one thread...

and one racist is already one too many, don't you agree?

The amount of “taking-the-piss” and “condescending” comments about Thailand and thai people on here are, of course, to the victims of these verbal abuses, sound very racist.

And when I take the piss back to prove a point, you all get pissy about it and proved my point.

Hypocrisy is a very fine thing…

________________________________________

the examples you give above seem constructive, so why weren't you capable of that in your earlier discourse with me?

you’ll find that I would agree with most of your comments about Thailand. Just like I agreed with ajarn farang.

Where we differ is where I cautioned to look at things from different perspectives.

You only see things as a farang living here. Why not also try to see things from a thai’s perspective? Surely, a farang can’t be right all the time, nor a thai can be wrong all the time.

Many times you’ll learn that it’s not RIGHT vs WRONG, but just cultural differences in a world populated by 6 billion people. And that not everything has to be done the white man’s way.

Plus, I’m also cautioning that what you lot are accusing Thailand of, is nothing unique to Thailand. You’ll find a lot of the same if not worse in your own country. After all, we are all people with virtues and flaws.

I’m here as a voice from another perspective, and I’m able to have good discourses with a few people.

_____________________________________________________________________

The reason you and I are having a problem, is because you love to dish out criticisms, but when criticisms are made back at you, you get you get all emotional, sensitive and pissy…

Furthermore, in whatever issue you have with keith summers, you keep saying that I am him – which of course caused prejudices in your thinking and rendered you into a whino, not capable of discoursing – so that’s an issue you have to deal with on your own, I’ve got nothing to do with it….

But these are the 2 reasons why we have failure to communicate…

I myself repeatedly say on here that there are so many fucked up things that the thai govt does and how the thai people think --- so there’s self-criticism for you

so yes, racism exists on this board, but so are mutual constructive criticisms.

By the way, you’re not ignoring me anymore?

Prufrock says:

You just spoke to yourself for half a meter of post without directly addressing ONE of my issues.
Your reasons for concocting the racist issue here are as plain the fact that your reasoning skills were just not solid enough to cut it "out there" were they.
But they're sort of improving.
And in no small way as a result of your participation on this board.

But that third rate Soc. Sci. prof back in Ozz or wherever you were should be strung up for feeding you all that relativist dross you spout as wisdom.
Your language skills are definitely superior to Keith Summers and he, admittedly just doesn't have the ear it would to take to post as a somchai.

Someone else might though.
But in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter much. Except in terms of you being able to hold on to this job ;-)

somchai says:

prufock, baby, darling, honey, precious... my sweet little white angel -- have a lollipop, take a seat and read carefully.

i have no issue with those issues of yours, so why would i address them?

why? tell me, honey buns, why?

what is wrong with you, baby? has the ghost of Keith Summers rendered you senseless?

I tried to be civil in my response to you, but that's like fucking missionary position with a slutty gimp in black latex -- you've seen so many dicks you have calluses in you cunt ---

honey bunny, pay attention, the only issue i'm addressing is your 'racism' question.

and so I pointed out at the racist posts on this board, i.e, Annie's. And that's only one poster on one thread.

are you following, baby?

so that should rest the issue of racism already. as evidence has been shown that there is racism on this board.

now, now, prufock... don't suck too hard on the lollipop, you might chip a tooth or something --- just work it in and out, nice and slow, roll your tongue around it... yes, that's right, baby... you're doing good.

now, moving on..

See, Prufock old bird, no one needs to concoct the racist issue, just read the posts, baby!!!

What else is there? YOu have your opinion about Thailand, that's great. Good for you. What do you want? A medal?

Maybe i'll let you toss some salad later, but i have no medal for you, my pretty... plus you already look good in that black overall latex.

I don't address your issues, as I don't address the issues of most people on this board. Why? Because I don't have any issue with any of it.

so prufock, my sweet, dont' make me stop being a nice guy now... or i'll have a fist up your bum and have you crying:

"oh, i'm not talking to you anymore somchai... i'm gonna ignore you for the thousandth time, you bad bad thai boy............. oh wait, Somchai... I...er... I... I just can't quit you!!!"

