Bar girl in suburbia #2: Back to prostitution

DaveMcK says:

Squandered on gambling and high living? SQUANDERED?
you've gone mad

mr peter says:

I don't see how the law could be on her side if she buggers off in under the 2 year settlement visa period, maybe after that. I don't know anyone this has happend to, but would be interested to hear-peter

Charlie says:

I think Dave has got the whole scene sussed out but there are exceptions. My girl has several friends who live in different parts of Farangland, they are quick to establish a network and can make you a bit para.They love the phone. From what I can gather, they usually bang on about food. My girl has a job and can get about the city and communicate fine. She has been in Farangland for 2 years and was buzzing her tits off the other day when she finally got to get out into some proper snow. She does not smoke cigarettes or gamble, she will however, drink a melon bacardi breezer, and we all know how pricey they can be.

stu_$ says:

wow, this article is turning me a bit paranoid ,
but how much paranoia is enough...?
i laughed when CHARLIE mentioned
"bacardi breezers" , my thai gf drinks them
and they sting like a bee when you get cheq bin !
apart from that mine is not like this girl...but she has mentioned that when i'm in LOS, if i want to buy a house
she says " you giv house me name "
hmm..., should i be nervous ?
stu_$

skm says:

stu_$
Of course you numb-nut farang boy! Not just nervous......what comes next would be the gold bracelet......or have you gotten that already?
skm

Cynic says:

The problem is that most Farang men of the marrying breed have been pussy-fied so badly that these bar ho's will eat 'em up. Shit, most of them were fucked up by frigid white heffers in the first place, what's a hot, sensuous Thai broad gonna do to 'em?

Papa says:

If I am to marry a Thai girl (bar girl or not) going back to Farangland would be out of the question.
All the above are reason enough and come down to common sense.
If anyone wants to marry then work out a way to stay in Thailand. It would be better for you both.

JDMAN says:

I agree with Papa. Stay in Thailand for various reasons and if possible don't marry her. She will be happier there because they love their country, culture, king, family and friends. All the things David outlined will likely make her unlikely to adapt to Farangland. If she does manage to adapt. Then other things will likely happen. I personally fear the "run away with a new farang boyfriend scenario". If the bar girl adapts enough to be comfortable in Frangland, then she will be increasing desirable to younger, well-heeled farangs who see her as a rare young exotic girl that is far sexier than the female farang whales they are used to chasing. They will want to help her escape the old geezer she is married to. This seems less likely to happen in BBK for example because the young studs have plenty of unattached Thai girls to go after. In addition, the ex-bar girl in Thailand always will know that if she screws up there, her farang boyfriend or husband could easily bounce back with the female smorgasborg available there and dump her. Competition by younger girls will probably keep her in the nest and motivate her make her man happy if he is a good provider. Even if she needs a young Thai boyfriend on the side, he will also probably want her to stay with her farang boyfriend/husband because she will be feeding him her spare cash. So over all if the goal is to keep the girl, the chances would be best to set up house in Thailand I think.

ADONIS IN UK says:

BLOODY HELL LADS!! im going through the joys of arranging everything for wedding etc now im bloody paranoid it will all be a waste of time!! PLEASE someone post a really sweet, successful post on how it worked out for them and wife in farangland!! sod it off to bungee from my roof with no bungee cord as in pattaya bungee club.

Captain America says:

After availing myself with all the negative posts pertaining to farang/bar girl relationships, it was extremely hhard for me to follow through on my fairy tail romance. To all of you who feast on the misery of others, here is an early warningÖthis is a happy tale!

My best friend, annd former boss while I was at Apple Computer married a Thai lady about 12 years ago. We all broke apart in 2000, when the stock hit $150 US. He not only made a tidy sum at Apple, he also learned a company he had started in India many years earlier was going public. Suddenlyy, my blue collar boss was worth over $100M. His wife, from Ubon asked him to build a high school in her small village. For $150k, why not?

For three years, he implored me to go there to teach. The evil Swedish bitch I was married to would here none of that. Men work, so that she could run 10 miles a day, watch TV and get stoned in the evenings. Oh yes, she also had an affair. In 2002, my 14 year marriage ended. I did what any man would do, wennt in thhe garage, turned on the Mercedes, and learned those fuckers make such clean burning engines that death was not an option! OK, well, had better become an Ironman triathlete instead. I did.

