Bar girl in suburbia #1: Thai mail order bride

mr peter says:

A sterotypical view of what can happen, and sometimes does. I wonder what the success rate is? I certainly know a lot of guys who seem to have happy marriages with former bar girls. Bargirl is not a type of person, just a job and within the profession there are all sorts, just as in any other walk of life. If you were going for marriage you would not be on the lookout for a girl who smoked, drank, had tattoos, had been working for more than a few months or who was not picky about who barfined her. Also you would be looking for a gal with a bit of grey matter who was intrested in study and getting out. Not all bargirls are marriage material, far from it but then not all the customers are either.-peter

Tiger says:

Interesting indeed. However does this adhere to age gaps? For example, is the man 50 ish and the girl in her teens? What if the male suitor was a young party animal, who just wanted to bring home a companion, or aka slash f--buddy to spend wild nights dancing and partying in his area with a large Thai community? (sigh!) I would never dispute you on this because I know this subject can move both ways.......

Just being curious...

TANAI KWAI says:

Now then, where were we?

"Who you know don't mean jackall shite in getting US visas these days."

Frankie, you are incorrect. Is this the first time?

(...)

Frankie Fine says:

I am not incorrect. I used to work in government myself. Go read a book, assuming you know how to read.

Ragtopmuse says:

I agree let's bring back the fun ... who's first?

TANAI KWAI says:

"I used to work in government myself."

Gosh. In that case, I withdraw my statement. So if you have a close relationship with a prominent government leader with committee oversight over immigration matters that wouldn't help? Oh, okay. Well, that's as it should be then.

Moral: Life is fair after all.

(...)

Greg says:

Greg: "That's not irony?"

TK: Nope. Just pedestrian sarcasm, I'm afraid.

From Merriam-Webster online:

Irony:
the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance.

From Webster online, category Legal Dictionary:
IRONY, rhetoric. A term derived from the Greek, which signifies dissimulation. It is a refined species of ridicule, which, under the mask of honest simplicity or ignorance, exposes the faults and errors of others, by seeming to adopt or defend them.

So according to at least some recognized definitions of irony, much of your writing is ironic. Irony Man sounds a lot better than Sarcasm Man anyway.

Frankie Fine says:

Apologies. I suppose if you had a close friend in the director of homeland security that may help you out. But, remember, this isn't Asia. It's not likely that anyone high profile is going to stick their neck out to do a favour in such a dodgy case.

Unfortunately, US immigration policy is "fair" in it's own way. It is fair in that just about anyone (excepting felons) has an equal chance of getting visas or attaining other acceptable status. Cab driver or PhD, everyone's got an almost equal shot.

BUT, of course, there are quotas for certain classes of visa (these are always way over subscribed): such as the high-tech worker visas (for all those engineers), H1-Bs, student visas, etc. There used to (this was a few years back when i was in healthcare admin) even be a special visa for nurses, as there was a shortage in the US. This resulted in there being tonnes of Flipper nurses in US hospitals (and many babes amongst them).

But, as we all know, the rules have changed since 9-11. Unless Mr. Captain America is close friends with the Bush family, it's gonna be even money between his girl or a pakistani cab driver. And, as we know (tks Michael Moore), the Bushes are unlikely to stick their necks out for any more unsavoury characters....tho i'd think they'd rather do favours for thai ho's than for smelly Saudis.

TANAI KWAI says:

Greg,

Okay, but you will grant me that sarcasm, defined below in yer Merriam-Webster online, is but the lowest, most brutish form of irony:

1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain.
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm.

Also, be careful with the superhero references as there is still an opening available for "Douche Man" and I would hate to see some less sublimely ironic poster to saddle you with that sobriquet.

(...)

TANAI KWAI says:

Frankie,

Agreed, except that some Saudis are quite fragrant.

(...)

Captain America says:

I'm a Libertarian, with disdain for both major parties, nepotism, or falsehood.

I love her. She worked in a bar for six weeks. I have plenty of resources to sustain her, and she will soon have a high TOEFL score (to match her high GPA in high school). We have meticulous records, I have poured money, visits, trips and oother assets to her and family. The age gap is not huge, but certainly visible.

We will be honest. if declined, a fully registered Thai marriage is next up. That should work. I am also seriously thinking of buying the house in Chiang mai.

BTW, my VERY wealthy friend 9the one who brought me to Thailand, and built a school in Ubon) has high ranking Ministry of Education friends in LOS, and contacts in US State. I would not dream of asking him for a favor. She will come to the US, or I will move to chiang Mai. Teaching English for a year would do me well, I am very bored running a division for a large Japanese multinational. VERY!

I will put the house in her name, and also start a triathlete retreat in her name. If she rips me off, I will come home. And post honestly about the experience. At this point, she deserves the money for some damn good subterfuge.

I am really shocked at the vituperative nature of some of the posts. I'm not trying to drop names, or introduce bragadocio. I am much poorer than my pre-divorce, NASDAQ 5000 days. Merely wanted to set the background properly. I can give her a better life long term, than a quick rip off. We have sanuk together. I'm a cool guy, who likes the things she does. Music. Travel. Study. The bed. She teaches me to relax, i teach her intensity. She will soon be pregnant, and I will provide well for our children.

If not? I suspect meeting another women while living in Chiang Mai will not be too hard for me!

Choke Dii Khrap

CA

Combover says:

What's going on here?

Is this some clever spam virus taking posts from other threads, or some miserable twat with nothing better to do than cut and paste other people's comments?

ze stiick says:

"If not? I suspect meeting another women while
living in Chiang Mai will not be too hard for me!"

Okay, now y'all sounding mortal like.

The question how one stays married even with the
best of intentions is played out nicely, I would imagine,
if money is no object in Chiang Mai. Hmmn... shouldn't you
be making allowances now for any future dallainces?
Can't see ordering the same dinner for the rest of my life frankly.
Whoops, hardcore cynic-nature surfacing this post, must've
been because I slept at a Pine St Inn last night.

Zee

Greg says:

"I am really shocked at the vituperative nature of some of the posts. I'm not trying to drop names, or introduce bragadocio. "

That's one of the strangest lessons taught by web-boards. On this board you'll find several examples of posters who do nothing other than insult other posters. Never one kind word, never one issue discussed. It's really weird.

On any web-board you'll find posters there for different reasons, with different attitudes. Some are so different from mine that there is often no reason to communicate. The high school popularity contest mentality always shocks me. Some people feel that discussion means trying to include or exclude someone from a group, and the means to do so is to tell them whether they are a jerk or not.

Don't take it personally - many of the negative posts you've received have nothing at all to do with you.

Captain America says:

Thanks Greg! After 27 hours in the air, had to catcvh a plane to Richmond, VA this evening. I am in a musty, bug infested Hapton Inn near the airport. It is muggy outside, and the "locals" seem rather grumpy and hostile. I am a long way from LOS, and missing it. Even the street vendors take more pride in their efforts than the folks here.

Yes, I need to have tough skin to open my life to a blog. But still, intelligent discourse or no discourse has always been my motto. I guess, given the underlying theme is shagging women we have to pay for... :-)

CA

PS Have decided to visit her again in 4 weeks, not the six I had mentioned. This is killing me logistically, professionally and ultimately is material fiscally. But, she is worth it.

Anonymous says:

", it's gonna be even money between his girl or a pakistani cab driver. "

Uh, no, not exactly.
There are no quotas for fiancÈ or spousal visas. Except for adding some extra bureaucratic stuff, the move to the BCIS and Homeland Security has not changed the fiancÈ or spousal visa programs and fiancÈ visas are almost automatic as before.
If CA applies for the fiancÈ visa, and his girl has no police record in Thailand, it should take about 9-12 months to process and the visa to be issued in Bangkok.

CA,
I know you have been having fun here, but for serious advice I suggest you try:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ThaiFalang
TH

E says:

If Captain America is half the pretentious, arrogant, windbag in person as in his posts, she will leave him soon enough.

Give her a year or two to acclimate to America. Then its, ìI get half his money when I leave plus don't have to listen to his condescending shit anymore.î

Iron clad pre-nup? A sixth grade educated Thai does not have the capacity to understand her rights under American law. You will be paying for her top notch lawyer. Picture her in divorce court, crying. ìYour Honor, sniff, sniff. He was mean to me.î Big puppy brown eyes, looking all angelic. Americas a woman's world. Beautiful young girl with BG morals and manipulation techniques. LOL

CA, you just want someone to feel superior to. And if your such a corporate superman, have you considered how marrying a Thai hooker will impact your career.

Snobby WASPS and members of the religious right don't look kindly on people who marry outside their religion and culture. They will view it as traitorous, unchristian, a character flaw, a symptom of future mental breakdown. Don't kid yourself. The upper echelons of corporate America are just as class conscious and racist as anywhere else. You WILL be ostracized from your snobby upper crust world.

Of course, you could become a novelist. I think you would be quite good at dime store romance.

PS Excellent commentary from the guys on the board. I envy your patience to write such long, well crafted replies. I can't stop alternating between laughing, shaking my head in disbelief, and hoping he gets whats coming to him.

Frankie Fine says:

Well said, E. It's good to see there are a few out there who still have some senses about them.

I personally find this story of a sex tourist dumping his cash and "fiancee visas" on a teen prostitute amusing. While clearly he is mostly full of shite and has an incessant need to pump himself up in his posts, he will get what's coming to him.

I DO think you actually need to live in Asia for a few years to really "get it". This guy will "get it" but it will be something else he gets (read: taken to the cleaners).

Then again, there are whole villages upcountry built with the cash of dumbass sex tourists...so, perhaps he's just a simple-minded philanthropist.

Oh, and thanks for the stuff about the "high GPA" and "high TOEFL"...that really had me giggling. Show of hands to see who's buying that tripe?

