September 1 2004

American woman wants a date in Thailand

Today's mission is to find a suitable partner for a 48 year old American woman who wants to relocate to the remote north of Thailand - but it's not going to be easy.

Hello, my name is Rossa and I live in the USA. I have just come back from a trip to Thailand and I enjoyed my visit there so much that I decided to purchase a home in Pha Hin. I am 48 years old and a professional woman with many businesses in the US and soon to start a few businesses in Thailand. I am single with no children.

I am seeking to meet a professional gentleman for dating and a possible long term relationship when I return to Thailand. I do not speak Thai so I would be seeking someone who also speaks English. Do you know of any excellent personal sites where I might find quality gentlemen interested in meeting quality US females for a long term relationship? If so, I would appreciate any help you can give.

I am very attractive and in good shape. I was born in Italy but raised in the USA. I hold a masters degree in English. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Rossa.

Hi Rossa. I'm afraid that Thailand is rather short on excellent personal sites where you might find quality gentlemen interested in meeting quality US females. The specialist Thai introduction agencies are only interested in matching financially-motivated local women with naive foreign men.

I'll do what I can to help but I have to warn you that your chances of success are slim. Even in the first flush of youth, single Western women living in Thailand often remain single. It's not that there's anything wrong with them - it's just that every eligible Western man in Thailand is constantly bombarded with charming invitations from beautiful young Thai girls. Consequently, ordinary middle-aged Western men are as unobtainable as movie stars.

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The only Western women who seem to be truly happy in Thailand are the lesbians and those who have developed unconventional tastes (See Three faces of female sex-tourism in Thailand).

I presume that neither of these options appeals to you so I've decided to give you a hand in finding Mr Right. There must surely be one or two professional English-speaking men living in Northern Thailand who are fed up with the antics of Thai women. If so, please send me an email and I'll forward it to Rossa.

Meanwhile, Rossa, you could read this recent but now deleted article from the Wall Street Journal, entitled "Asia: heaven for men, hell for women."

It's a dream job - a high-level position in Bangkok with an interesting company and an expatriate's salary. A beautiful, company-subsidised apartment that takes up one floor of a luxury building. A maid, a car and a driver on call 24 hours a day.

But for Julie Sleva, a Canadian citizen who is an executive with French cosmetics firm L'Oreal, the dream becomes hollow when she leaves her office. Although young and attractive, Sleva lives the often lonely life of a Western female expat professional in a culture where men rule - a life with no serious relationships and few dates. "Outside of the office, it's tough," thirtysomething Sleva says.

For single Western men, Asia can be a paradise of exotic, beautiful women more than willing to pamper them and inflate their egos. The perks of an expat life - cheap maids, company-paid drivers and members-only clubs - relieve married couples of many of life's daily hassles, including the chores of child-rearing.

But for single Western caucasian women like Sleva, it's a different story. Accomplishments in the office are often overshadowed by solitary private lives, and even the most casual Saturday night date with a man is a distant memory. Many such women feel their chances of having relationships are negligible while they are in Asia.

For Sleva, whose marriage to a Canadian man ended seven years ago, it is a constant frustration. Although she's happy to date both Thai men and foreigners, she says "you never see Thai men with expat women, and expat men are either married, gay or have a young Thai girl hanging on to their arm. You sit in a car near Soi Nana [a popular night-time entertainment district] and you can't believe what walks out of that place - the ugliest, grossest men with beautiful Thai women. It's so easy for the Western man."

Sleva's experience is far from unusual. Many other expatriate women I meet agree with her.

Yet the subject is taboo. Beyond the fact that it is a deeply personal, often painful element of life for women such as Sleva, discussing it opens up a minefield of sexual and racial stereotypes.

In many cases, the stereotypes are accurate, but not always. Some Western men in Asia meet and marry smart or high-powered Asian women - or overseas-born Asian women who are far more interested in succeeding in their careers than in indulging their husband's every whim.

Some Western women are happy to be out of the dating game and in a world where they - like their workaholic male counterparts - can devote themselves to climbing the corporate ladder with more visibility than they might enjoy in the United States or Europe.

The difficulties of many single white women in Asia are so widespread that counsellors are dealing with it every day.

"It takes a toll," says Melanie Bryan, a psychologist in Hong Kong. Bryan's client base is telling: half of them are single Western women.

"People don't get a sense of self-worth from just one part of their lives," she notes. "Because a woman is a professional doesn't mean she lacks aspirations for a relationship as well, and quite often these aspirations have to be put on hold. I see women drink more. I definitely see them depressed. I had a new patient the other day who was just hammering away at herself. She felt washed-up at the age of 36."

