I want our baby NOW!

Cynic says:

And I might add at this point she never asked me for any money!!!!

Mmmm.

This relationship will only work if JDMAN accepts that he will be buying a relationship/family. And as with most large purchases you will make in your lifetime, you must set out the terms and conditions of the contract explicitly and the seller must be aware of her obligations.

I don't think anything we could say could dissuade the fella but look at these ingredients and ask how anyone could think this will work:

1. She is an (allegedly ex-) bargirl
2. She lives far away
3. You don't see her for 48 weeks of the year
4. She loves to party
5. Her friends are mainly current or ex-prostitutes.
6. She is 24 years younger.
7. She is beautiful.
8. (Assumption) you are not capable of having a fluent conversation in either native tongue.
9. She has never asked for any money (WTF?)

Additionally:

My perception is that the notion of Thai women liking or even preferring older men is complete shite. Ask yourself why there are no Thai Sean Connery's or Richard Gere's or Harrison Ford's.

Male Thai movie star's have a limited use by date for a reason. This is a culture that equates beauty with youth. Most 23 year old women that I know in my country would be horrified by the notion of sex/relationship with an 18 or 19 year old, yet in Thailand many of these 23/24 yr old bargirls pay young boys to be their lovers.

This a country where 30 is considered old. You sometimes have to wonder if Thai bargirls have a conference each year where the agenda for bullshitting farangs is set.

TIMH says:

David,
I hardly know where to start. Rarely have read something so filled with bullshit stereotypes and misinformation. You should follow articles like these with a disclaimer that the facts have been significantly altered to increase the entertainment value and this should not be considered serious advice in any circumstances.

A few examples:

"I haven't researched the topic but I'm led to believe that the nationality of the declared father is a key issue in determining whether the child can be registered as a Thai citizen or not. You need to get some decent legal advice or your kids could end up as stateless people with a bleak future. "

The child will have dual citizenship if the proper legal procedures are followed. Not difficult.

[Your opinion would carry more weight if you explained what the ìproper legal proceduresî are - David]

"Once she's packed it off to live with her mother, she can carry on with her carefree life in Bangkok at your expense."

A very unfair generalization. All the mothers I know who do this have done it for economic reasons.

[How noble of them - David]

"The murder of farang husbands for cash is commonplace in Thailand and the perpetrators usually get away with it. "

This is the one that got me most. "Commonplace"? What does that mean? If it was commonplace don't think we would all know at least one guy that was knocked off by his wife? I don't know any, do you?

[Perhaps you were too busy to follow the link I gave - David]

"almost impossible obstacles faced by married couples who wish to relocate to the US, "

Where do you get this shit from? What obstacles? I know you are a pretty literate person, so surely filing in some forms correctly is not something you would consider impossible.

[I admire your misplaced confidence. Perhaps you should set yourself up as an immigration consultant or, better still, as a faith healer - David]

"every farang man new to Thailand makes the mistake of falling in love with a prostitute "

Every one? Come on now.

[Are you the odd one out, then? - David]

sniffer says:

This is typical stickman stuff; boring to read there after the fiftieth similar post, and a bit out of place here. Good luck to the fellah, though, as long as he goes into it with his eyes open. Better a few years as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb (to quote Moloko quoting someone else). He's 52; got a good ten years or so of virility left. As long as she doesn't completely fleece him when she walks out, he'll have had a riotous experience and won't have much trouble finding a maybe slightly older model to take her place

Blue says:

What have you done now David? Are you trying to compete with Mrs. Stickman?
================================
... have supported my girlfriend for about two years now. She says that she hasn't been working the bars but I know that she still parties a lot (goes to the full moon party occasionally, tells me about outings to play pool, go bowling, karaoke, movies, get drunk with her "girlfriends" who are all ex-bar girls as best I can tell, etc.) I know Thai people like "sanook" and I can't expect her to not go out and occasionally get laid at her young age...
=================================
Hyuk! Hyuk!

Dear Abby,
oops! I mean dear David,
She also likes to leave the toilet lid up after finishing. Do you think she is really a man peeing standing up?
JDMAN

JDMAN says:

Apologies to Sniffer and Blue. Not a lot of yucks in this one or its thread. I'm new to this site and haven't seen stickman yet. Sorry to bore you. I needed some 'hard love' so to speak from you guys because of your unique perspective (thanks David and Cynic). This luv-sick puppy needed a good swat on the nose. However, I'm very curious about TIMH who sounds like he has a legal bend to him or knows who to talk to. I'd like contact into for a farang lawyer who works in BBK and can be trusted in such matters. Booze and entertainment in BBK will be on me if this wet dream cums to pass. More later.

foolwholaughsatdeath says:

some info for you jdman:

1. If the child is born in thailand to a thai mother, he/she will receive a birth certificate which will give it thai citizenship. You will then need to take the child and the birth certificate to the American embassy and get a Consular Report of a Birth Abroad. You can also apply for a passport and social security number for the child at the same time. The child will have duel citizenship until age 18, at which time they must choose one or the other.

2. To my knowledge (but i haven't investigated fully) there is almost no way to get your girl over without a K-1 (fiance) or K-3 (wife) visa. and both of those visas take about 8 months or longer to process. Another way would be to get her a work visa, but she would have to demonstrate a specific work skill which was in demand in the USA (nursing, tech related) and an employer would have to facillatate visa process for her - This doesn't sound like a likely option for her.

3. if i were you, i'd retire over here (it's a great place to live, even on a fraction of your budget) and take things slowly with the girl. If I were you i wouldn't get involved with an ex-bargirl, I'd try to find a nice girl. You've only been here a few weeks a year and can hardly say you know her real personality or motivations. There are plenty of nice girls here who are gorgeous too, and will make you plenty happy and do not have the personality disorders the girls pick up in the bars (cheating, lying, scheming). The Mia Noy (minor wife) is also a common occurance here, so you could always have yourself a nice girl for a wife, and keep your ex-bargirl as a sextoy.

I also know of an american visa lawyer working in BKK, so shoot me an email if you want his #. But, really you can fill out those forms yourself and save a ton of money.

TANAI KWAI says:

"Mia Noy (minor wife) is also a common occurance here, so you could always have yourself a nice girl for a wife, and keep your ex-bargirl as a sextoy."

I'd love to know how many of you gents are faithful to your Thai wives or TGFs -- or does that entirely defeat the point of living in LOS? And if not, do you have an understanding or is it totally on the sly?

(an enduring question)

Farangutang says:

Tanai Kwai: You post too often. You always change the subject. You are annoying and your over-use of big words implys you have a small penis.

Royal Troon says:

This pullulates with downside risk.

You are a fool if you proceed down this path.

"Abandon all hope, you who enter here."
Dante

moss man says:

Some of my friends keep their honeys on their toes by hiring a cleaning lady/girl who either works several times a week, or as a "live in." The seriousness of their relationship, or marriage, sets the rules for hiring female staff. In other words it's normal to employ and house female staff, but usually only if she's not as pretty or prettier than his girlfriend/wife. Then again, if she is a temptation...

TANAI KWAI says:

Farangutan:

Funny, your name rings a bell because you post with some frequency, still I don't remember a single thing you've ever said in any of your posts.

But remembering you won't be a problem in the future: when I see your name I'll know you're the nice man who wants to discuss my penis.

(...)

tonychang says:

Tania
I'll give you a crisp fiver if you dont reply to this post.

TANAI KWAI says:

I couldn't live with myself if I made you part with a couple hours' wages like that, Tony.

(can I have fries with that?)

Steve says:

Ur making a big mistake getting into a serious relationship with this girl- you're setting your self up to get burned... If you just wanna mess around then go for it. Anything else and you'll regret it.

Does getting into a relationship with an "ex"prostitute who's 30+ years younger, from a foreign country, poor, and speaks a language you can't understand really sound like a good idea? I don't think so.

tonychang says:

how about a bunch of fives then?

TANAI KWAI says:

Tony,

Point taken. Apologies if my comments rankle or bore you. I'll try harder to be a credit to my race.

JD*MAN,

The following would be highly, highly, HIGHLY instructive:

www.stephenleather.com/unpub.html

There are some passages that are so on point it's painful. See David's post of September 30, 2003 for an introduction.

(...)

*Is it "JD" as in Juris Doctor? You sure sound like a typical, successful, well-compensated U.S. lawyer -- expert at resolving the problems of others but suffering from a blind spot or two when it comes to your own life. I applaud you for seeking counsel in an unfamiliar situation.

Tracey Emin says:

Yeah, JDMan read 'Private Dancer'.

Every farang thinks "my one is different".

Keep your head screwed on & your bank balance SECRET!

JDMAN says:

First to Steve since that was sort of a kick in the gonads. 24 years younger PLEASE not 30+! And she is almost 30 which in Thailand means she is "old" and has to worry about drying up in the competitive full contact sport of hooking. I know friends that are still doing very well in their mid-70's...drinking half a bottle of booze, charming the juice out of ladies half there age, and it doesn't even involve money. So IF it worked and I held up to the task, I might just have 20+ years of this girl's undivided attention before she even hits 50. That + kid(s) still sounds like a life.