Captain America says:

Frankie et al,

Your vituperative bullshit cracks me up! WHAT, pray tell has caused such angst at the happiness of others? :-)

I am no more simple minded than any other man in love. Marriage is lately a horrific risk for men in the US. The numbers for divorce indicate as such, and they do not include seperations, or thosed who stay in the relationship though miserable.

Khai gives me a sense of serenity, happiness, worth (I like to provide, 'tis socio-biology), and even belonging. I could care less about the corporate ladder, and since my bosses are all Japanese presidents, they just smile wryly.

My ex had sex prior to our marriage, probably with five guys. She was a debutante. She did drugs, mostly pot and a little coke. She was 21 when I met her. It was fun, then failed.

Khai was a brave kid. I have checked out every nuance of her story, seen the crushing poverty she came from first hand. I have her diploma, medical history, police history (she crashed a motorcycle at age 16), she handed me her bank statement, I have read all of her e-mail, have background checks on all of her friends. I am no dupe, I have done my homework.

I have been very candid with her, the good, bad and ugly of life in America. I have treated her with love, dignity, honor, pride, and in many ways awe. She is a smart lady, and I have enough such friends and acquantinces to know how to benchmark such things. Queue up a Stanford Binet or WAIS IQ test, and I peg her around 150.

She could cheat on me, i could cheat on her. I like to think, we are both fulfilled and have no need. One would think the last thing BG's want is recreational sex. She does not need more money, I give her very liberally. I can afford what i give to her.

This is a classic example of good news being attacked, ablated, decried. Many on this board have had negative experiences, and I KNOW that so far I am one of the lucky ones.

Last night, had dinner with an associate in Raleigh, NC. Whitebread community known as Wakefield Farms (I think). TPC community. He has three beautiful daughters, a perfect North Carolinian wife, a beautiful home. We looked at pics of Khai on my Mac. Hundreds of them. His wife liked her smile, mentioned the age difference, and then pronounced her someone she would like to meet. Her husband has been to Thailand a few times on business, and probably knows more than he lets on. But he said nothing to me, other than choke dii!

We had dinner in a tony restaurant in Wake Forest. Called Berkenstocks. Great food. The type of place the ex and i would have loved. The type of place Khai will inititally abhor, or recoil from. I have to overcome this past life. It won't be easy. She has resisted all efforts to buy a nice, conservative black dress for such places. "My Mom would wear that." More an age thing, than a class or BG thing.

She worked for six weeks, to raise 30,000 baht for her family. She was terrible at what she did, which is what appealed to me. She was a virgin when she started. She loves to explore, and will have a great life with me. I have a business plan in place, so that if my already tenuous grasp on the corporate rungs slips, a parachute opens.

There is no hyperbole, duplicity, enmity or artifice in this post. Simple. Honest. She wanted to find love, and a man that cares about her. I wanted the same, and someone to call at the end of the day, have fun with, see the world with. If she can learn wine, upgrading kitchens and bathrooms, and the life of a domestic Goddess, I am fulfilled. She already knows champagne, one trip to Napa/Sonoma or The Williamette Valley should fix the rest.

Go ahead. Poke fun. Excoriate. Postulate. Predicate. Masturbate. I have moved on. if it crashes and burns, I will gladly post the carnage. Cheap therapy...

CA

Dongwater says:

Hey all-

I have a great idea. I don't think it would be too hard to collect this Captian's posts and the pics of him and his girl (since he's been dumb enough to post all this info, whether even 10 pc is true or not, there are pics). Let's bundle them together and give them to everyone we know in Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs, immigration, US immigration, etc. I certainly know a few folks at each.

If MR Smarty American reads his fiancee visa forms and background (on the US govt sites) he will note that they will not give visas to those who've engaged in criminal activity, including prostitution.

Mr Captain, your days of being an arrogant prick may soon come to an end.

All those who'd like to give this fucker what he's due, say "aye".

Frankie Fine says:

"tony restaurant in Wake Forest"?

I guess that's like a high-class hotel on the New Jersey Turnpike.

He may have money (if it's true all the crap he says) but he sure don't have no class (as evidenced by his wanting to marry a hooker also).

You can take the boy out of the trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of the boy.

I guess maybe we've all been wrong. He and his hooker are perfect for each other. Farm girl prostitute and white trash american. Heavenly match!

Greg says:

David, I commend your blocking the I.P. of Avid.

I wonder if the same policy that led you to that decision applies to any posters on this thread?

I'm against censorship. However posts that merely spread hatred and that demonstrate complete disinterest in and knowledge of what it means to discuss an issue seem about as useful as the yelling of FIRE in a public place.

Pre-rational folks who have nothing to say except for "shut up you cunt" seem out of place in any public forum.

E says:

CA, do what you want. But don't ask for other's opinions if your not going to listen. Your story is old and tired to anyone experienced in Thailand. Seen this movie a thousands times.

The only thing that made your story interesting is your ability to go on and on about how rich, smart, educated, high class, cultured, and all around perfect you are. Maybe your wife will teach you some humility.

The shopping center on Anderson Lane, just before Lamar, has an Asian Market where your wife can buy lots of Thai foods.

TANAI KWAI says:

"Queue up a Stanford Binet or WAIS IQ test, and I peg her around 150."

Over to you, Greg. In your vast experience, how many of your TGFs would score a 150?

"The shopping center on Anderson Lane, just before Lamar, has an Asian Market where your wife can buy lots of Thai foods."

E, isn't there one by the mall that has kind of a funny or at least absurd name?

Dongwater,

I suggest you let him be. If bliss awaits him, let him enjoy it. If it goes badly, he will suffer all the ill you wish upon him. No need to get ugly.

(...)

Greg says:

"Over to you, Greg. In your vast experience, how many of your TGFs would score a 150?"

I've only dated 10 or 12 and known another 10 or 12. As you know a 150 is about a one in 1000, or something like that.

Haven't met any, but that's to be expected.

ANONYMOUS says:

"Last night, had dinner with an associate in Raleigh, NC. Whitebread community known as Wakefield Farms (I think). TPC community. He has three beautiful daughters"

Good on you Captain. Your wife will have three new friends straight away.

"The only thing that made your story interesting is your ability to go on and on about how rich, smart, educated, high class, cultured, and all around perfect you are. Maybe your wife will teach you some humility."

C'mon E, the Captain is a cool guy. I know, because he said so.

TANAI KWAI says:

"As you know a 150 is about a one in 1000, or something like that... Haven't met any, but that's to be expected."

Greg, this fact is emblematic of the undergirding issue: idealization, fetishism, fantasy. It's fun but the way back down can be a bitch.

(...)

Gimpy1 says:

Captain,

Just what are you a captain of? Do you have your own cereal?

Since you're still dating a bar girl, how does my dick taste?

Greg says:

"Greg, this fact is emblematic of the undergirding issue: idealization, fetishism, fantasy. It's fun but the way back down can be a bitch."

So you are contesting CA's IQ assessment then?

In the US I dated more than one very high IQ woman, but where I lived people of like interests tend to group. That is one serious problem with finding a mate here: the lack of social groups revolving around particular interests.

Greg says:

Oh I forgot - I.Q. for both men and women are standardized to be 100. If they weren't standardized women would have a lower average IQ due to being less skilled at spacial visualization tasks. Testosterone supplements greatly affect this skill in women. There are less women at the higher and lower ends of deviation. At the genius level of a 150 IQ score, there are 10 or 20 times more men than women.

A 150 IQ ability occurs in roughly 1 in 1,100 people, and for women the figure might be about one in 10,000. I spent nearly 20 minutes trying to find accurate figures for women written in these simple terms, but could not find them and don't want to spend the time and effort to learn statistical math to figure it out from the other numbers available.

This web page http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/Definition_of_IQ.html is easy to understand and talks of the vast differences in mental abilities among us. It really is amazing how different people are.

My dad rarely gave me advice. One thing he did tell me is not to underestimate the importance of a large IQ gap between mates.

Dana says:

IQ is everything. I refuse to date a woman who deviates more than 2 points from me. With Thai bargirls under 25 you can get a good approximation by taking their bust measurement and tripling it.

Greg says:

Hi Dana. Ya, I know some people find the idea offensive to exclude intimacy with another based on the ability to communicate verbally.

On average, it isn't a big concern. But most people of near average intelligence wouldn't seriously consider marrying someone severely or even moderately mentally retarded.

That same IQ gap also exists between those of average and those of above average intelligence, also leading to very serious gaps in ability to communicate.

I'm not sure why laying out the dirty details seems trivializing.

Dana says:

Naw, it ain't trivializing righteous dude just depressing like on account of that whole retarded thing kinda keeps me out of the marriage sweepstakes. I was hoping to get through life on charm and good intentions but now I can see I'll be held back from breeding like a roach 'cause I can't play chess. Too bad--the world really needs more children. Not.

Greg says:

Don't worry, dumb people breed more than smart people.

Within a handful of decades the link between intelligence of the parent and that of the child will be voluntary. A quick shot of dna altering virus will be widely available, if not by prescription at least on the black market.

Greg says:

By the way, the future is already here. The technological building blocks for creating a highly virulent dna altering virus that targets genes associated with high IQ already exist. A rich mad scientist could whip one up quite quickly.

TANAI KWAI says:

"So you are contesting CA's IQ assessment then?"

So agreeable. So full of shit.

(and you aren't?)

Greg says:

"So agreeable. So full of shit.

(and you aren't?)"

What's with the disagreeable hostility?

I'm not in a position to agree or disagree. I understand why you'd think the assessment is overblown, but regardless I'm sure there are some smart Thai chicks. It's perfectly possible that CA is dating one. I wouldn't know.

Greg says:

One more thought on this TK. If 10 Mangosauce posters each know 10 Thai girls, chances are good that one of those girls will be of somewhere near genius IQ (135). Statistics can be a bit misleading if taken to mean that the uncommon is improbable.

stu_$ says:

statistics dont prove anything...