Not again says:

Prufrock always says he's going to ignore you and never does. He is like a pimple that won't go away. Like a turd you can't seem to flush.

Mr Thaksin, bangkokchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers.

I must admit, Somchai is a complete tosser even by my wonking standards.

I think he must be Welsh with a Thai bf called Somchai.

Rights for wonkers.

Thaxo

Zap Branigan says:

well, well. this phoney tale of mac assault is a lie afterall. wow Dave, your site starting to suck !

ozricdan says:

When i bought a portable cd player and got it home it worked well until i moved it to another area of the room because when you turned it on its side the CD player just stopped. So i went to the shop again and the lady said i could only change it so i asked if i could test the next one which she allowed but hey presto it had the same problem.
So i stood firm and asked for my money back. Now i had never seen such stern faces it was as if i was threatening their livelihood but an even sterner no no no you buy already you no take back.
Now having a little experience with the Thais i knew that putting your foot down with a firm hand gets you nowhere and calmness is usually the key with much persistence.
Do you have different one which I could try I asked, no no no you buy that one cannot cannot. At this point I wondered if I had been met her before somewhere in Bangkok and had crossed her path there but I was sure I hadn’t so I said again that I wanted my money back and that was it no talk no chit-chat just give me my money thank you.
No no no you go now but I replied that even she saw the other player was not working properly. Now she had walked off to bring back some younger guy who also said you can exchange. Now I was beginning to get pissed off and I knew I was in the right, well I would have been in the UK but here it’s totally different.
They would not back down even when I brought over the Australian bar owner from across the street. He even said forget about and just live it as an experience but I now wanted blood as I this was just stupid and then I did something I wish I hadn’t. I told her I was going to get the tourist police but guess what she seemed to be on good terms with them and when they arrived it was ‘mit mit, oh he man farang so rude come here make trouble for me and my family. Now as well as been angry I was now shocked at where this could lead and that I did not want. After the tourist police man called mit checked my passport and thank god I had not overstayed even 1 day he told me that I had been offered exchange it was then I realized that resistance was futile and I should just leave it.
Everyday for the next few weeks that I passed her shop I gave her some filthy looks but this was my only respite afterwards I set light to the dammed thing outside my apartment where many people gathered and we all got drunk.

MAI PEN RAI……………………

somchai says:

mr. thaksin, darling...

would you like to back up your accusation?

wonker, indeed, bloody wonker.... i don't have a boyfriend, prufock is my one and only bitch... but you can also be my bitch --- wanna have a go at it?

local says:

Galt call the APPLE STORE? Then believes the "THAI" version of the event, then goes on to speculate, blaming the Farang.
You'd have to be a complete fool to take the word of a Thai.
I've been around Thailand a long, long time and would never, ever believe anything a Thai says. Truth means nothing, zilch, nada, zero to a Thai.
I've seen how the Thai operate and the story sounds 100% TRUE.

somchai says:

local

you've been around thailand for a long, long time....

so does that mean you enjoy living with lies?

you must have a very miserable life... i feel sorry for you.

want a hug?

i promise prufock won't get jealous..

Wombat says:

Sigh. There were warnings as far back as 20 years ago against buying electrical equipment in Thailand. I have read nothing since then to counteract those warnings. Same with jewelry. Good for cheap clothes though. Can't help wondering what the wealthy high class tourists are going to spend their money on.

I hope this isn't a racist comment Somchai. I wouldn't want to upset your sensibilities as you seem to interpret criticism as racism.

Mr Thaksin, bangkokchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers.

seeeeeeeee!!!! told you he was a Welsh puff.

Thaxo.

sadakoinbkk says:

Timmy darling , why didnt you fight them off with that little baby wing ?

Jim says:

Remind me never to buy an Apple compter in Thailand!

He changed his mind when the price changed, there is nothing wrong with that. There was no need to assault the man for it.

