June 11 2004

BusterB loves women but hates feminists

Feminist bitches and their woman-hating sparring partners have nothing new to teach us. In my view, their noisy debate drowns out the voices of reasonable guys who love women but who also have genuine concerns about their increasingly negative attitudes towards men - attitudes that are constantly being reinforced by the western media.

In advertising, men are often portrayed as the dimwit guy outsmarted by his sassy female companion. The dozy twat can't get the car insured but his clever girlfriend goes to the AA website and does it in seconds. Women love this shit but it makes me cringe. Shooting a role-reversal version would be totally unacceptable because - despite mountains of evidence to the contrary - women still see themselves as victims in a male-dominated society. In my view, men are more likely to be the victims these days.

Vilification of men has gone mainstream and, in this climate of unrestrained criticism, magazine articles with titles like "What are men for?" are commonplace. That any explanation is required just goes to show how bad things have become. Why is it so unsurprising that the guards pictured humiliating Iraqi prisoners were American women?

As western women sound off at us in their loud voices, we downtrodden men are expected to bow our heads in silent agreement - but perhaps not for much longer. Now we have a new champion. Step forward, BusterB. Here, he advises us on "Women to Avoid".

Many men might read this page and think, "Why bother? It's all so obvious!" To some of us it hasn't been. I used to cling to any woman who even so much as looked my way, until I figured out that most of them were more grief and trouble than they were worth. What kinds of women make the fucking you're getting not worth the fucking you're getting?

Any woman who says, "No means no." First, this marks her as a feminist. Second, it marks her as someone who believes more in theories in her head about how the world should be than she believes in reality. Anyone not steeped in feminist dogma knows that nobody, anywhere means no every time they say no. Women who can't acknowledge this reality are trouble. Besides, it's a stupid thing to say to anyone. It's insulting to those who care and ineffectual against those who don't.

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Women who say things like this are simply trying to push responsibility onto your shoulders. What she's saying is, "It's now up to you decide when I really mean 'no' and when I don't really mean it, and act accordingly. If I'm ever vague or unclear and you misunderstand me, it will be your fault, not mine, because I told you that 'No means no.'" She wants to impose a rule, then never again have to work at making her intentions clear. She wants to make the extraction of clear meaning from day-to-day interaction your job. Meanwhile, she'll have no compunction at all about treating you in exactly the same way she's told you not to treat her. If you're a kind-hearted guy who cares, then the only way to avoid constant nervous tension and occasional, devastating fights is to be a jerk and pay no attention to what she says. This is why women who say stupid things like, "No means no," usually end up with jerks.

Any woman who complains that she "can't meet a decent man," or says that you're the "first decent man" she's met. Remember that to most people "decent" means "OK" or "barely acceptable." What this person just said is that all of the men out there are beneath her consideration and you (you lucky dog you) are the only one she's found, out of thousands of men, who has even a chance of being adequate. Don't be flattered. Leave.

Any woman who gloats that men "think with their penises." In my experience, women who say things like this are themselves obsessed with sex, but not in any way that I want to get involved with. Spending time with a woman like this means having every little thing you do interpreted sexually and means spending a lot of time apologizing for things you weren't even doing or thinking. Save yourself the confusion and anguish and let some other poor bastard "steal" her.

Any woman who smugly states or implies that she shapes her men and makes them better. Sometimes women say this (mostly to each other), but more often they act it out by trying to "improve" you at a certain point in the relationship. Want to earn her respect? Want to earn the respect of other women? Show her that you're a man with his own personality and not a lump of clay to be shaped. Dump her and go find someone who likes you.

Any woman who has ever taken a Women's Studies class, unless she had to take it and she talks about it as if it were a year in the gulag. Women's Studies could easily be renamed Hating Men. Just stay away.

University or college-trained women. Universities and colleges are hotbeds of feminism. Most well-educated women are fine, but a good proportion of them hate men to some degree. Why increase your odds of ending up with a feminist bitch when you can chat up other women who are more likely to be reasonable? If you find a good woman and she happens to have a college education then don't let that stop you, but if you're still looking, why look for diamonds in a junk store? You're not immortal, and you can only chat up so many women. Why waste time on long shots?

Amateur psychologists. Watch for this during your first fight. If she says something like, "You don't value my point of view because you have your arms crossed, which is symbolic of closing yourself off from me" then run for the hills. There's no winning with women like this. Every little motion you make, every nervous twitch, every choice of words contains hidden meaning which she will extract. The meaning depends upon how she felt about you at the time, how she feels about you now, whether she's on the rag, the season, the weather, and the direction of the wind over the South Pole. Get rid of her while you're still sane.

Professional psychologists. See above, except she probably won't tell you what conclusions she's drawn. Besides, these days she must have been through Women's Studies, so that's two strikes.

Labelers. All people label other people. It's a reflex. Some, however, use labels as weapons. Listen to how she describes other people. If she habitually attaches labels to other people and their behaviour, if she's often talking about "low self-esteem," "type A personality," "passive-aggressive," or other such ways of pigeon-holing people, then move on. It's only a matter of time before she classifies you, and then she will never be able to see you as a whole person again. Incidentally, this also goes for women who classify people in nice ways. If her world consists of a limited number of "personality types" then she has trouble dealing with real people and accepting them as they come, and that includes you. [Yes, I realize the irony inherent in making a list of types of women to avoid and labeling one of those types, "Labelers," but I'm hoping that the men reading this aren't looking to date me. Besides, I'm taken.]

Activists. Any woman who spends time at protest marches and demonstrations is angry. All angry women are particularly angry at men. She'll tell you that you're different, but how long before you become just another man that she hates?

Prima donnas. If the woman you're with starts strutting around with her nose in the air like she owns you, lose her for someone who's easier to deal with. Who cares that she used to be nice? She's not any more. Life is short. Why spend your limited time on this planet hanging around with assholes?

Feminists. Period. At the basis of all feminism: equality-based feminism, men's-rights-too feminism, rabid feminism, is the theory that men once controlled the world and are responsible for all of the bad shit that has happened in the last 5,000 years. It doesn't matter how committed she is to "true equality." It doesn't matter how much she agrees with your causes. When the gloves come off, she'll blame you for everything that's gone wrong in her life and everything that's gone wrong in the world since Hammurabi.