Many of the women who agree with such views are willing to tell their stories only if their names aren't attached. Two women I meet, who have had various Asian postings for United Nations agencies, described their dual lives - great accomplishment and loneliness.

One of them, a US citizen, has given up hoping for a relationship or children, but the rewards of her work over more than a decade in Asia have made the sacrifices worthwhile. She wants to use her name, but says "this wouldn't go over well with the UN".

Another woman, an American who has worked in Asia for a consumer-products company for four years, says it didn't take her long to learn what awaited her. "Before they transferred me, my company sent me to Asia for a look-see," she says. "On the plane coming back I met a woman leaving Asia after eight years. After a few Jack Daniels, she told me, 'Honey, Asia is single-man heaven and single-woman hell'."

Forget dating, she says. "Most Western men are married, and if they're not married, they're playing around big time. And I don't look anything like those sweet little Thai women."

The loneliness is compounded by a lack of understanding in others. "Why do you not have a husband?" is a question taxi drivers, maids, shop assistants and even the most casual Asian acquaintances don't hesitate to throw at single women both Western and Asian.

"It certainly is difficult for a single Western career woman anywhere in Asia to have a fulfilling life," says David Bailey, a counsellor in Bangkok with Psychological Services International. "Most companies don't adequately prepare their executives for living overseas, and they assume they have their personal lives sorted out."

The contrast between the lives of single expat men and women in Asia is illustrated by Sleva's friend and co-executive, Martin Mirmand, who manages L'Oreal's luxury division. Like Sleva, Mirmand is young and attractive. But there the similarity ends. Mirmand, a 32-year-old Frenchman, says his expat existence is "very easy from a lifestyle point of view - the comforts of living, the opportunities to do things after work." "It's very easy to be a man in Thailand, that is for sure," he says.

By contrast, except for nights when she has a work function, Sleva's evenings are spent far removed from bars and nightclubs. She often stays home and eats a spicy Thai salad prepared by her maid.

Marisa Vidaurre, director of St John's Cathedral Counselling Services in Hong Kong, says Sleva's story is typical. "What they relate to me is that expat men are not interested in women who are going to be challenging," she says. "A lot more Asian women culturally find it easier to make men feel better about everything they do. It's hard for a man to resist when every word out of your mouth is a pearl of wisdom and every joke is funny."

So why don't these lonely women return to the West?

"Your career track can be quite rewarding in Asia," says Vidaurre. "When you go back, you are one among the many. It's harder to do special things."

Despite her loneliness, Sleva won't consider asking for a transfer back to Canada or the US. She still wants her satisfying job and to immerse herself in a new culture.

[Posted to Your Letters by David]

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Readers' comments

KK says:

My advice: Bring a "professional gentleman for dating and a possible long term relationship" with you.

If he turns out to be a sod or goes Thai pussy diving, dump him and bring another. Plenty of candidates out there if you caste your net a bit wider in the region.

September 13, 2004 9:47 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

Fascinating article.

But the best thing is that photo. Brutal on so many levels and hilarious for so many reasons.

Each sex to his/her own fantasy.

(...)

September 13, 2004 10:53 PM

SuperMan says:

To the high flying single white woman, dont expect to get hooked up with a high flying single faithful white man in LOS.
Lots of Indians, Africans and east europeans that love to stay in thailand very long time but short on finances ,might do you a quality trade in.
If you are really cute looking like as in jennifer aniston, get my email from David , I might change my ways.

September 14, 2004 4:21 PM

Check Six says:

I must be honest.

The first time I had a beautiful and submissive Asian girlfriend, I joyed in the simple pleasures of life. The loving smiles, the warm-hearted banter, the tender lovemaking, the thrill of her company... these touched and enraptured me beyond belief.

The second time I had a beautiful and submissive Asian girlfriend, I was stunned to find so many of the traits I enjoyed in the first, but with so much more variety in the lovemaking department. She taught me things I thought were impossible, and invited the most lascivious acts, all in the name of attempting to please me in every way. I did not know I could feel so sated, so at peace in my life, once my carnal, emotional and love needs were so well satisfied.

A couple of decades later, though, on about my fourth or so longish-term Asian girlfriend, I began to miss the American women of my youth. The sullen expressions of distaste. The spiteful accusations. The shrieking fits of depression, replete with tears. The long periods of uncomfortable silence. I missed the hostility, the constant need for humility in the presence of her grace, the steady drain on my strength, health, finances and patience. I missed them so. My soul cried out for the abuse, and I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin.