22% of people know that ,

chok dee

Greg says:

You can file this post under B for blah.

If you know 10 random folks, chances are 1 in 10 that one of them is a 1 in a 100 rarity.

But if you know 10 random mangosaucers who each know 10 random folks, chances are even than one of them knows a 1 in a 100 rarity. If they all claim to know such a rarity, chances are that some of them are deluded. If none of them claim to know such a rarity, chances are that they under assess their friends. If one of them makes such a claim, then chances are not against the claim.

Greg says:

Nebulous omni directional hostility.

I wake up with it on some days. I visualize guns of several meters in length, and try to imagine the relationship between acceleration allowed for within the barrel length, and distance provided by such acceleration. I can never imagine a target for the bullet.

There was a dramatic documentary movie about the creation of a Super Gun capable of shooting artillery across thousands of kilometers.

Near a divorce, I used to wake up dreaming about shooting arrows into a blank sky.

This forum shows ample examples of nebulous omni directional rage.

I have no concluding remark. This is a nebulous and omnidirectional post.

Captain America says:

Greg,

Your my idea of a great poster, as is both TK and Dana. Erudite, ability to poke fun in omnidirectional bursts.

I ran this morning, Town lake. Few weeks in thailand, California, hong Kong, and Virginia have left me in rather weak condition. Ran 9 miles of hills, up Mt. Bonnell with much better runners than myself. 'Tis how one improves.

Many of you have far more experience than I do in the ways of Asia, thailand, bar girls. I do listen, rather intently. I apologize if my confidence sometimes sounds like bragadoccio, or over-compensation.

I never thought I would go to a bar. never thought I would find Asian women attractive. never thought I would fall in love. Scares me shitless, actually. Much easier to marry a milking farang sow, put up with her incessently nihilistic moaning, endure the inevitable seperation (I just will not take that kind of shit any more, once bitten twice fuck you).

Am i taking a risk she will come here, and deftly remove another 65% of what the fiirst one left me? Sure. I do not know her all that well. Would I be 90% happy dating, fucking and mostly being alone? As I have been the past 2 1/2 years? Sure. But I'm a 100% guy.

So, I soldier onward. it is all I know. Here is a the end to my favorite epic poem. I had it with me in the garage when i tried to kill myself after my divorce. I read it about 20 times, waiting for the Remeron and tequila to facilitate the CO2. The phone rang after about 8 hours in the damn, hot garage. It was a collegue. I guess i sounded a wee bit "different." He called HR. They called the police. They broke down my door. I remember the paramedic said, "it's Ok buddy, your going to be all right. No woman is worth this."

Shooting arrows in the air? Good, clean fun Greg. Khou jai.

XXXIII
Not hear? When noise was everywhere! it tolled
Increasing like a bell. Names in my ears
Of all the lost adventurers, my peers -
How such a one was strong, and such was bold,
And such was fortunate, yet each of old
Lost, lost! one moment knelled the woe of years.

XXXIV
There they stood, ranged along the hillsides, met
To view the last of me, a living frame
For one more picture! In a sheet of flame
I saw them and I knew them all. And yet
Dauntless the slug-horn to my lips I set,
And blew. 'Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came.'

Dongwater says:

Oh, how sad. Tragic really. I've changed my perspective 100 percent. Thank god this website has now become a place for self-medicating confessionals.

I'm driven to tears. In fact, I'm crying on my hot, educated, non-bargirl's shoulders as we speak.

I was suicidal and down in the dumps for quite a bit myself. But instead of blathering on about it on the internet, I had friends.

Captain America says:

Dongwater,

Your luckier than I was. No family, friends were far away. Their common response, "get over her."

Was the turning point of my life. No longer worked hard, or should i say 100+ work weeks. Kept in closer touch with friends. Made many new ones, very different than my past life.

They do not call them "trappings" for nothing! Today? Much less "succesful." Much less concerend. Much happier.

Happy you have an educated lady, and one who did not sell her prized possesions. But hardly think either of us are qualified to judge the other one...

CA

The BOSS says:

57 channels and nothins on

TANAI KWAI says:

Dongwater,

Ease up, man! You are starting to make me look like the fount of compassion. Any perceived self-aggrandizement has been sufficiently leavened at this point, wouldn't you say?

(yikes)

Captain America says:

Thanks TK, Dongwater makes a couple of good points though! No use wallowing in the past.

Cycled about 70 miles this morning. Much time to think, the dreaded component of marrying a TBG. I decide to call my pretty lady. In Thonglor, eating. Aroi. Won't be home tonight, staying at her friend. Maybe going dancing. I get grumpy, FAST!

She calls me 45 minutes later, from our room. She wanted me sabaydee, so she went home. she is afraid of the "pii." Ghost. Christ, I guess Judeo-Christian bullshit like exorcism and Kabala are not the exclusive domain of moronathons?

Told her there were no "pii's" in Texas, and to hurry up and get here!

Alright, I am having reality gut checks. In Thailand, everyone knows I am marrying a hooker. Hell, it is perceived in normal falang-Thai marriages, let alone a vast age difference. What the hell is it going to be like in this moralistic shitbox known as the Bible Belt? Austin is liberal, but I still have no clue how I integrate this weird union in to what is left of my existance here (I travel so much, none of my friends see me enough to care!).

AND, critically...will she be happy here?

Pretty sure I pegged her IQ, although perhaps a bit of unintended hyperbole. She is a few z-scores above the norm, and I hope that gets her in to the University of Texas. Not my alma matter, but maybe she can explain all those bizarre "Hook 'em Horns" hand signals that they teach there!

She will be a great wife. Patient. She gets VERY quiet when angry, or if I make a fool of myself (like yelling in the airport last week as I bought her thrid ticket to HK on Emirates. Discount airline my ass!).

At my attorney's advice, i am going to move some funds off shore. IMPREGNABLE, even by the Feds. My best friend is going to hold some. I don't have all that much to concern myself with, after the last one was done with me! I am also buying real estate in Florida, good way to safely lock up funds. All of this is under pre-existing conditions. We are going to have an interpeter, and videotape the the lengthy explanations and signing of the pre-nup. Should be sacrosanct.

Honestly? I don't care. She can have it. It just feels good to be in love with a woman again. To think about her all day long. To actually have desire.

Dated a babe from San Antonio this time last year. Two cute kids, 2 and 4. Blond hair. Blue eyes. Big smile. former number two in Ms. San antonio. She had just been divorced, husband had a 22 year girlfriend in Michigan. She was READY to get married. Great in bed. WAAAAAAY better than Khai! 32 years old. Only problem? she bored me shitless. School teacher, so she had this authoritarian personna I hate in both genders, but more so in women.

She was not, THE ONE. Pissed me off to dump her too. Then, last October met a nice, 41 year old in Tucson. Fast romance. She was a damn good kisser. never married. ooops, 41 year old VIRGIN! Holy shit! Goodbye. Also, she had her own dot com, and her success sort of made her unattractive to me. She liked to go to the right parties, and to have STYLE. Fuck that.

So, when Khai struck the old chords, her past meant NOTHING. As long as it is the past.

OK, let the barage begin gang. Tell me it is too sweet, boring, long, not appropriate, how much you paid her, what her pussy tastes like. YAWN...

CA Sabaydee!

TANAI KWAI says:

CA,

I would avoid marrying her anytime soon, forget about the hooker issue, fuck around in Thailand a little bit (I have my reasons for this -- trust me), and generally sloooow down. If she's pregnant, as you have suggested, so be it. Figure out how to move somewhere that you can be together if that suits you. Rent or sell your house in Austin. Treat her like a queen if you want, but don't tie yourself down and don't try to make her something she isn't. From your attitude about powerful, successful women I wonder whether you might not like getting what you wish for in rebuilding Khai from the ground up.(?) The more educated and capable she becomes, the more independent she'll be. Don't you like the dependence? The magnanimity you feel when you are the Grand Provider? If you like the Stepford Khai, don't take her out of her element and finance her Ph.D. Don't fundamentally alter her expectations of life -- expectations that have made it possible for you to be together with her. (Do you have 22 year-old girls clamoring for your attention in Austin?) I think you are starting to see beyond the haze.

Good luck,
TK

Gimpy1 says:

Pathetic, both of you!

Captain America says:

TK,

She does get an incredulous look when we discuss her graduating from a university.

Yes, I like dependant women. not sure why, but suspect it is some insecurity of some sort. Well, it might be i find powerful women completely unattractive.

No, 20 year olds are not banging on my door in Austin! I do run marathons with a cute 22 year old, who has traveled with me a few times to California and hawaii. Platonic. She's too tall for me anyway. ;-)

I would love for khai to do what is best for her, not me. In our conversations, it seems that she wants to be a domestic. She loves to cook for me, enjoys children, dogs, and everything about buying and maintaining a house. Her "home" up country is a barely standing hovel, and the symbolism of a nice baan for her and for Mom is huge. She is messy but clean, and rips the sponge out of my hand if i dare to clean the kitchen.

You make a GREAT point, expectations. This is a lot for me to assimilate, and no doubt for her. I have no idea how to slow down the process of marriage, we have 90 days after she arrives. i KNOW I should have met a few more thai ladies before falling so hard for one. BUT, I know my love is real. While the postings on mangoSauce have me convinced Khai could be orchestrating a nice scam, my heart tells me she loves me.

If she is pregnant (I think she is), the equation changes. She said she would keep the baby. I would like that, my biological clock is chiming high noon.

Thank you so much for the advice, the patience, the empathy. if this is a mistake, I will be fine. Sad, but fine.

CA

Greg says:

"BUT, I know my love is real. While the postings on mangoSauce have me convinced Khai could be orchestrating a nice scam, my heart tells me she loves me."

