May 6 2004

In step with Thai music

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the soothing melodies that provide the soundtrack to late-night Bangkok taxi rides? Or do you prefer the tracks that periodically inject a bit of life into bored go-go dancers?

Both styles are just part of a rich tradition of Thai music that goes back generations. Mango Sauce reader, Seamus, brings these unique sounds to our farang ears at www.monsoon-country.org and now he explains why.

On a working trip to Thailand in 2000, I picked up a CD of traditional Thai music at a store in MBK. I had heard a street musician playing something that sounded familiar, almost Celtic, and I became interested in learning more about the folk music of this unusual country. However, when I listened to the CD at home, I was more than a little disappointed and I recall thinking that Thailand didn't have much of a musical tradition.

A couple of years later, I was watching a Vietnamese film and, again, heard that familiar sound and decided that I really should find out more about SE Asian music. John Clewley's chapters in the Rough Guide to World Music were a good source of information. John is a columnist at the Bangkok Post, where he writes a bi-weekly piece on world music and is a very knowledgeable chap indeed. But reading about music is like washing your feet with your socks on. I had to hear for myself what he had described so well.

Internet research turned out to be more difficult than I had imagined. Because of the alternate spellings used for Thai words, the search engines aren't always very useful. Of the three types of Thai country music, luk thung was easiest to find and a few aficionados in the West have put up websites. There's also a Bangkok radio station online. Next was mor lam, known in the West perhaps because of the excellent Isan Slete album recorded in London in 1989. But the music that intrigued me the most - and which turned out to be the prize I was looking for - was kantrum (gun-troom). According to Clewley, kantrum is "lower Isan's best kept secret". This must be true since hardly anyone I talked to, Thai or otherwise, had ever heard of it.

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Kantrum is to the Khmer-speaking region what mor lam is to the Lao-speaking region of Isan, with the two-string fiddle taking the place of the bamboo khaen. In modern versions of both styles the traditional instruments are often replaced by keyboards, with the addition of drum and bass. Both styles are strongly rhythmic and, while mor lam is somewhat bluesy, kantrum has a distinctively soulful sound.

One year and a trip to SE Asia later I had a small but growing collection of CDs and VCDs. But what was I to do with it? I felt strongly that the music deserved to be heard and, remembering the difficulty I had in finding it, the answer became clear: I needed to create a music site on the worldwide web. And so www.monsoon-country.org was born in March 2004.

The purpose is to showcase the country music of Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam. Exactly what defines country music is a matter for the academics. For the rest of us, however, it's probably enough to say we know it when we hear it. For those who enjoy this style of music, the website could be the start of a personal exploration. Perhaps it will open a window of understanding on the wonderful people of SE Asia.

Go and have a listen. There are plenty of other farangs besides Seamus and Mr Peter who have grown to love this style of music.

[Posted to Thai Secrets by David]

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Readers' comments

mr peter says:

Mention thai muisic and most people will come up with names like carabao, china dolls, loso and even worse our old mate tata young. To me people are missing out if they think this is the extent of thai music, in fact I don't consider it thai music at all.
I have been collecting thai Cd's for 10 years and have about 400, must have been to over 100 concerts by now but I have lost count, real thai music is quite adictive. I must confess to not being a katrum fan though, I like luktung, morlam and lukrung. Nothing is more fun than a luktung/morlam concert and if you ever get the chance go to a Nok Noi one, hers are the largest. My favourite concerts are siriporn ampaipong and the divine jintara poonlap. There are so many great singers and although luktung is only a few decades old morlam goes back over a centuries. You would think then that there would be plenty of books on the subject, but there is bugger all. John Clewley is the only falang writer on the subject that I have found who is worth reading, pity he has not put out a book of his own.
In Dec luktung fm have an all day concert with over 100 singers, every sat it's the mall bang kae for veteethai and in between there are concerts, cafes, karaokes, Cd shops and singing contests on thai tv. Los should stand for land of song.
I have read about this Isan Slete album but never seen or heard it, nor met anyone that has, is it a myth?-peter
http://photos.yahoo.com/thai38

May 7, 2004 5:17 AM

Pete Tong says:

I have to confess, I too have been addicted to Thai music for the last few years. My favorite artists include Port Foon, Ong Ma Bo and Jiggy Jiggy Spaff Shot. I've mixed some of these rare grooves with some laid back acid house jaZz and it's gone down a storm in Ibiza. I'm currently putting together a rare Thai Groove Mix which will be released in the UK late this summer. If anyone's interested, I can email them some demo samples.

Chill out and as they say it soi cowboy when I'm in town - "I'm avin it large"

May 7, 2004 5:55 AM

John U says:

I too love some Thai music, but I haven't got a clue who the artists are or what genre is or area it's from.

I usually hear it in a mall, and go to the music shop playing it and tell them I want what is playing over the PA system.

I've ended up with loads of karaoke cd's, and I love them. Trouble is the labels are all in Thai and I don't know what I'm listening to.

I'm working my way through Seamus's site - fantastic Seamus - and am really enjoying myself. I take my hat off to you. You must have put in a hell of a lot of research to come up with the names areas etc.

Keep up the good work.

May 7, 2004 6:33 AM

usvirgin says:

Bring it, Pete.

May 7, 2004 7:25 AM

Pete Tong Fan says:

Pete Tong (http://www.trustthedj.com/PeteTong/) is a reader of Mango Sauce? Interesting...

Hey Pete, I for one would LOVE to some demos of you remixing Thai folk songs. Too bad you didn't leave us any contact information!

Has anyone else heard of any DJs (BKK based or otherwise) who have mixed this music for a modern dance club? Often when I'm enjoying my late-night taxi ride, I am thinking that BKK clubs could use a little more Issan...

May 7, 2004 11:52 AM

mr peter says:

What a relief, I expected to see a string of immature and sarcastic posts in response to this article. I have posted similar things on thailand-uk.com only to be met by a hail of nasty and agressive reactions. Strange on a board full of folks who claim to love everything thai.
Peter T there have been Issan mix type Cd's released, about three years ago there were two Issan Remix ones, still have one I will dig it out to see what label it's on.-peter

May 7, 2004 2:16 PM

mr peter says:

Anyone know where I can get thai/lao songs translated into english from the karaoke phontics? best price so far is 800 baht a song, but of course the cheaper I can find the more I can get done-peter

May 7, 2004 7:49 PM

NJW says:

Interesting comments from Mr Peter about a certain forum. Interestingly, his posts about Thai and Lao music on that forum were often very informative, and usually accorded respect. It was his posts slagging off other members, particularly those where he opined that anyone who visited Pattaya only did so for the whores, and the general low opinions he often expressed about Thai women (Jintara excepted) that led to his retirement from that board.

Haven't changed much, have you, Peter?

May 8, 2004 4:13 AM

usvirgin says:

Hi PETE TONG FAN,

I believe that this Pete Tong is using a borrowed alias; a double deception.

He gives us a clue as to his true identity,,though, when he tries to cover his tracks by saying that the girls on Soi Cowboy are "avin' it large" when he is in town. Ermm...not that I would personally know.