September 14, 2004 11:03 PM

Pat Paulsen says:

Ooooooohh, I've seen them; those cute attention getting babes from back home, accustomed to having their way(and then some), controlling and petulant with her guy...and he just realized what was walking hand in hand down on the beach wasn't a mirage, but the real thing, a free minded Thai woman with a western man. Behind sunglasses he follows their moves, and the kid looks like he's wilting, weighed down by a heavy backpack 'n chain. "Babes" next little move is a "need" for more lotion on her back, or perhaps to move on so he can stay focused and take his mind off of what he just saw. The threat is very real, and how many western women "work" what they DO have because of it? That is the most interesting act to watch by far. I don't wish any of 'em an empty life, but to take a page from their book..."living well is the best revenge."

September 15, 2004 12:13 PM

Greg says:

"living well is the best revenge."

It is sweet to throw off the yoke, and dangle it tauntingly at western women.

Occasionally I'll come across a western girl and say hello, and she'll put on airs. She musters up the great force of rejection, and her effort is pitiable. All I did was smile and say hello, and I get looked up and down like who the fuck am I to deign to introduce myself? Tourist girl doesn't know the value of her coin. That moment is sweet.

Seeing her dwelling in her hom nam (girls primping toilet) of importance, without a clue that her supply is not important to my demand. I love that revenge.

And the story moves on to the next chapter. Characters grow. Deepen. Revenge is dramatic. It requires plot to explain. Some deeper issues can only be alluded to. They are important too.

You know. Like the fire in the heart. Connection and passion. This is a magical profound world - it is not a dead world. Shit matters, even if we are stupid.

I hate Thai people. That is a statement stupidly lacking in humor. I don't yet hate women or western women.

Denial is fundamental. Death is not to beat in my heart this day. My girl is not to be a lying bitch this day. The phrase that ignorance is bliss is pessimistic until you do a stint in Thailand.

September 16, 2004 8:18 AM

Sandy says:

"I missed the hostility, the constant need for humility in the presence of her grace, the steady drain on my strength, health, finances and patience. I missed them so. My soul cried out for the abuse, and I must stop drinking bad gin. I must stop drinking bad gin..."

Check Six, thanx, and nice going, you're fucking hilarious!

"The phrase that ignorance is bliss is pessimistic until you do a stint in Thailand."

Greg, please..do you beat yourself up like this all the time? How many Thai girls have told you, "keet mak-mak!" ? I think what P Paulsen means is in the end treat yourself well, live a good life, begining at "home." A thousand pounds will be mysteriously lifted off your shoulders.

Ac-cen-tuate the positive and e-lim-minate the negative,
Latch on to the af-firmative, and don't mess with
Mr "in between."

Smooth sailing

Sandy

September 17, 2004 11:14 AM

Greg says:

Hi Sandy,

I recently saw my GF motosai away hugging a Thai man. Drove me a bit nuts with rage. Turns out it wasn't her.

I did things I regret, the above post being one of them.

September 17, 2004 12:54 PM

Greg says:

"Ac-cen-tuate the positive and e-lim-minate the negative,
Latch on to the af-firmative, and don't mess with
Mr "in between."

Good attitude. Not a balanced attitude though.

If I'm swimming in shit, I can visualize the shit as gold, or I can be discriminating and go have a shower. Which attitude is more positive?

September 17, 2004 1:01 PM

tonychang says:

." A thousand pounds will be mysteriously lifted off your shoulders."
...and possibly from your wallet.

September 17, 2004 7:56 PM

Sandy says:

"Drove me a bit nuts with rage. Turns out it wasn't her."

(!!!)

Turns out you are too tough on yourself.

Been down so long there's nowhere to go but up?
Pretend it WAS her and go from there...(only you know it was a halucination). It's easier assuming the worst in some tgf relationships, sometimes you can almost will it to happen. Self pity usually won't attract anything but more of the same; self deprecation does. That's my survival instinct kicking in. Have a good laugh at your expense. You wouldn't be here if you couldn't do it, right?

A guy dressed as Batman, standing on the third floor ledge at the British House of Commons(fighting for "responsible" fathers rights...yikes!) How funny is that?

September 17, 2004 11:24 PM

Greg says:

"Been down so long there's nowhere to go but up?"

Ever see the 1940's movie shorts "Our Gang" with Spanky et al? You said a mouthful!

My hard luck tale is so bad it is genuinely funny. I won't weep it all over the forum though.
In any case, up is already pulling me, and the opressive ghosts of stress and strain are leaving the room. Aaaahhhhhhhhhhh. Mental health returns.

Regarding survival instinct, I finally have survival covered, and will be focusing a bit on others this week. Much currency of love needs to be repaid double.

September 18, 2004 4:42 AM

Greg says:

Hmm - no posts in several days. Seems unlikely. David mentioned to me a problem of one big Thai ISP cashing pages for up to two days, and that messes up with posting and viewing new posts on web boards.