I like the "Mia Noy" idea Foolwholaughsatdeath. Thanks for the legal opinion. I will email you.

MossMan's point....exactly. Can servants be paid enough extra to remain loyal little spies to the man of the house? I guess there is always the PI strategy as discussed in other posts.

RoyalToon, let me guess without the use of a dictionary. Is "pullulate" a procedure that involves the rectal mucosa so as to ease the zig-zag movement of the scope up the colon? There is an enzyme called "pullulanase" that degrades a sticky scum that oozes from wood as I recall. So I take it my wet dream sounds slippery at best.

Tonai Kwai (what does your name mean anyway?) you did sort of change the subject but an interesting question nonetheless for this crew to answer. I heard that cheating on your Thai wife can get you penis chopped off and fed to the local mut. Ouch.

Conclusion: If I want to get married again, the Mia noy strategy sounds like a good plan for my girlfriend. I doubt she would be very happy with me chasing 'good girls' to be my wife/mother of my kid but, who knows, it gives her more freedom to operate. However, as I made it pretty clear, I am looking for a non-marriage strategy to set up a household with THIS girl, have a kid with HER and not get burned too badly financially, physically, or emotionally. However, taking my time about diving into that with this girl seems to be the concensus.

Finally, since I can't retire to LOS until I'm 54 if I understand the new law, why not give the girl a baby and see how things go from a distance? Then co-habitate two years from now if it is still working? Any down side gang?

TIMH says:

JDMAN,
You can have fun here (and the stickman site) listening to the all BS about Thai women and BG's and how they will drain your finances dry and kill you for the last drop. It is great fun, but not the whole storey. For a somewhat more balanced view why don't you try http://board64.nanaplaza.com/login.php?Cat=. There are a number of guys there with Thai wives and GF, many of them ex-BG's. Certainly a much broader view then what you read here.

Go ahead and read Private Dancer, it is not a bad storey, but keep in mind it is a novel and after you do read it, think about if you would the do the stupid things he did? I would think that anyone that can work to point that his pension is US$200K a year (and after 2 divorces) probably is pretty financially savvy and has some basic common sense. You are certainly not some young Brit who has never been in a mature relationship (or even had a real job).

For good visa advice, both for Thailand and the US go to http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/. They also have some sponsors that can help you with legal advice in Thailand.
Just to give you 3 examples of misinformation you have received here:
1. To be eligible for retirement visa in Thailand you need to be 50 not 54. This was changed several years ago.
2. A dual citizen child does not have to choose which country at 18. They can remain a dual citizen their entire life.
3. If you establish residency in Thailand you can file the I-130 petition for US spousal visa (green card) in Thailand. Processing time is significantly less then what is quoted to you.

It sounds to me like you may (and I stress the may) have found someone to spend your retirement with. Don't throw it away because somebody on the Internet said all Thai BG's will steal you blind. For every case of that happening, I can quote one where it didn't.
TIMH

Madam Edith says:

I have an interest in a bar. I hear how the girls talk about their farang boyfriends overseas. Usually they have several who they write to and email regularly ('I love you, I miss you') and who of course send them money ('my grandmother sick too much'). When one of the boyfriends turn up the girl stops working ('I not work anymore') for the duration of his stay or they stop dancing and say 'I just work as hostess, I not go with customer anymore'. When the farang departs things return to as they were.

I am sure it happens but I have yet to see a relationship between a farang and a much younger Thai girl work. In every case I know of, the farang has come out of the relationship emotionally and financially bruised. This does not just apply to bargirls, the guy I know who got hurt the most was taken for a major ride by a secretary.

The more I look at JDMAN's original post, the more I think it is a wind up, but if it is not then he should take note of some of the comments above. However, if he wants to turn his current large fortune into a small one then he is on the right track

Royal Troon says:

Is it "JD" as in Juris Doctor?
________________________________

Yes, I'm sure he is a lawyer. He intends to have his bar girl reading Voltaire in "French." Afternoons will be devoted to the study of Kirtland's warbler. She will imperceptibly transmogrify into an international bon vivant.

Is he a lawyer? The vacuousness of that question is laughable.

In a court of law he would be found gulity of exhibiting one thing: stupidity.

Royal Troon

Cynic says:

JDMAN:

Re-evaluating my response, it came across a little harsh. Sometimes I forget that it's a real person who posts these threads. At the same time I find it hard to give "Yes Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus" type answers.

As I said, if you do enter a committed relationship with her you need to lay down rules and laws. Treat her with respect and affection by all means, but be strict with what you let her get away with. Remember, thanks to you she will be experiencing a much more affluent lifestyle. Don't necessarily expect gratitude, but require loyalty and duty.

This may sound hurtful, but I doubt this is a mutual romantic adventure. Your girl is probably more pragmatic than you realise, so you must match that pragmatism.

This is yet another poorly composed response, but realism (not pessimism or cynicism) will help you deal with the ups and downs immensely. There is no country in the world where men are magically transformed into superstars the minute the walk out the airport. There's only the poor and lazy and rich suckers with a need to be filled.

TANAI KWAI says:

Royal Douche,

Did it take you long to compose that? I hope not. When not handled by an Errant-class writer who makes it look easy those kinds of posts really stink on ice.

"Is he a lawyer? The vacuousness of that question is laughable."

This doesn't even make sense, and yet it is the central conceit of your trifling little interjection. What is so laughably "vacuous" about suggesting that he could be a lawyer? Have you ever met a lawyer? Do you imagine them to be intellectual giants of great cultural acumen? If so, you are not terribly perceptive and/or easily impressed.

"He intends to have his bar girl reading Voltaire in "French.""

What is "French"?

"She will imperceptibly transmogrify into an international bon vivant."

More faux-polish. I think you are trying to conjure up some suggestion of refinement but you aren't really pulling it off. Trust me.

"In a court of law he would be found gulity of exhibiting one thing: stupidity."

Wow.

(...)

TIMH says:

"I have yet to see a relationship between a farang and a much younger Thai girl work. "

Did it ever occur to you the reason you have never seen one work? The answer is in your own post:

"I have an interest in a bar. "

When a realtionship is working, you never see either of them again.

TIMH

TIMH says:

"you need to lay down rules and laws. Treat her with respect and affection by all means, but be strict with what you let her get away with."

Sounds like the advice given for raising a teenager, not an equal in a relationship.
No wonder you guys have such successful relationships with Thai women.
TH

Cynic says:

TIMH

Tell me how a fifty two year old high earning Farang professional and a 28 yr old Bangkok prostitute can be equals in a relationship???

BTW I don't believe REAL equality is possible in a relationship. Women are an oppressed people, oppressed people do not react well to being treated equally. Lets compare them to the Indian's. Treat an Indian with respect and courtesy and he will treat you like shit, treat him like he is inferior and he will lick your boots!

LOL I know I'll get burned for that last paragraph - I just can't express my controversial views eloquently anymore.

I would see that treating your ex-BG GF as an equal is courting disaster.

Anonymous says:

"I just can't express my controversial views eloquently anymore."

LOL. You don't need to express yourself. All anyone would need to do to understand you is read any 19th century British justification for the Empire.
TH

Cynic says:

Despite all the hatred I, in my youth, manifested towards the British for their historical sins against 'my people', I'm starting to believe that the world does operate on a 'top dog' mentality. The only problem for us from the 'enlightened' West is that we obscure the reality with romanticism and idealism.

For reference, I recommend the brilliant but flawed book "The Lucifer Principle" by Howard Bloom.

PS Sorry about all the inverted comma's, I really fucking hate when they are overused.

Madam Edith says:

TIMH

I may have an interest in a bar but I also have a full time job, a wide circle of Thai and farang friends and have been here nine years. Most of the relationships that I have seen fail have been betweeen old farangs and Thai girls who were not bar girls.

As for bar girls when they do hook a farang they do not disappear, they often return to show off their new found wealth to the other girls. That is until it all falls apart, the girl returns to work and the guy is crying into his beer.

I have seen farang/Thai reationships work between people of a similar age (usually 40+) but not between an old farang and a young girl. I am sure there are relationships like this that work I just have not seen them. I can only write as I find.

Ox says:

David - I think I am the odd one out when it comes to new farang falling in love with bargirls...no, wait, mine wasn't a bar girl but she did 'sell' her sex to a business man when she became his 'personal assistance'. She didnt set out to do this, though, to be fair to her. Such is life.

JDMAN - The fact you have so many unsures and so many questions points to one answer only :

YOU HAVEN'T KNOWN HER LONG OR WELL ENOUGH YET.

(does that make grammatical sense?)

You need to live in her country, with her, for a good time yet before you take the relationship any further.

Royal Trron says:

Tanai Kwai (Little Man Syndrome)

"Is it "JD" as in Juris Doctor? You sure sound like a typical, successful, well-compensated U.S. lawyer"

The "typical" lawyer is not successful or well -compensated. Some lawyers make a lot of money.
Most lawyers make less than 50,000 USD per year.