Still, he is likely a better man on this topic than your idol, unless he is totally taking the piss (which he is apt to do), and I'd also point out that he's not generally very helpful (he's never set me up with any hi-so chick admirers in Bangkok), so I will also be interested to see if he comes through for our 'ehive'.

May 8, 2004 10:44 AM

usvirgin says:

I didn't mean it when I said 'he never set me up with any hi-so chick admirers in Bangkok".

That sounded so gay

What I meant was that he never set me up with any of HIS admirers (a group that happens to include hot, hi-so chicks).

Fucking hotel television internet access keyboards...

May 8, 2004 11:00 AM

mr peter says:

I see the internet police from the hypocritical forum thai-uk is following me around the internet spreading lies about me. I try to discuss music and as usual they want to talk about pattaya and whores, I cannot say I am surprised. It is a lie that posts about thai music on that board were treated well. I posted a link to a Lao site and all the responses were sacrastic and juvenille worthy of 12 years old boys.I have a high respect for thai ladies, unlike thai-uk who show great disrespect to them if they display english skils they deem to be too good for a thai. Although many of the members are married to bar girls they seem to be in denial on the matter-not that anyone cares. Don't mention the whore!-peter

May 8, 2004 1:45 PM

Duke says:

Mr Peter,
I do not have an interest in Thai music so have never responded to one of your posts on Thailand-UK however I question your comment re having a high respect for Thai ladies. Is this why you post on another forum about a Thai massage parlour opening in Leicester that you plan to visit soon ?
Respect, my arse you're a sad old man with no one to love so you get your kicks from being a troll.

Duke

May 8, 2004 3:33 PM

mr peter says:

well this has made me laugh. If you are suggesting that people who visit massage parlors have no respect for women I suggest that lumps me together with most of the posters on that sad little board. It amazes me that you happily married guys don't have better things to do on a sat morning. Me a troll? then why bother to respond if only to insult?-peter

May 8, 2004 5:01 PM

mr peter says:

I should have added that I will not be responding to any more nasty posts from the bully boys at thailand-uk. I would not like to see this site brought down to the level of that one, so please don't bother to try. Thank you-peter

May 8, 2004 5:14 PM

John U says:

Mr.Peter,

I think it is best not to respond to the miserable fuckers who are always trying to put others down.

Billy P. had the right idea. If We don't respond they dry up. (Hopefully)

May 8, 2004 5:49 PM

richard says:

Yo Tongy Boy would love to hear your demos put up a link or something so we can all enjoy

May 8, 2004 6:39 PM

Laurie Cunningham says:

Hi John,

Isn't telling other people not to respond to the 'miserable fuckers' sort of indirectlty responding to them?

Or am I just being a smartarse?

May 8, 2004 7:33 PM

John U says:

Hi Laurie,

Yes it is I suppose, but I think what feeds them is a direct response to them which encourages them to respond to your response, and so forth, and so fifth etc. etc. ad infinitum

Anyway, I've said my last word on the subject now.

May 8, 2004 7:56 PM

NJW says:

Sorry to once more hijack a discussion on Thai music, although there doesn't seem to be much of that, but just a quick response to MR PETER.

It is sad that you think that people follow you around the internet just to spread lies about you. It just reflects the sad life that you lead. Do you deny the comments you have made about Pattaya? Do you deny the comments you gave made denigrating Thai women? Who was it who referred to Thai customs as "Just another backward and socialy damaging bit of Asian nonsense?"

However, you are right when you say that the level of Thailand-UK was going down. But it's gone up a hell of a lot since you left!

May 8, 2004 8:38 PM

mr peter says:

I must defend myself yet again, but for the very last time. I do hate Pattaya and have said negative things about it, what a terrible crime. I do not denigrate thai women, but perhaps some of the mugs who married bar girls. My reference to the backward custom was about face. However, I feel this is not the place for thai-uk tanrums to be argued over, but I expect NJW (wonder what those initials stand for?) will want to have the last word, they always do.
Back to the subject of the article though I have found the Asean Dance Esan Remix on Grammy number 8850107441778 there was another one album 2. Jintara was on veteethai today talking about her USA tour, should be on TGN next week. chock dee -peter

May 8, 2004 9:06 PM

mr peter says:

Just listening to this dance CD again after three years I am much more impressed with it, the vocalist sounds very much like Jintara. Would be great to play in a disco, party etc. Grammy do not seem to have followed up with any more releases after number 2.
This is an interesting link for thai music, OK it's in Japanese and he don't give a monkey's about copyright but if you follow the links some of them still play and anyone who lists Banyen and Jintara first obviously is a top notch geezer-peter

http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicStar/2893/thaimusic.html

May 8, 2004 9:50 PM

usvirgin says:

Not to take sides, but all this flap over the sad, miserable, fucks who migrate from Farangland to Pattaya makes me want to suggest that David write a position piece on the matter, just so we'll know who should or shouldn't fuck off from this site, once and for all.

; (that means winky)

May 8, 2004 11:27 PM

mr peter says:

But that would mean him having to go there, can we expect him to put himself through that just to write a report? Well why not, a weekend should be tolerable as long as he does not go into the sea of course.
If visiting pattaya though (i dislike even typing it) beware the thai cafe's if in search of thai music as even here you are likely to be ripped off as the gullible falang tourist.-peter

May 9, 2004 12:00 AM

Pik says:

Mr Peter, I'm new here, and don't want to get involved in your childish arguments, but what have you got against www.thai-uk.org? It certainly doesn't give the impression of being run by a mug who married a bar girl.

I want to disagree when you refer to luktung and morlam as Thai forms of music. I'm sorry, but they are not, they are Lao. Carabao and the others you say are not Thai are certainly more Thai than Jintara, who is Lao.

Please try and be more accurate in the future.

May 9, 2004 3:35 AM

mr peter says:

Dear Pik

I'm afraid you are wrong about luktung as that developed out of the central thai folk traditions and is most certainly thai music in it's origins as much as lukrung and for the first two or three decades had little issan input. It was only with the influx of issan, or lao people if you want to use that description, into Bangkok from the 60's onward that luktung develped into something with a more issan flavour to it. If you go back an listen to recordings from the 50's 60's and 70's they sound very different to some luktung today. Now some, but not all luktung is sung to lao instruments giving it an issan type sound, this is called luktung pryuuk but it does not mean that it's morlam or developed from morlam or that it's origins are lao.
Yes morlam is of course lao music but issan is part of thailand so I think it can still be called thai music.
I am not saying certain artists are not thai because of where they were born, I am saying some of the music played, irrespective of the artists origins is not really thai music. There are string singers from issan just as there are singers from bangkok and the south even who can sing morlam. I dont believe, although you disagree, that just because a singer is thai that what they are performing is necessarily thai music any more than a thai hamburger is thai food just because it has a thai flavour.
I recommend you read J Clewley's section on thai music in the rough guide to world music, it is very good-and veryaccurate.-

Ps you have your websites mixed up, I have nothing against the site you mention- I never said it was thai-uk.org-peter

May 9, 2004 4:15 AM

tonychang says:

I've never been to pattaya.
....any chance of a whip round?