If you are having problems posting or seeing new pages, try viewing the site through a proxy. For instance, you can go to www.anonymizer.com and type in mangosauce.com at the top of the page and click enter.

September 21, 2004 12:08 PM

Greg says:

Hmm - no posts in several days. Seems unlikely. David mentioned to me a problem of one big Thai ISP cashing pages for up to two days, and that messes up with posting and viewing new posts on web boards.

If you are having problems posting or seeing new pages, try viewing the site through a proxy. For instance, you can go to www.anonymizer.com and type in mangosauce.com at the top of the page and click enter.

September 21, 2004 12:08 PM

mike says:

I am a warm, compassionate african man, down to earth in Bangkok, Thailand. seeking a very special white lady. She will need to be very passionate. I love an educated lady, I want to have sexy hair . Her eyes will tell me the rest about her. Her lifes dream and goal should be to be in her mans house with him.
I have been looking for this girl who is very romantic, caring and dynamic for a long time relationship .One day this special one will find me and write me a note asking for me to accept her as the one I have been looking for almost all my life.
I long to embrace my girl in my arms. I long to feel her snuggle next to me as I rest. I long to hear her gentle voice whisper into my ear the things she knows pleases me. I will comfort her and keep her safe. She will be my greatest treasure. Is this you?
Let me hear from you if it is at :kewa77@yahoo.com

January 17, 2005 2:32 PM

wilbur says:

Sorry to say it, Mike, but I'm afraid you might have picked the wrong century in which to look for this girl!

January 18, 2005 4:57 AM

Johnny says:

Hope is not lost.
I was playing pool with a Thai man in "farangland" the other day, he couldn't take his eye off a chubby 20 y.o. that I was talking too. He informed me that he was a "tit man".
---------------
On a related story, there was an expose of the "happily kept" mens club from Singapore. Their moniker was "Secret Men's Business". Basically these are average farang dudes whose women happens to be a high powered, driven, career-orientated executives that have relocated to Singapore. They get together during the day to play tennis, golf, drinking etc, while the power-suit clad woman is hard at work. Sounds good to me, the men looked quite happy and relaxed to me. Ofcourse the maid was organising the domestic duties, so they had no worries at all.

June 26, 2006 10:24 AM

JJ says:

Reading about Julie Selva, it sounds just like a typical single bloke not in living Asia. The tears are streaming after hearing her story. I did see a beautiful Western girl glaring at me and my honey once. Having grown up on a farm and knowing animals, I tend to take people glaring at me quite seriously as most wild animals do that before they kill or attack something, it is the exact same as someone swearing their head off uncontrollably to me. Alot of young'uns think staring, glaring and pulling faces at people is acceptable, just because they didn't say anything, it never was, Asian people know this too.

July 22, 2006 12:37 PM

Christy says:

I'm a 45 yo woman from the US, strangly at the heighth of my beauty, in shape and well off. When I first arrived in Thailand I went on a date with a 54 yo English man who thought he could grab the back of neck to kiss me and slap my rear and abdomen repeatedly. He got quite drunk..
I'd been a nude dancer for 23 years and never experienced such horrendous disrespect at the clubs I worked at. He would have been bounced out in an instant.
Then I met a Thai man at the stable, he made me laugh hysterically and he loved horses too. He was 22 years younger but seemed genuinely interested when he wasn't busy drinking himself sick.
He was a lously lay but I was willing to teach. I fell quite in love with him
He dumped me suddenly and took up with the very, very plain ( in my view ) office girl. He also had a live- in girlfriend who'd been away and a young son I was told was his friend's
When I met am Italian dive instructor on a visa run and we made a date, he stood me up.
I've since bought 4 horses, one of which is a giant gelding named Khun Phan,(meaning Ladies's Man,) whom I'm totally reliving my adolescent-girls-horse-obsession with, installed them on my property and have really never been happier.
At least the shit I'm now dealing with doesn't stink.
If you're Farang,( not meaning foreign as is the common misconception, but an impolite word used like "Nigger" was in the states for decades, ) male or female Thai's will not be interested except in your money.
Men could care less as long as they're getting sex, so of course they'll only want compliant, beautiful Thai women.
I would reccommend other western women look at the lack of male companionship as a blessing , at least you're not being used and lied to for sex anymore...
I go to bed at 10 PM-alone aside from 2 kittens- and up at 6am to see to the horses..