Asking for a manager in Thailand ... lol

Prufrock says:

@ Wombat:

"Can't help wondering what the wealthy high class tourists are going to spend their money on."

The men buy pussy; their wives boast about how they let him have one for a night or who they were able to control him during a two seek temple tour.

I love to watch the "silverbellies" panic the first time their fat outta shap ATM of 20 years gets the look from a 23 year old Thai chick on the BTS!
Not even a hooker in some cases.

Priceless.

APPLE Purchaser, almost says:

Yes. True story.
I was assaulted by the crazed APPLE Saleslady.
She must of spent that commission already is all I can think of??

I was getting a load of BS about not being able to refund my credit card, had to accept the computer at the new price!
"Cannot refund. You have to take the computer".
Yes, that is what she told me. Bizzare as it sounds.

I'm thinking, No way am I going thru with this deal and I don't want this person having my credit card information. I casually took my signed credit card receipt off the countertop and headed for the door. No big scene was happening.
Now she went beserk and physically tried to keep me from leaving the store. I shrugged her off like an NFL running back but she was quick and kept blocking. Very strange experience.
I am sure the patrons of the Discovery Mall must have thought I was a thief or criminal as she yelled and pulled on me, jumping in front of me, shoving me.
I did make it all the way to the street, this woman grabbing me, screaming accusations at me the entire time. What she was saying, I don't know but the gathering crowd was getting agitated at me, starting to turn into a mob. Several taxis were prevented from dispatching me from this scene by her and accumulating security staff and Apple employees. A real twilite zone episode, believe me. I was being held and threatened by several security guards now, some bystanders, a group of motorcycle taxi guys, and this woman screaming into my face demanding my signed receipt, so I took it from my pocket and ate it( much to the delight of the 50 to 100 onlookers)Funny Farang.
She was so livid that I thought she might reach down my throat to retrieve the paperwork.
Finally the Police show up and I thought, great, it would be over but now the Saleslady is accuseing me of assaulting her!
I ended up at the Patuwan Police Station, the rude Police saying they can hold me for 48 hours with zero charges. She was trying to shake me down for some Baht!
Lucky for me, I keep the US Embassy and Am Citizens Services number on my Cell Phone.
They were very helpfull with presenting my side with a translator.
She re-thought the position when she realized I had good legal representation, I'd be getting the security video from the shopping center and was going foward with presssing charges against the Store.

The Credit Card Co. reversed the charges.

She is still employed there. Imagine that.

Johnny Tokyo says:

Good one "Almost Apple"

You've just convinced me.

Being the Discovery Channel kind of guy that I am, I'm gonna borrow Mr. Prufrock's gold Daytona, Ms. Om Sin's ten baht amulet and use some of my own vulgar "furniture" for this.
I'll slip into a beige linen suit, black voile shirt, mustard yellow Zegna tie and pay a visit to this freaky Diam Discovery Apun Store.
BTW, I know this pig-fart bitch by sight. She nearly shit herself three years agowhen I showed up there with an Ipod after I'd got her to blow an hour teaching me all about them.

But "I'd got it in Manhattan for 10500 baht, it was cheaper" was my response as she pumped herself into a complete rage.

I saved 4000 baht, shark fin breath, I "tam thurakit", not "tam boon".
Blow me.

(Greedy guts scumbag also responds splendidly to a frequently exposed roll of 1000's in a solid gold, Yawarat, Year of the Dog money clip.
The maid has to follow the bitch with a rag, mopping up the fucking drool ;-)
This time, I'll first get her to wet her pants over the "furniture." (I've got a Daimler keychain as well. Fuck, maybe I've got time to get a fetching gold tooth cap made as well :-)

After I've run her over ALL the latest Appun toys in the shopand she's had to slip into the back to change her heavily soiled panty-liner a coupla times, I'll do the old Geez, ya don't take dahlers? schtick for an exit routine.

Another variation might be to have Om Sin who's as dark as they come, come in at the end and with that big grin of hers tell me we have to get over to Chinatown before the gold shops close.