My comment was hyperbolic.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

The Judge says:

Congratulations to Tim H.

You have taken the title previously held (in thius order) by John U, Mr Peter and Greg of most self opinionated, arrogant, egocentric contributor. please don't post again.

mr peter says:

Can someone point out some of the 'judge's' interesting posts?, as usual cannot seem to find any.
Tracey, you seem to have a fixaton with private dancer, you don't seem to be aware that it's a work of fiction, not fact.-mr peter

TANAI KWAI says:

Royal Poon,

"The "typical" lawyer is not successful or well -compensated. Some lawyers make a lot of money.
Most lawyers make less than 50,000 USD per year."

Are you so daft as to have earnestly mistaken my meaning? Having been a lawyer for a decade (big deal) I don't merely pretend to know about the daunting world of lawyers as you do.

"My comment was hyperbolic."

No, your comment was idiotic. You called a reasonable question "laughably vacuous" in the service of your dumb gag.

In the future, think of a point first, THEN see if anything amusing should trickle out of it.

(...)

Royal troon says:

At least your comments are vacuous.

Don't you have something on the docket?

You sound dissipated. Is one of your legal eagles balling your wife?

Cog says:

The last time I saw THIS many 'red flags', it was in Beijing!

Primarily taking into account how the facts are laid out and JDMan's willingness to have his cock bled dry, I can't help but wonder whether there's already a child in the woodworks -- there's a world of difference between obligation and blind passion.

It seems to me like JDMan has already made the conscious decision of venturing across unchartered waters knowing full well that perils abound. I say, let the fool go on his journey. Personally, I don't envy anyone undertaking this sort of misguided adventure; I prefer fucking to being fucked! If by miracle the relationship does work out, then I'll count it as joy of not having to witness the splattered remnants of another falang committing sepukku from a Thai highrise.

BTW, here'a an update for Khun JDMan from your friendly Thai PI Office (sponsored by Siam whitening cream): Your GF's nephew, who she is nobly raising, is probably her own kid. Beware of multiple leeches.

=================================
A Leech's Kiss
Along with an anticoagulant called hirudin, the leech's saliva also secretes a local anesthetic that renders its bite undetectable by the host.
=================================

Gimpy1 says:

You know, it would nice just once to read a line of threads without having to listen to a half a dozen farts coming out of Tanai Kwai's mouth.

Just once dude or dudette, (with a name like Tania who can tell), shut the fuck up. Go pick up a bar girl or lady boy, somthing, anything. But just once, please, don't feel the need to personally respond to every single post in every single thread.

TANAI KWAI says:

GIMPY1,

Still an asshole, huh?

Your comments on May 30, 2004 speak eloquently to your vision for this site. Sorry I can't help you out.

(...)

John U says:

Judge,

"You have taken the title previously held (in thius order) John U, Mr Peter and Greg of most self opinionated, arrogant, egocentric contributor"

I challenge you to find any comment I made to contain any of the "qualities" you mention.

And anyway, why the fuck didn't you include Tanai? I should think he's feeling a little hurt.

I remember another person saying I was opinionated, and he kept dishing out loads of opinions, while I pointed out that over all my postings I had only ever given two opinions. Are you the same guy?

I have a suspicion that you are the dreaded schizo, and I have a feeling I know who you are now Mr. Schizo.

Have we tangled before on Stick's site. Are you indeed that shite bag Levian? Just because you made yourself look a cunt you keep trying to put one over on me to get your own back? Well remember pal, you gave me the ammunition.

(If it is you - levianservices)

Bagwan says:

This thread was initiated on the subject of a lady wanting to have a baby. It has degenerated into vicious exchanges between apparent adults acting like babies.
Bringing a child into this fucked up world is a serious undertaking, not to be initiated lightly. It should, repeat should, be on the understanding that you are making a total commitment for at least the next 18 years or so to both the mother and child. I would suggest that adding to this overcrowded world be postponed until an lasting relationship is assured. Six visits over two years would not seem to indicate that this has been achieved. My response at this stage to "I want a baby" would be "Is that fried or boiled."

JDMAN says:

OK. I feel honored by such attention to my crisis. Thanks boys and whatever.

No, my BG does not have a bun in the oven. I kind of wish she did after all this because we could go on to "Story of JDMAN chapter 2". Better would be to flip to chapter 30 and tell you that BG and I had a perfect life for the last 20 years and I was just joshing; yup my BG wife and I just hugged our first grandkid and he had fucking blue blue eyes against all genetic odds!!!!!

Alas, that pipe dream is also not true. My original letter is honest and I am increasing sure I am fucked. Seriously screwed. Yes, you are correct guys. I am a pathetic fool to love this girl. I sincerely hope that TIMH is the man on point here with the experience and perspective to offer me hope. But the odds are against me for sure. Being a punter now and then I do respect odds.

In regard to Madam Edith...this relationship is far from end game. I love this girl and she doesn't have to be the best con-artist in the world to fool a fool in love. But you are right, I do have enuff of a knack with the moola that she will not steal me lock stock and barrel. My heart is in her pocket so I better be careful. But that keeps me on my toes because that was the first and second thing that happened in marriage 1 and 2. Three strikes you are out and that means the pavement in Pattaya in this case.

Please keep the constructive comments coming even if they are just u-all weighing in on how big an idiot I am. I need this or an alternative strategy.

Royal Troon says:

"Is that fried or boiled."
Bagwan
________________________________-

It is half-baked.

JDMAN is ebullient that an uneducated bar girl half his age is tumescent about him. Eviscerated financially 2X he is ready for round three. That is, if we are to believe he is who he says he is.

I have a passive five figure monthly income. I certainly would not willingly go to the LOS to squander it with a beguiling, immoral opportunist that lies inveterately. Subterfuge and mendacity rule the day. The specter of knocking her up is inconceivable to anyone with a pulse.

Some people learn through PAIN.

Royal Troon

TANAI KWAI says:

Our beautiful English language defiled through such misuse...

Is this a put-on Royal Troon? Please say it is... Please?

(...)

Royal Troon says:

Twit kwai

"Is this a put-on Royal Troon? Please say it is... Please?"

Still nothing on the docket?

I bet you are part-time at Starbuck's.

Royal Troon

Royal Troon says:

Twit Kwai

Do you consider "gook" a pejorative?

Royal Troon

JDMAN says:

I don't care a hoot about the grammatical and (Sp) errors if I understand the point. I get Toon's point deeply in the ribs. More bleeding. However, TW I feel your pain too. I suspect it is a ethanol induced need to spell phonetically and blow off accuracy on Toon's part. I've been there. Frequently. And, I can't type to boot.

For those who are curious, I am not a Juris Doctor but I am a 'doctor' and not of law. So we can end that thread but feel free to attack the 'amerikan' health system that generated enough personal wealth to survive two failed marrigaes. But that doctor thingy has also reulted in me being all too eligible in my own country and therefore I am highly suspect of new sweethearts lining up to catch me on the rebound. The BG assessment of my worth as a partner is more honest because it is based not only on cash flow (com'on $6000 in two years....I would have been hit up for the BMW by now here) but also on other factors. I'm not a pig and I treat her with kindness and respect. Western girls will like the cash but also the status defined by spouse's employment. That makes their intentions more suspect the way I see it. If rich farang is statusenough in LOS, then I am a good catch? I think I should be careful because I'm about to be gutted like most fish.

Royal Troon says:

I am typing at "break neck" speed between clients and Twit kwai is obsessing about modern American usage.

Most of my friends are lawyers. I understand they are obsessive control freaks. Occasionally, you just have to tell them to "shut the fuck up." My girlfriend is a lawyer. I still respect her.

Royal Troon

TIMH says:

Well, haven't you all been having fun.

Ms Edith,
My experience is much different then yours as the Thai-Farang couples I tend to see live together and don't live in Thailand (nor the Farang's home country).
I know several that have lasted for many years (including mine at 5 years with a 25 year difference, and going very well, thank you).
I don't think we have a any real disagreement, just different perspectives.

"most self opinionated, arrogant, egocentric contributor. please don't post again."
Judge,
Your constructive contributions are always appreciated. You may post as much as you want.

"I have a passive five figure monthly income. I certainly would not willingly go to the LOS to squander it with a beguiling, immoral opportunist that lies inveterately."
Troon,
Your prejudgement of people you don"t even know (or even take the time to try) pretty well assures that you will die a lonely old man spending his last days counting his money. I have a vision of the police breaking into your house after the neighbour complained of the smell, finding you slumped over desk where you died while balancing your checkbook.