May 9, 2004 4:19 AM

mr peter says:

Hua Hin is nicer and there is a very good singing cafe called kruathai along that road by the sea across from sarah janes issan restaurant, ah wish I were there now, I'd even listen to our tata.............peter

May 9, 2004 4:44 AM

Pete Tong says:

Mr Peter. I think you're wrong on this one. Luktung has its origins in Shan state in Burma. Some say that the Shans picked up on this happening groove due to the influx of Chinese entrepeneurs who brought it with them via their connections with the Hmong tribe central in Laos. Some sort of ethno vibmespherical symbiosis. A rare groove loop if you like. Either way, I've been mixing some of these beats with techno and acid skiffle and its cock on. I'm setting up some hyperlinks soon so you cats can chill out to what's real in the FE. Maybe Dave can host an on-line rave when I've got the stuff laid down and ready to push.

May 9, 2004 6:15 AM

mr peter says:

Mr Tong

An interesting and somewhat original theory, would you like me to pass it on to mr clewley for inclusion in his next article on luktung? I think he would be fascinated-peter

May 9, 2004 6:40 AM

Pik says:

Mr. Peter.

So Lao music is Thai because you like it, modern Thai music isn't, because you don't like it. When you say "thai-uk" you mean some other website. I see, now I understand.

Mr. Tong,

Do you know where I can buy some Thai CDs in London? I've tried the world music sections in Virgin, HMV and Tower, but they don't have any. And what do you think of Fly and Clash? I like them, although the number one is Carabao.

I wonder what Ad would say if he knew he wasn't really Thai :-) 55555555555!

May 9, 2004 3:29 PM

mr peter says:

On the origins of luktung again I notice Mr Clewley does not go into detail in the rough guide to world music. Although very good the article is just not long enough to get into a lot of detail. However if I could take the libery of quoting from an email from mr Clewley:

Central Thai folk forms like lam tad, pleng choi and pleng puen bahn generally, long with likay etc, created luk thung. No doubt the forced migration of Lao families by Thai military to the Central Plains (Lopburi, Supanburi etc) influenced the unique 'Supan' sound of Luk thung.

The supan sound refers to important singers who develped luktung such as sayan sanyar and pumpuang who lived in this central area. I think surapol also came from around there. Nothing to do with Burma of course!-peter

May 9, 2004 3:34 PM

mr peter says:

Pik as I think you know there are two websites with very similar names, I was refering to one not the one ending .org. I never said Ad was not thai I said, by refering to the acts I did, that I consider string music as not really being thai music. Carabao are not a string band. If you like I will say that string music is just not very good, like pop music everywhere it tends to be formulaic and sung by pretty faces rather than people with talent. Please do not mis quote what I have said.-
Thai music is not to be found in London but can be ordered over the web, the rough giude to thai music can be had in UK, but you will not find carabao featured i'm afraid-peter

May 9, 2004 3:50 PM

mr peter says:

The popular sites for ordering thai music (even string)

http://www.ethaicd.com
http://www.thaimegamart.com
http://www.thainetcity.com

I think the rough guide can be ordered from amazon-peter

May 9, 2004 3:55 PM

mr peter says:

whoops, reading the first post again I did wrongly lump poor old carabao along with string acts, but I certainly did not say he is not thai. -peter

May 9, 2004 4:05 PM

PIK says:

"I do not consider it to be Thai music at all." This is what you said? I suppose you must be right as you are an educated Farang. Ignorant Thai people are too stupid to choose our own music!

May 9, 2004 5:31 PM

mr peter says:

Pik you started on this thread by saying you did not want to get into childish arguments, now it seems you have changed your mind. If you have anything worthwhile to say on thai music please do, if you want an argument please email me I will be only too happy to oblige-peter

May 9, 2004 5:51 PM

PIK says:

I do not want argument with you, MR PETER. No point, you Farang, you think you know Thai better than Thai people. You talk about what other Farang say. Why not talk about what Thai people say? Because you not know what Thai people say.

I think this site should have a big sign

THAI PEOPLE NOT WELCOME HERE

May 9, 2004 6:54 PM

mr peter says:

I quote from falang sources because it is easier for me, but if you like a can dig out some quotes on luktung and morlam from Pattana Kitiarsa a researcher at Nakhon Rachesima University if you would find that more convincing. I have talked about luktung and morlam also with Sunaree Rachesima and Siriporn Ampaipong (through interpreter) so I hope I have an appreciation of at least what luktung and morlam are and the origins. I am not an expert though just an enthusiast.
I am sure thai people are welcome here along with anyone else, I suspect though that those looking for pointless arguments are not. Feel free to disagree with my opinions but not on established facts.-peter

BTW as a thai you might be able to help me can you tell me what veteethai means?

May 9, 2004 7:39 PM

David says:

Pik - Thai people are more than welcome to visit Mango Sauce and to become contributors - David.

May 9, 2004 9:07 PM

PIK says:

Thank you David. Maybe it just MR Peter who does not like Thai people.

Mr Peter, the person you say tell you are Lao, or Isaan. I have no problem with them, but when I come to England first, I call some one English and he say "No, I am from Wales, not English!" Kao jai mai?

Also you like luktung and morlam, up to you. I think you know more about that than me, as I do not like too much. But you talk bad about other Thai music and you say it is not Thai. This tells me that you know very little about Thailand.

This word veteethai. I don't know it, maybe I read it wrong. Can you can write it in Thai for me?

May 9, 2004 9:49 PM

mt peter says:

Mai kao jai, who are you saying is lao of the people refered to? Nakhom Rachisima is not Issan. Having an opinion about music is not bad it's just my opinion and mine is that string is not worthy to be called thai because as a style it merely apes inferior (in my opinion) western music. If you are thai you should be very proud at having a musical heritage which has some of the most beautiful music in the world, jing jing. I wish you would not say that I do not like thai people just because I do not like a musical style, I do find that quite an insult--peter

May 10, 2004 2:43 AM

mr peter says:

Pik
It is very interesting to have a thai person to talk to about thai music. I do not know much about pleng phua cheewit, as you are a carabao fan could you give us a quick history of this style, or maybe talk about a few of carabao's more famous songs and the social impact the more important ones have had?-peter

May 10, 2004 3:15 AM

Kaz Deyna says:

Peter,

I refer to your 7 May posting where you express relief about not receiving 'immature and sarcastic' postings. Well, sunshine, you're on the brink of a few.

You've made your point - about 18 times - now move on.

May 10, 2004 2:52 PM

mr peter says:

what point would that be? This thread is about thai music, do you have anything to add to the discussion?-peter

May 10, 2004 3:41 PM

sugar says:

Peter, you must be one of those guys wearing a silk shirt with polyester trousers and dancing the ram-wong just to impress upon the "natives" how well you blend-in with the local culture.