In march of this year, I finally traveled to Thailand. I was planning on taking a 6 month sabbatical. I have a great position, with a major multi-national. No problem. Also, I live a clean, clean life. No drink. Nothing but soy milk, sushi, Clif bars.

I get in to Bangkok after 24 hours of flying, and my friend takes me immediately to Nana Plaza! First he scares the shit out of me in a ketoy bar! Then, his favorite hauntÖG-Spot. I have not been with a hooker in 25 years. Not my cup of tea, I like the chase.

I'm exhausted, and not happy to have to drink. Hell, I just want to go to Phuket and swim and jog! The Mamasan knows my friend well. She starts bringing ladies to me. Tall. Short. Thin. GORGEOUS! I was married to a big Swede, now blue yes make me sick!

Finally, a VERY shy, small, adorable girl sits down with me. Won't even make eye contact. Mamasan tells me, if she is not nice to me to tell her. I assume (correctly) she has not been in Bangkok very long. I put my hand on her knee, she moves away! Was staying at The Landmark, and had no idea about bar fines, or even if these were hookers or dancers. Neophyte. My friend leans over, tells me not to worry about anything, and take her home. ìShe is fresh meat.î Now I feel like a perv.

I whisper to her, would she like a massage? She spoke very little English, but said ìThai massage?î I said no, American massage! Big smile. I waited an eternity for her to come back, seemingly all showered and looking like a beautiful, little girl. We went back to the Hotel, and I showered. She was still dressed when I got out, and I told her it would be hard to massage her with jeans on! She went in the bathroom, came out in every towel in the place, and ran under the covers! After using all the lotion in the room, I was near animal like an hour later! My God, what beautiful skin color, ìgonî (butt), and hair! Still all black, and innocent.

I finally got my knees between hers, and she screamed ìkondohmî at the top of her lungs! I went down on her for nearly 30 minutes. She seemed to enjoy herself. I tried again without the kondowm, to no avail. When I entered her, she gasped, and it seemed to hurt. No oral for me! ìSmoking,î as I now know it to be called! She had never done it.

I went back the next night. And the next. Much better love making, and she had an English (Angkrit) textbook. With the 10,000 baht per night I was giving her she had invested. She knew a few cute phrases. She said DARLING, not teerok! I hate the word teerok.

I went to Ubon Ratchathani, and spent five days in Phuket. I missed her. With two days left, I flew to Bangkok and rushed over to G-Spot. There she was, 12:00 at night an not bar fined. No surprise, she was not the pushy, sexy sort. Quietly beautiful, but austere by Thai personality standards. We had an amazing two days. Saw the River. The temples. She is educated, high school degree with ahigh GPA. 20 years old.

When I got home, we e-mailed every day. I sent her 80,000 baht and asked her to quit work. My friend hired an investigator, she had indeed quit. No Thai boyfriends. ONLY time she saw a farang was when her friends had their faens take them to dinner (as I had done, platonically for her friends). No marriages in her past. No problems with police. She is very healthy, eating seafood, fruit, and MK almost exclusively. No burri or ganja. I liked that.

I flew back a month later. Got the Presidential Suite at a gorgeous resort in Khoa Lok, and a nice suite in Phuket. She slept a lot, was afraid of the farangs, and enjoyed meeting some ex-pat friends I had made at Faulty Towers near the Ex-pat Hotel in Patong. She thought their talay salad was number 1! I fell DEEPLY in love with her. I am 43. In awesome shape. Not the world's handsomest guy, but enough to have five girlfriends back in Texas. Post divorce, I am still very successful. I have never cheated on a woman in my life, and never will. She trusts me. Mostly, she trusts me not to LEAVE her with kids some day. Her biggest, biggest fear.

I tried to take her to Tokyo two weeks ago, I was there on business. Bought her a first class ticket, but a little of her slothfulness meant that she could not get a travel VISA to japan on time. I had four days with her in Bangkok. Got her a new apartment, not that the 5800 baht per month dive she shared with her friend to save money was not lovely! I bought her a computer, and a full time English teacher. A good one. Four months later, her English is amazing! She has ADSL now, and an Apple iSIGHT attached to her Powerbook. We videoconference, and she is quite savvy. Many trips to Panthip and she has more programs on her computer than I do!