Love is necessary but not sufficient for marriage. Whether the feelings are true and deep and powerful and real or not is only a very small part of the picture.

Captain America says:

Greg,

I'm a pointilist! :-)

What are the other variables, to create marital bliss?

CA

TINGTAWNG says:

"...my biological clock is chiming high noon...."

Is this the fundamental urge for you to be with this girl, and pregnate her? I mean, she is young, healthy, attractive, and you are reaching the outer-limits of fertility.

If so, I can understand that.

An example of biology.

Dana says:

Regarding the Captain America situation the thing that is most disquieting to me is all of the 'thinking' about it by CA. It has always been my contention that in successful mating 'thinking' is not the major part of the equation. I'm not talking about basing long term mating on lusting; what I am saying is that if you have to think about it too much and if the principals have to talk about it too much then there is something not natural about it. It should be easy. Flow like water. Anything else makes me very nervous.

Greg says:

Hi CA.

I sometimes think of love as bandwidth. The more people can intimately share, the greater the connection.

What variables are important depends of course on what is important to the individuals. If folks have quite different values for what is important to them, that can be a problem.

As I get a hard on for ideas, a mate would need to be able to partake and contribute to interesting discussion to inspire me. Not everyone has that particular value, or at least not to the same degree.

Some of the values that have led to friction in my history include:
- Very clear and strong allegiance to truth and clarity. The value I'm talking about is not the value of being correct or agreeable, but the value of making personal effort to seek and speak clarity and truth. When this is lacking in a lover eventually I can't take the person seriously.
- Big gaps in cognitive development (as distinct from raw brainpower) can lead to big gaps in communication. It is hard to be on the same page if your mate is of the view that there is only one right truth and that the way to be in harmony is for you to have the same view. At minimum a mate should be able to hold two views at the same time and compare them. Dialogue.
- Avoidance of dialogue in the Thai style can be good and bad. Talking about emotions is a skill that is valuable to me.
- A big gap in life vision can be a problem. For instance I once wanted to focus on meditation and applied philosophy but my wife wanted to focus on children and finances.
- A big age difference can be a problem if it leads to an inner conflict in one partner that the mate is less physically attractive than wanted.

The most important characteristic in a mate for me is simple emotional well being. Not neurotic, not passive aggressive, not manic depressive, but habitually cheerful. A good natured character is a must.

Living together and raising baby people calls for a great deal of harmony that can't be provided only by love and good intentions. There are a lot of practicalities of compatibility of the personal characterictics and values that are not altered by love and good intentions.

Dana says:

"A good natured character is a must." I could not agree with Greg more. And this is something that you can not buy or borrow or teach or talk or engineer; people are either instinctively good natured by personality and philosophy and behavior and intention or they are not. I judge potential mates and non-mates in my life by their sense of humor and their sense of fun which I use to make assumptions about their brain power. I can not abide or successfully cohabit with the simple minded and a lack of sense of humor is a big red flag of trouble ahead. The problem with mating with someone who you can not successfully communicate with is that you can not really accurately make assumptions about their sense of humor. Trouble. Long odds. Too scary for me.

Greg says:

"The problem with mating with someone who you can not successfully communicate with is that you can not really accurately make assumptions about their sense of humor."

Ya. I wouldn't want to marry someone who never made me cry with laughter. Trivial little ongoing jokes are also really important to me, but for someone to really get the humor requires a great sympatico that cultural differences sometimes make impossible. My high school friends from Canada make me laugh the hardest.

Another big one is the person I become in my mates company. Some people make me a better person, and I like that.

The religious handling of bananas says:

An opening scene of a movie I saw on the tube yesterday struck me as the most powerful cinematic image I've ever seen.

The camera focused on two large black hands, each holding perfectly ripe yellow bananas. The shot was wide enough to include a bit of a street scene, but close enough to show the hands and the mans waist. The man unhurriedly walked towards his fruit stall and laid the bananas next to all the other perfectly ripe bananas.

What was so striking was the silent sense of reverence that was obvious from the simple handling of bananas. No face shot was required to convey this.

I'd like a mate to have a sense of reverence. A sense of appreciation, awe, and interest.

Dana says:

"A sense of appreciation, awe, and interest." Interest to me means curiousity. People who are not curious about their world are discounted by me as mates. Even some animals exhibit curiousity. Many people do not. I'm sorry, if you are not fully engaged in this adventure called living I can do better. Your pretty smile and the curve of your hip under the covers are powerful draws--but I got a brain too honey.

TANAI KWAI says:

Driving down the street today in downtown Dallas and was suddenly mesmerized by the sight of a striking, dark brown, long-haired Thai girl. She was just about the most obvious BG you'd ever see -- it looked like she'd just swung off the pole and on to the sidewalk. She wore typical night market threads -- black, leg hugging pants (slightly shiny and shopworn) with a slight bell bottom, bright teal tube top (not a fashionable color -- just loud). For a moment, the picture made no sense and I felt I was having sort of a 'Nam flashback, when you hear choppers and gunfire and the like.

And then I saw him -- an average-looking farang in shorts, a t-shirt and sandals, maybe 40 years old. His BG wife turned around and began to call toward the distance. I soon saw a cute little Luk Khreung boy scampering toward his mother... the perfect family.

The guy looked nervous, and he was walking far ahead, nowhere near his wifey and child. May just be my imagination but the sneaky bastard seemed a little embarrassed to be with them. He quickly ducked into a restaurant without waiting for her. She followed, not looking happy or sad -- just utterly out of place. She was very hot -- different species hot -- and had a better body after having a baby than most 17 year-old virgins. But I didn't feel the slightest desire or attraction for her. Instead, I felt a little bit of pressure in my chest. I, too, just wanted to get away... as though I might somehow inherit this situation if I tarried.

Were it Thailand, I would experience this scene quite differently. But Toto, we're not in Bangkok anymore.

(but for the grace of God...)

Prorogue says:

it looked like she'd just swung off the pole and on to the sidewalk.

... 'you buy me dink?'.

A classic TK. Vivid as ever.

Pro.

Captain America says:

3 am in Austin, and it is nice to awaken to so much good discourse.

Khai cracks me up, constantly. Extremely good humored, but with a serious moment or two. Perfect blend for me. I like the contemplative side. She discusses emotional issues, loves to hear i love her, and tells me consistently the same.

I do "think too much" as she says. My mind has been gesticulating wildly over her past, the age gap, the distance, the cultural issues. Mostly? I think about the duplicity of my ex wife, how much i still love her, and my ultimate ability to make Khai happy. I also wonder if I might not be happier in Thailand, as apart from a nice salary I see little reason to live in Austin. Texas is a cliqueish place, and after 7 dis-contiguous years in Houston and Austin, I still ain't a Texan---yaw'all. :-)

TK, loved the imagery of Dallas. Preying on me primal fears now? :-)

Actually, if it were Khai on that street, with our child i would be holding her hand, smiling, and very, very proud of her. She is taking the TOEFL again soon, and has promised me a 550 or above! My ONLY commands, expectations, non-negotiable has been she will get a Batchelor's degree. No equivocating. DO IT. Yes, an edumacated Khai will be a more independant Khai. I must trust she will love me even more, for having helped her find her own strength and capabilities.

Intellect. Awe. Wonderment. My second night with Khai I showed her my friend's dossier and bio, the one he gives to investors and donors in his up country school. His wife, and leuk kreung were in the picture. Her English was staccato minus! She looks over the pages. Smiles. REAL smile. Says, "some day Khai want to see the big world." Goosebumps.

She is researching honeymoon spots. Learning. Has become a Google Mistress. Asked me how come the firmware in her iPOD was just upgraded, what changed? Can now sing our national anthem! Wanted a new phone AGAIN, with a cool phone number. Saved the 11,500 baht instead for "new clothes when i come to America." Has learned about most of my 50 states, particularly the ones I mention i travel to frequently.

She did not want children this young when we first met. 25 she said. Well, seeing that i am consistent in my love, support, adoration and respect...she wants children now. She does not need to do this to trap me. She knows I am trapped! :-) She TRUSTS me. I have gone from no trust, to 95% trust. More than I might have from ANY American woman I might date.

When i hike in the desert, I always push the water supply to the hilt. If on ice, I go first and test for my peers. I am on the end of the thin branch, and I just know the abyss below will not hurt. Nor will it be breached...

Choke dii. Booyah. Have been in MUCH worse enemy fire than this!

CA

Greg says:

Good to hear from you again CA.

Sounds like an excellent adventure.

Dongwater says:

This has gotten pathetic to the point of actually being more depressing than real life.

Escapism, blokes: what movies, fiction, etc. are all about.

We much preferred the earlier chronicles were just made up "fabulousness" and brand-name dropping.

Greg says:

Dongwater, although you are the devil with no redeeming qualities, I have one question for you.

I would bet baht that you are not capable of answering it directly.

Is there anything that you love? Can you talk about and share this love?

Dongwater says:

Now, Greg, that's not fair. I'M the one who's supposed to do all the judging of people I don't know. No redeeming qualities? I have substantial evidence to show that my wardrobe taste and quality is matched by few in this world.

Why this sudden interest in me? Shall I ramble on about marginalia like our friend the captain?

Maybe this is a "get to know" all my likes and dislikes and what i look for in a partner kind of site now? Like Friendster?

I love several things:

-Me
-My best friend (who now lives in Asia but we met in the US)
-All of my other close friends back home and here
-My mom, dad, sisters, and grandmother.
-Literature: Paul Auster, JG Ballard, Haruki Murakami, Evelyn Waugh, James Joyce, and so on.
-Music: Most everything from jazz to classical, but lots of experimental hip hop.
-I am huge film buff. I could not live without movies. Got me through my childhood and most of my adult life.
- And I love each and every one of my ex-girlfriends (long term ones) because I find that I never stop loving or caring about someone I have deep feelings for. I also found this never interfered with ensuing relationships and in fact i am great friends with a number of exes.