May 10, 2004 5:12 PM

mr peter says:

They don't do ram- wong at the concerts I go to, and sorry but never owned a pair of strides made of polyester. Difficult to blend in where your the only falang face around, you stick out like a sore thumb whatever you wear. I prefer a luktung fm t shirt myself as the ladies cannot stop coming up to it to read all the script, very nice.-peter

May 10, 2004 5:20 PM

Gaetano Scirea says:

God, this is the most boring thread in the history of mango sauce. Can people just e-mail Peter their queries and put the majority of us out of our misery.

(And don't say 'you don't have to read it'; every time I see another posting from Peter under 'in Step with Thai Music' my eyes get drawn towards it like a particularly horrendous car crash!

May 10, 2004 5:56 PM

mikky says:

Why would you have any interest in translating lao/thai karaoke to english and pay for it? I will translate it all for you in 3 quick sentances:

Here is all you need to know from thai/lao karaoke:

1. Im broken heart
2. Im in love but i cant marry him because he is poor and my family dosnt approve
3. It was a happy life, but then he went to see his other mistresses.

If you want to know more about this music and enjoy it, thats fine, but In my personal opinion I find it horrible and almost like a torture. I run whenever I hear it. The worst are those places you go to enjoy a quiet lunch and a group of thai guys show up sharing a whiskey and turning on that terrible machine with broken speakers on full blast with isan songs.

Nothing against those happy guys having a drink, but that machine/music is a killer.

If there is an ethernal hell, that must be very close to what they do down there!

May 10, 2004 8:51 PM

cat_strangler says:

Can we draw this thread to a close? It's getting old..

MR PETER's tedious ramblings are a drain on my good nature. Is he on a commision for number of comments posted? For fecks sake man, get a grip.

May 11, 2004 3:29 AM

STFU says:

Same thing goes for Tanai Kwai, John U, USVirgin and all of the other net-dorks clogging up decent sites with their pompous noise.

May 11, 2004 3:58 AM

Pete Tong says:

Chill out you felines. This is a cock on thread. CAT, STFU, MIKKY; bong up and check out what's happening with the ethno Issan vibe. This stuff is dancelicious. I was in Aya with me decks a few weeks back and these tunes were spinnin a tall un. Some of the stuff comin out of the FE is next generation bang. Don't kick it !

Mr Peter - respect. Next time I'm in BKK maybe we could meet up and lay down some chillin vibes. The people will chip on to this stuff so don't give it a wide one.

May 11, 2004 5:55 AM

STFU says:

Yeah, I'm diggin' the tunes, man. Just like I have been for years. That doesn't change the fact that the a-holes should STFU!

May 11, 2004 10:23 AM

PIK says:

MR PETER,

I am a student, I like what I like. I do not need to study music history to know what I like. But just for you I have looked for Carabao in google. Do you not have google? If you want to find out things it is useful, you should get it.

Many sites for Carabao in Thai, for you this one in English http://home.swipnet.se/muang_carabao/

Mikky. You are right, Lao music is boring, but Mr Peter like it, as do many Lao people, up to them.

May 11, 2004 6:39 PM

PIK says:

Thank you "septimua severus" for your mail to me. Why do you think Thai people ridiculous? I think you not like it when Thai people study. I think you want Thai people to be ignorant. I think you just want Thai man to drive tuk tuk for you and Thai girl to wait for you to pay her to fuck you. Do you know the word rascist? I think this is you.

May 11, 2004 7:08 PM

mr peter says:

Pik
You started out on this thread by stating you did not seek a childish argument and that Luktung was Lao music. When I argued it is not you complained that my sources were falang. When I offered you thai authorities you were not happy with that claiming they were lao, even though only Siriporn was. You have posted that I said Ad was not thai which was false and then insulted me by posting that I do not like thai people, presumably because of my opinion about a musical style. You have also said thais are not welcome here without giving any reasons. If these are not childish arguments I'd like to know what is. Finally when invited to share some knowledge about carabao who you think is 'number one' you do not want to, or more likely cannot do this. What is the point of posting on this thread if you do not what to say any more than like/not like?.
Anyway, as nothing else has been added that is interesting this will be my last post on this thread-peter

May 11, 2004 7:27 PM

cat_strangler says:

" this will be my last post on this thread"

now that's music to my ears.

now please close this boring thread...

free advice for MR PETER - buy some webspace, start a thai music forum & ramble onto your heart's content.

May 11, 2004 8:29 PM

PIK says:

MR PETER

You ask for info about Carabao, I give you a website you can visit. This is not good enough for you! I think you are this septimua serverus who send me insulting mail! I think the only Thai people you like are servents, you do not like Thai people who think for themselves, you only like Thai people who call you MR PETER and treat you like king!

If this website has room for you, then it is no place for Thai people!

Plenty more places where I can talk to Farang who do not treat me like shit and talk bad to me like you do.

May 11, 2004 9:53 PM

sunday says:

Peter,
If you like thai / lao music, but a music player and buy some cd's. Don't bore others with your drivel. If you can't find decent cd's tie your hands behind your back and jump from your pattaya condo.

May 12, 2004 8:48 AM

Nahm says:

Hello Pik!

I am a FARANG as they say here in the land of smiles... you know what, I am still not entirely sure if I am comfortable with that term... I think it's slightly predjudice (but hey that's another discussion) what I wanted to say was bravo for you, cos it can be frikken annoying when someone thinks they know Thailand better than Thai people, arrogance is such an UGLY quality.

So where are you living at the moment? The UK or BKK? If the UK what are you doing?

May 12, 2004 4:20 PM

Maurice Ravel says:

Most of the Thai music I hear sounds like it has rhythm but not much soul.

Are there any examples around that are good for making love to?, similar to Craig David, Simply Red, Dire Straits .... that sort of stuff.

May 13, 2004 11:54 PM

Mr Falang says:

Well Mr Peter - I am begining to understand why the peeps at thailand-uk.com have gotten fed up of ya.

Looking at your posts, I bet you were thrown off that site rather than you simply choosing not to post - hopefully you'll be booted out of her too!

May 14, 2004 12:11 AM

Vetman says:

Simply Red?

What's the difference between a water buffalo and Simply Red...

On a water buffalo the asshole's at the back.

May 21, 2004 8:47 PM

mr peter says:

I don't see whats wrong with posting about thai country music on a thread started as such, if people think it's drivel why read it . OK I said I would not post further because nobody had added anything interesting, but hey only a fool never changes their mind. Did I see somebody said thai music has no soul, exactly right but that is string crap not the music which reflects the thai soul.
Anyway onto the interesting part, went to Copnhagen at the weekend just to see Jintara perform in concert. Had not been to Copenhagen for 30 years and it was just as nice as I remembered it- a very civilised place and the Danes are such lovely people.
Copenhagen seems to have quite a thai community judging by the amount that turned up. It was great just like being back in thailand, lots of thai restaurants and shops and even (i am told, an a go go of sorts).
She seems to have dropped singing fan ja and ma tami as much and sang a lot of morlam for a change. The ususal srum all through the event with everyone wanting photos taken with her, but thats part of thai musics charm, imagine trying to go back stage or sing along with the star at a beyonce or brtiney concert, you'd be out on you arse in no time.
She cried when she sang taam kao, a lamet to her fans, and it's not put on. Her new CD sa orn 9 is very good. She's the brightest star on the country scene.
Well go on the take the piss, it seems to give some a perverse enjoyment usually from people with nothing good to say about anything I notice.-peter

June 1, 2004 5:31 PM

Wolfgang says:

MR. PETER,

Have you seen this?