She wants to be an accountant. I have filed the Fiancee VISA application, and her interview is approaching. I have been to her village, and had fun with her family. I want to shoot the mother, because she has told me about her origin in this life. She hung her head, and said ìthis is where my mother send me.î As you know, it takes strength for a Thai girl to say that. Oh well. She was there 6 weeks. Her virginity was lost to a nice Japanese man, who came to get her every night for the first three weeks. She was bar fined about 10 times after that. Mostly ìnice men.î It hurts me. But some how, not too badly.

I go back in two weeks, for two weeks of holiday. We are getting married in her village, Thai style. I am giving her family (unbeknownst to them) 500,000 baht. Significant money to me, but not too bad. She will be going to University in America. I have enjoyed DRAGGING her to Emproium, having her gush as they addressed her as ìKhunî at The Conrad. At having my wealthy Mom hang up on me. At having my friends alternately call me crazy, or the luckiest man on Earth. I live very vicariously through her young eyes, and will teach and learn from this remarkable lady. She is strong, proud, soft, sensitive, caring, and makes me the best khou mow ma meung (sticky rice with mango and coconut sauce!) in the world. My favorite. She irons my shirts before I get dressed, even though they have already been pressed by the hotel. She thinks I am handsome, hung like a horse, and has made me forget about work, working out 5 hours a day, and the past. She makes me sabaydee! And you know what, all you skeptics? I make her very happy. Socio-biology tells us men crave beauty and sex, women security and stability. It helps kids get born, reared and be healthy in life. This is that and more. I never had children, but will with her. I can't wait. She wants to get her degree first, but offered to have them soon if I want. Everything, is ìup to you!î

I have purchased 58 gram, GoldMaster 24k chains and bracelets for her. Brought her 7 and Diesel jeans from the US. Bought her friends gifts as well, they are great girls and take care of each other. I admire these bar girls far more than the :to the manor bornî sluts that I have dated and married. I still have great appeal for America, AND have opened my eyes to a new way of life in Thailand. It ain't perfect. But we talk about everything. Blending our cultures. Using the best of both. I told her, mai pen rai doesn't cut it in Texas! We fix shit when it is broken. She has taught me the shear joy of lying in bed with her, for 12 hours in Phuket, snuggling and watching TV. I have patiently taught her the joys of farang food, clothes, TV, literature, engineering prowess. My gifts to her have been functional, except for the gold. Digital cameras, and a book on using Photoshop on the Mac. How to invest in stocks. She has a TD Waterhouse account waiting for her now. She picks the stocks, and has learned the McClellan Oscillator!

We get married in America in November, if all goes well with Homeland Security and Immigration. We are hiking in Chiang Mai on the next trip. She had never been on a plane when I met her. She is going to see the big, beautiful world. I saved her, and she has saved me. From inanity, a mundane existence. The monotony of ìsuccessî in farang land.

I have never asked the investigator to stop. Even told her I did it. She said good, that way I would trust her from the mouth of another. I put a program on her computer to take her Yahoo password. She e-mails me, and her mother. I asked a friend to decipher the letters to Mom. She loves me. Is afraid to leave Thailand, but knows it is good. Thinks GOD sent me to her. Funny, so do I. And I thank him every day.

Friends, there IS LOVE to be found in those stygian depths. I will never see any of you in Nana Plaza, as my time there was the jackpot of my life. But I hope you will not be jaded, and will realize bar girls are human beings. They love. They hurt. They do not hate farangs. I talk with her friends, some of whom have seen us together and have left the life. One told me, at 23 her heart was growing black. She works as a sushi waitress now. Has a faen in California, an airline pilot. She loves him, and I believe her. He is married, but I pray he marries her instead. She is a sweet girl.

I will update this. Maybe it will all blow up? I don't know, but I know that the mountains we climb in Chiang Mai are just the first tough steps we take together. But I DREAM of her graduating for the University of Texas. Of our first child together. And of making her happy. Of that big smile, and at having done some good. I guess I won't be teaching English in Ubon just yet, but this might just be betterÖ

Good luck gentleman, remember, respect them and they just might respect you.

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain & fellow Longhorn...

Please contact me offline if you would be so kind.

(...)

John U says:

Captain,

A fabulous story, and thanks for sharing it with us.

You did have a lot of luck finding your lady the first night, and she being newish to the game.

Most of us catch them too late after their heads have been turned by money, late nights and drinking. :<(

Looks as if you also had a good P.I. :<)

Do you mind sharing him with us?