And finally, JDMan,
A relationship with a women much younger then you, from a culture and environment so different from yours you will really never be able to fully comprehend it, is a continuous challenge. It requires commitment, patience, understanding, patience, communication, patience, and communication, commitment - anyway you get what I mean,
The thing to remember is she is a grown woman, with whom you have virtually nothing in common with except the sex at this point. Her life experience is totally different then yours. Your points of reference for how people react are useless, you have learn new ones. If you keep this in mind, listen very carefully to what she says (and what she doesn't say), avoid losing your temper, and be fully supportive you stand a chance.
It is never dull.
You notice I have not addressed the money issue, that is because, to me,it is not an issue. Use your common sense.
TH

John U says:

JDMAN,

I am very similar to you.

Retired, good pension, met a bar girl, and she really attracted me.

Trouble is when you are really attracted you are blinkered to her feelings for you. Like you, I have been through a couple of farang relationships, so can't help being wary.

After a few years of giving and waiting for a suitable response I gave up. After all we are not getting any younger.

I am now told she is actually a lesbian!!!!!!

What can you do? You can only go with your feelings and hope. Obviously you are being careful, like I was, and bail out when you know she doesn't love you.

It takes time, and unfortunately that is exactly what we are running out of.

Royal Troon says:

"No man is free who is a slave to the flesh."
Seneca

It is time to raise the bar JD.

What you are seeking is seeking you.

Everything in this life boomerangs.

If you want a "perfect love" you must give a perfect love.

How many times are you willing to compromise yourself.

Do you want to be shipwrecked?

John U says:

Yes Mr. Levian,

I think we may get some silence from the schizo from now on. If he keeps on I'll publish his email address and he won't like that much.

Why didn't I think of this before? It was obvious that he really wanted to have a go at me.

I know, I'm no Sherlock Homes, but it did dawn on me eventually.

Fuck off Levian. Go back to reading Stickman.

Royal Troon says:

And finally, JDMan,
"A relationship with a women much younger then you, from a culture and environment so different from yours you will really never be able to fully comprehend it, is a continuous challenge. It requires commitment, patience, understanding, patience, communication, patience, and communication, commitment"
TIMH

JD, this is the best advice you will ever receive.
Troon

kelake says:

I think you should go for it. Enjoy loving her. Live your life as you see fit and feel something for someone. Life would be so boring if we didn't take risks. She may hurt you, I'm sure you realise that, but that is part of life too.

I would only suggest you create a set of principles that you never waver from no matter what the circumstances. A set of principles that help guard you from not being able to financially support yourself in the future.

Mine are very simple. I never give money to girlfriends. All the women I have been with have been financially independent and were able to look after themselves long before I came into the picture. I'm not old school nor do I want to be someone's 'daddy'. When living together we split expenses.

To counter my first paragraph, wouldn't you rather find a partner to spend your retirement days with where the situation didn't dictate a certain pragmatism? An intellectual equal, a person who would really respect you for who you are and not the fact that you are a means to a better life?

I am sure she likes you and is a wonderful lover. I think it would be better to spend my life with someone who doesn't consider me a 'super long time'. Fucking is great, and I am sure this goes against nearly every man living in Thailand's beliefs, but there is more to a rewarding relationship than fucking.

Cynic says:

Do you also not shout (i.e. pay for) your friends?

I think there's a difference between sharing everything (financially) with someone you love AND WHO LOVES YOU, and the kind of situation where the 'love' is conditional upon payment.

Maybe I have that attitude 'cause I've never really had any money so I've never really had much to lose financially from a relationship. But I find it vulgar when lovers split bills, when friends invite you out for a party or bbq and expect you to pay your share.

TANAI KWAI says:

Royal Loon,

"I am typing at "break neck" speed between clients..."

Sure you are.

"Twit kwai is obsessing about modern American usage."

Ri-i-ight... That's why you've been waving your arms at me for hours -- because I'm obsessed with you.

Recall that you attacked me, calling me "vacuous." As a general matter I don't comment on a person's diction. But in your case, your entire approach is to put on airs of sophistication and worldliness, often using words whose meanings you only faintly seem to know. I pointed out that your posts are a big bag of nothing and that stung you. Still does, evidently. Why not just be yourself? We are a bunch of strangers here.

Kelake,

"To counter my first paragraph, wouldn't you rather find a partner to spend your retirement days with where the situation didn't dictate a certain pragmatism? An intellectual equal, a person who would really respect you for who you are and not the fact that you are a means to a better life?"

I fully agree this should be a consideration for many men -- one that naturally gets short shrift since those days might seem a ways off.

(...)

THE TRUTH says:

Cynic

you quoted
BTW I don't believe REAL equality is possible in a relationship. Women are an oppressed people, oppressed people do not react well to being treated equally. Lets compare them to the Indian's. Treat an Indian with respect and courtesy and he will treat you like shit, treat him like he is inferior and he will lick your boots!

LOL I know I'll get burned for that last paragraph - I just can't express my controversial views eloquently anymore.

I would see that treating your ex-BG GF as an equal is courting disaster.

unquote

Whilst it is inaccurate to compare and label all women as oppressed people, i share your comments with regards the BGs being treated as equal being wrong.

HOWEVER I cannot but agree more with you on the comments with regards to the Indians. Thus the saying goes "dogs must be taught and placed in their rightful position."

mossman says:

JDMan should go for it, as most of us would have, or certainly would like to, given his circumstances. It's illuminating to have all these "pros" weigh in on someone elses potential downfall with such a gorgeous TG(even more revealing how many quibble over irrelevant nuances, but...) It's probable many of us have shared a similar script with only subtle changes in the scenery roll. (Speaking for mossman, I wanted to fall in love, after many years of BG's, found a gorgeous 9-5 career girl, then couldn't be serious enough with the knowledge of what else was out there) There's lots of good advice here, great entertainment, but really, being a confirmed cynic and having a lasting love life don't mix well. JDMan thinks he wants to give it a go; hopefully he'll have some decent memories (worse case:fantasies). Even if he does get burned it'd be better than not trying.
Timh's comment: "it requires patience, commitment, patience...." is accurate. The real fruit is out at the end of the branches, if you last that long.

Gimpy1 says:

Tania,

See I told you. You couldn't just once not respond to a comment. Always have to get the last word in no matter what. Like the other guy said, "part time at Starbucks."

Royal Troon says:

Recall that you attacked me, calling me "vacuous."
Twit Kwai

I want to apologize.

I'm sorry for breaching our confidentiality agreement. I am sorry for discussing your wife and her intractable vaginal odor problem. I realize it has been refractory to treatment. I can only imagine how this must compromise your "feeble" attempts at intimacy.

Troon

Troon

moss man says:

See what I mean.....specious, spoiled rotten, and entertaining(;>)thanks!)

JDMan ought to be over in LOS imparting a fresh sense of decorum and appreciation for all things Thai, bar girls or not; they need new, wealthy, falling-in-love types. And the hard core cynics posted above ought to be over in the Middle East interrogating prisoners, or making the world a safer place against terrorism. By the time you finish your 18 months tour and return to LOS JDMan may really understand your misery, and maybe then you could appreciate what you have.

Amused by Kwai says:

"In the future, think of a point first, THEN see if anything amusing should trickle out of it."

Mr. Kwai, so far I have been one of your silent admirers but this thread compels me to respond to your performance a la go-go. You confirm my picture of you as a dilettante on the loose, averse to straight talk, rather decadent in your language and occasionally someone who sounds the victory cry of the great ape as issued from the androgynous chest of Tania Kwai, to the accompaniment of many arms and legs snapping during attempts to swing from tree to tree in the backyards of an Internet forum. The following got my attention.

"you're the nice man who wants to discuss my penis"

I think what the chap is saying is that you're not compensated in your pursuits. From your countless posts I can see that you like to perform as the 'plant' of this forum, the imaginative one, and you do wear the role rather well like a garb. But I get the distinct impression in this thread that your stuff is defrauding our recreational urge, like voyeurism is to shagging. And like a voyeur you do compete seriously, not in play but in speculation, and self-consumption, a sort of mental masturbation (a topic we all know much about as observing participants of this site). Self-abuse as exemplified by some of
the talk in this thread does not require one to look one's best. But Kwai dear, when it is performed in public it becomes more than the amusement you want to ìtrickle out of you.î So let us look at some of the highlights of your performance.

"your name rings a bell...still I don't remember a single thing you've ever said in any of your posts."

What an achievement this. You sound like Germaine Greer in her pre-menopausal socialite state.

"Did it take you long to compose that?"

You remind me of one French provincial poetry teacher from Grenoble who used to force Ronsard down his students and they all lovingly called him "hazelnut bite". I was not sure why but I reckon they were alluding to squirrel's shit.

"When not handled by an Errant-class writer who makes it look easy those kinds of posts really stink on ice."

See what I mean. This sounds like a line out of that comic spat between VS Naipaul and Paul Theroux. As a friend said to Naipaul "goes easy on him....This is his first post-mortem."

"the central conceit of your trifling little interjection."

Mr. Shaker Heights.

"More faux-polish. I think you are trying to conjure up some suggestion of refinement but you aren't really pulling it off. Trust me."

Peter Cook in one of his less inspired moments created this Sinorita character: she was a cross between a Piranha and a hooker employed by some radio show to give advice to women on how to perform a good blowjob. This hooker came from a place so small that she was still a virgin! And on it went in typical Cook fashion.