Once more Peter says that anything but morlam or luktong is not Thai music and has no merit because it merely apes the style of western music.

Absolute rubbish!

Music is a living art form, the greatest exponents of which are influenced by many styles, and adopt those influences to expand and grow. It is only the journeymen of music, those performers with no soul, who refuse to change. Afraid that if they tried something new their weaknesses would be exposed.

Two examples.

The Rolling Stones. They're English, so they should have stuck their fingers in their ears and droned out dirges about bringing in the harvest. Instead, they took American blues, and adapted it to suit them (oh, those wonderful days at the Crawdaddy!)

Further back; Mozart, Austrian. Should have written jaunty little songs about lonely goatherds. But no! He took an Italian style and wrote some of the world's greatest operas!

But, Peter, you no doubt look with disdain at these, and other, musical giants, because they merely aped foriegn styles. Well, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but by expressing it so often, you just demonstrate your ignorance of the arts in general, and music in particular.

Posted by NJW | May 23, 2004 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted on a different topic, But I'd be interested in your response.

June 1, 2004 6:39 PM

mr peter says:

I never respond to NJW-peter

June 1, 2004 6:43 PM

wolfgang says:

So you do not have any counter argument? You agree that you are talking crap?

June 2, 2004 3:16 PM

PETE TONG says:

Yeah, c'mon man, let's see ya shoot him down in flames!

June 2, 2004 8:57 PM

mr peter says:

I think that Not Just a Wanker is confusing musical styles with music which can be described as national music. I consider luktung and morlam to be national music whereas string is a sort of international pap sound. The Rolling Stones (yawn) were a bunch of middle class white kids who stole thier musical ideas from poor black american musicians without, as far as I know, ever paying them any royalties, Elvis did much the same early on in his career. Were the stones playing English music then? no they were an English bunch of untalented kids playing rythm and blues which was black american music. If a bunch of French kids today are singing that 'orrible rap stuff straight from detroit, but in French does that make it French music? I don't really care myself but not just a wanker seems to get in a flap about it just because I said I did not consider string music worthy enough to be called thai music as it's just a rehash of a western musical style sung in thai.
Mozart of course did write operas in a rococo style which I don't think he ever described as 'Austrian'-peter

June 2, 2004 10:13 PM

wolfgang says:

I think his point is that you cannot say that music, of whatever form, has no merit because it merely apes foriegn styles, as all music has influences, foriegn and domestic.. A point you have singularly failed to address.

The Rolling Stones, and particularly Keith Richards, have repeatedly acknowledged their debt to their influences.

Mozart most certainly did consider himself Austrian. Indeed he repeatedly begged his chief patron, the Emperor, to let him write operas in German.

Perhaps you could explain why your beloved Jintara uses musicians that play western instruments? Surely this means that her music is not Thai?

June 2, 2004 11:07 PM

NJW says:

I see Peter has decided that my initials stand for "Not Just a Wanker"

Hmmm, not just a wanker. Very true of me, old boy, but the same cannot be said of you!

June 2, 2004 11:49 PM

Khon Thai Ruplao? says:

MR PETER

You show that you know little about Thai and Thai music. You say music you like is Thai music you no like not Thai.

I say like what you want but don't say that what you not like is not Thai. When you do you say you know Thai better than Thai.

Khon Thai ruplao? MR PETER mai ruplao.

June 3, 2004 4:53 PM

mr peter says:

If you would like to email me in thai what you are trying to say I will get it translated, as it is it's mai khow jai i'm afraid-peter

June 3, 2004 8:21 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

Mr. Peter,

Wolfgang posted in English, did he not?

"I think his point is that you cannot say that music, of whatever form, has no merit because it merely apes foriegn styles, as all music has influences, foriegn and domestic.. A point you have singularly failed to address."
--Wolfgang, 2004

"There's no such thing as an original thought."
--Jorge Luis Borges 1899-1986

"I knew I should not find in any philosophy a single thought which had not passed through my own head, nor a single thought which had not passed through the heads of millions and millions of men before I was born; I knew I should not find a single original thought in any philosophy, and I knew I could not furnish one to the world myself, if I had five centuries to invent it in."
--Mark Twain 1835-1910

"There's no such thing as an original thought."
--Francis Bacon 1561-1626

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, 'Look! This is something new'? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time."
--God (via Solomon in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10) 950 B.C.

(nihil sub sole novum)

June 3, 2004 9:15 PM

mr peter says:

I was asking the thai gentleman to clarify his point. Obviously nothing is original or pure and everything influences other forms, did I ever say otherwise? My opinion is that string music is not fit to be described as 'thai' I am not disputing it's origins or influences. You would not say a bloke in Japan singing Elvis numbers was singing japanese music surely, or a white geezer in the UK belting out a Reggae number would not be singing English music would he? Sorry I do not have my dictionary of quotes by dead people at hand at the moment-peter

June 3, 2004 9:35 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

"I was asking the thai gentleman to clarify his point."

You're loads of fun, aren't you?

"You would not say a bloke in Japan singing Elvis numbers was singing japanese music surely, or a white geezer in the UK belting out a Reggae number would not be singing English music would he?"

I think that's a fair point.

"Sorry I do not have my dictionary of quotes by dead people at hand at the moment-peter"

But you do have your Guide to Being a Humorless Prig book at the ready.

(winky)

June 3, 2004 9:48 PM

mr peter says:

'But you do have your Guide to Being a Humorless Prig book at the ready'

I think you have started drinking rather early tonight TK, would that be humourless enough for you?-peter

June 3, 2004 9:55 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

No, that would be the faint rumblings of humor as your shell of ossified pomposity cracks open and a comic juggernaut emerges!

We're going to beat this thing, Peter!

(onward and upward)

June 3, 2004 10:01 PM

wolfgang says:

A Japanese guy belting out Elvis songs would be a Japanese guy belting out Elvis songs. A Japanese band singing rock and roll songs written in Japanese by a Japanese songwriter would be a Japanese band.

An English band singing reggae? Ever heard of UB40, Peter?

A Thai singer singing songs accompanied by musicians playing electric guitars etc. How would you classify that? The singer I have in mind is Jintara.

Quote;
"I see Peter has decided that my initials stand for "Not Just a Wanker"

Hmmm, not just a wanker. Very true of me, old boy, but the same cannot be said of you!

Posted by NJW | June 2, 2004 11:49 PM "

Hoist by your own petard, eh?

June 3, 2004 10:54 PM

Seamus says:

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! How much longer is this argument going to go on? 78 comments since May 6th and 90% of them personal attack and counter-attack.