Divorced women. OK, some divorced women are divorced because they married snakes. Sometimes life just screws you over and you have to back up and try again. However, most divorced women are divorced because they chose badly, wanted too much, or screwed up their relationship. Why should you waste your time being her second crack at it? By dating a divorcee you've just lowered your odds of success. If she's been divorced more than once then she's either monumentally unlucky or has no idea what she wants, and it's likely the latter. Stay away if you're looking for a permanent relationship.

After all of this, I have to add a postscript. This list of "women to avoid" isn't trying to say that in the groups that I named there are no nice women. On the contrary, in some of these groups there are lots of nice women. They may even be in the majority. Nonetheless, if the bitches are even 25% of the total, that makes your odds of ending up with a bitch about 50% (since most of the nice ones are probably already taken... bitches tend to be single for a reason). Why mess with a 50/50 chance when you can go looking in other groups women where your chances of ending up with someone reasonable are closer to 75 or 80%? This isn't very good news for the good-hearted professional psychiatrists, college-educated women, or divorcees, but you're here to make your life better, not make their lives better.

Details

More of BusterB's thoughts on women can be found here.

www.themenscenter.com/busterb/women.htm

My thanks go to Mango Sauce reader Dave for telling me about BusterB.

[Posted to Relationships by David]

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Readers' comments

Moral Crusader says:

I would like to add another type of woman to avoid - any woman who appears to have cream of corn soup permanently dripping from her pussy.

You're welcome

June 11, 2004 1:48 PM

Diana says:

Scraping the bottom of the barrel now - aren't we? Anything to keep that daily blog deadline.

I don't think any men have the patience to read through your tripe cut'n'past job. On the other hand, those that do are seriously lacking a life.

Di
The Princess of Wails

[I'm sorry that my taste in writers failed to amuse you, Your Highness. Perhaps if you had not scraped the bottom of the barrel in selecting your chauffeur you might now have a life yourself - David]

June 11, 2004 2:56 PM

Jay says:

Thats so true, I read through it all, it bought back a lot of memories of when i used to live with my girlfriend in England. Then i bought her on holiday to Thailand.
Almost forgot...Thats why I moved to Thailand.

She fell into a few of those catagories.

June 11, 2004 3:49 PM

anonymous coward says:

I had serious problems with a mate once because I was more of a feminist than she was. She could not be satisfied unless I played the financial provider and caretaker role. As she was older than me, I felt she didn't understand the rules of that game. Traditional roles can be extreme too. Still better than bosy butches with the same but buried expecations though.

June 11, 2004 9:26 PM

Dark says:

Dear Guys,

Right on Buster B!

Feminazis hate Men like Buster because he has the balls to speak the truth and not be a Sensitive New Age Guy (doormat ) like most American Men.

If more Men were like Buster in the 60s we wouldn't have the FemiNazi nightmare.

American Women were great...................50 years ago.

Dark

June 11, 2004 10:23 PM

John Galt says:

Dear Guys,

Re: "Diana" trashing Buster:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Scraping the bottom of the barrel now - aren't we? Anything to keep that daily blog deadline.

I don't think any men have the patience to read through your tripe cut'n'past job. On the other hand, those that do are seriously lacking a life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Typical pathetic FemiNazi rant.
Notice she did not go over any point that Buster made and debate him on it.
FemiNazis are incapable of logic, they depend on emotionalism and hysteria.

Hey Diana, the Men on this list have read and agreed with the thoughts posted by Buster B!

John

June 11, 2004 10:29 PM

JAM says:

I found Diana's comments really amusing, I believe someone else touched on it as well. The first warning sign for me in dealing with anybody male or female is when they attack the writer or speaker in question instead of being able to offer a valid response to their subject. Being a male, it was tough but I managed to fight my way all the way through that huge 'cut and paste' job ;-) and found myself nodding in agreement throughout. Wise words, sadly the women that are portrayed within that rant don't understand that it's talking about them. A very sad state of affairs indeed.

June 12, 2004 4:05 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

I feel his pain here but he lost me on the "no means no" part of the polemic. God almighty, I'll never understand where the fun is in fucking somebody who seems at all ambiguous about her desire to fuck you. Who do you think you are, Pep� le Pew? Just get the hell out of there.

If you're breaking a sweat trying to pry her legs open then I'm pretty sure no means stop.

(...)

June 12, 2004 4:48 AM

Prorogue says:

I adore women. But I'm biased.

June 12, 2004 5:01 AM

JAM says:

Tanai,

I think you missed the point. Re: No means no. He was not saying men should go around f*cking women even after they say no. He was trying to make the point that if No means no, it should mean no regardless of who says it. When my g/f asks me if I want to go to her mothers for dinner and I say NO, that is never, I mean never ever the end of the conversation... yet I clearly said no. So why does no not mean no in this instance? If no MUST mean no then it would have to be for all instances of the use of the word, but of course that can't be so, as we all use the word No when it fact we might mean maybe or yes or ask me again, etc..etc...

June 12, 2004 5:03 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Jam,

I'm no mindreader so only the author knows.

But re: fucking w*men, I think it's reasonable to assume some connection to the traditional connotations of the phrase "no means no."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089687/

http://www.teenwire.com/index.asp?taStrona=http://www.teenwire.com/warehous/articles/wh_20011011p120.asp

(yes)

June 12, 2004 6:41 AM

Dana says:

Well, I hate to be the bearer of even worse news; but you don't want to forget that women are basically walking chemistry labs that due to the wonders of Science will soon not need men for ANYTHING. Men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love (re: babies). As soon as they don't need our active participation, only a pill; they will drop us like sacks of corn. This day in chemistry in coming. Fast. So get it while you can boys--get it while you can--get it while you can. The saddest man in the world is the old man with no memories. If it looks like a woman; fuck it and don't be too particular. It's amazing how my quality of life went up as soon as I left mommy and the church and my pride and my morals behind and just started fucking what looked good. I am 55 years old. I expect in my life that is left to be told that my active participation is no longer necessary. This is what the science wonks in the labs are doing right now--figuring out a way to completely deal me out of the equation of life. Well, I figure I have another 2000 fucks left. When my tired chest breaks the tape at my death bed scene I will have come out even. Get it while you can.

June 12, 2004 9:59 AM

John U says:

Dana,

I've got news for you.