"Are you so daft as to have earnestly mistaken my meaning? Having been a lawyer for a decade (big deal) I don't merely pretend to know about the daunting world of lawyers as you do."

Shrilling like a gecko in the rafters. You call yourself Tanai (lawyer) Kwai (buffalo). I'm sure a man of your intellect has considered the double meaning of Kwai. I'll give you an example. Thais say that if your wife has got another bloke and is getting done without your knowledge she thuuk swam khaw (like a 'buffalo' they say) or more prosaically, she's put a hollow sheaths of keratin on your head that you cant see. This can also apply if you've been had by anyone. Doesn't mean daft or stupid but just tricked.

"Our beautiful English language defiled through such misuse..."

I would have called you the Dr. Johnson of this forum -rude, opinionated, learned, sensitive and fair - but you lack one of these essential ingredients. Then again, better a psuedo-Johnson than a Derrida.

"As a general matter I don't comment on a person's diction."

Sure you don't, we've never seen you do that.... now have we.... awash in denial or some petrified dogma.

"your entire approach is to put on airs of sophistication and worldliness, often using words whose meanings you only faintly seem to know."

Mr. John Fowles: "Erm nothing personal Mr. ..." what did you call him, yeah.. "Mr. Royal Douche, your CV shows that you are not the one for us ". LOL, tell me then Khoy erm sorry, Kwai, what's worse than your doctor telling you that you've got VD?

"We are a bunch of strangers here."

Of course, we are all strangers, which is reason enough for me to speculate on your various moods. Now I cant see what your motivation is but I assume that it could just be amusement as you say yourself - something not culpable, but easily contrived to express communion with your fellow chatterers here. And denigrations and paeans aside you're doing a marvelous job.

So here we have in Tanai Kwai several characters coalescing into one or shall we call them a repertory company in his head he casts at will: The provincial poetry teacher, the voyeur, the pathologist, the Signorita Hooker, Thuuk Swam Khaw, Dr. Johnson in jeans, the personnel manager (there are more I'm sure). And they're having an Irish six course meal. And Tanai is smitten with them like a blind skunk in love with his own fart. Your drama is amusing, but only that. Words get you in the end. I called you decadent above. Whatever words used and however amusing, they disguise not illuminate meaning. In Waiting for Godot Beckett has these two characters blowing air:

1: In the meantime let's try and converse calmly, since we're incapable of keeping silent.
2: You're right. We're inexhaustible.
1: It's so we won't think.
2: We have that excuse.
1: It's so we won't hear.
2: We have our reasons.

And if you want a name more befitting one of them (the male) is called Vladimir.

TANAI KWAI says:

Errant... Errant... Errant...

Et tu Errant?

I am off to the gym but rest assured I shall savor this love letter again A.S.A.P. Can't wait to hear the chorus of sublime embellishments upon these various themes from the players with whom I've been having intercourse lately.

Well done and thanks.

(...)

Amused by Kwai says:

Come on Khoy* dont misplace affection here. I have nothing to do with Errant, though I have nothing against him either.

I called myself "Amused by Kwai" because I am. I'm an observer here and I'm not in the business of writing sonnets for members of a forum.

If you further want my measurements then I'll let you know once I'm in solid form in these environs.

All the "embellishments" as you call them refer to is this: whatever notions or styles we have in an arena tenuously held together as this one, one should not try to line them up bookkeeper style, like little balls on an abacus and derive some mathematics. These notions or styles or whatever is inherent in them (not that I think anything is inherent, we just make them up) are rather flung up by the handful. If you, of course, feel adventurous you can, as you've been doing, thrown them up in the air like confetti, but as a scribe let egos lie where they are.

TANAI KWAI says:

Now then, as a point of departure, my apologies to Errant. I was in a hurry and I failed to process this person's post with any care. I thought it could have been Errant's work, perhaps the result of a bout with crack, but how wrong I was. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Stripped of its invective, affectation and willful abstruseness, the above post was, unfortunately, still shite. My contrition for this erroneous identification cannot be overstated, especially in light of the last abortion by the same author, immediately above.

I predict this person will continue to indulge in a sort of pornography of name-dropping until one or two people calls him/her a ìcunt.î Chastened, the author will then reach out tentatively, in a far more human voice, offering olive branches and effusive praise to others. He/she will be tolerated politely, but as the author reverts to grating form, even those praised will come to feel queasy and grow distant, greeting these cloying compliments with stony silence. This cycle will continue until the author (in whatever incarnations may follow) comes to feel unappreciated and skulks off to what they will tell themselves is a board that features ìReal writers. Real writing.î

Whoever you are, ìAmused,î one thing is clear: You are projecting upon me traits that are richly, RICHLY manifested in your own overwrought and contrived persona. Perhaps you loathe yourself intensely?

And thanks, by the way, for so mercifully sparing me the indignity of revealing even more unpalatable connotations of the term ìkhwai.î I have every aspiration of using my posts here as a calling card in my efforts to join you as a darling of Thai high society.

Lastly, you will save yourself (and me, I won't lie) a lot of aggravation if you stick to the standard format used by Messrs. Scamp, GIMPY1, Chopper and most recently, Troon. It was devised with admirable economy and precision and goes a little something like this:

(1) Tania is a cunt.
(2) Tania is a blowhard.
(3) Tania posts too much.

Do you recall that ragged circle of slack-jawed, hooting Cro-Magnons in ì2001î? Then one of them finds the weapon - a sun-bleached femur - to change the course of all history? Well, a reference to your French poetry teacher in Grenoble ain't it. And Derridean hijinks don't tend to carry the day either. Stick to the tried and true, which has served these brave pioneers, upon whose shoulders you now stand, so very well. You might even make some friends.

(winky)

Amused by shrunk Khwai says:

Dear oh dear me.

I have to say you are your own best argument. As I said, Vladimir, if you paused and reflected you could learn a thing or two. But you've struck a pose like an inflated pharoah and turned into a mummy, much as a triumph to the embalmers art.

Despite your syrupy twaddle I'll continue to see you affectionately as an one of those objects of amusements, tamed as you are, yet still full of lines that race through treetops, simian fashion, or simply strain at the leash of their own logic:"shite, contrition, pornography of name-dropping, cunt, feel queasy, 'Real writers. Real writing', loathe yourself intensely, using my posts here as a calling card, Derridean hijinks."

Wow. you're making me dizzy here mate. Slow down.

Vladimir goes to the bandleader and says:"Excuse me sir do you do requests". "Yes we do. What would you like ?" And Vladimir goes "Oh erm.....anything".

Let me put it to you in the plainest form possible:

Talk squared or cubed in the end will not so much more than make contact and it is just an empty performance, a pose, which does not allow us to know anything. It is a kind of neurosis that thematizes your delusions. It has shaped you profoundly that you are content to stay in it, and indignant at the mention of this daily availability you have for empty discussion.

I'll leave you to it mate.

Adios.

TANAI KWAI says:

"if you paused and reflected you could learn a thing or two."

Paused and reflected on the musings of a solipsist incapable of discussion? You are a person who merely retreats into his own meanderings, unable to engage in a manner that might elicit something meaningful beyond the confines of your own mind. In brief, you're not much of a conversationalist. Please try to assume a more entertaining posture or your fixation will just start to creep me out.*

And what odd rehtorical devices you favor -- stringing certain of my words together in random fashion and patting yourself on the back as though you've won the regatta. Why not respond rather than investing so much in pretending to some semblance of equanimity? Is it that scary to take a break from evading and avoiding the mirrors placed before you?

Look, I'm evidently someone you've aggressively sought out in order to reenact some childhood drama. But even if you abandon the playground with your cosseted pretensions of victory (a common ploy around here) you'll still be faced with the same demons at the next place. And dropping a load of your crap off there ultimately won't be any more satisfying. You've got some hard work to do. This arena is as good as any.

My suspicion is that some early verbal facility may have played a role in encrusting you with feelings of superiority and you now believe whatever garbled mess you spew forth must be pithy. But you scarcely make yourself understood. (It's downright surreal when you start to say "more prosaically" or "let me put it to you in the plainest form possible" and then proceed to give painful birth to some kind of sharp-edged Rube Goldberg contraption.) Funny thing is, you denounce me for my aversion to "straight talk." God almighty, you've got big brass ones.

"Talk squared or cubed in the end will not so much more than make contact and it is just an empty performance, a pose, which does not allow us to know anything."

Tell me about it. This entire discussion has been about divining the supposed meaning in your fluff. If you want to discuss something, escape your abstractions, liberate yourself from the theoretical and embrace your humanity. You offer nothing more than detached, flaky criticisms lensed through the hazy prism of your college term papers. You don't even offer a name, preferring to be a moving target in every sense -- unable to have the slightest bit of skin in the game. Do you live? Do you breathe? Do you fuck? I have no idea based on your words. A frilly robot, you are, festooned with fancy lace but with no heart at all. LIVE, YOU! You can do it.