August 12, 2006 7:52 PM

rastham says:

Christy,

as a thai guy, i can tell you that many of us would love to date a western woman.

just because you've met one bad thai guy, doesn't mean all thai men are no good. so please don't give up on thai men and give us another chance.

dealing with western women is new to many of us, and many of us just don't know how to treat western women. however, many of us are very willing to learn, how to please western women. so please be patient with us, thai guys.

thanks

August 14, 2006 11:38 AM

khon deow says:

So, Rastham, how does a single white female meet a nice guy in Thailand? Please let me know as I have nearly given up all hope of finding even a date in Phuket. Are there any bars catering for female, hetrosexuals or are they just an urban myth?

Sorry, cant be patient for too much longer.

August 14, 2006 5:42 PM

Christy says:

Khon Deow,
Give it up! There's no chance of meeting guys...anywhere, especially in this climate of 100 Thai, young and gorgeous women for every grossly overwieght, unattractive farang man-
Thai men are quite possibly the worst on the planet for chauvinistic views, alcoholism and then there's the novelty of getting used for money in addition to sex.
Farangs are scum to snotty nationalistic Thai's and only suitable for being used.. Just say "No thanks. "
Try the horse thing, they really are more satisying and will cost you less in the end.

September 4, 2006 6:37 AM

jaime says:

why does the writer of this article sound like he's assumed rossa is looking for another ex-pat? nowhere in the letter does she state this. in asking that her potential partner be able to speak english, it doesn't exclude thai men. if so many thai women are busy with foreigners, wouldn't this leave more available thai men? when i was in thailand, i found a great number of the men there very interested in dating a foreign girl. same goes for hong kong and japan.

September 30, 2006 12:04 AM

daniel says:

I have to say that the younger Thai men like the slim white skinned girls with a bit of meat on them so it seems that the Thai men like our western women and that western men such as myself like the darker skin lithe beauties of SEA.

Well Iâ€™m so glad about thatâ€¦ thank you Thai guys, let us have your women and please please do not hesitate to take our western women away from us every chance you get.

thank you so much!

Psâ€¦. { So, Rastham, how does a single white female meet a nice guy in Thailand? Please let me know as I have nearly given up all hope of finding even a date in Phuket. Are there any bars catering for female, heterosexuals or are they just an urban myth? }

Sorry, cant be patient for too much longer.

Well, Khon dew I suggest you get out your purse and start flashing around some baht in the Thai guys general direction, my only thought is if your having problems with finding a Thai guy, you either, A. have the personality of a wet mop, or B. are so ugly that not even your stunning personality will get you anywhere.
It has to be one of these above mentioned things because Thai men do like to play the field with foreign women and are usually looking for no strings attachments as well.
I know this all too well as I lived in Phuket for a year in Patong, Karon and Kata beaches.

Chock dee

October 1, 2006 6:58 PM

Ed says:

Daniel, maybe you can answer this question for me, since you've lived on Phuket for a year.

i went to Thailand with my wife (sigh), about 9 months ago and spent a few days on Phuket. while on Kata and Patong beaches, i noticed a lot of farang guys with thai girls, which is to be expected. but strangely enough, i also noticed quite a few farang girls with thai guys. in some of the beach bars and clubs, there where a lot farang girls with thai guys. these girls where mostly younger(20s) and i'm guessing, also tourists as well. i'm bringing this up, because well...i'm kinda surprised with this type of pairing. it's just something i didn't expect to see.

so is this an anomaly, or does this happen on a regular basis, on Phuket?

thanks

October 3, 2006 12:21 PM

daniel says:

Well it doesnâ€™t happen so much in an area such as Bangla road in Patong where at least half the majority of tourists there are sex tourists but I have seen a few younger male tourists with Thai girls and believe me if you are cute and young enough on many occasions you WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR SEX, the Thai girls like their boys YOUNGâ€¦.. I never asked why but that is what I know.

Thai guys will go with female tourists but the likelihood that the girl wonâ€™t pay is very low, the Thai man usually will always want the money no matter how cute she may be, some Thai guys will go to the BANANA disco on Patong beach road but they seem to be looking mainly for Japanese girls and I never see many Thai guys in TAI PAN they usually have freelancers looking for foreign guys, some foreign girls do get picked up in PHUKET TOWN and this for a foreign girl would be a good place to start there are two clubs to try which are JAMMIN and the TIMBER HUT.

In places such as Karon and Kata they have bars clubs etc but on a smaller scale, again most of the younger male or females who want to find a nice Thai companion but donâ€™t really want to pay for it will go to Karon or Kata, even so there are many other places where a foreign girl could find a Thai man the SAFARI club between Patong and Kata beach is another a good place to start.
The top spot though for any gal looking to sow her wild oats with a Thai guy would be ANY KARAOKE bar away from the nightlife areas such as SAINAMYEN ROAD just off Rat-U-Thit road in Patong beach.