Maybe an analogy would help clarify the debate. Take food, for example. In Thailand, McDonald's sells something called the Samurai Burger. Is it Thai food? It's made by Thai people from Thai ingredients and it's designed to appeal to the Thai palate. It must be Thai food, wouldn't you say?

If you found this thing in a McDonald's in Japan with similar ingredients but designed to appeal to the Japanese palate, you'd have to say it's Japanese food, right?

Now, where was I? I'm getting lost in my own argument. Anyway the point is, it would be ridiculous to say McDonald's sells ethnic food no matter where you find it, except perhaps in Des Plaines, Illinois.

Is it possible something similar is going on with music? Record companies identify a mass market, design a style of music to appeal to the native ear, hire some local talent and make a crap load of money. Is that what Mr. Peter is talking about? I don't know because I have no idea what the heck "string" is.

Looking at the other side of the coin and going back to the food analogy, what if you take a genuine Thai dish (not Jintara) and instead of doucing it with prik num blah you use Louisana Hot Sauce. Lo and behold, you've opened up a whole new world of culinary delight. Not to everyone's liking but you get the point.

One of the things I like most about Thai music is the innovation, the blending of musical influences. If you listen to luk thung you can't escape the accordion, a German instrument, the same accordion that shows up in Tejano, Zydeco, Irish, French and so on. It fits in beautifully with Thai music.

Or what about the guys in Surin back in the '80s when they attached electronic pick-ups to their fiddles and started cranking out that funky kantrum stuff. It's pure Thai (well, Khmer actually but who's arguing) yet it has all kinds of outside influence from reggae to soul, rap to country. It's not so long ago the same thing was happening in England. Remember Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span?

So for the love of Mike would you guys quit arguing about it and go listen to this great music. Who know's, maybe in time some of you expats with a musical gene might actually pick up an instrument and jam with your Thai brothers or brothers-in-law, as the case may be.

"Let the music keep our spirits high
Let the buildings keep our children dry
Let creation reveal it's secrets by and by
By and by
When the light that's lost within us reaches the sky"

June 4, 2004 7:42 AM

wolfgang says:

Which, Seamus, is exactly my point, only you've put it so much better than I could.

Even the artistes that Mr Peter admires so much use western instruments, the accordian from Germany, the violin from Italy, the guitar from Spain (I think).

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is if the music is any good, and that is all down to personal taste, as is all art.

What gets my goat is when people proclaim that something has no merit merely because they don't like it. They think they are demonstrating their knowledge and profundity, whereas all they're really demonstrating is their ignorance and arrogance. This is particularly true when they are pontificating on a foriegn culture and totally ignoring the views of people native to that culture, which is what I think Kohn Thai Ruplao was on about. As, I think, was Pik.

But, Mr. Peter didn't like their views, because they contradicted his "I say like what you want but don't say that what you not like is not Thai. When you do you say you know Thai better than Thai." said KTR, very true.

By the way, "Kohn Thai Ruplao" is a Carabao song, very rough translation would be "Are You Thai." As with many Carabao songs, it deals with the adverse effects of westernisation on Thailand. But, according to You Know Who, Carabao and their music are not Thai!

"you think you know Thai better than Thai people. You talk about what other Farang say. Why not talk about what Thai people say? Because you not know what Thai people say. " said Pik.

Very true.

June 4, 2004 3:43 PM

mr peter says:

Only just forced myself to see if anyone had added anything of interest-well not really just the usual fact twisting such as

' But, according to You Know Who, Carabao and their music are not Thai!

I have never said Carabao or his music was not thai, although in my first post I inadvertently lumped his music with string music which I later corrected. Songs for life is not string music, or perhaps you know better?

I am glad you quoted paranoid Pik:

'you think you know Thai better than Thai people. You talk about what other Farang say. Why not talk about what Thai people say? Because you not know what Thai people say. " said Pik.
Very true.'

I don't know better than thai people and am always more than happy to learn from them, but not when what they quote as facts are demonsterably wrong which they cannot then accept when corrected, and not when they cannot debate something without resorting to hysterics. I talked about falang and thai sources, how many thai sources do you want to hear? Iv'e got a quote from Ponsri Waranuch denouncing string as un thai and you cannot get much more of an authority on thai music that that. But it's just an opinion, I know what mine is-string music has no merit and if you don't like my opinion you are welcomed to listen to this racket -up to you.
When it comes to songs for life as a style it has not developed in the past 20 years and what started out as protest music has for many years just played safe. I cannot think of any real hard hitting carabao songs having a go at corrupt politicians, police or even higher up targets of injustice. Songs about a daft monk in korat, some old stone nicked from a buri ram temple or whining on about foreign influence's are not going to make the lot of the thai masses any better, just make our carabao a lot richer-peter

June 29, 2004 1:38 AM

Seamus says:

I've been busy updating the Monsoon-Country.org website recently, changing out the Thai music selections and adding a lot more Cambodian music.

I came across a song by the late Darky that I swear sounds a bit like Santana's "Black Magic Woman" (Peter Green's actually) and I was wondering what you guys might think. It's the first song on the home page and I've also linked to it on the name below, although I don't know if that will work. If not, try this

www.monsoon-country.org/sounds/Home01.wma

And I also added a Cambodian song that sounds like the old Leo Sayer hit "More Than I Can Say". Like most folk/traditional songs it starts off slow but once it gets going you can hear what I'm talking about. You can link to it at

www.monsoon-country.org/sounds/Home03.wma

I'd be interested in hearing what you think about these hybrid sounds.

July 6, 2004 6:05 AM

mr peter says:

The khmer stuff is something I wish I knew more about, some interesting sounds. Do you know what happened to that singer Touch? The last I could find was that she had been in Bumrungrad for months with a collapsed lung and on a vent, tragic.
Geoffs site is intersting but he still has some odd things there. In the morlam buyers guide he lists at least 6 who never sing morlam. He has changed a few things but still describes the master of thai music chalermpol Malekham as a 'Pop" singer for some reason. Also he has no time for Siriorm Ampaipong and Tai Oranthai. Tai only has two CD's out and niether are morlam. Siriporn has never recorded one morlam song since being with Grammy. He lists Yui Yatt Yerr on the morlam list because she did make two pretty bad CD's entitled Issan melody, but she always has been a luktung singer. -peter

July 6, 2004 6:43 PM

mr peter says:

I think it takes a bit of imagination to hear black magic woman in the first one. I like the khmer one, seems to be a popular song which I have heard a few singing. Banyyen Raggen has a few latin numbers which she sings, things like quanta la mera. Maybe she picked these up when she lived the the USA, not sure. -peter

July 6, 2004 7:02 PM

mr peter says:

A disappointing response then Seamus, maybe all those who claim to love SEA and it's culture so much narrow this down to tarts, singha beer and eating in muckdonalds along with the ocassional visit a Wat. Had you have asked opinions on tata Youngs tits you would have had a few comments no doubt, pearls before the swine I fear-peter

July 7, 2004 5:13 PM

Seamus says:

Actually, the response has been very encouraging, considering the number of hits on the website yesterday. I think a lot of people really do enjoy this music but they don't feel compelled to discuss or comment on it.