If you have something to say, let's hear what it sounds like when you aren't talking out of your ass. Or will you simply cease to exist? Talk to me. Tell me who you are.

(no more winkys for you for the time being -- see below)

*On the same score, please stop calling me "dear" and waxing on about your "affection" for me. Perhaps a more suitable outlet for these expressions would be your local "Gentleman's All-Nite Reading Library and Theatre." I don't want to have to shower every time I read you, and I'd like to reach this understanding early since I get the sense you are going to endure like an unreported skid mark in the family wash.

Mike says:

Hey you 2:

What about this: we normal readers of mango sauce get 24 hours to place bets, then you two go duell yourself here:

Tickle: IQ and Personality Tests - The Classic IQ Test - www.tickle.com

That would be fun, wouldn't it?

Mike

TANAI KWAI says:

Apologies, Mike. I'm afraid the wind-up merchant has been wound up himself and I kind of went off.

In fact, this fellow(?) and you flatter me. He has showcased me as an intellectual but we'll all have a beer one day and you won't pick me out as the Sherlock von Einstein of the group.

(...)

Mike says:

Tanai,

Nothing to do with the posts before, just wondering: Is there any reason that you chose the little thai satangs chinese cousin as a nickname?

(For those who mai kow jai: kwai = basic unit of money in China)

TANAI KWAI says:

Mike,

This I did not know -- the Chinese money reference.

Actually, the "Tanai Kwai" thing started when I was picking up a little Thai (language) and starting to understand the sensitivity the Thais have to animal references. (It took me a while, for example, before I reached the point in my relationship with my TGF when I could call her my little "ling" or whatever -- as we might in the U.S. or Latin America, as a term of endearment -- without it being greeted by a flurry of slaps. It would cause such grave offense that I, of course, made it a point to inure her to it through constant repetition. Now we call each other such names all the time, though her friends think it's twisted.)

Anyway, a while back I was handling a legal matter in LOS. One night I was chatting with one particular gal who knew I was a Tanai Khwam. She was schooling me on the various references Thai girls make to farangs as "Khwai," and how terribly rude it is. We had a good laugh about it and after a few more drinks, in a fit of inspiration, she blurted out "Tanai Khwai!" I attacked her shortly thereafter, soundly punishing her naughtiness.* The term became pretty well cemented in my mind over the course of the evening. I just use a little bit of a simplified version here.

Of course, the name "Combover" is so good it almost makes me wish for male pattern baldness. And I like "Farangutang" a whole lot, even though he's been a dick of late. A few others are pretty clever, too.

(cheers)

*On the other extreme, I have been known to request that my TGF and her friends address me using the "Thanh" designation (e.g., "Thanh Mike"). They usually tell me to fuck off but it depends on their mood. We actually know a pretty strange American who, with no sense of irony or silliness, likes to be addressed as "Thanh Bob" by his poor country-ass teenaged wife. She regards him as a straight-up god because he has a house and a "Tiger" pick-up truck.

Enough Khoy Amusement says:

"In fact, this fellow(?) and you flatter me. He has showcased me as an intellectual but we'll all have a beer one day and you won't pick me out as the Sherlock von Einstein of the group."

Here, Here Tanai. I cant see how I did that but my intention was not to wind you up but remark on your discursive give and take with the other chaps long before I showed up. I called you a dilettante and in the best sense of that word. I hope that did not sting. And as for your self-contradiction, well, we all have that trait now and then.

And after I laughed for a long time after your initial reply congratulating me, I thought I might want to see what happens if I made you rethink my post. Rethink you certainly did, but sadly you failed to see the parody of it and went off gamboling on a tangent. But no matter. The point to the whole thing is that as an observer I implied, yes you're right, in a rather abstruse manner, your tendency to engage in "empty discussion" with a lot of posters and you having inferred whatever you liked went on and gave me as good an illustration I could have looked for in what must be a 500 words rant. Brilliant!

"you denounce me for my aversion to "straight talk." God almighty, you've got big brass ones."

You are catching on mate, look within yourself....

"Perhaps you loathe yourself intensely?"

lol, yeah mate, I feel like topping myself in the darkest recesses of mangosauce after dueling it out with Troon, Gimpy1, Chopper and some others, and one more "moving target" who refuses to give a name.....

"patting yourself on the back as though you've won the regatta"

Is this what it is? You are very adversarial and seek contest in every encounter. Well as I said I'll commit hara-kiri to fix my self-loathing once I have dealt with the others.... but I have so many of them in so many threads... sparring endlessly.

"He/she will be tolerated politely, but as the author reverts to grating form, even those praised will come to feel queasy and grow distant, greeting these cloying compliments with stony silence."

Sometimes Tanai we can all grow by learning what to leave out. I hope someday you'll practice the gospel you preach.

"I predict this person will continue to indulge in a sort of pornography of name-dropping until one or two people calls him/her a ìcunt.î "

and

"Lastly, you will save yourself (and me, I won't lie) a lot of aggravation if you stick to the standard format:"
1) Tania is a cunt.
(2) Tania is a blowhard.
(3) Tania posts too much.

Well well, if it is your favourite noun then I can indulge you but since you've had ample chances to be on the receiving end from others what's the point in me being one more.

"feel unappreciated and skulks off to what they will tell themselves is a board that features ìReal writers. Real writing.î "

If you failed to remember this is a thread called "I want our baby NOW!" It's not about literature, it's not about you or me. Even the guy who started the thread told you that. If you have been using forums for a while, the requirement for membership is one thing: stay on topic. If my little "sort of pornography of name-dropping" as you called it, cant make you realise that then God help you because no one here can!

"hazy prism of your college term papers"

You certainly will make for an interesting topic for one of those deconstructive psychobabbles that Derrida was sent to the pillory for....

"no more winkys for you for the time being:"

All this winky. Come on then, tell me since you are the master of communication. What does it mean this overused gesture of yours, laboriously contracting eyelids. Is it a conspiratorial signal? a parody (as amusement to you or your cronies)? or just a grimace (the usual artifice of a clown)? or ridicule? or just a habitual twitch? or a burlesque fake winking (a burlesque of faking a wink to deceive an innocent into thinking that Tanai's charm is in motion). Meanings Tanai, Meanings. You cant keep saying "winky" without knowing what counts as a winky. And it looks like every time you spout whatever quest occupies your head, usually you, you cant just redeem yourself by saying "winky" in the end. Why, you keep misfiring and with different results every time.

And lastly, you ask:

""Do you breathe? Do you fuck?""

Well, I'm equally flattered that you show interest in this and don't worry, when the time comes I'll share with you words about my breathing and fucking BUT in a different thread.

"Apologies if my comments rankle or bore you."
"Now then, as a point of departure, my apologies to Errant"
"Apologies, Mike. I'm afraid the wind-up merchant"

Before leaving you I will say that as exampled from your chat with others here, you have your redeeming qualities as well.... and please don't shower too much on my account ;)) But isn't it better, to use your own words, to "think of a point first" clearly and concisely in order not to apologize too may times later!

And now, since the amusement factor has run out, let's hand over the space to those who want to talk more about JDMAN and his Love.

Mike says:

Do you two really love each other that much? Am I really reading through an online drama here? Who's Romeo, who's Juliet then? My God, ups sorry, my Buddha, and both direct descendants from Freud's subconscious... or unconscious state of mind? You are answering just like Pavlov's reflexes are requiring itÖ

TANAI KWAI says:

Mike asks,

ìDo you two really love each other that much? Am I really reading through an online drama here?î

I think it has more in common with a story by Twain called ìThe Mysterious Stranger.î A couple of disembodied cunts (love that word!) drifting through (cyber-)space. This fellow(?) reeeally wants to chat with me, in front of an audience, and he's gone to quite a bit of trouble, what with all the screen names. It should end presently.

Idiot,

For someone who purports to be sooooo above it all, the stench of your simmering in your own juices is rather pungent.

ìmy intention was not to wind you up but remark on your discursive give and take with the other chaps long before I showed up.î

It is pretty clear that you are not governed by intentions, but by compulsions. When you grow uncomfortable, you recast your commentary as pure parody, or incisive observation, or whatever you perceive takes you out of the fray with as little real interaction as possible. Above all, your agenda is to remain a cypher. You carefully cup your nuts (or whatever you've got down there) at every turn, for example, ìHey all, I'm just having a bit of Brilliant fun!î:

ìyou gave me as good an illustration I could have looked for in what must be a 500 words rant. Brilliant!î

And then there's the other defense when the first wears thin -- the old ìthis place is full of bouncing morons so how could I possibly be invested in this discussion?î:

ìlol, yeah mate, I feel like topping myself in the darkest recesses of mangosauce after dueling it out with Troon, Gimpy1, Chopper and some others, and one more "moving target" who refuses to give a name.....î

You are so full of it. So detached -- yet adrenilated enough to slave over an exegesis of a guy's last five posts.