Almost Appun. Is this cruel? Is this unfair? Am I committing a crime if I walk out in the middle of her heart attack? Am I being culturally insensitive? Should I tip her?

I've done this with "gem dealers" and it's hard-core fun.
Next best thing to a "cucumber sandwich" lunch at the, um, Copacabana.

Senja the pics :-)

SKO says:

Ummm. Seems that ‘MangoSquashDavid’ and ‘Stickman’ are allies in a clandestine war waged against Mac Attack. Well, at least according to our weird little friend, Keith Summers.

Anyone who visited his blog this week may have read his article regarding Mac Attack, and the injustice they have suffered because of David and Stick’s immoral, slanderous, ill researched postings. Let’s look at that in a moment.

But first; this week Summers initially reminds us of an old Wendy’s advertising campaign, with the message ‘where is the beef?’ suggesting to consumers to question the actual beef content in other burger joints. He is using a metaphor here to suggest that Stickman’s site ‘contains no beef’ with, he insinuates, irrelevant and off topic content. If only poor old Keith considered this notion before he dedicates half of his Thai life blog to the finer points of LED lighting. Gripping stuff.

Any of you newbie’s who have not yet set foot in the land of smiles may benefit tremendously from this new knowledge you have; remember kids, as you are stepping off the plane at the new airport, this crucial information; ‘LED lighting runs relatively cool when compared to large scale commercial halogen lighting.’ As you lie in bed at the nana hotel on your first morning, your newly christened Isarn munchkin may likely engage you in a little pillow talk, Thai style. Should you find yourself with no answer to her insistence on bringing her sister over for a little fun, you can always change the subject by discussing ‘the new Lamina Ceramics Titan RGB LED Light Engine’.

Anyway. This Mac Attack stuff. What on earth is wrong with you David? Don’t you know that publishing reader’s emails without researching the background may unfairly cause damage to this innocent little shop? I mean come on…. A westerner getting ripped off in Thailand? Whoever heard of a westerner getting ripped of in the good old Land Of Smiles? Surely you need to research such accusations before submitting on-line? Such a unique concept should be carefully checked out. Westerners never get ripped off here! Never!

Personally, I agree with summer’s point of view: you should not publish slanderous information regarding any Thai business vender, until the full facts have been given. Not to put a finer point on it, but you should wait until you find out ‘there side of the story’. Summers, bless him, went to the extraordinary lengths of doing exactly that and calling Mac Attack to ascertain there side of the story. It seems that the actual events of this sorry episode are more or less as the original customer suggested. Thanks for clearing this up Summers.

By the way – I have taken on board Summers suggestions of obtaining the facts and have followed his advice to the latter. Today, I called a food vender at Royal Garden Plaza to find out why exactly she is potentialy killing her customers with food poisoning, as published on Summers website. If you missed this article, it is right underneath the article about publishing slanderous information on the web. That’s right folks; Summers, after riding up on his white horse like a knight in shining armor and defending potentially harmful accusations directed at Mac Attack, then goes on to accuse a food vender of spreading disease in her shop. The fact that a photograph of the vender was discreetly taken and not so discreetly published on-line without her permission, supported by comforting words such as ‘Avian Bird Flu’ and ‘massive number of people affected’ inspired me to get the true facts. So, following Summers advice I decided to call her.

It turns out her name is ‘Lek’. I asked her about the incident, and she gave me her version of events;

Me: Hi. I have just read a rather alarming report on notstickmanbangkok.com regarding a situation last week, in which you touched a fork with your hands. Do you care to comment?

Lek: Ah, I remember. I touch fork every day – that’s my job!! I am a waitress for my Mums shop and my job is to clean the dishes and cutlery, and then place them in the tray ready for use.

Me: So if this is such a mundane, routine procedure, how come you remember the occasion?