Womenllove to be desired, they love to be lusted after, and they love to be fucked. I'm not saying they all have orgasms, we know that's not the case, but being wanted is a big part of the enjoyment for them.

So whatever the outcome of the search for sexless procreation we will still be needed don't worry.

And prostitution will never die, so you will still be needed for the depth of your pocket.

So be happy, the future's bright. Put on yoru shades.

June 12, 2004 6:04 PM

Jam says:

Tanai,

You still missed the point.

If a woman says NO it should mean NO. I agree, period.

BUT if that is the case, then when a man says NO should it not mean NO as well? Of course it should..but it never does.

You can say the typical. Oh it's different, but it's not. Read the links you posted, some girl whining that she said No but her b/f scared her so she gave in.... yet women accept that as a way of life and a damn good one, when her b/f ever says no to her about anything she wants, she will bug whine bitch complain and never shut up until she gets her way.... so the difference is???

Respect should go both ways... sadly it seldom if ever does.

June 14, 2004 4:05 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

BusterB writes,

"Anyone not steeped in feminist dogma knows that nobody, anywhere means no every time they say no."

Jam writes,

"If a woman says NO it should mean NO. I agree, period."

Gee. That happens to be the sum and substance of my comment. So I guess we both missed the point.

I obviously didn't provide those links for the truth of the matter asserted but to respond to your claim that BusterB was using the phrase "no means no" with no awareness of its traditional connotations.

Yes, he says some other things about female hipocrisy that clearly resonate with you, and upon which you base your little rant there at the end. Good for you.

(...)

June 14, 2004 4:47 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Jam, on reflection I may have inadvertently overestimated you in my last response. I apologize for any confusion. Let me back up. You write:

"When my g/f asks me if I want to go to her mothers for dinner and I say NO, that is never, I mean never ever the end of the conversation... yet I clearly said no."

Lacking any sense of proportionality, you equate your unpleasant dining situation to that of a woman declining to be raped.

The point is, men must respect "no means no" in a sexual situation because they have physical power that would otherwise permit them to force their will upon a woman. If you don't want to eat dinner somewhere, a woman can't make you do it... unless you're just totally whipped.

And even if she could make you you'd just end up with indigestion, as opposed to the ravages of an ass-raping.

That you experience feelings of violation at the hands of women so severe that you would equate them to rape is chilling.

(brrrrr!)

June 14, 2004 5:14 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Christ on a pogo stick, when I'm right I'm right.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader799.html

(whip it good)

June 14, 2004 5:26 AM

Diana says:

You men are such a bunch of losers! You all look for a woman who wants to take it lying down (literally) and when you cannot find one (or lose her eventually) you bring your search to impoverished lands.

What are you all going to do when the women of Asia recognize you for what you are? Set up a colony of wankers on the moon I suppose!

June 14, 2004 1:05 PM

sniffer says:

If we do go, do you promise not to visit?

June 14, 2004 2:30 PM

mr peter says:

Diana could you tell us all what you think a winner is when it comes to a bloke? I think if having relationships with cute, attractive, sensual Asian woman is being a 'loser' then I am more than happy to be one.-peter

June 14, 2004 2:59 PM

Rita says:

Hello Diana:

Well, what are you waiting for?? Mr. Peter, et. al, has requested an operational definition of "loser" as it pertains to Western men, from a Western woman's perspective...Does it get any better than this?!;-)

A compelling opportunity if there ever was one...And don't hold back--you were off to a great start with your comment above: "you all look for a woman who wants to take it lying down & when you cannot find one you take your search to impoverished lands"--now finish the job!

I mean let's begin with looks: the physical attributes, alone, of these Western men who go to SE Asia to find women. Pulese...Are you f*cking kidding me w/this?!

With the possible exception of David, our beloved host, of course (I have no doubt David is a drop dead gorgeous, 6'2", flat-stomached, Anglo with clear skin, perfect white teeth, crystal blue eyes & thick/blond hair at 40 yrs old & would be equally as attractive to any Western woman in her 20s/30s/40s as he is to their TG counterparts), the Western men looking for Thai women of any age, are 96% hideous mutants to look at by Western standards, 3.9% are non-mutants/non-descripts & the remaining 1 tenth of a percent could be considered attractive by Western female standards (e.g., females b/w ages: 27 & 55). Yes, can't you envisage a line-up of ALL English/British & American men, to name a few, who have travelled to LOS to find TGs for gfs, or wifes in the past 30 yrs? What a Freak Show that would be, huh?

Perhaps I shouldn't speak to other Western men's physical attractiveness; however, I can speak to Americans who go to LOS to find women for whatever reason & it isn't pretty! These men are typically fat (stomach protrudes/shoulders hunched/narrowed, atrophied muscles from head to toe, smokers (smell like wet ashtrays all the time, drinkers (borderline alcoholics, so they wreak of alcohol, as well); have poor oral hygiene (periodontal disease so severe their breath smells like feces 24/7, even w/o the additional alchemic effect of nicotene & beer superimposed on the stench of bleedy/supperant gums--or bad teeth they've neglected to have cleaned in a decade!); possess thinning hair, if any, that is most likely greasy (drandruff flakes emanating 24/7) & a face, nose, eyes that are well, just plain ugly in combination, poor bast*rds...In fact, wouldn't it be interesting to be able to see what the men who frequently post to this website look like in person?

Yes, therein lies a small but extremely representative sample of the level of physical attractiveness, alone, of the Western men who go to LOS to hook up w/TGs. In other words, if we line up Mr. Peter, Tanai Kwai (though I love him for his perspicacity/eloquence/knowledge of history/culture/literature/feminist dogma etc., so his looks would be inconsequential to me, but we need him for this research design), Dana, John U, Sniffer, etc., what do you think that line-up would rate, individually & collectively, looks-wise in the US or UK, on a scale of 1 to 10??

That's what I thought...and that's only ONE attribute--looks/physical attractiveness to the opposite sex--it doesn't address other attributes Western women look for in a desirable partner, depending on her background, such as: 1) education; 2) personality/sense of humor/psychcological fitness/patience/kindness/emotional intelligence; 3) financial viability; 4) dedication to healthy living/longevity; 5) s*xual equipment/capability, etc...