So, Greg, in short. I love many things. Oh, monkeys too.

Greg says:

"And I love each and every one of my ex-girlfriends (long term ones) because I find that I never stop loving or caring about someone I have deep feelings for."

We have this in common at least.

TANAI KWAI says:

"Well, I'm all out of ideas."

(from ALIEN 3)

Mr White says:

"And I love each and every one of my ex-girlfriends (long term ones) because I find that I never stop loving or caring about someone I have deep feelings for."

I also feel the same way but cannot get my Thai wife to even try to understand or accept it. There are just some things that I find cannot be discussed. The King is another of them.

Captain America, I'd like you to contact me,if you would, I have something I'd like to impart, but don't feel comfortable putting it out here to be picked apart.

Dongwater says:

Whitey-

I understand what you're saying. Jealousy about exes (and many other things) is common with Thai women and then again, any other type of female from anywhere.

I see it from a perspective of balancing out what's important to you. If you want a woman who can understand and relate to you having "postmodern" feelings and relationships with your exes, then stick with girls (of any race) in the west. Had more luck and understanding among them.

Then again, in the past few years I have generally dated very "westernised" women while I've been living in Asia. While most of them were accepting of my philosophy, there were one or two who needed to take some time to put it in perspective.

The fact that I have a huge penis of course always helps to sweeten the deal and get girlfriends to see things from my viewpoint.

cheers,
Dong

S- says:

Dr. Phil would love to welcome y'all. special guest.... the one and only... the name say's it all... Caaaaaptaaaaaaiin Ammmerrricaaa!! (episode 3, reflection from others)

o i love first seat

gna gna

Caaaaaptaaaaaaiin Ammmerrricaaa!! says:

I love to reflect!

So, for those of you with faaaaar more experience in Thai love...have you found the highs and lows (the beta or volatility for you statasticians!) to be much greater than in farang relationships?

I am going for plastic surgery, my ears were torn to bits in an altercation in a part of the world we had no right being in during a time when true men were president giants walked the earth and Russians and Cubans were really bad guys and run on sentences were the least of my fucking problems as bullets and shells fell around me and a few in me. Suffice it to say, this is an expensive operation requiring rib cartilage grafts to support reconstruction. Khai is aghast, thinking of how much better 1.6 M baht would be in her hands than my ears. She has continually told me I look just fine to her. As a peone to my best friend Dong, I am a very thick 8". Scares the shit out of her, and usually rips her up something awful. she would prefer a whole lot less. Except when executing her famous sumo squat. She controls it all, sits down on it all quite often, and "finishes" lickity split. Does quite a nice bucking bronco on me, I might say, and can not only stand to have both nipples tweaked hard, seems to demand it.

Anyway, she has shown enormous worry and concern over elective surgery. I am just blown away with it. My ex once called me "asthma boy" as I succumbed to Cedar Fever my first winter in Austin. Bitch. Khai gets near catatonic if I cough, chiding me to go to hospital and take medicine.

Back on message, nit noi. Highs and lows. how can I go from near apoplectic bliss, to mephistalian lows so easily with this little girl? What the fuck is wrong with me? Wait, don't answer that one...

S- says:

CA, ontopic; could you please send me an e-mail? (yes, intented for serious aims)

Pat Paulsen says:

Ay, ay, ay - CA, TK fleshed out a familiar character with "different species hot." I've seen that one. Seen other well adjusted ones too..."different species cool." Dark ethereal, halucinations that don't linger longer than a gratuitous moment of indulgence on my part. She's spoken for, and will play no part in the fantasy, in this case my (grocery store)analysis of a beautifull cultural crossover. Shwing - gone in a flash...onto her next errand, melting hearts. She assimilated, was secure about it, which blew my mind.
Your Khai will adapt, helped by any married couples she meets through you and other friends. Subconsciously she'll be looking to women her own age, fellow students, even your friends to help her find a measure of acceptance. She'll sneak a look at any photos from the past too, if you let her, to see how she compares, looking for honest clues in your taste of women. In order to feel genuine she'll need to believe she thought of most of the dress styles you approve of. You're secure enough, so the trial and error won't sway you. If you're happy she's pregnant the woman/child bond will settle the matter, providing you a ringside seat. Relax, enjoy the show, you're included no matter what. Someday the kids will translate it all.

PS - learn her language, maybe split more time between countries. Without this you'll start repeating the same old tired lines, looking to others for a "real" conversation, and she'll go into cultural stasis. So many couples end up having dinner in different rooms; her on the phone with fluent friends, he stressedly dealing with a "no discourse relationship."

Captain America says:

Mssr. White and S, look forward to your responses. Thanks...

CA

Captain America says:

Pat,

Feel like your a genuine friend, and greatly appreciate your insights. Mercifully, I'm a very immature 43! And I have many friends in the late 20's to mid 30's. Even a few in her age range.

I brought her pics of me and my ex at 27 and 21 respectively. Just in to grad school. The ex was a statuesque blond. Actually, quite famous on the web (long, long, long story). Khai took it with aplomb, laughed at me in a suit. She has no jealousy towards suey maak pooying, often pointing them out to me. I like that. Think she quite fancies the ladies, as did the ex on occasion!

Babies. Yes, it is looking like this might be a positive. We tried, just after she finished her period last trip. Well, I tried. "Finished" quite silently. She laughed. She wants a leuk kreung.

I do fantasize about her romping down the supermarket aisles, shopping for home furnishings, wearing the standard Stepford uniforms. Damn it. Why would I want to fuck this beautiful creatures life up with all that? her life is perfect now. Nice place to live. First ever with AC. No one to answer to. Cash in the bank. her two new best friends in thhe house (Pete, her lucky stuffed crocodile, and iPOD her favorite thing since hide the salami, "up to you.").

I like your idea about time in thailand. So much I have accelerated my entrepreneurial venture, in hopes that I might have a severence package in the net 5-6 months. Then, I can visit OUR small house in chiang mai for a few months per year. EVA Airways has been running a cool special, $625 R/T from LAX to BKK. She has me pinching pennies!

I have to say, I still want to alternately scream at her and cry to her..."why did you have to go to that damn bar?" But I guess I too must forget. She is so sanguine about it. Not sure if I am happier there was no damage, or would prefer some. of course, what man really knows what any woman thinks?

Captain America says:

Oh, dear me. My youngin' is quite pregnant. Just got the call, "I have baby on the inside!" My response? Do you want it? Hers? YES, I WANT MAAK, MAAK!

Damn the torpedos! I head back to get us registered at the Amphur. We are soon, real husband and wife.

I still have some doubts. Questions. Insecurities. Had the same back in 1989, to be honest. I still cry at the thought of the fat German guy breathing his beer and bratwurst on to her, but what the hey. She mostly went with Japanese, and they are skinny and under-endowed enough to barely get my jealousy going.

One thing I know, ladies, gentleman and kwaii...I love this precious, little girl. I thank God for her, every day. I dream of her reaction to my country, and hope to make it wonderful for her.

Five years from today, I might have no child, no wife, and 65% less net worth. Mai pen rai. She sent me naughty photos last night. Took four months of begging! I looked at those perky, 100% firm and upright breasts, that Golden Triangle, that tight gon. Afraid even after repeated stabs at calming my beast, it remained in some hideously priapic pose. Fucker, seems to have taken over the cortical portions of me mind.

This thread seems to cry out for an update, after she gets here. I promise to do so.

My first child. The first woman i have ever wanted children with.

She was on the BTS the other day. Lady with one baby in tow, and another in the oven was standing. She gave her seat. The little girl kept grabbing her hand, the mother would apologize. She said, "no, I like." Now, we will have one. She wants the baby to have a Thai name. Mai pen rai beautiful. Just let her/him be healthy. Let's give her/him everything we can.

I have NEVER been closer to a human being in my life. At times, i want to strangle her! other times, it is as close to Heaven as I understand. Floating.

Maybe, instead of sex tourism, we should try love tourism? Maybe, if you guys stay sober, give THEM a back rub, a juicy nibble, and a nice 8000 baht...you can find one to love. How many punts are enough? How many strange canals, filled with who knows what? I vote for love. And you 12 guys who nailed her? She remembers you all. Mostly as "nice guys." For some sad reason, that makes me happy...

CA

captainamerica says:

Well, I promised I would post if it ended badly. it ended, badly.

Surprise trip to Bangkok. Joke was on me I guess. Got to my condo, she was not home. Did not come home that night. Hundreds of phone calls to her cell, no answer. Asked the folks in the building, they acted weird.

All over the aprtment, love letters to her, business cards, some were CEOs of large companies.

Worst night of my life. I fly three days, can only stay three days, and she is not even home the first night. 24 hours later, she shows up. Sunday, midnight. She looks at me, asks if I am a pii (ghost). I ask her where she has been, Great lies, but obvious. She rushes to the shower. Hmmm.

When she comes out, i start the interrogation. She blinks. looks away. Lie, after lie. I grab her, first time I have hurt a woman in my life. Damn close to throwing her out the window, 14 floors down. She cries. Tells me she is sorry, but she was lonely. Japanese boyfriend, but she loves me. I gather up everything I have given her. Everything else, out the window. She sits in the corner, crying. She loves me. I am being cruel. Insists i have a girlfriend too. Tries to call her friend. I smash the 20,000 baht phone I had just purchased her.