In other words ED, it happens more often that you think and sometimes it is actually happening under your nose and you donâ€™t even notice it. If you go to islands such as Koh Samui you will see it a hell of a lot but the full moon party on Koh Pha Ngan is where the foreign girls see most of their action with the Thai guys, even the ones who are ugly and have wet mop personalities.

October 4, 2006 12:46 AM

singergirl says:

this site and forum has been sooo informative!
I'm divorced Canadian who is corresponding with Thai male.He is a "celebrity" who opened the communication after I signed his official website guestbook.We've been corresponding for a month now,and he did live in US for many years.Is he in between worlds?Best of both worlds?
He's up front with his drinking,but also speaks of workouts.So far a balance.
I'm a good ole Canuck who can drink with the rest of them,and sweat it out to recover.
I guess what I really wanna know is:
What do Thai men like in a woman?(Any woman.)

October 22, 2006 2:04 PM

bill says:

Same thing western men want. To qoute a line from another comment on this site: Good Food, Good f*ck, Good suck, and your man never leave you. See men are simple thats all you need to do. Oh, and don't try to completely run their life.

October 23, 2006 10:45 PM

Looper says:

What do Thai men like in a woman?
Their (presumably*) modest cocks I guess?
*presumably by the uncomfortable experience of trying to use a Thai condom

October 24, 2006 4:06 PM

singergirl says:

thank-you bill,
good common sense advice.I'm a crappy cook tho' ;)
can i make first move?(Buy drinks/dinner) or will that come across
as 'loud farang woman'?I am trying to learn customs, and Thai words & phrases.
I won't be judging other caucasians(male or female) when I visit.Nor will I act 'holier than thou' if another caucasian male/female says hello.
OK, other than bills' "good food, good f*ck, good suck" advice,come on,tell me the good ole sports team name,umm what's the popular beer/drink to offer?
Sh*t like that to get me started please
knowledgeable folk.
With respect to Thai friends and All Others,
singergirl.

October 27, 2006 11:41 AM

Bill says:

I would figure he wouldn't mind at all if you made a move on him. Just don't act too slutty in public as regardless of what is said on this site, the middle to upper class thai men are all about face (meaning being respectable in public/not being embarassed). I would probably not offer to spring for the drinks right off as he may take that as you thinking he is poor and cannot afford to buy you dinner and drinks (again the loss of face issue). I have a bunch of friends in the thai navy and the first time we went out I offered to buy for the group, that was a big mistake as they were kind of insulted by it. They took it as me saying they were poor and couldn't afford to buy thier own drinks. I recovered by saying they could buy all my drinks shipboard, and that seemed to fix my faux paus. Anyway, when your ready to show your stuff and win his heart with some great sex just suggest that you go somewhere private and do your thing. I wouldn't give it up on the first date though even if you want it bad. Any non-hooker girl I have ever met there was at least a 3 to 5 day wait. If your just there on holiday you can probably trim that to kissing and foreplay on the first night and then go all the way night two. Pretty much figure anything goes behind behind closed doors and you can probably even take him anal with no real problems cause he ain't really gonna hurt ya with that thing. If you want to check what your gonna be gettin prior to gettin it pick up a pack of thai condoms and you will be able to set your expectations from that. You might try some kegle (I think I spelled that right) exercises prior to meeting him to really seal the deal. It's just westerners are bigger in general everywhere and well you want him to enjoy it so "kegle up". I wish you the best of luck and I hope it goes well for ya. I wish more western girls would go for the thai guys. It would definitely improve relations. Oh almost forgot to tell ya if your as hot as you mentioned you will be a major status symbol for him so expect to be shown off.

October 27, 2006 4:40 PM

daniel says:

i was going to add something but bill really has just about said all that is needed.

ps. its all about communication and culture including class levels the higher his class structure the more face he will want you to save for him.

November 14, 2006 1:38 AM

Telemachus says:

Knowing Asian blokes as I do (spent lots of time in Japan and some in Thailand) they expect mother figures so you can add wiping his ass to the above. That's about it, oh and Bill is right about the status symbol thing. It is unlikely that he will relate to you or treat you like a woman (in the western sense) he simply doesn't know how.
Best of Luck!!!!

November 23, 2006 7:02 AM

boomer says:

No one should help this white anlgo cunt to find a man.

All white anlgo women in Thailand should get the fuck out of this country.

Its a country for men.

Now you know how rejection feels you white bitch.

November 24, 2006 9:20 AM

Pants Elk says:

Boomer, mom says put your long pants on, we're going to grandma's for dinner.

November 24, 2006 1:40 PM

Anonymous says:

Elk your a gay ridden faggot that likes American women aka manly looking women.