Impoverished women cannot afford to be discerning when it comes to Western men, so they pretty much take the best of their offers, which is most likely pretty 'slim pickings' to begin with. In fact, sadly enough, Western film stars notwithstanding, Thai women, are left to assume the Western men they see in LOS are representative of the ones, say, in America & nothing could be farther from the truth!!!! Its mostly the physically, mentally, s*xually or financially challenged that are relegated to go to impoverished lands to find women.

Fortunately for Western men, in the case of Thai women, even old Western male retards/mutants arriving in LOS are able to find cute, little, soft, smiling girls ready to bed them & PRETEND they don't want all the same things in a man we Western women want, for as long as they have to in order to "cash in/out" (e.g., money for Thai bf/husband, Greencard, easy life in the West, etc.)!:-)

June 15, 2004 4:17 AM

tonychang says:

"fat (stomach protrudes/shoulders hunched/narrowed, atrophied muscles from head to toe, smokers (smell like wet ashtrays all the time, drinkers (borderline alcoholics, so they wreak of alcohol, as well); have poor oral hygiene (periodontal disease so severe their breath smells like feces 24/7, even w/o the additional alchemic effect of nicotene & beer superimposed on the stench of bleedy/supperant gums--or bad teeth they've neglected to have cleaned in a decade!); possess thinning hair, if any, that is most likely greasy (drandruff flakes emanating 24/7) & a face, nose, eyes that are well, just plain ugly"

....Rita, have we met? (I never looked like that before I moved to Thailand)

June 15, 2004 6:14 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Rita,

"you all look for a woman who wants to take it lying down & when you cannot find one you take your search to impoverished lands"

Some men who've sworn off farang women do so because they've been through emasculating, fiscally devastating divorces and the like. For them, LOS is paradise: a place bursting with lovely, eager young women who have no legal recourse if the man decides to jettison a girlfriend/unregistered "wife" relationship. I don't, however, think this necessarily has anything to do with a man's looks. But since relatively few people in the world are gorgeous, it stands to reason that such men might not have a side gig as male models.

Other farang men, as you suggest, are ugly/fat/balding/foul-smelling/whatever and could not possibly aspire to land a youthful beauty in their home country... but they are in a quandary because they are not sexually attracted to women in their league. Yes, they can avail themselves of prostitutes back home but this activity is stigmatized, illegal and expensive in, say, America. The LOS and other third-world areas present attractive destinations for such men also.

Then there is the third group, to which, no doubt, all of the male posters here belong. These are the swashbuckling international adventurers -- roguish but refined men of action who've left a trail of satisfied women from Samui to Sao Paolo. Handsome, in a rugged kind of way and rugged in a handsome kind of way, their anthem is this Ricky Nelson standard:

I'm a travelin' man
I've made a lot of stops all over the world
And in every port I own the heart
Of at least one lovely girl

I've a pretty Seniorita waiting for me
Down in old Mexico
If you're ever in Alaska stop and see
My cute little Eskimo

Oh my sweet Fraulien down in Berlin town
Makes my heart start to yearn
And my China doll down in old Hong Kong
Waits for my return

Pretty Polynesian baby over the sea
I remember the night
When we walked in the sands of the Waikiki
And I held you oh so tight

Oh, I'm a travelin' man
Yes, I'm a travelin' man

"In other words, if we line up Mr. Peter, Tanai Kwai (though I love him for his perspicacity/eloquence/knowledge of history/culture/literature/feminist dogma etc., so his looks would be inconsequential to me, but we need him for this research design), Dana, John U, Sniffer, etc., what do you think that line-up would rate, individually & collectively, looks-wise in the US or UK, on a scale of 1 to 10??"

You have flattered me into mush but also goaded me into challenging your frightening conception of the readership. For the record, while perhaps not the prize Greg is, I'm 36, 5'9" 163 lbs., 5-days-a-week at the gym, no cigarettes, rarely drink alcohol, full head of hair, clear olive complexion, Ivy Leaguer, -- and I have my teeth cleaned every three months.

I wish I were a bit taller, of course, but I contend that this handicap is not behind my interest in Thailand.

Modesty (and immodesty) does not permit me to score myself as anything other than a 7 on your scale. In brief, while I experience no embarrassment of riches, nor am I especially desperate to identify farang women who might be interested in me in the U.S..

Perhaps this LOS syndrome is more complicated than it would appear?

(...)

June 15, 2004 6:21 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Fr�ulein.

A "Fraulien" is what creditors resort to when they've already asserted a claim against your house, car and boat.

(...)

June 15, 2004 6:30 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

"For the record, while perhaps not the prize Greg is, I'm 36, 5'9" 163 lbs., 5-days-a-week at the gym, no cigarettes, rarely drink alcohol, full head of hair, clear olive complexion, Ivy Leaguer, -- and I have my teeth cleaned every three months."

Holy cow. I think I might be gay.

(...)

June 15, 2004 6:45 AM

JAM says:

Tanai,

Ok I give up, you're just silly. My mistake I thought you were seriously debating the point.

Rape is the extreme.. and of course I know where No means NO came from.

Again you twist to try to make your point valid, it's still not.

NO should mean no. If that is what we believe for rape it should be that way for anything.

When was the last time any woman took no for an answer when they asked something of their mate???? Not very often... but flip it around, (you can exclude rape as you want to use that for shock value). Imagine any man asking his partner to run to the store for him, to clean up the kitchen after him, to do any little thing around the house, if the woman does not want to do so and says NO. Do you really believe the man is going to be any further ahead if he continues to bug and bully her??? Of course he won't... so he won't ask again, he'll do it himself or not do it depending on how lazy he is...the woman said NO so in her mind it means no...but if the man says no about anything it means keep bugging until you get your way...

Funny how you don't (can't, won't?) see how hypocritical most women are... No does mean NO in a sexual situation to 90+% of the population...

You can continue to play if you wish I will go back to lurking... my mistake for thinking you might have just missed the point, I didn't realize you were just trolling, enjoy the fishing...

Peace

June 15, 2004 7:45 AM

Diana says:

Here is my simple definition of a Winner i.e. Everything you guys are NOT.

Di

June 15, 2004 8:38 AM

moss man says:

The best sex is often when you least expect it.
Encounters where "no" led to "yes," back to "no,"
finally "Oh-yes!" Thrills, chills, spills; but mostly
patience and determination. Never let her think
she's lost control of the situation, and if she
really means no, there's always tommorow.