Grab her by the scruff of the neck. Tell the folks downstairs she is never welcome in my room again. More crying.

it was a long flight home. Back in america, I count my valiums. About 50, probably not enough to kill me. I get home. An ex-girlfriend has called me a few times. She "felt" something was wrong. I go with her to a new wine bar in town. We drink for four hours. Back to my place. She stays with me. No shagging. Next morning, we go for a long run. Back home, she gives me a real run! We are still dating, although i have to say- 36 is not 20! OK, I CAN LIVE WITH SAGGY TITS, TWO KIDS AND THE OCCASIONAL BITCH SESSION! At least, she tells the truth. If something bothers her, she tells me.

Folks, I am sad. But, will recover. Never, ever will I set foot in SE Asia. it is a strange place, and I was never quite at peace there. I have four marathons, and a 1/2 Ironman scheduled in the next six months. Tomorrow morning, I cycle 100 miles with my buddies. I miss that. Much better than gagging for three miles in Lumpini Park, or watching her sit on a rock while I lift weights there.

Best of luck to everyone, especially those stupid idiots like me who thought love transcended all.

CA

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain,

I salute you for returning with that update.

You have had a great adventure -- try to see that.

Best,
TK

Pat Paulsen says:

Yeah, yeah, you loved her with all your might, then you left, because you had to go home, to your life, your career, see your friends, work a little, run some races, play a little, make some jing, sorry.
West or East, a bombshell won't sit around all night living inside a photo
album; she's young, slinky, in her prime, opportunities abound. She's normal for trying.
Marriage, like a religious conversion is where she gets more control of your life as well. More new toys(y dinero)than she's seen in a lifetime got her attention, but what's the point of having it if you can't share it with somebody else. If you're not there, the game still gets played elsewhere.
A solid relationship would be like total immersion, for me. You can't live it until you swim it completely, every day, with her. After that's the dry 100 mile slog, with climbs. It's work. Best easiest things are the memories, made sweeter by loss.
Oh well, better to have tried, and know, than to not try, and say what if?
Marathons, like the daily slog of life; biking, like coasting along above the ground, but swimming anybody?

captainamerica says:

Pat and TK,

Still, I am sad. :-( I love her. She has sent me e-mails, her Mom has sent me e-mails, her friends too. Voice mails. Khor thowt. Khor thowt. Why, oh why are the Thai such irrascible liars? Is it just the genre of woman, or is it endemic?

Funny, one of her friends who left me voicemail is the babe 'o the bunch. Thought about offering her a princely sum for a night of fun, videoing it, sending it to my ex, and then asking her to marry me. Hell, for some insane farang reason...I do not get jealous of her shagging Japanese men! Another farang, or a Thai BF and I would be more forlorn.

But then, reason kicks in. My current girlfriend is a bandaid on an amputation, but the pain is not too bad. Just back from the gym, a new one. Lots of pretty ladies in Texas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe, for once in my strange life I can meet a woman who earns a paycheck? I mean, without tips...

CA

jdman says:

Hello to Capt America, TK, et al.,

I took a long break from Mango to regroup (like David). Thanks CA for the update. I can commiserate since I got a punch to the gut recently in regard to my TGF. I feel your pain man.

This is a long story. Sorry it belongs on Stickman but II have a few friends here who told me so. Thought they would like to know and feel vindictated. I might add though, that I never moved to LOS so things coul dhave been different if I took the plunge like Bruce and others encouraged me to do.

Bottomline, I caught her co-habitating with another farang...a 23 year old Euro for two months virtually right after I left LOS last time. I even got his email address and we discussed our shared girlfriend. He was fucking her with a condom even though she swore high and low she was only using condoms with everyone she fucked (Dana would be proud of him..a real man). This was one of handfull of lies I caught her in. I can only guess there are many more that she has told me that I didn't catch her in.

Like CA, the emails and contact continues day to day. "Please forgive me...I'm lonely girl, I'm selfish girl, I want you." Anyway, the Euro dude is coming to LOS to live with her again for two months while he looks for an English teacher job. During that time I plan on being in BKK twice and of course she wants to see me bad mak mak when I come. "I stay with you!" Can you believe that? She says she'll tell him. So I guess that means, if it is not a lie, and he says "Sure" then he appreciates me paying the bills and wants to jam (share) her with me.

Anyway, remarkably I still love the girl because I thought this was going on anyway and would never end until I lived in LOS. Like CA I think I could have handled a Japanese or a Thai BF better emotionally. But a young poor Euro is not sitting well with me. It's like many other parts of the thread...confirms that youth is king in LOS. The fact that she has a farang 6 years her junior interested in her must give her bragging rights big time among her girlfriends. Except (supposedly) for one thing. "He has no money she tell me. That hurts too in its own way. Explains why she wants me. It is an interesting equation though solve. Which is valued more in LOS. Rich farang boyfriend 23 years older or poor farang boyfriend 6 years younger. A cultural clash...which is truely king? Cash or youth?

By the way, when I was in total break up mode..(after the anger subsided) I asked her for names and emails of her most suay girlfriends who might be interested in me. "NO WAY!" she says. Can't handle that. She says she will cry if she sees me with another girl. Too bad, she made her choice.

I'll probably see her when I'm there but I doubt I will fuck her. I also figure I will collect about 2 very young, very suay, girls to hang with so that when she does come to see me, she too gets to feel her ripe old age of 29. My guess is she will be back on the stage within a year. I feel bad about that...I wanted to "save her"...but I was fooling myself.

Chok dee khrap!

JDMAN

jdman says:

Sorry about the typos ...one BIG one. Her Euro BF was fucking her WITHOUT a condom. That's an important correction. -JDMAN

Sandy says:

Ach Du Lieber...

What a surprise! Bkk seems to be a
"black hole" of relationship train wrecks.

Well the next best step is to go there, live with
her, have a couple of nights out "with the boys",
and come home smelling of soap. Jus' kiddin'
I still say you can't make a good girl "good" from
nine thousand miles away. It's impossible.

Still, the best girlfriend I ever had there I knew was
cheating on me, especially right after I met her(too
much momentum), and six weeks after I left. I didn't
mind
either, despite all that we went through because
what she gave me was more than I gave back, and
still better than ANYBODY I'd have to put up with back
in the west.

Live well, and hold on to the good times!
(Or die young, cynical and broken-hearted)

Sandy

Pat Paulsen says:

JD

There's only one way to take a girl out of the game there: have a baby and live with her. You'd have to stop all your other impulses for a few months, and be prepared to molt into another form of existence, not the lifestyle that brought you(and me) there in the first place. Ouch!

Don't know if I could handle it. My friend Moss had a beautifull tgf, who had a masters in finance and worked 8-5, 5 & 1/2 days a week, a "good-girl" really. He got so bored looking out his window at the sights and smells of bkk eventually inertia pulled them apart.

You may eventually get back together but w/out the T (trust) word it's hit and miss.

We all get older, we all have a number up there, and it's all about compromise and trust. Otherwise having the most beautifull girlfriend doesn't mean squat, except day by day, moment to moment.

Alai ga dai!

Greg says:

Hi Captain.

I know. I did hit her, hard. I threw away her cell phone too. Bitch was on the game, with dozens of guys. I hacked her email account. She was looking for "sponsors". Told me I was the 2nd guy she ever had. Hundred and 2nd is closer. I dated her for 10 months.

To my credit I only briefly gave her monogamy, and only very briefly my heart. Still, she played me for 10 months. Compulsive lier loved me, but that kind of love degrades.

jdman says:

Hey CA, Sandy, Pat, Greg

Thanks for the comments. Greg, welcome to the club.

Something Pat noted has really hit home for me. My TGF wanted my baby soooo bad. More than ever I think she wanted to use the kid to lock up my long term financial support so she could return to her care-free life of fucking young farang boy toys and enjoying her youth. That is what really pissed me off about catching her. It wasn't about money, it was about fucking a guy 6 years younger than her with NO MONEY. So you see, Thai females are just like older farange guys...they love the young ones.

I also know now based on my experience of catching my Euro rival fucking her without a condom that any baby she had would have to be tested for paternity. Not the best way to enter into a family building phase. The residual doubt coupled with crying baby and dirty diapers would have me heading to the corner for a beer and you now where that would lead in short order. As Pat pointed out, the sights, sounds and scents (please the 'smells' are not always pleasant) of BKK would draw me back and I would really be fucked...quite nicely I might add and neither of the two sweet young things would have stretch marks. :)

Any way, my TGF wants to see me under any and all circumstances + or - the Euro boy hanging on the wings. It is kinda nice to know that I can still fuck her absolutely anytime I want. But I'm not fooling myself anymore. It ain't about charisma and it is all about cash-o-la. She should watch out because that well is drying up fast as is her youth. Chok dee khrap.

Pat Paulsen says:

Hi Ca, JD,

What I meant was you'd have to live with her a long time, long
enough to know she wasn't pregnant by anybody else. That's
a lifestyle change, a tough thing for a guy like me to do in a
place like Sukhumvit, or similar venue.

Could I make Thailand a home, bkk my place of "family values"?
Whew...I suppose so. If I stayed away from the candy.
Taking her west might be easier; she'd be "different species hot,"
but there's some advantages to that too.

Move to Hawaii, and split the cultural differences?

Pregnant, not pregnant, cheating, not cheating, it's about being tempted
by too many choices, or being left behind. Nobody wants to take the
plunge alone; ideally you'd jump together, hand-in-hand, a lovers leap.
Is that a bad analogy?

captainamerica says:

Captain Dishrag here. I flew back to BKK last week. We went to Samuii. No sex. Five days. No sex. We laughed. We talked. We spoke about the future. Watched the fon tawk, walked on the craggy beach. Flew back to BKK, and I took her and her best friend to dinner. Seafood Palace, her kii moo favorite!

That night, I said good night to her. Took her friend home. Gave her 100,000 baht for sex, video and photos. I emailed three of them to my "love." She recognized my kaeng, in her friend's pussy. Her Mother called me, her daughter attempted suicide. her mother told me, that if I killed her daughter, she would understand and not press charges. From the alarm in her voice, it all could be real. But what is real?