Cog says:

"All my exs live in Texas,
And Texas is a place I'd dearly love to be.
But all my exs live in Texas
And that's why I hang my hat in [THA-AI-LAND]". ;)

Captain, great story. Choak dee khrap!

Jonny says:

Gimme a break. Yeah, write to us in 5 years, that is IF the fools at US immigration actually let you bring her there.

tonychang says:

captain
you couldnt lend us a few thousand baht could ya??

Captain America says:

Thanks guys, I do feel fortunate. Jonny, by the fifth year of my farang marriage I was hoping she would steal my money and leave! :-) As for the immigration dudes, honesty is the best policy. If she can't come to the US, I am happy to move to Thailand, Cuba, Ecudor, whatever it takes. Although, I do want her OUT of thailand.

Some of my real fears are more mundane. How will she adopt to a new place? Will she be happy? Can she attend and compete on a University level? Will the dietary changes bo hard on her? You know, basic blocking and tackling.

One of the readers suggested off line to me that 500,000 baht was waaaay too much, and I agree. I will now tone it down to 100,000 baht. All of my flights there, the lavish gifts, the apartments, the fancy hotels have added up! Thos little bahts can turn in to $1000's US in a snap!

Jonny, why so vituperative? You have a bad experience? Hate to see another happy? Hate women? Men? Misanthrope? Cheer up dude, what happens in my life has no bearing on yours. Or perhaps, if you had one bad experience you should jump back on the horse. Rest assured, if my tale turns sour I will share with everyone here. It could. I always have my doubts.

The private investigator is a gal and her team who worked for my friend years ago, when he started a company in Chiang Mai. They actually install wireless LANs in buildings in Bangkok now, but using their extensive network were able to track my lady's every move! Even her bank account, and every time I sent her 40,000 baht indeed 20,000 went to Mom upcountry. Hell, by my estimates her Mom has more money than me now!

Just got off the phone and then chat with her. I am so baa tanhaa I could explode!

Peace.

jdman says:

Nice story CA,

The age differance is about the same so I hope it works for you (gives me hope) but mine was (is ) in the business 8 years longer (forever). See "I want our baby now". Oh well, I feel the same way about her and only feel I could safely marry her as you plan. You also seem very savy about Thailand for only being there once before finding this girl. The PI right a way etc. Amazing. I guess I'm a slow learner.

Please keep us informed as to how it is going. I know I need advice (lots of it).

all the best to you and your young lady.

Chok dee khrap!

JDMan

Bruce Mangosteen says:

The comment was made in the thread JDMAN refers to that happy farangs in Thailand comprise the "silent majority". That seems to be true. Thanks for breaking the"'white wall of silence"! :)

My opinion is that you appear to be flexible enough to return to live in Thailand with your girl if she can't adjust to the Western world. That might be your ace in the hole, harking back to David's original posting.

By the way, one thing got me a bit curious: she e-mails her MOTHER? This seems a bit odd to me. My GF's mother can barely answer her cell phone!

Best of luck. Yes indeed, keep us posted.

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

Had read your thread the other day, and feel a certain kinship with you! You excoriated the naysayers through honesty, and sincerity. I wish you well. Take a chance. Remember, "it is not the top, but the side of the mountain that sustains life." Enjoy the journey, if it ends with no children, or heartbreak do it all over again. Nothing worse than being alone in the world.

I was not that prescient, or savvy! march was my first time there! My friend and former boss; however, had been married to a Thai lady for over a decade. he had seen the landscape, the blood on the tracks. He INSISTED we investigate. I am thankful he did.

Mango,

My future mother-in-law is pretty young, is adroit with a cell phone, and goes in to "town" twice a week. First stop? Internet cafe! Seems she loves getting pictures e-mailed! She was so happy when I purchased a laptop for her daughter. Then a digital camera. A camcorder. A DVD player. A dye sub printer for photos. I never showed her daughter how to work these things, and the directions are in Angkrit (except for the DVD player). She had to master everything.

My mother-in-law is now living with my fiancee in my apartment. Why? to make sure she stays a good girl! I swear, i trust her more than her Mia!