Rita, Dianna

whhrreoow! (disgusted, long, slow whistle)

A good deal of western men go to LOS exactly for the reasons you say, don't they. Back home they pay far more and get alot less for the same kind of attention, eventually supporting a female version of the man you describe. I don't need to describe to you what this female "mutant" version looks like. That would be petty, I'm not that angry, and you've already read it elsewhere on this site.

All Mr Peter asks is: "Dianna could you tell us what you think a winner is when it comes to a bloke." But you... well, there you go again...you just couldn't help yourself. Then again you're probably a spoiled, overexpectant bleep who uses words like "awsome," and "totally amazing" to describe your single girlfriends in group therapy. You were talking about their personalities, weren't you? Get off the mushroom cap Alice. Actually don't, that would dissapoint me. Blame it on someone else! That's what so many western(esp american) women are conditioned to do, and that's what we've come to expect from them. If your sticky-smugness wasn't rooted in such loathing for men I wouldn't have as much a motive for disliking your type would I? Perhaps your fears originate from within? You are western so this would be the case. I'd feel inadequate if I were a you in LOS also. But enough bashing; putting someone down based solely on their physical appearance is for cheap shot artists, the angry and confused, and you are clearly all of these.

June 15, 2004 9:10 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Jam,

In my opinion, your thought processes are muddled. You are so passionate about this point of yours -- "about how hypocritical most women are" -- that you seem incapable of absorbing any information that does not explicitly affirm the conclusions you've reached in your experience as a serially henpecked man. Clearly, you've been hurt before. The prism through which you view the world has resulted in certain unusual but bold statements, most recently:

"NO should mean no. If that is what we believe for rape it should be that way for anything."

I'm not even sure what to do with that.

"You can continue to play if you wish I will go back to lurking..."

No need to go back to lurking on my account. If you have nothing to say that's on you.

(...)

June 15, 2004 9:53 AM

Errant says:

'No means no' doesn't work on the Indian tailor touts, those cads of commerce.

June 15, 2004 9:57 AM

scamp says:

you are such a cunt TANAI KWAI or maybe you realy are indeed a female masqerading under the above name. Your true identity being TANIA WAKI
fucking wacky to say the least.

June 15, 2004 10:00 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Scamp, you are remarkably illiterate. Is your real name "Koko" by chance?

(...)

June 15, 2004 10:06 AM

Chopper Harris says:

Tanai. 5' 9'' - you're a fucking dwarf. Do you wear Cuban heels (or can't you get them because of the embargo ?).

June 15, 2004 4:19 PM

scamp says:

Thank fuck Chopper Harris is back,give more postings please to keep me sane from fucking wacky tania , greg (another cunt) mr peter (photo finish with wacky but tk got the nod)
sorry i am not a blues fan but love your postings.
(maybe it was you that kicked the shit out of me at stamford years ago lol )

June 15, 2004 5:26 PM

John U says:

Oh no,

The schizos are back.

:<(

June 15, 2004 5:42 PM

scamp says:

sorry i forgot to include you in my posting john u.
(another prize cunt you are )
i think this is a very good site and is being devoided from the shite that comes out from the affor mentioned. i think i have had enough and going to return to thaivisa for more straight no crap talk. sorry david, excellent site but full of wankers that monolapise every thread.

June 15, 2004 6:08 PM

D says:

TK, no, that was me who called you a 'boring fucking wanker' the other day. gorillas cant read or write english, although im sure you could waste a huge research grant trying to prove otherwise. i do agree, however, that you are also a cunt.

June 15, 2004 6:20 PM

tonychang says:

scamp
you arent uncle wetcircle/mr shithot etc, by any chance? on another note I'm quite happy to be called a loser so long as it aint "leee oooh zher" like them cunts out of Friends say it.

June 15, 2004 6:50 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

CHOPPY! Welcome home, lad. We missed you.

"Tanai. 5' 9'' - you're a fucking dwarf."

If you are assisted by a couple of zoologists in standing fully upright I've no doubt you tower over most men. From what I gather your genetic provenance is roughly the same as that of the Piltdown man.

Do you wear Cuban heels (or can't you get them because of the embargo ?)."

It's safe to say I would wear Cuban heels if I could get my hands on them. The "Zorro" look becomes me. Damn this embargo and all those who support it...

Scamp scrawls,

"i think i have had enough and going to return to thaivisa for more straight no crap talk."

"Crap talk" sounds very alluring but I admit I am not sure what it means. Is it hardcore sex talk about Thailand? Is it talk about one's stool? What? If someone would tell me I'm sure my new persona, CRAPTALKER4U will be very accomodating.

D belches,

"gorillas cant read or write english"

Christ, you can't either but you still manage to post.

(...)

June 15, 2004 8:31 PM

Chopper Harris says:

Piltdown man. Played against him back in the 70's. Used to go down too easy in the box though (bit like you eh Tanai). What position did you used to play again ? We could have done with a nippy little midget back then. "He's short, he's bent, his arse is up for rent - Tanai Kwai, Tanai Kwai" I can almost hear the crowd now.

Best wishes.

Chopper

June 15, 2004 9:21 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

"Used to go down too easy in the box though (bit like you eh Tanai)."

I've been known to go down in, on and around the box with little prompting, but that's hardly been a liability.

Well-played.

(...)

June 15, 2004 9:41 PM

David says:

Rita

You're betraying the fact that you've never been to Thailand. Don't believe the silly stories put about by the media that all the farang men who live here are fat ugly drunks with halitosis. They're merely sensationalising. The real story here is the amazing allure of Thai women.

If you ever visit Thailand, you'll meet an average cross-section of men of all ages and social backgrounds who are crazy about their Thai girlfriends. Some guys are old and ugly (it's not a crime) and some are male-model material but most fall somewhere in between. I'm sorry to pop your bubble, Rita, but most of us choose Thai women out of preference - not desperation. Farang girls who want to keep their man (regardless of his age or appearance) should start praying that he never gets to meet a Thai woman.

PS. You got my hair colour wrong.