November 26, 2006 12:35 AM

Anonymous says:

"Anonymous".

Ri-ight.

November 26, 2006 5:38 AM

Long Term Love of Thailand says:

Not everyoneâ€™s experience is the same in Thailand, thank goodness!! I am a single 30 year old foreign women in Phuket and I love it!

I would firstly like to argue that getting a man of any nationality has never been a problem for me. Gorgeous, funny, successful and â€˜eagerâ€™ men are plentiful however the length of their stay is in short supply. Most are either on short term business trips or holidays. In their minds, Thai women equal prostitute so a white women is 'safe'.

The long term farang men in Phuket are sadly gay, married, ugly, or into Thai women. But hey thatâ€™s life, unlike my friends at home, I have a great life. No domestic work (God bless my maid), great house, beach at my back door, plentiful portions of sexy man with no strings attached and an ex-husband guilty enough to pay for it all!!!!

So lifeâ€™s fantastic right? Well itâ€™s Friday night, I am in my PJs and surfing the netâ€¦.. you be the judge!

December 1, 2006 11:59 PM

Pants Elk says:

Hey, "Long Term Love of Thailand" - may I call you "Long Term" for short? I feel I know you well enough - I was going to get into some sleazy single-entendre chatroom moves here ("Common Sense" taught me everything I know in this department) but you pretty much spoiled my first line, which is, "hey! What you wearin'?"

...........

(Pants, please contact me at my personal email address. I'd like you to take over the column in my absence, you're so funny.

David)

---------------

[Just to clear up any confusion that might arise, the above comment isn't mine - David]

December 2, 2006 1:51 PM

boomer says:

Love your an ugly piece of white american cunt trash.

Thai women are a billion times more beauitful then you you ugly shit face.

They are smoking hot and no how to have sex.

December 17, 2006 2:59 AM

Pants Elk says:

Boomer, mom says clear up your Hot Wheels layout in the sitting room, Grandma's coming.

December 17, 2006 3:49 PM

boomer says:

Elk, your mother has AIDS and your dad is a pedophile and your a gay faggot.

December 23, 2006 10:59 AM

nick says:

How do thai women treat aveage looking guys. Some western women would say I was handsome, but most would say I'm a 5 maybe a 6. I'm tired of American womens looks of disappovel. I have a ton of money and I'm not ugly, is thailand for me?

February 26, 2007 1:44 AM

Pants Elk says:

Nick! Nick, Nick, Nick ... *sigh*
Thailand is probably not for you. Thai girls do not care about money, nor the cellphones it can buy. They frequently refuse it, in fact, coming as they do from rural areas where currency (other than buffalo dung) is unknown. On the other hand, however, they rate male handsomeness very highly, and according to a strict grading. Most girls will only "go" with a 7 or up. Those tolerating lower grades (such as your own) are often malformed, elderly, or in possession of a Y chromosome.
I suggest, therefore, that we combine forces! Your ton of money will certainly be as valued by me as my handsomeness (9, sometimes 9.5) is valued by the Thai girls. I will forward my bank details on request.

February 26, 2007 2:26 PM

nick says:

why don't I just send you some of the pictures of the girls who want to fuck my brains out in china? naked or clothed? I'm sure my 2 million could buy me some pussy, what do you think? If you're going to talk about how hot you are please send me a pic so i can see what the girls in thailand want to fuck. My uncle is an actor in LA and has got a ton hot chicks and I look a lot like him, so I'm guessing i won't have many problems in thailand. Docjay in Full Metal Jacket, and please don't tell me how ugly he is. He was a working actor in L.A. and I'm guessing the women I've seen him with would blow the chicks you've been with out of the water?

February 26, 2007 10:29 PM

Anonymous says:

The rules never really changed........just the economics.

If you are unattractive in your native land.......you will remain unattractive in a foreign land. If you didn't have problems attracting a mate in your native land, your mate in a foreign land will also really love you.

You must be crazy to think that if you are overly unattractive......... the beauty next to you is actually deeply attracted to you without alternative motives.

Miss Universe 2005 Natalie Glebova, a Russian from Canada comes to Thailand and is dating Thai tennis star Paradorn with no problems. Both are attractive.

Miss Universe 1988 Porntip Nakhirunkanok married a very old but billionaire Herb Simon. Do you think Porntip has a thing for grandpas.......... or is money in itself what makes a man attractive?

No matter what part of the world you're in....... attractiveness comes first.......but this can be offset by your relative wealth to your partner.......therefore, if you ain't got the look, you better have the cash!

Same with lonely Western women.........if you are truly attractive, you will not have a problem....... if not, you may need to seek out poorer gents.......... I know this is the "manly" thing to do.