You mentioned that Banyen Raggen lived in the States and has dabbled in Latin music. Very interesting. But it would be more interesting to hear some examples of this.

Could I make a suggestion to you? For a very modest monthly fee you could set up your own website where you could showcase all of this great music. It's very easy to do and I think you would do more to promote Morlam and Lukthung than all the postings on discussion forums. I know if I was sitting on your record collection I would do it. Hey, what am I talking about! I've already done it.

www.monsoon-country.org

PS: How do you like the new look?

July 7, 2004 7:25 PM

mr peter says:

I might get round to it but there are copyright problems to consider if done legally. Not so much with text, everyone seems to borrow from each other there but on the MP3 side. Iv'e got plenty of my own pics so that would be alright. I might have a spare Banyen CD with that stuff on as I remember losing the CD case and having to buy the CD again. I'll have a look.-peter

July 7, 2004 10:18 PM

Get a Life says:

My God! There's enough crap here to fill up Pseuds Corner for the rest of the century. And most of it coming from one source.

Despite all his outpourings, he has completely ignored the challenging questions, and concentrated on blowing his own trumpet, and insulting those who won't acknowledge him as their musical guru, especially the Thai contributers. I think we all know to whom I am referring.

Music is for listening to and enjoying, not for analysing and pontificating on. Get a life you people!

BTW, I think Fly is good, but I am not going to waste my time pretending to be an intellectual by boring you all with his life story, discography, shoe size etc.

July 12, 2004 11:03 PM

mr peter says:

Thanks for adding to the crap, pity you do not want to express an opinion on, or share some knowledge of thai music though.-peter

July 12, 2004 11:58 PM

wilbur says:

If anybody is ever in Pattaya, check out the guitar wizardry of a guy who calls himself "Lam Morrison". He is pretty well known amongst the senior generation of Thai rock fans, and toured Thailand extensively, including working a stint with Carabou.

Last I knew he had a beerbar on Pattaya Second Rd. opposite Big C Festival Center, Pattaya Nua. He also appears regularly at Blues Factory, halfway down the pedestiran alley known as "Soi Lucky Star" off Walking Street (the section of Pattaya Beach Road that's closed to vehicular traffic at night), South Pattaya.

A really fine guitar player along the lines of Joe Satriani, he often opens his set with a real nice solo guitar rendition of "Somwhere Over the Rainbow". His set is a mix of classic rock including Santana, Doors, and Lynyrd Skynyrd, as well as various blues, all done with a remarkable authenticity and respect for the original. He's not above some fun, however, and is well known for using a half-full beer as a slide, beer sloshing out all over as he plays another wild-eyed country-side-of-hell guitar lick. Buy the band a round and it's, "Hey! Thanks for the monkey Juice!"

If you're a fan of electric guitar artistry, definitely find this guy. You won't be disappointed.

July 13, 2004 10:05 AM

wilbur says:

'scuse the misspelling of "Carabao" in the above post.

July 13, 2004 10:26 AM

pmr peter says:

Thanks wilbur thats more like it, although not my cup of tea a good bit of information for anyone visiting pattaya. -peter

July 13, 2004 2:47 PM

zed says:

remember when Lam Morrison played at some real small joint right behind the big tree next to the marine bar ?

what was the name of that place ?

this woulda been about 1982/3ish ?

thru the haze i remember him playing with his teeth ala hendrix.

great stuff !

July 13, 2004 4:17 PM

Get a Life says:

Thanks, Wilbur, I'll certainly check him out next time I'm in Pattaya. Zed, would that be a purple haze? 555555!

I remember about 5 years ago seeing a guy play in a bar at the top end of Sukhumvit Soi 19. Can't remember the name of the bar, or the name of the band, but this guy was also good. Played a bit like Sonny Black (a blues guitarist who played the pub circuit round South London a few years back).

Apart from his playing, all I remember is that he had a passing resemblance to Ad from Carabao, which he unfortunately chose to exploit by dressing like Ad, right down to the bandanna. I say unfortunate as this guy could play a lot better than Ad!

Also unfortunate that most of the (Farang) patrons just wanted the band to play the latest pop hits so they could dance with the tarts. And Hotel California, of course! Is it compulsory? I used to like that song, now when I hear those opening chords I'm straight out the door.

Note to Mr. Peter: This is what this thread should be about, people saying what they like, and recommending bands and artistes and where to see them. Not your pontificating and attempts to show us all how scholarly and clever you are.

July 13, 2004 10:02 PM

Ronin says:

Zed:

That was "Saloon Bar". I used to jam a bit with Lam and The Olarn Project there. Then Pong went on to do the Hin Lek Fai thing. Cool guys. Great times. Those were the days... and quite a haze there was indeed...

p.s.: ever catch T-Bone at Woodstock?

July 14, 2004 1:34 AM

zed says:

the "Saloon Bar" ...that's right ! you could hear the music from the Wandee Inn Pool ! (remember that?)

that "haze" may have been the product of one-too-many visits to the old Cafe Ole' and the wonderful cookies i used to get there.

i don't get down to pattaya much anymore but man i used to have some fun there.

i'll tell ya tho....recently i've spent a bit of time at Mojo's on Soi 33 in Bangkok. maybe it was the Heiniken, but i liked what i heard.

July 14, 2004 9:23 AM

mr peter says:

I see Sek Loso is appearing in london on wednesday see:
http://www.meanfiddler.com/displayPage.asp?ArticleID=722&URLID=26

Not my cup of tea of course but considerably better than Ad Carabao and his 'prostest' music. He seems more interested in promoting his sugary energy drink these days than prostesting about anything. Seems the original Loso band broke up.-peter

July 18, 2004 5:04 PM

lucien says:

i hate your website.

August 12, 2004 9:52 AM

mr peter says:

why waste time posting on it then you twat-peter

August 12, 2004 1:22 PM

Seamus says:

I think he or she may be talking about the Monsoon-Country website.

August 13, 2004 7:31 AM

Dana says:

Christ in Potato-Land it's Seamus. Get the Irish Music post night vision goggles so that you can see them coming. Decide what family members you are going to take with you. It's time to flee.

August 13, 2004 9:38 AM

Seamus says:

Dana, we could talk about Irish music, I suppose, but I'd much rather talk about Thai music. I just got a new VCD that I'll be putting on the website soon but I wanted to give you guys a preview.

The music is from Southern Thailand and sounds totally different than anything I've heard before. It's labeled "Arab-Malay" and indeed it does sound arabic but with Thai script karaoke. See if you can download this song:

www.monsoon-country.org/sounds/Thai13.wma

Or this one:

www.monsoon-country.org/sounds/Thai14.wma

Finally, here's the world-music hit from a few years back, "Lambada". From Thailand, no less!

www.monsoon-country.org/sounds/Lambada.wma

Great stuff, don't you think?