Lek: Because small man have lots of sweat, smell velly bad jing jing, he sit down, ask me how old I am and if me virgin. I tell him me no virgin I am 18 me have boyfriend. He ask me if I have young sister. I no like this man. He bad man. I remember I pick up a fork and put it in tray, and he take my photo. I ask him why, he tell me for his collection I not know what he mean. He ask me if I have any friend virgin. I scary and call my pop. Pop come and tell man to leave, He stand up and his trouser around his feet- his little brother wake up can not believe!! What he do when he look at me? You think he play little brother?

And so, there you have it. Once quick call and the true version of events are cleared up. Lesson to be learn here folks; if you ever hear vicious rumors of waitresses touching cutlery – don’t believe it until you check out the facts first.

Disgusted by Thais attitude says:

Ripping off the Farang is a National pastime.

I guess there is no end to how low a Thai will go when dealing with Farang.

What a fucking piece of shit that Apple manager is.

The Farang customer spends 188,000 bt in the outlet, gets abused by the staff, false accusations reported by his employee, ends up at a Thai Police Station.
Then the Apple manager comes to the rescue, graciously tells the customer he will drop the charges if he apologizes?????
Now offers a refund,(with a fee of course, paid by the farang)...
The galling part of the response is when he says: "My favourite part is where Mr J "physically ATE the receipt and purchase order."

[That was actually MY remark and I liked that part of the story because it demonstrated Mr J’s dogged defiance in the face of overwhelming odds - David]

Gee, the customer has been terrorized and abused by the staff, lied to, manhandled by the mall security, local police, falsley accused of assault, gets hauled to a Police Station, booked for assault.
His only option is to physically swallow his signed paperwork... and this piece of shit APPLE manager says that is his favorite part of the event!!

This same company runs the APPLE CENTER on THONG LOR.
AVOID and spread the word.

ron says:

This guy is an idiot. the type that gives farangs a bad image with the Thais. I don't think he behaved properly at all. He has more money than brains. I saw so many mistakes in his reasoning, and many of the replies, that I wonder if these guys don't need to move some place where english is the main language. Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean that they are ripping you off. Everytime I have gotten that attitude, after I closed my mouth and opened my mind I found that it was I who was over reacting. Try that once in awhile. Either that or take your miserable ass home and plague some other city. In fact, my gut instinct is that this guy didn't intend to keep the goods at all, he was just trying to impress the sales lady. He wan't beater either, and to pander to this with your headline is cheap sensationalism at its worse.

Anonymous says:

"In fact, my gut instinct is that this guy didn't intend to keep the goods at all, he was just trying to impress the sales lady."

Ron.

The computer was already paid for, the customer waiting for delivery at home... THEN the price changed....

Ron says:

Yes I read that, however, I am not sure that means that he was ready to accept it. He seems to think that it wasn't a done deal. Where do you get that a call to the cc co. and a request to cancel a charge is all it takes to cancel a deal. I don't think it works quite that way. You can dispute a charge yes, but just cancel, don't think so. Try that with an airline ticket for example.
Anyway, my point was that this whole deal looks fishy from his side. He was looking for an escape and siezed on the mistake made.
I stand by my assertation that he completly over reacted. In my experience this is generally a cover behavior for another motive.

Anonymous says:

"Yes I read that, however, I am not sure that means that he was ready to accept it".

Ron.
Do you honestly think he spent 188,000bt on a new computer, trying to impress a salesclerk?
I've been in there, not a cute one in the bunch.
A guy with that kind of money to throw around surly has no troulbe getting some pussy.

If you go back and read the report, he bought a high end Apple system, PAID, was waiting for the delivery.
The deal was done.

Are you speculating he would not have taken delivery, even if the lady didn't rise the price ?
Who does that?
Why would you think that?
That WOULD be strange but that is not what happened...

The problem started when the store held his goods, refusing to deliver.
The price magically jumped an extra 12,000!...after the sale was complete.
What are the chances it was just another Thai scam?

I guess the question needs to be asked.
Would you have just handed over an extra 12,000bt to that saleslady or would you want to review the deal?

ajarn farang says:

"He was looking for an escape and siezed on the mistake made."

ron mate, you're not making much sense. siezed on what mistake? sou