David

June 15, 2004 10:23 PM

Rita says:

Tania Kwai:

Ohmigod...Ivy Leaguer?? So you are physically AND intellectually superior/stunning??? I should have known (good grief, how fortunate are those TGs, huh?)...O.k., o.k., so you skew the curve reflecting the physical attractiveness of American men trawling for SE Asian women slightly upward...But really, how many other men of this TG-loving genre from U.S. would rate close to you on any "quality" indicator (I take it you're well endowed, as well; not that its any of my business, of course;-))

David:

Sorry to hear your hair is dark...kind of a let down, but I'll be fine--its just that [natural] blond-haired men are The Bomb...just something about honey-colored hair in the Nether Regions & milky white skin that I find exquisite on a male body...but I digress...oh gosh, where was I??;-))

Oh yes... my assertion regarding the individual & collective rating of men who seek women in SE Asia (as opposed to Japan, Korea, Singapore, HK, etc) was not limited to those chosing to LIVE in LOS, or for that matter, any of the SE Asian countries. Rather, my hypothesis includes all Western men who have gone to the trouble of actively seeking a SE Asian woman for a gf/wife, by either VISITING those countries, OR opting to reside there b/c of the women (although I'm not sure I should include those assigned by Multi-nationals to live in SE Asia, temporarily, or at least those that did not approach their company asking for an assignment in a SE Asian country simply to have access to the indigenous women, but who may have ended up w/one as a result of living there). This of course, would be a much larger population-- a MUCH larger population that just those Western/U.S men RESIDING in LOS...

And again, I'm talking about an average/%, here. So taking, say, a simple random sample of 100 U.S. men, 30 - 50 yrs old (in this context may be considered a stratified random sample) who have either visited &/or lived in LOS, b/c they find Thai women to be The Bomb & who fit the remaining population parameters, HOW MANY/WHAT % (e.g., not, is every possible type/subset of U.S. males who chase Thai women contained w/i this sample, b/c if the sample is drawn completely randomly, theoretically it should be by definition representative of & generalizable to the entire population) of this sample of 100 do you think would classify on a scale of 1-10 by U.S. standards, appearance wise?

That is the research question on the table...Yes, I realize that w/i such a sample, most all types would be represented from the population targeted. I'm not disputing that. My research question has more to do with sample population statistics: what type of man is predominantly represented here, as compared to their control group counterparts, whom have never been interested in seeking a female for a gf/wife in SE Asia/LOS, much less done so, in the past 30 yrs?

Unfortunately, to conduct such research we would have to obtain accurate photos/physiological metrics for each experimental group subject, taken immed prior to his 1st visit to LOS, or whatever SE Asian country it may be, say, (dental photos/perio charts/radiographs included, hehehe;-)) to find his dream girl. & then analyze the entire sample & compare results to the control group sample. I still say, the control group sample would be broader in range, qualitatively (there are such exquisitely gorgeous heteros*xual men here in the U.S., many of whom would NEVER consider dating/marrying a SE Asian female & could therefore not even be included in the experimental group/sample, but would have to be included in the control group), & would contain, on average, a much smaller number of physical "mutants/retards/rejects", etc.

Sure wish I could conduct such a study to prove it!! First we would have to gather a list of all those men who fit the study parameters/know what the entire population consists of, which is an unachievable goal to begin with, so it will have to wait...but wouldn't it be interesting to test in reality, no???;-)

June 16, 2004 4:41 AM

John U says:

Rita,

Who cares really? ;<)) I don't know why the guys argue with you. ;<))

We go, we enjoy it. If you wish to believe we are fat ugly losers so be it. ;<0

You are a typical lady from Western society who hates market forces moving against you. ;<(

Thai ladies are driving your prices down slowly but surely, and the Thai ladies are selling a better product.

Who could blame you for not liking it, and trying to convince guys not to go, because you ladies will think of them as pathetic losers and they will never get a decent western lady again.

You know better though don't you?

June 16, 2004 6:10 AM

Bruce Mangosteen says:

I don't know, seems to me that often if not always, if men state a preference for Asian women in this blog, any Western woman who answers does so by attacking the man in various ways, rather than examining his statement for whether it has any truth to it.

Ladies, some Western men prefer Asian women. Some of that number prefer Thais. Not all of us are leering semi-retards with Singha wife-beater t-shirts, too-short Camel knock-off shorts, black socks and ersatz Nike sandals, looking for 16 year old girls to boink the night away.

Take me for example. I am not young. Not thin. Gone salt 'n pepper. No fancy clothes. No snazzy car. No big house. Not a "babe magnet" type. However, I am hit on fairly regularly by women (including just this past Saturday night when I spent half of it gently shaking off a not-bad-looking girl).

Why do (at least some) girls seem to like me? I'm a professional, not bad looking (I'm told), have some money to spend and don't mind spending it, like to have fun and laugh, play a musical instrument, am pretty outgoing and have lots of friends, am pretty well traveled, and can hold a reasonably intelligent conversation, just like all the polls say that girls want.

I prefer Asian women. Specifically, I like Thai girls. I have had a number of non-prostitute Asian girls interested in me in various countries (had a girl in the PRC ask me out last year; not a "working" girl; this is practically unknown there) but I just like the character of the Thai girls best. Yes, I have a Thai girlfriend.

When we men say we like Thai women, by the way, we don't mean we like to or want to pay for sex. We really like these girls, and prefer their company. Why?

In my own humble opinion, we Westerners have somehow lost the distinction between "equality" and "sameness". I don't mind at all if a woman is accorded equal rights in social, legal, and political circumstances. I just don't want to be married to a woman who is the SAME as me. That is to say, I believe that (some if not many) Western women feel that to be equal to men, they must be the SAME as men. Talk the same. Dress the same. Act the same. Move the same way. Well, in the office, fine, makes no difference to me. In bed, no thanks.

While Asian women are rarely submissive or retiring, they are at the same time feminine. Although Asian women are strong-willed and determined, they are rarely aggressive or forceful. Asian girls generally dress in a very stylish way, feminine and sexy, but not sluttishly (mostly, gum-snapping veterans aside). We like these things.

Frankly, some of us are a little old fashioned about our relationships with women. We want a WOMAN on our arm, not a fellow human who is just like us except it happens to have different genitalia. That's how I see it, anyway.