I will be back in LOS August 4th, staying for two weeks. My vacation time is running low! Hopefully, she will be here by late October. We are starting in San Diego, then LA, San Fran. Down to Tucson, across to Austin (home), New orleans, Miami. Next trip, NYC to visit my family. I want her to choose where we live. I hope she does not pick Miami! San Diego would be my choice, or stay here in friendly Austin. I love her, and want her to be happy. I can always adjust. Culture shock scares me. I went beserk on Wireless Road last trip. My limo crashed. Left my four pieces of heavy luggage on the street! I had to carry all four, as the three girls just sort of looked shell shocked. i got hot. VERY hot! She insists i wear long sleeve shirts, long pants. Four taxis could not fit my big bag. I hit a lamppost! Dumb. Lost face. Guess what? I'm an american, we gain face when we get upset! she understood, and recognized one or two expletive deleted's!

I'm rambling, 'tis late.

JDMAN, save her heart. Treat her with kindness. if she rejects it, you can still be proud. Love does not know the past, only today and the future.
CA

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Cheers. All the best.

turn on says:

Captain America :

I'd like to wish you the best of luck , you have my sincere admiration for rescuing a TG from the P4P scene.

You obviously have high career ambitions, I hope your wife will appreciate these and support you in your efforts.

One of the most common reasons for divorce relevant to my friends, is the wife's inability to understand and support her husbands career ambitions . Generally, wifes' cannot understand why husbands stay out late at the office and sometimes work on weekends, they regard such behaviour as pure male selfishness and accuse the man of placing his career above his family life. I certainly hope this doesn't happen to you.

My, very personal problem with the average Thai
lady that I meet; is that there is very little that is common between us , other than sex. I've had a reasonable college & professional education and have worked extensively in Europe, the middle east and in Asia. To me, the average Thai girl that I meet has somewhat limited vision and ambitions that are very different from mine, she cannot understand (for example) why one should enjoy a moutaineering holiday in (say) a remote country like Nepal. Neither can she understand things like (say) classical music, or even good jazz , that leaves sex and THAI food as the only areas of Commonality .

I completely understand and appreciate the fact that there are very many Thai ladies who like Vivaldi, will swoon at a Mozart piano concerto and have read Voltaire, BUT the chances of the average foreigner meeting them, let alone having a relationship with them, are really non existent .

My own , very personal, view regarding the reasons for Thai farang marriages going sour is that there is a tremendous gulf in values and in culture, between the two individuals. I don't think that it is a matter of love alone - one can LEARN to love quite a few people, but one can never get into the minds of certain individuals and understand what makes them tick and this is precisely what successful relationships are all about.

Again , you have my very best wishes - I hope that other Thai girls get as fortunate as your Thai lady.

Jonny says:

Say again, gimme a break. "Let the fleecing begin!" Oh, wait, it has already it seems.

Captain America says:

Turn On,

You have hit onsome of my deepest concerns. I am sitting in Boston, waiting to meet business associates for dinner. Just got in. Beautiful day. The history. The verdant NorthEastern summer. Probably all temporarily lost on my spouse to be. HOWEVER, she has shown remarkable interest in "seeing the BIGGG world." Her words. She is excited about a day hike we are taking in chiang Mai in a few weeks, to see the Hill People. She knows their history, their origins. Yes, my little vixen might just have more to offer me than a honeypot.

Now, mind you she can watch those twittering Thai soaps till time stand still! I can not imagine her reaction to Mahler's 3rd, but I have already picked out a lovely dress for her...and we will go to Davie Hall in SF for her first taste of ancient farang culture. She might hate it all. She might cry for months in the lovely Texas Hill Country. Heck, I was going to teach in Ubon and it scared me senseless! I understand. And will be gentle, and patient.

This might sound utterly fanatical, especially because most of my life has been spent in scientific agnosticism. But I asked God what to do a few months back. I knew the struggles I would face. She would face. I'm a genuinely good guy, and want her to be happy. I listened for an answer, and the answer was you will both be happy, and do much good for others in this union. Came to me clear as a bell.

I can subjugate my trips to Carnegie Hall. I can live with a few hundred thai DVD's polluting my plasma screens, and her music rattling the tubes on my all analog audio equipment from France! Mai pen rai! My own culture is wonderful, but unlike most thai peasants I do not defend it as the end all and be all of human existance. neither does my lady for her own race. She is a definate Thai Rak Thai zeolot, but knows it is something she must change. I guess maybe that is it, this little package of beauty is morphing, growing, changing, enjoying the challenges before her. She told me, "I am proud of what I am doing." (alas as she failed the TOEFL test for the second time!). And I am very, very, very proud of her.