Until next time, hope the truth doesn't cut too much.

There are very few Barbie dolls, with a Harvard education, and her own corporation........ offset your negatives and move on.........there is no such thing as utopia - just the same rules with different economics.

February 28, 2007 8:06 AM

fbuom says:

Nick,

Anonymous has it mostly right.

Even with the look, even with the cash, Thai women (all women?) will also look at the 'jai', the heart, the 'spirit' or in western terms, the attitude.

It's the combination that counts, the sum of the parts. Any one can make up for the others, but a weakness in one requires real strengths in the others.

It's my belief that 'jai' does a better job compensating for weaknesses than either of the other two. With the BGs, of course, cash is always strong, but do you want a long-term relationship with a BG?

Of course, if all you want _is_ 'short-time', lay out the cash!

fbuom

February 28, 2007 10:15 PM

Pants Elk says:

"Of course, if all you want _is_ 'short-time', lay out the cash!"

Or you could go longtime (it seems like a lifetime) with a western woman and lay out a lot more cash, and expect to lose half of what remains to you when you split up.

Rod Stewart said (although it had been said before) "I'm not going to get married again, I'm just going to find a woman I don't like and give her a house."

February 28, 2007 11:21 PM

jomo says:

Mine isn't a comment but rather a look for a relationship.Well am male 25 yrs black guy and honestly looking for a white lady to hook up with.Am lonely and really dont like thai girls.Right now am in thailand and would be great to hook up with a cool white lady just be your self.Reach me at my email zachykiny@yahoo.com.read you soon
cheers

April 20, 2007 1:15 PM

Sienna says:

I don't get it. My American girlfriend and I have been to Thailand twice and have already had two Thai boyfriends each. We practically have to beat the thai men off with a stick, we get so much attention. Who wrote this supposedly "deleted" newspaper article, anyway? I have been approached by many western and non-western men since living on a thai island for the past 3 months. When the thai men see me with a thai guy they get all excited, like maybe there's a chance for them, too, and they often tell me they'd like a girlfriend & ask me if I have any friends that are looking for a thai boyfriend.

When the western men find out/see I have a thai boyfriend, they usually seem surprised, & many times they will make crude comments about how small thai condoms are, alluding to the fact that my boyfriend is supposedly really small down there (he's not). Or they'll say derogatory things about thai men. Other times they'll hit on me right in front of my boyfriend, not thinking we're together. This actually happened with my last thai boyfriend, as well, and he was standing one foot away from me at the time!

So I guess my experience (and my friend's) is so remotely different than the women who have posted, and I don't get it. My friend's boyfriend won't let her pay for anything when they go out. I've had a longer relationship with my boyfriend, so we split most things or take turns paying, since we're both trying to save money for the future, but I live rent-free in his home and he pays for all the utilities, most of the gas for the car, etc. He takes me on dates and even does my laundry! Yes, you heard that right. I hate doing laundry. He willingly asks me what I need washed -- on a weekly basis!

When he's at work, he will call his mom to pick me up to get something to eat, since I don't have a car or motorbike here of my own. Sometimes when I have to go somewhere alone he'll ask me if I need any money.

So again, I think if any of the western women living in thailand would really like to date a thai man and/or have a serious relationship with one, there should be no problem! It's so easy, I don't see why anyone would have any trouble. I'm not so keen on bars. I'd suggest that if you really want to meet a compatible man, do the things you love to do -- go to those places that have the activities you love -- and you will find him. And I STRONGLY suggest learning thai, no matter how much or how little English your potential man speaks...especially if you are living in thailand! Many Thai men are shy about speaking english -- others know basic sentences and words they use over and over again. The more thai you use with them, the more they will open up to you. They absolutely adore western women that make an effort to speak their language. My boyfriend's mom used to practically hide from me until she realized I was open to trying to communicate with her in thai, however much sign-language I had to use or how caveman-like I sounded. Now she's one of my better thai friends -- and she's all excited about teaching me new thai words, talking to me nonstop!

I think you will find what you perceive. If you think all thai men are money-hungry, butterfly drunks, for sure you will find those people, because they're out there. But there are many non-thai men who fit this category as well. If, however, you look for the kind-hearted, genuine, open-minded thai guys, they are out there, too. SO many of them are interested in foreign women, but either have no experience being with one, or -- the opposite extreme -- are tired of the tourist girls who come and go. If you plan on being in thailand for awhile and having a real relationship, you are sure to find tons of thai guys who are completely open to that and, if marriage interests you, these guys (from my experience) will most likely be less fearful of committing to marriage and family/kids than their western counterparts.

April 25, 2007 1:38 AM