Also, ladies, please note that Thailand is not the only place where girls sell sex. They do it in all Western countries. We don't have to go all the way to Thailand to buy a girl's services. Although hour-by-hour, trick-by-trick, Thai prosties might be cheaper, once you figure in the airfare, hotel, food, and everything else, I suspect that most guys could save at least some money and certainly a lot of hassle by simply going to the local massage parlor if all they want is to reduce the hydraulic pressure occasionally.

Guys, part of the problem here is that many men who go to Thailand talk of women acting like "ladies", then go around like rutting dogs, the furthest thing from "gentlemen". This hypocricy does not help our case, either with the farang girls OR the Thai girls. Both farang and Thai women see that sort of behavior as the flip-side of the canniving, dishonest behavior of the bargirls. And, they all have a point. So, maybe we all have a little self-examination to do here.

By the way, in another of my humble opinions, the "equality" versus "sameness" issue pervades Western cultures. Take racial attitudes. I certainly expect citizens of all ancestries to be afforded equal rights in my country. However, it makes no difference to me if they dress or talk or worship differently than I do. I believe we should each be what God made us, and rejoice and enrich ourselves from the gift of human diversity. We should not seek to stamp it out by believing that "equality" must mean we are all identical. We might live in a better world if we could learn to live with our innate discomfort with the unfamiliar, and accept human diversity as a blessing rather than a curse.

To summarize: Some of us really like Asian women. This despite the fact that we have other choices. We are put off by Western women for many of the same reasons we are put off by other aspects of Western culture.

Ladies, why not examine the underlying issues? Rather than pointing out the easiest examples of bad behavior in Thailand, the sleazebags who simply use working girls as cum-dumpsters for 2 weeks, and tarring all of us with that brush, how 'bout listening to what we're saying? That we can't seem to get you to hear us when we say these things is part of why we're looking outside our own culture in the first place.

OK, that's it. Ladies, flail away. But, after you close your browser window, please at least consider some of these points.

June 16, 2004 6:14 AM

TANAI KWAI says:

Rita,

"So you are physically AND intellectually superior/stunning???"

Nice of you to gild the lily so generously. Hope the above posts illuminate the male perspective.

Bruce writes,

"I have had a number of non-prostitute Asian girls interested in me in various countries (had a girl in the PRC ask me out last year; not a "working" girl; this is practically unknown there)..."

Are we talking about the same PRC?

(ay ay ay)

June 16, 2004 8:43 AM

moss man says:

I say way to go Bruce...

that was a fucking great post!

Stop going after the symptoms,

go after the root of the problem.

Whew!

June 16, 2004 9:19 AM

moss man says:

And you weren't a pretentious cunt either!

June 16, 2004 9:20 AM

Errant says:

An interesting feature of Rita's writing, perhaps the only interesting feature, is that she had to learn how to be incoherent. Would appear very likely that sometime, somewhere, an academy instructed Rita in the art of willful obscurity. Hope she didn't pay too much. You can get that stuff for free.

June 16, 2004 9:59 AM

Bruce Mangosteen says:

TK:

About the PRC girl - It's actually even just a little nicer than I portrayed it: A friend of mine who was a Taiwan Chinese was there with me, and she told him in my presence (in Chinese) that she wished she could be my girlfriend. He translated this to me in her presence, and she didn't even flinch, looking at me earnestly instead. I thought this was VERY sweet (although I was understandably floored, given their reticense about talking of this stuff to begin with, nevermind to a THIRD PARTY).

She and I haven't seen each-other for 8 months now, but we still correspond by e-mail occasionally. I was, and still am, flattered by her attention. She sends me a picture of herself every now and then. Not bad...

Bruce

June 16, 2004 1:53 PM

John U says:

Bruce,

I'm adding my praise to all you've already had for your posting.

I think you should maybe check out the prices of paying for a woman in your country though.

I discovered the web site of a prostitute in the UK (she has been in the news), and one night with her is nearly double the cost of the economy air fare to BKK from the UK.

Makes Thailand extremely economical even when all costs are considered.

June 16, 2004 2:09 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

Bruce,

A warm moment, indeed.

I was actually just making reference to my own observations of the PRC regarding the availability of working girls. I have found that you can't swing a hooker without hitting a prostitute. Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, Hainan, Zhuhai (not to speak of HK and Macau). It's not always as in-your-face but they are everywhere.

(cheers)

June 16, 2004 9:09 PM

scamp says:

TK have you got nowt better to do then get all your oxford concises out all day and post here 24/7 ?
what a sad twat you indeed are. you dont fucking own this site so dont go on and on and on,what a cunt !

June 16, 2004 9:44 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

Scamp,

How dare you? I would never use the Oxford "Concise" as a reference. And you call yourself a scholar.

(kindly suck me)

June 16, 2004 9:56 PM

Anonymous says:

if i type "TANAI KWAI" into my online thesaurus, it just comes up with ... "CUNT"

June 18, 2004 3:51 AM

Scamp says:

Typing TANAI KWAI in my anagram software comes up with the strangely apt - I WANK IT AA

June 18, 2004 6:12 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

Scump,

Your mother and I often enjoy playing with your "anagram software" as a sort of foreplay. The last few times the words she's chosen have spelled:

SHAG MY ASSHO
I DRINK YA
and
COCK N BALLS SAME TYME

Lovely lady -- just not especially subtle.

(...)

June 18, 2004 7:48 PM

Scamp says:

Wow, the software just came up with -

AIN'T I A TWAT(K)

I must e-mail this to your mum, so she can quickly get it tattooed on her ass - over that bad scar I left there, as a souvenir!

June 21, 2004 4:14 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

This is highly objectionable.

JAM,

Do I have a lawsuit here or what?

(...)

June 21, 2004 8:11 PM

passing on passive aggressive says:

�Let's eat here�

�Oh, no!�

�Why not?�

�Mai shop.�

�Tamai?�

�I don't like.�

�Why - did you eat there before?�

�Yes.�

�When?�

�No, I didn't.�

�So how do you know if the food is good or bad?�

�Yes, I ate there before. I mean, no, I didn't.�

�So why do you think it's bad there?�

She just waves her hand in the air and smiles and starts to walk on.

I turned around and walked the other way. After a few minutes we met up and I told her that I was going home without her. She caught up with me at my motorbike, but I didn't let her on, and drove home.