ìAnd as for your self-contradiction, well, we all have that trait now and then.î

Now and then? Jesus on a kebab, it's the organizing principle of everything you say! Step one: recognize a trait in someone you (perhaps only semi-consciously) recognize exists in yourself. Step two: attack it with a gusto inversely proportionate to your self-awareness.

ìAnd after I laughed for a long time after your initial reply congratulating meÖî

Hmm, quite. The denizens of Mango Sauce, with their primitive little responses to my brrrrilliant posts. Indeed, you are quite like some advanced race come to earth from beyond this universe to share your advanced rhetorical technology.

ìyou failed to see the parody of it and went off gamboling on a tangent.î

Yes, would that I could discipline my mind the way you do, gliding effortlessly between the ìrelevantî (when you're rectally passing one of your deep insights) and the ìirrelevantî (when you're undertaking your hilarious parodies and it's okay to frolic and gambol unimpeded). And what could be a better source of ìparodyî than references to the tedious nihilism of a Beckett play, sprinkled with references to Derrida or Foucault? Look out, Mel Brooks.

ìThe point to the whole thing is that as an observer I implied, yes you're right, in a rather abstruse mannerÖî

Oh, I'm right! I knew I could be. If only you could give all of my obvious conclusions about you the imprimatur of legitimacy!

ìyour tendency to engage in "empty discussion" with a lot of postersî

What is this we're having, for fuck's sake? And who made you the content police? Do I need to let you sniff my cork everytime I post?

ìYou are very adversarial and seek contest in every encounter.î

What if this were true? Does that consign me to playing some role in the re-enactment of this childhood drama of yours? Let me guess, I'm the headstrong kid who humiliated you and conspired to ensure you would always be picked last. You always knew this day would come.

But his time (cue the soundtrack)... it's personal.

More to the point, disagreements are routine here. I am by no means the sole maverick, curmudgeon, contrarian, hateful jackass, whatever. But you've attached yourself like a remora to my ass. And if I am, as you continually remind me, in your insufferable grandiosity (you must be a barrel of monkeys in real life), nothing special and merely a trifle to you, why not consider fucking off?

"I predict this person will continue to indulge in a sort of pornography of name-droppingî

How many times can you quote that one? Liked it, did you?

ìReal writers. Real writing.î

You indicated you had been lurking in wait for some time, just waiting for the right opportunity to dazzle me with your reading list. I assumed you would recognize the above words as those of another frequent participant who is also in the habit of endlessly announcing that he has left the building. I'm guessing you two will come to be fast friends.

ìIf you have been using forums for a while, the requirement for membership is one thing: stay on topic. If my little "sort of pornography of name-dropping" as you called it, cant make you realise that then God help you because no one here can!î

Ohhh, that was your purpose. Good to know you can be relied on to be the arbiter of such things. I look forward to hearing you pipe up whenever somebody colors outside of the lines. Or whenever somebody is funny. Or whether someone is being a masterful parodist as opposed to just a cocksucker.

ìAll this winky. Come on then, tell me since you are the master of communication. What does it mean this overused gesture of yours, laboriously contracting eyelids.î

Surely your enchanting philippic won't grind to a halt with a dissertation on (winky)? It's for FUN, jackass.

Oh good, there's moreÖ

ìWell, I'm equally flattered that you show interest in this and don't worry, when the time comes I'll share with you words about my breathing and fucking BUT in a different thread.î

I think you may have mistaken my suggestion that you stop bobbing and weaving with an actual interest in such matters. Please take note.

ìBut isn't it better, to use your own words, to ëthink of a point first' clearly and concisely in order not to apologize too may times later!î

UhÖ weren't you the one in the habit of writing abstrusely? Oh, wait a minute - that was part of that delicious parody. You'll notice that all of my apologies (a) had a strong element of sincerity and (b) 2 of 3 involved apologizing on your behalf or, on account of, you.

ìBefore leaving you I will say that as exampled from your chat with others here, you have your redeeming qualities as well.... and please don't shower too much on my account ;))î

To quote Khun Nahm, ìgrrrrrooooossss.î

Help me out here, are you a woman or a man, or what? I'll retract the question if you stop. You know what I mean.

(...)

Gimpy1 says:

Tania,

You must have taken some Ex-lax as there seems to be an abundance of shit coming out of your mouth!

2 questions for you: What Starbucks do you work at? And, how much does a triple latte expresso cost?

TANAI KWAI says:

GIMPY1,

I implore you to stop taunting me with our chasmic economic disparity.*

You have been successful in harnessing your obvious gifts to become a man of leisure. Manor life suits you well, I'm sure. (Though it may not possess the majesty of your native heath, there is a certain Duchy of Hazzard here in the States where you would feel quite at home.)

But sadly, my lot is to continue laboring in obscurity behind this shopworn Formica countertop that reeks of half-and-half... Is that not torment enough without your cruel reminders?

At long last Mr. GIMPY1, have you no sense of decency?

(...)

*As the hirsute and squat Travis Tritt once sang,

"Now won't you tell me if you can
Cause life's so hard to understand
Why's the rich man busy dancing,
While the poor man pays the band?
Oh, they're billing me,
For killing me.
Lord have mercy on the working man."

ERNESTO ORTEGA says:

TANAI. YOU ARE A BIG TIT. BUT IF YOU WERE ASIAN, I WOULD LIKE YOU VERY MUCH.

Enough Khoy Amusement says:

Sweating like an offender he continued this comedy..... I hope you stopped to breath when writing that.

"reeeally wants to chat with me,"

Jesus, doesn't he ever stop spraying his shorts!!!

"Do you fuck" "Help me out here, are you a woman or a man:" "You carefully cup your nuts"

I hope they will renew your Perv Visa once it runs out....

"When you grow uncomfortable, you recast your commentary as pure parody, or incisive observation, or whatever you perceive takes you out of the fray with as little real interaction as possible."

He still doesn't get it does he. Thicker than I thought!

ìthis place is full of bouncing morons..."

Thank you. You are a prime, and perhaps the only example of it. Here is what I said about you to start of with:

"someone who sounds the victory cry of the great ape as issued from the androgynous chest of Tania Kwai, to the accompaniment of many arms and legs snapping during attempts to swing from tree to tree in the backyards of an Internet forum...full of lines that race through treetops, simian fashion, or simply strain at the leash of their own logic."

"And what could be a better source of ìparodyî than references to the tedious nihilism of a Beckett play"

Ladies and gents, we have here a genius with an I.Q. of 60. You are living in the play nitwit ...that's why I suggested you drop this Kwai crap and call yourself Vladimir (the monkey twat). One minute you don't want the meaning of Kwai to be revealed, the next you revel in it, one minute you accuse me of calling you an idiot, the next you U-turn and say I showcase you as an intellectual. And one minute you go off how great the commentary is, the next you rant endlessly about it.... Who wants parody when you are about. I think, of your skunk moods the Signorita Hooker really does fit the bill. But no thanks, you're just look but don't touch material.

You are here to constantly show us that there is nothing more debasing than the words of those who say what is not worth saying at all!!!

"yet adrenilated enough to slave over an exegesis of a guy's last five posts." "The denizens of Mango Sauce, with their primitive little responses to my brrrrilliant posts."

Kwai The Affectionate Monkey Twat:-
--------------------------------------------
You've given me enough material. You are a complete twat you know that. Quite an affectionate monkey twat at that. LOL. Do you realise that you are hiding behind "The denizens" now. Its only YOU who is replying. Any sane individual would have practiced the "stony silence" you suggested first. But you fell on my lap and here I'm feeding you. If you could be taught one thing it would be the ways of the adult world, to behave, to be, amongst other things, a good customer. But how is that possible for a happily integrated monkey twat. You leap from tree to tree always losing interest and springing off again on some new and aimless quest. Typical as such simian behaviour is, few of us would choose to act in such a manner. I feel like an unwilling owner of a gibbon, as I said, always "straining at the leash".

If one lived with a monkey what would one do? After it had been admired, played with, after attempts to communicate with it had been made, then it would have to be disciplined. We would cage it or train it. No matter how highly we approve of it in its natural state, or how we regretted our attempts to fetter nature, we would eventually, forced to live with it every second of our lives would become unendurable. This being so, the Kwai monkey is no less tractable. It appears, chattering and restless. We are forced to make it aware of itself, little by little. The training is simple. Do not let it fling itself about, forbid it its fruitless quests, make it concentrate. Easier said than done, you say, but to say it is to do it. Simply tell it to stop. It will listen-for a moment or two. But, the minute you relax, off it goes again. Drag it back. Of course, as poor Monkey Twat itself would say, these things come in cycles. Attach it to something. This will happen many times, and you will find yourself become very tired. Put it to work, make it truly think. Give it a problem--a puzzle, a conundrum-- or merely make it count.

It will grow more quiet. But will it ever grow docile? or learn eventually? When it goes silent you will have known that an improvement has been made.

TANAI KWAI says:

ERNESTO ORTEGA you magnificent bastard!!!

To my distressed counterpart:

You're unraveling, but like a present that's more fun before it's opened, I'm not even enjoying the discovery of what's inside.