JD, my heart bleeds for ya. Damn, fucking women. They are worse than men, or we are bearing the brunt of years that our bretheren abused them. I was faithful. I was not even tempted by the sights, smells, sounds. Honest, she fulfilled me. My DREAM. Now, she could be dead. All, to shove some 3 inch dick in her during the 2 weeks I left her alone? What the fuck? Stupid. Mai chalat.

to make things better, my current Texas girlfriend found snaps on my camera, AND played the video last night (I was trying to make a DVD of it!). Mistress Paulette has left my life! Good thing too, I love a tiny lady in Thailand. If she still lives. And if she told me that she made a mistake, I would still want to marry her.

As mentioned, Captain Dishrag.

captainamerica says:

One last thing. I cried as I had sex with her friend Bee. She started crying. She did not speak much Angkrit, but knew enough to tell me "my fault." I had an angel in my arms, much prettier than my former finacee, and it felt like my dick was plunging in to a tunnel lined with glass.

I am sure they are in a cafe now, laughing about me. My friend in the US is laughing at me, he finally has his proof that she is, was and always will be "shit." it hurts, I love her. They have disconnected their pussy from their heart, or maybe the entire female race has done so.

So, back to work in earnest. My job was suffering mightily. Back to training, my runs were getting slower and slower. But there is NOTHING to replace OUR dream home in Chiang mai, with song sunak, somme leuk kreung, one meow, an air conditioner in every room, and nice neighbors to drink thai wine with. My sad, beaten man little dream. One, many women would kill for. Not mine, she fucked Hide instead.

Had a fantastic bottle of Greek red wine this evening. Nice restaurant. Inexpensive wine. The kind of wine and restaurant I would make a local haunt. The kind I picture taking her every Thursday night. Good food. Good fun. Good friends.

I have pictures I will keep a loooong time. I will cherish her memory. I have no idea how I will forget, but having done it once I know it is possible!

Choke dii you fellow lost souls. Better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all.

God bless.

Greg says:

Hi CA. I wrote this this morning, and while I think the audience that might appreciate these thoughts is small, I suspect they might resonate with you a bit:

I wanted it out there. Not private. Declared.
My eyes became bottomless love
engaging and centerless - they grabbed the soul in embrace
soul embracing soul
my eyes did that

I dropped pretense and went for the throat
for the heart
for the pussy
I was a force, and I saw god.
I saw you.
In seeing you, you saw me.
Eyes do that. Cut right through, even in the midst of all the flickers.

I don't do that anymore. I gave it up.
It used to be called "the eye trick"
I'd look into the eyes of Marisa, and she'd say "stop that!"
Because her world would melt away. Mine too.
I felt it in the back of my eyes. It was like moving a muscle. I could reach out with the back of my eyes and melt with someone into that powerful dynamic mystery. Instant love. That's sex.

I owned the eye trick, and I mentioned to a date the eye trick, and that it was too dangerous to use.
I used it anyway - pulled it out - and let intense love recognise intense love. Become who we are through our eyes. Be the fiery light of god that we are through union of spirit and soul through the eyes. I let my soul see her soul. Profound and simple. Should be normal. But too dangerous, because we can't handle that much God and transpose bigness into romantic love. It's inevitable. Look at someone that way and you are asking for trouble.

She was nuts, it was silly and painful. I never used the eye trick again. In fact, I lost that power. I didn't want it. It left me.

Don't call me a coward. We are all. The eye trick is available to all of us, always. We all shy away from that much light. Which of us can bear it. Tell me me which of us.

I'm looking in the mirror today. So much anger. So sad. But the fire is still there. I'm surprised - I thought I had put that out a long time ago.
The eye trick never really left me, it just retreated. Yes, I can't do the eye trick anymore, yes I gave that up, but the fundamentals of having a soul and being love and power and being able to see who we are are still there.
I'm so angry.
i have no one at all to talk to. No one at all to see. No one to see me. Why see? It's so lonely and painful and heartbreaking. Futile truth. Wny see?

I used to be able to make people turn around with my gaze.
In the meditation hall, I tested it. One by one by one, each still meditator turned around to glare at me.
I tested it in the road while driving. Everyone turned to look at my car.
I tested it with sunglasses at a busy fair. No one could see my eyes. Why did they turn around to meet my gaze?
It didn't work on dogs.

I don't do that anymore. Would you?
I gave that up.
That much instensity comes with a lot of sexual intensity, and emotional intensity. It's not easy to live in that world. You want to see and commune with god in your relations, and people don't want that much intensity. People don't want that much god, that much boundary breaking, that much passion. Or maybe a lover can take intensity, but just has no eye for god - so all you can do is fuck the shit out of her, getting as close as you can. But that's not communion. You want to see in her eyes her soul, but if she is all divided and scattered, you don't want to mix your being with that. All you can do is fuck. And fuck and fuck and fuck. That's as close as you can get.
But when all that energy is flowing, there is a yearning. You got to take what you can get, because it can't be denied. And it is good. It is not crass. God needs god. I need you. Soul seeks soul, to become and recognize soul. In touch, we see and share and give and become who we are. I settle for the less because at least I need something.

I'm so much more angry now. And I refuse the eye trick. I refuse the truth of who whe are.
It's too painful, and no one cares or understands anyway.

captainamerica says:

Greg,

Thanks. We are ALWAYS right and wrong. The human comedy. The human dichotomy. God is our construct. A quite silly one, until the consequences and the questions intrude.

I am back with her. Travel to BKK in 3 days. I love her mind. her heart. I do not need to own her pussy, or her for that matter. I love her mom. I love the fact that she did not want her dad to slaughter four cows for our wedding. I love the fact that she is still alive. I am not angry, although a bit saddened. BKK and Thailand has that effect on me, on all of us. Wild eyed wonder, slack jawed despair. PERFECT for those of us who question everything.

Have never been married to a virgin, frankly that type of constraint and commitment scares me silly. I have slept with 100+ women in my life, but now only dream of her. if I CAN DO THIS, PERHAPS ONE DAY SO CAN SHE. if not, I can deal. maybe, this is my test by fire.

"The unexamined life is not worth leading." I am a Libertarian, nearly completely devoid of judgementalism. I can not understand what forces have caused her actions, have enough trouble understanding my own. When I hold her hand, and walk with her in MBK, when we look for homes in Chaing mai, when she wipes the sweat from my brow, and cups her hands over my LOUD amorous exhaltations, I see God. I do not become God, but I know he is there. has been 15 years since that last occured, and I would press the bar like any rat for more of this.

Choke dii khrap to all of us piteous souls who seek the ultimate. I pity those who do not...

"There are world's other than these, gunslinger..."

Stephen King

TANAI KWAI says:

Said it before, sayin' it again:

"You never lose your girl, you only lose your turn."

There was a time when I think that offended some here. Not no more!

(winky)

jdman says:

Hi CA, Greg and TK,

Well our friend CA is about as hopeless as an ice cube in hell. I should talk right guys? CA..you plan on marrying the girl or did that happen already? Thai wedding? Will she move to Texas with you when you have her visa in order? This story continues to be of interest because I see two likely outcomes. 1) they live in the US and it has a 50% chance of surviving one year if there is some escorted travel to LOS 3-4 times a years to deal with her homesickness. 2) This will fail with 90% probability if you leave the girl alone in LOS for any extended period of time...1 month for example while you are in the US. Try your best to stay out of American divorce court my friend.

I will be in BBK in a week (Nov. 29). Think I will hang out at Nana and Soi Cowboy for a couple of days/night before I hook up with my ex. If anybody wants to have a few beers on me let me know here and I will post an email address.

PS: TK.....you were sooooooo right it hurts!

captainamerica says:

TK & JD,

In the Dallas Admiral's Club right now. Thai wedding. House in Chaing Mai. If she cheats, i cheat. Told her so. I am resigning my position, much to the protestations of my President. I have enough to live in Chaing mai, comfortably for 10 years. I will inherit some more.

No VISA. America is "brua" to me now. I am going to teach Angkrit, and set up a B&B for triathletes. Hills, fresh air, now I just need to find a place to swim. I already have a famous triathlete who wants to come live with us, and lend his name to the venture.

In 3 months, I art an ex-pat! We are registering the wedding at the local Ampur.

She keeps asking me if sex was better with hher friend or her! I ask her if she likes 3" or 8" kaengs! No jealousy on my part, wasting $2500 on her friend was the best thing i ever did. I do not think she will fuck around as easily, although I do not trust her 100% any longer. I know where all the karaoke bars are in Chiang Mai, and mentioned to her I will frequent them if EVER her phone does not work when I call, or she is not where she told me she is. Actually, I fully believe this time I will have a mia noi. She is a cutey too, met her in the hotel lobby our last visit. She told me my wife was cute, but probably too young to KNOW how to please a man!

Goodbye Republicrats, mid-west, narrow minds, and most importantly...the complete CUNTS we have coddled and bred in the United States of America. I will come home one day, in vain hope that John Wayne has risen, and California is back in the ocean.

Captain America Finds His Balls, and deems them MAI LEK! :-)

Sandy says:

Hi Greg, CA, TK, and JD;

Converts in the Trenches, everybody.

East or West, a catalogue bride, or down on your
knees, we all make compromises, or, play the game.

CA, I would like to know more about your tri-athelon
camp. Used to do minis-triathlons myself. Great way
to meet people, and leave the stress behind.

Best of luck.

Sandy

Greg says:

My sex addiction has led me back to seeing the compulsive lier. Of my 3 current girlfriends, she's the one that turns me on the most. We just can't stop fucking. And she does have feelings for me, for whatever that is worth. No way I'll get monogomous with her again though!

jdman says:

WOW Guys!