July 4, 2004 11:45 PM

John U says:

Obviously prior farang boyfriend in residence

:<))

July 5, 2004 1:53 AM

Dana says:

Regarding the above thread: up, down--in, out--yes, no--she said, he said--right, wrong--male, female--it's all a waste of time. All you have is what you have. The past is gone and the future may never arrive. The only thing that counts is when someone is smiling at you or in your arms. All else is time wasted. Stop judging others and stop judging yourself. Just find someone to put your arms around. On your death bed you won't remember anything you said or anything anyone else said. And for god's sake stop defending yourself. Only the weak and the insignificant need to defend themselves. Lose the need to defend your point-of-view and you are Invinsible. I am never stronger and happier than when I am not defending myself.

July 5, 2004 2:20 AM

John U says:

Gives you a lot of satisfaction to turn the other cheek Dana? :<)

I know you give it between the cheeks from your other writings, but ......

Don't defend yourself, it'll make you unhappy. :<)

July 5, 2004 3:41 AM

Passing on PA says:

I don't know Dana. Your philosophy of living in the female arms of the now sounds indiscriminate. Boundaries are required for survival. You want to be repeatedly emotionally or physically abused? That's weird. I prefer to have boundaries and standards.

I'm looking for a new female to be my Ms. Now.

July 5, 2004 4:10 AM

PoPA says:

Dana, as I was driving home tonight I was reminded of your story of dumping a girl in the middle of nowhere after she had crossed the line with you.

You've got to have a line. Everyone has a line. Women who habitually cross it in order to communicate have their efforts backfire. Thai communication styles are opaque to me. How can anyone think that being a pouty bitch is going to get me to pay MORE attention to her?

July 5, 2004 4:48 AM

stu_$ says:

some top notch reading there !
compared to bangkok post anyway...
i forced myself to read the posts by diana and rita
now i cam i honestly say it was something akin to masturbating with a cheese grater...slightly amusing but mostly painful !

July 5, 2004 7:33 AM

Dark Knight says:

Dear Dana,

Regarding the above thread: up, down--in, out--yes, no--she said, he said--right, wrong--male, female--it's all a waste of time. All you have is what you have. The past is gone and the future may never arrive. The only thing that counts is when someone is smiling at you or in your arms. All else is time wasted. Stop judging others and stop judging yourself. Just find someone to put your arms around. On your death bed you won't remember anything you said or anything anyone else said. And for god's sake stop defending yourself. Only the weak and the insignificant need to defend themselves. Lose the need to defend your point-of-view and you are Invisible. I am never stronger and happier than when I am not defending myself.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

What nonsense.
Please translate this into plain English as this sounds like pure nihilistic psychobabble.

It comes across as typical New Age drivel, "go with the flow/don't worry be happy/all you need is love".

So what are you saying? When a Women insults or demeans you, just smile and be nice?

When the legal system takes away your property,children and half your income just whip out your guitar and sing some John Denver?

If Men followed what you just posted we'd still be in caves and sleeping in our piss.

Progress is made when some Man got angry or upset at the way things were and took action.

He learned to make fire/make tools/hunt better/migrate to a warmer clime/learn how to plant, harvest and store food to break the cycle of feast or famine.

When their countries were attacked Men banded together to fight and preserve their way of life from invaders and predators.

Life is a constant struggle Dana, modern life has made things relatively soft so Men like you can pontificate and tell us that "life is pointless, you're going to die and nothing matters in the end".

Life is full of misfortune and pain but instead of learning from them these Men get stepped on constantly and are deluded that this is life and to accept this.
You also slam the door on any reasonable debate or disagreement by labeling any who do as "weak and insignificant".
I'd respect your view more if you had the balls to stand by them and debate their worth point by point with any reasonable poster.

Men who believe in what you espouse are called by another name, "doormats".
They sit in their lotus position and chant "Say nothing,think nothing,do nothing, and all will become clear to you".

Meanwhile life passes them by, opportunities,mates, friends are lost because they are too blissed out to get angry or motivated so they never dare.
Yes,I got angry and upset but decided to do something about it.
I flew to LOS, did a Recon of various cities, talked to expats and made up my mind.
I came back, sold most of my possessions and came back.
I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life and I don't regret it.

I guess you're not going to say anything because you said only "the weak and insignificant" defend themselves.

Dark Knight

July 6, 2004 12:28 AM

Greg says:

What did you decide regarding your city of choice, DK? And why?

I'm in Chiang Mai for now, but have plans to rent some beach property on a resort island in the near future.

I agree with the thrust of your post. As a Bhuddist I often bump into Flow Fascists who wait for Karma and the Miracle of Coincidence to direct their life. Uh huh. How about the miracle of coincidentally making a choice. That ability is not outide of "the flow". Nothing is.

I'm with you that relative happiness matters, and that it takes relative contemplations and relative actions to deal appropriately with the many relative levels of the world we live in. Acceptance is not enough, otherwise heroin would be enough.

July 6, 2004 10:56 AM

Dark Knight says:

Dear Greg,

What did you decide regarding your city of choice, DK? And why?
>>>>>>>>>>.
I've lived in Khorat for 5 months and have not regretted it.
It's not Pattaya but it does have a decent nightlife and farang amenities.
It's way cheaper than BKK.
And BKK is only a 3 hour bus ride away.
>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm in Chiang Mai for now, but have plans to rent some beach property on a resort island in the near future.
>>>>>>.
Sounds really good.
>>>>>>..
I agree with the thrust of your post. As a Bhuddist I often bump into Flow Fascists who wait for Karma and the Miracle of Coincidence to direct their life. Uh huh. How about the miracle of coincidentally making a choice. That ability is not outide of "the flow". Nothing is.
>>>>>>>>
I was heavily into New Age for years, doing est,tarot, dreamwork, etc.
and was disappointed to find that the adherants were no more compassionate, wiser or more evolved than any other.
I do like people into "tough" spirituality who don't take the easy way out and
try to think about the nature of things.
>>>>>>>>
I'm with you that relative happiness matters, and that it takes relative contemplations and relative actions to deal appropriately with the many relative levels of the world we live in. Acceptance is not enough, otherwise heroin would be enough.
>>>>>>>>.
Yes, exactly!
It's like what Woody Allan says," I don't want to be mellow because I'll
ripen and then I'l rot".
One can become self-deluded gazing at one's navel and ignoring Life.

Thanks,

Dark Knight