Becker wrote that the difference between the artist and the frustrated neurotic was largely a question of talent. WHY DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND MY ART! WHY CAN'T YOU CELEBRATE MY TALENT AS A PARODIST AND ABSURDIST RACONTEUR? ABSURDIST RACONTEURIST PARODY IS THE FUTURE, DAMN YOU! Sheesh, if you really want to hear some twigs snapping read your last frantic post. For someone so ìamusedî you sure are letting a guy with an IQ of 60 get under your skin. I'm but the foil, the ìplant,î the ìnitwitî -- and you're the sage-oracle-psychiatrist-puppeteer, remember? And I am simply ìperformingî for your pleasure.

I like the bits where you address the readership directly -- as though your flights of fancy are not so much drivel, but rather beacons of crystalline meaning to guide all seekers. I don't even think The Christ felt he had such an important message to share. Comparing your interlocutors to monkeys and apes is such fulfilling work for you. As a student of primatology (and perhaps because I'm so ìthickî) I don't take the offense you intend. But by all means keep denigrating monkeys and apes, your forbears. Merely a metaphor for your lack of self-awareness as to your own issues and frailties. As you lash out at me, I'm not sure what you desire more desperately: to draw blood, or to be understood by somebody, anybody, even a mere ìmonkey.î (Who do you imagine your audience to be, you poor sap? Do you feel you are really connecting with the vast lurking audience; that they are hanging on your every affectation? Perhaps this delusion is a necessity you maintain in the real world as well, underappreciated as you must be by all the simpletons you encounter.) And so I can't decide what you're more full of - shit or bile?

You have taken to re-printing tranches of your previous posts of which you are especially enamored. I agree that our last few posts clarify the situation and that all that need be said has been but I welcome your last word should you wish to avail yourself of the opportunity.

Hostilities aside, it's been an interesting exchange and you are a complex person to be sure. As we did not directly involve one anothers' mothers I account for the possibility that perhaps we'll be on the same side of one of these discussions in the future - though rendered less ìemptyî by your participation.

(winky, simply winky - not a hyperreal superfice or anything)

Enough Khoy Amusement says:

Becker said what? You've been riding on the back of Rube Goldberg so far and now you've switched rides. Is the "pornography of name dropping tempting you." Go on Vlad the erudite, tell us more about Becker then....

"like a present that's more fun before it's opened, I'm not even enjoying the discovery of what's inside."

With sentences like this you will trail blaze all the way to simile heaven. So much for the language you berate everyone for.

"a guy with an IQ of 60 get under your skin." hmmm you said earlier "unable to have the slightest bit of skin".

Make up your mind Vlad, do I have skin or not?

"I'm but the foil, the ìplant,î the ìnitwitî " " I'm so ìthickî"

You are learning little by little.

"As a student of primatology"

Fuck me Paddy.... do we have to start therapy sessions again? I said: you are primatology itself!

"I'm not sure what you desire more desperately: to draw blood, or to be understood by somebody, anybody, even a mere ìmonkey.î

I am openly preaching confrontation LOL

"As we did not directly involve one anothers' mothers"

Good grief, first you plead with me to call you cunt and now you want our mothers in this? Is it one of your juvenile fetishes or are you running thin on adjectives.

"Comparing your interlocutors to monkeys...."

Do you hear any one else, the plural guise will not save you. There is only you barking.

"And I am simply ìperformingî for your pleasure."

No you're not Vlad, that was then and this is now.... you're just barking. No performance could engage us this long.

If you have any wise words Mr Primatologist (seems like you've spent so much time at its elbow, when not lawyering away) I'm all ears now go on impart wise words to me re my folly and frailty.

If and when you have finished, allow me, because my affection for you is growing:

Here Sir Vladimir I have four questions for you:

1."Winkys are FUN" notwithstanding, tell me, what are you trying to avail yourself by writing day and night on this site. What would you do if an eagle snatched your PC away from you? You want to devise and appear in a one-man show? Or be a toastmaster at a tea-dance. Are you some ageing minor public schoolboy who can not be expected to distinguish between the pretentious and the daring. Or are you one of those dissipated lawyers who quotes whole scenes from Casablanca in front of the mirror. Do you visit hookers just to talk. Leave humorous messages on other people's answering machines. Discuss Test Match score. Go to art classes to see naked girls. Sleep rough, go mad, growl at women on the street. Write insane letters to the newspapers. How many times have you submitted anything to Psueds Corner. Or do you drive a mini-cab to write your first novel. Do you make jokes at the expense of sociologists and polytechnic teachers. Do you fish in a canal. Attend free lectures. Publish a book of cute sayings by children. Ever been blackmailed by a mail prostitute. Do you have a compulsion to appear on television or is the internet a poor substitute for that. Do you display cowardice when asked to round up cattle. Do you talk too little in social situations.

2. What exactly are you? An unsung hero. A nine-to-five philosopher. Stuffed up. Overtaken by events. Caught short. On parole. Redundant. Or did you just 'come out' recently.

3. How do you like your sex? since you talk an awful lot about breathing and fucking and arse. Do you pay for it. Not pay for it if you have agreed to. Le vice anglais. Wearing your wife's pantyhose. On the internet. In a rigger scrum. Watching replay on videos...I'm sure you're inexhaustible in this arena. Now please plumb some Homeric profundity and tell us what your fears are: Wet palms. Spontaneous emissions. Impotence. Being stood up. Not knowing if the opposite really cares for you as a human being. Evading the truth. Forgetting it.

4.What do you like people to ask you: When did you first discover that you could make people laugh? Do you still get nervous before a performance Sir Vlad? Why, Sir Vlad, a great lawyer like yourself be interested in hookers? How does it feel to be a sex object? Did it take you long to compose that? How closely is the leading character based on you?

moss man says:

Ah,TK...civility wins the day, only! (tweet, chirp!)

Khoy's Amusment rants have unspun himself. Now, he's in need of: 1.)A thirty minute lifecycle workout; 2.)somewhere quiet to go for a nap & looking at charts. 3.)Think of a new character to start posting under, perhaps, "Self-Stifler?"

MONOLOGUE FIN says:

"I welcome your last word should you wish to avail yourself of the opportunity."

That's it. The above 4 questions, or what is on the exterior, a shrill cadence duffel bag of a hyper-rant , contains enough material for you to write about and go back to amusing us and trickle away. Don't bother answering it to me here....God forbid no..that means back to therapy for you LOL.... You can go out there and be like the cannibal who went self-catering on holiday. And we will be the voyeurs who watch and laugh or maybe who knows, get excited. If it's good, one day I may even vote for a Tanai Kwai link, which leads us to your elongated speeches.

Now.... in a capsule here are things to remember:

1. stay on topic.
2. You can grow by learning what to leave out.
3. As someone here said you cant "always have the last word in no matter what."
4. Remember the "stony silence" you talked bout... practice it sometimes.
5. Your winky fun. Sometimes you can have it without saying anything.
6. Be a good customer. Let's not revel in being "disembodied cunts in cyber-space" as you put it. Words get you in the end mate!

Monkey Twat, Vladimir, Khoy, Tanai Kwai....whoever you are.....

TANAI KWAI says:

Moss Man,

"Ah,TK...civility wins the day, only! (tweet, chirp!)"

Yes, well, what can I do? (But I don't mean to be too disingenuous -- with civility like mine who needs hostility.) You can't please everyone, or, in my case, not even most everyone.

"Khoy's Amusment rants have unspun himself. Now, he's in need of: 1.)A thirty minute lifecycle workout; 2.)somewhere quiet to go for a nap & looking at charts. 3.)Think of a new character to start posting under, perhaps, "Self-Stifler?""

Ha! I'm sure he's probably a pretty normal guy just caught up in the tornadic emotions of self-expression. (Quite an imagination though, which is to be admired.*) I mean it is pretty strange and counterintuitive, this kind of communication -- to me, anyway. We've come a long way from talking shit over a camp fire over Mastodon filet.

(good stuff)

*As a few of you know, I am pretty free with details about my life, such as it is, off-line (and not much of an enigma on-line, for that matter). If Monologue Fin has an enduring curiosity about such things he knows where to find me.

Pete says:

Tanai,

This guy surely is something. But dont you think he is one of the regular guys trying to say to you in some way tone it down or something. I'm sure you mean well but you do get criticized on manners. About this guy I cant see the point behind hiding multiple names as well. Anyway the last bit of the stuff is quite funny.

Just my 2 cents.

Pete

jimmy hill says:

don't you fuckers have jobs?
jesus fkn chriSt - teh lengths you self aggrandizing arseholes go to to win your little fkn arguments, pack it in you vain shitpigs, get a job, get a life, stop hogging these pages...

its meant to be about thailand you know, not your pathetic arrogance and pompous overweening vanity

please, just have a day off

TANAI KWAI says:

Hi Pete.

"I'm sure you mean well but you do get criticized on manners."

I'm sure I mentioned I'm American. That should clear things up.