CA I have to say you are a better man than I gunga din. I would have no guts to do marriage with my TGF (Thai or not) based on her previous lies / life. Co-habitation. OK. But marriage. Why? What is there to gain? My TGF did me a huge favor. If I move to LOS I will not get hooked up immediately with her now. Enjoy my freedom...butterfly big time and if I need her on the side, I'll get my turn.

You know this CA. Don't acquire a lot of wealth there. If you do, leave information about her and her family with a friend or a PI and tell them if you disappear who is likely responsible. If you go the route of the mia noy, probably best to tell her. If not, she might separate you from your dick in your sleep...and feed it to the feral dog outside the window...true story.

Greg, I will report back. If my ex-TGF still gives me the raging hard-ons of days-of-old, then I will sympathize and report back. Then like TK says I will take my turn and then send her packing back to her poor young Euro boy-toy with a 1000 Baht for her trouble. I'm curious about how I will react to her physically. No stir in the pants and I will not waste my time with her. I am actually looking forward to some new (albeit not fresh) chicken. I know the street vendors around Nana before the bars open, serve up a lot more than satay. Yum yum.

Chok dee khrap!

captainamerica says:

JAL got me in 30 minutes early last night, ran in Lumpini Park this morning @ 05:00. it was packed! Lifted some weights in the little "muscle beach" outdoor rust pile. Charged me 30 baht! Have never been charged before! I bought two tickets to Udon Thani, thought I was real smart using Nok Air. 4600 baht for two! Then she tells me her friend got 1400 baht R/T! This fucking country is one lie to farang after another.

JDMAN, my heart bleeds for you. At least Hide is a skinny, ugly, Japanese little shit. A Euro stud would hurt me. Go fuck her friends. She deserves it, so do you. No need to own her, or anyone. let her know she does not own you, breeds respect.

I told little miss preujam duen to do "smoking" last night, or I would head over to her old bar for short time. She cried, asked what had changed me. Asked her if Hide's naam ngian was still in her. More crying. Told her Bee's pussy was wetter than her's, how come? More crying. She knows now, my friend in BKK has motorcycle gang friends. if shhe cheats in this marriage, I will fuck her friends, and send the tough guys to visit her family in thhe village. We Americans are a gentle breed, until fucked with. Then, we are more than capable of less than surgical strikes.

Tonight, we go to Nadia for our thai massage. Told her I wanted a suey pooying this time. More crying. "You want them?" Maybe. "You want Hide?" She says, "Often, often you talk of him." Yelling, "well let's try to imagine WHY?" She screams, she should have killed herself. Told her in Texas, plenty of guns. Yep, no more real joy in Mangosville. Tonight, I noticed a fishbowl place near my condo. I might just go out foor a walk. 20 strokes, no condom. Come back and back door her bloody bits. Yep, CA has changed. "Cyniicism is the mark of the intelligent mind." Cato (The Roman, not the Asian!)

TANAI KWAI says:

For the record, I am disturbed and embarrassed by the above on countless levels.

My counsel on this matter has been consistent: (1) be realistic and (2) relax.

It was NOT (1) be monstrously sadistic and (2) have the most pathetic midlife crisis of all time.

A friend once said of someone, "If his puppy pissed on a rug he'd probably drown it in a bucket." That echoed in my mind as I had the misfortune to read the above. (Today in Plano, Texas, there was a story of a woman suffering from post-partum psychosis who severed the arms of her infant daughter before killing her. It's a toss-up which bothered me more.)

"We Americans" should quietly leave Thailand if this is how we intend to treat her daughters, who did nothing more than indulge our fantasy that our money could bring us happiness.

TK

Greg says:

Of course it's going to piss someone off big time if a woman makes a sale and you find out is was a bait and switch. She sells love and monogamy, but you find out you purchased a totally different package. Sometimes acting like a possessive cave man is the only way to get a point across. Finesse and loving rational discussion doesn't always get the point across.

When I found out my little lover had been standing me up for dates to persue other long term relationships, I went to visit her. I had no intention to anything but talk. Instead I called her a bitch and hit her with a hard left jab to the head. I've not hit anyone except for one playground fight when I was 12. Her head bounced against the wooden door. Very satisfying. I followed it up with a second equally satisfying jab that bounced her head against the door.

After that she fell in love with me. She started to come often and quickly in bed. Kissed my mouth more.

Go figure. She told me that my hitting her proved to her that I really loved her.

We have broken up over a dozen times. The sex is just simply too good for us to stay away. We often take the day off and fuck all day. Even after hours and hours, our passion and lust and intense pleasure is fresh. Can't get enough of each other. Physically we are in love, even if in a lot of ways we honestly hate each other. She's my little girl, even though we break each others hearts.

sort of anon says:

I don't trust sex reports of previous boyfriends from girlfriends. I wonder if this is unusual. At least twice a week I have sex for a minimum of 4 and up to 6 hours, and fuck every day usually a minimum of an hour. I'd like to think I'm kinda special that way, but one girl told me that it's normal for at least the young guys to go all night. I'm not young. All others told me I'm special regardless of age. So?

Pat Paulsen says:

JD, CA,

Exactly...you can't have it both ways.

You reap what you plant. Anger, frustration w/ the
opposite sex, mid-life crisis, believing one can have
a good deed returned overnight, living your life
laviciously but expecting her to be Mary Poppins; it
ain't gonna happen with expectations like that, never.
All a sign of a fast food society; I am more guilty than
many, tho I've learned from many years of mistakes.

And rather than throw a blanket stereotype on the
whole other half, I would say just slow-it-down some,
or, grow up. Otherwise she sits in the kitchen talking
rapidly to her girlfriends(you hope) in rapid dialect,
while you are eating dinner by yourself, waiting for
that next adrenaline rush, a new skirt to investigate,
with your high blood pressure and no one to talk to.
Not a pretty picture. There aren't enough races to run
to get away from that picture of being alone.

Monogamous may be boring, but if your best advice is
to hire a PI in the event of your enventual downfall it
is not a bad alternative. Be a classic old fool and bang
the maid but don't be a complete fool and tell her.

Love is all around...be discreet!

Greg says:

More gory details.

I tried to own her. She was so happy that I wanted her to be like my wife - my property. Told her I wouldn't change my evil ways, she accepted me as the lowlife that I am. Great. My little girl.

I go to Bubbles disco, she is dancing with other guys. No problem, I told her she can fuck around a bit too. She wouldn't introduce me to her friends, told me to go away. I told she was no longer my wife, but just my geek. She said fine, great. Later I broke up with her. She said fine great.

I know she was in love with me, as much as she can be in love. But she is an orange. All divided up into slices. The slice that she was last night at bubbles could care less. The slice she was two nights ago would have given her world.

It is really difficult for us western guys to grasp the facts of this culture. We expect that since our girl really loves us, she isn't like all those other bad girls we here about. It is playing with fire to date a Thai. A lot of these girls are players. Really good at the lies they tell, because they believe them.

Greg says:

I've said it before but it bears repeating. Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity. As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self. But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop. What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona. There is no there there.

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority. A self. It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there. No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise. It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity. That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop. This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc. Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to. There is no "she" to change. All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions. The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity. Doesn't even have a developed ego.

graeme says:

So since it seems to have been established that for whatever reason many Thai females are born liars, should I forgive my gf more readily the fact that the number of sexual partners she has had increases every time I find out new information. What started off as a relationship where I was her third has become something akin to a McDonalds franchise (I'm exaggerating I hope). The lies don't end there of course, that's just the beginning.

captainamerica says:

Greg, TK, Pat, JD & Gang,

Back in the 'ol USA. San Fran Admirals Club. Many more hours to go before I sleep.

The ceremony, was fabulous. Her poise, charm, intellect, and beauty were a sight to behold. I had the best time of my life, trang trang dancing past 1500 people, pouring giant bottles of scotch, even sharing some darn good champagne that was for "us."

Enjoyed the psycho-babble, as well as the wake up call TK gave me. Bitterness, has no place in love. However, she NEEDED to know that I would retaliate with vim, vigor and one upMANship. If she cheats on me in Chiang Mai, I will bop four women in her bed the same evening I find out. They will all be goorgeous (her biggest fears, next to pii, cats that purr tooo loud, and getting a "zhou zhou" (zit!) on her face!).

I was shocked at the maganimous nature of her family and friends. Made some genuine acquantinces there. One erudite, bug eating gentlman asked me how I could love such a poor girl. I told him, with pure jing jing, a person's wealth does not reside in a bank, in a watch, in a car, or a house. It resides in how many people truly miss them when they pass on. Minutes after this discussion, hordes of former welders came to me seeking wisdom and jobs in the USA! Throughout the day, the contrasts were staggering, rich, a wondrous milieu. I love it there.

They slaughtered four cows for dinner, she cried. The new house was almost complete, and the nuptual chamber was adorable. Dirty, but adorable. DAMN, the water is cold there! The weather was wonderful, I broke a sweat until the phra doused us both with water during the ceremony.

Most important? I love her. Intensely. Passionately. She still knows, I want her to do well in life. She respects this about me, and her closest friends do as well. The layers of this beautiful vidalia are peeling in some places, becoming luciously translucent in others. I can wait.

She gave me the most passionate kiss of our relationship after the wedding. Rocked me on my heels. The sex, for those of you who revel in such pruriant details (I do!) was phenomenal.

Picked out a 6 bedroom mansion in Chiang Mai. I will rent it for one year, and try out my triathlete retreat concept. I will need to build an Endless Pool, and upgrade a few things...but no major capital outlays. She knows I have accounts that are numbered, and inaccessible to even the IRS. There will not be much money in our joint accounts, although in all honesty the ring, sin sot and new house have already set me back 2 million baht.

We honeymoon next month in Australia, and might pop over to Bali for a few days. Her wadrobe, demenour, lingual skills (bad