August 21, 2004 9:45 AM

Dana says:

Actually Seamus I love Thai music and it is one of the most engaging parts of the Thai experience for me. I wish I could figure out how to make my computer make sounds--I would love to play the music on the Thai music sites you have been talking about.

August 21, 2004 10:18 AM

Seamus says:

Dana, I think most PCs nowadays can play music. If you have a very old one, now is the time to upgrade so you can listen to the Thai, Lao, Cambodian and Vietnamese music on Monsoon-Country.org!

Seriously, it's a whole new world when you can play music, news video clips and radio from around the world. You'll never watch the telly again. Good luck!

August 21, 2004 10:40 AM

Dana says:

Well I pulled up the Monsoon site but I can't get sound. I've got Windows XP but I just can't do any of this stuff. Couldn't even get AOL Radio to make noise. I just give up. Too bad. I would love to listen to SE Asian music.

August 21, 2004 11:17 AM

mr peter says:

'I think he or she may be talking about the Monsoon-Country website'

Surely not possible, how could anyone hate that?
Seamus it's no good trying help Dana with pc stuff, he cannot even get phones to work, I have some sympathy with him ewen though the lambada link plays automatically in XP. Seamus I have Banyyen singing this also, better too IMO from the same CD as the track I sent you. -peter

August 21, 2004 1:18 PM

Dana says:

If the lambada link plays automatically then I'm also six feet tall. . . just a minute let me check the mirror. . .

August 21, 2004 6:04 PM

mr peter says:

Anyone going to see the Divine Jintara in Euro land next week? I fancy Holland the alternatives being Germany and even worse France. Nothing wrong with France of course apart from the Frenchies.
On my last trip to LOS I was most impressed with the twin act Job and Joy, sex on legs and great morlam, what more could anyone ask for, these two are dynamite. Also Tai Orantai is very hot at present, two CD's into her career Grammy already released her third as 'greatest hits'. Her 2nd CD is on a par with Siriporns Parinya Jai Album and sounds like the same writers have been at work.
The blokes have a harder time of things, as a character said in the film Mon Rak Transistor to a wanabee male singer 'you have no ass and tits'. I must confes I don't pay as much attention as I should to the titless crooners. I must correct this next trip.-mr peter

January 15, 2005 4:33 AM

Sandy says:

Dear Mr Peter,

Thanks for some comments on the Thai music scene.

I am headed to LoS next week for the first time in a while and I wonder
if you or any of the other people in-the-know could point me in the right direction for a decent example of live, Thai-Issan or SE Asian music.

Been to the usual outdoor concerts, weddings, and interminable Kareoke parlours with would be pop stars crooning endless, drunken two toned "I love you, I miss my home" stuff. Whew..! Been to the teenie land RCA cattle halls, 1/2 western...1/2 eastern bar bands, trying to be all things to all people, and seen examples of local live music(a TBG took me there); it was okay but thankyou, no. A ringing assault on the ears, generally.

Know any venues that are low key and genuine? Nothing too specific, mind you - don't want to ruin it for others, but am looking for live music enjoyed by upscale locals, and could use somebodys advice to point me in the right direction.

Perhaps I'm looking for the Thai version of "Saxaphone," if there is a such a thing, assuming Tai Orantai is a pop singer. (?)

January 17, 2005 1:40 AM

mr peter says:

Greeting our Sandy

Forget pop is my advice, but up to you of course I cannot stand all that rak tur racket. Some places I recommend:

Take MRT to thai cultural centre stop for Tankay Issan exit 4 walk 50 yards past big shrimp sign then turn right past a load of chinese vases (in Nov) Tankay is straight ahead. It is under new mangement and much better, although more sparsely attended than another favourite called Issan tatwang deang, any taxi driver knows where that is, you could do two in one night. Another small cafe is cham Issan on the corner of Sukhumvit 105-quite a long way out. Up market there is Pra nam Khow cafe on rama 9 as the name suggests, again any driver knows this but often no singers here. The best cafes are on the other side of the river esp Krungton and Napali (two branches) there is also a large cafe near chat u chak whose name I forget and lots in the outer areas like samut prakan, bang na, rangsit etc-peter

January 17, 2005 2:09 AM

mr peter says:

My freind did have a lovely issan up market place on soi 23 a couple of years back but sadly it just never took off and there are now fewer and fewer places, lots of cafes large and small have closed. Big ones like villa and dara are long gone along with small ones like issan holiday and issan happy home. I know a few small ones near suk but but the singing is secondary to being a pick up place, ie new bride cafe etc etc-peter

January 17, 2005 2:15 AM

mr peter says:

If you would like to see the divine one she will be back on 26 for concerts I think see
www.jintarafanclub.com dates at bottom, there is really nothing like a concert outside, ask around for siriporn concerts or the mega nok noi ulraiporn ones, good luck-peter

January 17, 2005 2:23 AM

Sandy says:

Thankyou,

Apart from the information you gave I realize I should also start reading this thread from the top.

"I know a few small ones near suk but the singing is secondary to being a pick up place, ie new bride cafe.."

Exactly, there's a time for that as well, but now I'd like to impress my local cutie with local knowledge, take her some place more intimate. You know, the "Diamond Mike" sort of character.

And have heard several outdoor concerts; talk about melodically cognitive-dissonant. The volume/pitch levels make it difficult to keep that happy look on your face, unless you can see the irony in it. There's bound to be some great concerts, though I've yet to find them.

At least the Balinese Gamelung(sp?) is intentionally melodically discordant, and rythmically/percusionally fascinating.

I'll tell you more when I suss out some of those details. Cheers!

January 17, 2005 4:16 AM

wilbur says:

Sandy:

If your travels take you to Pattaya, try the Cham Naan Restaurant. I mentioned this in another thread some time back, but couldn't remember its name. It is on Thappraya Road just south of the Third Road overpass. It's a very well-known venue in Pattaya; any motorbike taxi driver should be able to bring you there straight away.

While Mr. Peter is certainly the unchallenged authority on this, one of my TGF's good friends loves Lao country music, and they go to Cham Naan because the GF says that the top-name acts (supa-satar!) go there. It also features good food, and a laid-back, friendly crowd. A bonus: You can chat with the talent between sets, and if you put one of them floral leis around his neck you can pose for a picture with the artist, often right during the set!

I'm sure that, once you find Cham Naan, somebody there can let you in on the other nooks and crannies to search in favor of indigenous Thai and Lao folk music. Happy hunting!

If you want to see current techno and hard-pop acts, try the Exzite disco, Second Road, about a mile south of Pattayaklang. They frequently have concerts featuring live performances by national Thai pop acts.

The downside of Exzite: It's a Thai disco (albeit an upscale one), with all the attendant annoyances (high prices, push waiters, those idiots who want to touch your back while you piss).

The upside: It's very popular with the top-drawer freelancers and stunners from the various go-gos who have that one night a month off, or who have just left their latest "conquest" snoring nekkid on his bed.

Good luck, and enjoy.

January 17, 2005 6:28 AM

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