My first wife came from a pedigreed family. Daddy was a Sr. partner for a big 6 accounting firm. She knew music, had lived in Paris and gothenberg and knew great food and wine. We did all the right things together. And all I had at the end of my second or third bottle of Chateau Latour was indigestion, and a $700 bill. That same $700 is helping her dad go to cooking school in Bangkok. he can't weld because of shoulder surgery (yes, I saw the scars and everything!). The ex helped my career. Big blue eyes, gorgeous cheek bones. Met her when she was 21, and time stood still for me. Same with my new lady (except now it is 23 years, not 6 that seperate us!).

To get to my point, if it fails...it fails. I can not, will not worry about that. I will be devestatingly sad if it does. I get more enjoyment out of sitting and doing hher English lessons with her than boom booming one of the wettest nether regions I have ever been privy to! Honestly, when I returned after the first trip, and finally peeled off all the towels (in thhe dark!), entered her, I assumed she must be having her period and flowing all over the Conrad's down comforter! Nope, she was in the right line of work...she likes sex with farangs! But that fades. The giant Swede's appeal did as well. I love the heart of this little girl. The giving nature. The simple things. I think I have reached that mystical point in my life, where I have NOTHING to prove to my friends, to my peers or to me. Nothing too prove to her. I like myself. I treat people well. And if all I get on my next trip is "this sure is a beautiful mountain darling, thank you for showing me Chiang Mai." I go home sabaydee. Well, I lied. I fully expect more sticky rice with mango and coconut sauce!

Peace to all. Jonny, I'll say a prayer for you my friend.

CA

Captain America says:

One last thing! The other day I had to offer Macintosh tech support, at about .30 cents/minute to my darling. One of her friends had brilliantly installed a virus laden program, and I had to help her reformat the drive, update her e-mail and .Mac accounts, and re-install programs.

It took HOURS! "No, the blue apple. yes, the word right next to the other word. Quit means end. Launch is like start. OK, please pick up the dictionary. Maybe we had better do this next year! How come we click on the same same thing but you never see what I see?" yep, 'twas a blast I tell you!

the next day, she sends me the sweetest thank you note, and apologizes for driving me ting tong! My friend, who has been married to a Thai lady (plain looking, older than him, never was a BG) has never heard a thank you! I feel really blessed. My lady is small town, but her manners are impecable. She does take an uncommon joy in announcing to me that she has stunck up the bathroom, or a rather loud belch when a great room service meal has left her happy. But we can work on those things back in Texas.

Honestly, I will update as long as there is interest. I will be unflinchingly honest. if I get fleeced, hosed, dumped, robbed, violently attacked, I'll let you know if I'm still alive! this is the most novel thing I have ever done in my life, and despite my corporate imprametuer I have been very unconventional!

Here is a quote from the Dali Lama:

"Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk." amen Dali-man.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Concerning the travel, etc., I would simply advise that you don't make her feel trapped. Let her come and go for a while if that's what it takes for her to acclimatize.

Mine has been with me to China, Singapore, and South Korea. Not the US yet. China and South Korea were to accompany me on jobs lasting a month or more (the China job lasted several months). I always tell her, "Go home whenever you are ready; I'll be with you soon anyway." The length of time she says in these places gets longer and longer, but has never exceeded three weeks. She wants to be in Thailand. And, so do I!

By the way, South Korea was as cold as a witch's tit, and the GF shook it off admirably. In fact, she seemed to like the cold, and was undeterred when I was shivering!

She might not be able to live in the USA all at once. Give her slack, let her adjust, let her go home to Mom sometimes. If she doesn't feel trapped, I expect she'll eventually stay.

On the subject of shared interests: I'd much rather learn about a mysterious person than sit in silence with one similar to me. Besides, I am just not convinced that men seek the company of women because of intellectual stimulation. If I want my intellect stimulated, there always The History Channel!

Jonny says:

Yes, CapDumbAss, thanks for the prayers.

Anyone else notice the immense amount of bragging this guy seems to be doing? Not about the girl of course, as we can all be sure she's nothing to write Buri Ram about.

But he goes on and on, dropping in bits about his plasma screens and all the money he seemed so ready to drop on her family but was so easily talked out of by some random guy he chatted with on here.

Here's my guess.: Typical dude wanking in his basement, living out some fantasy between all his "business trips to Tokyo". Your wife-to-be is a ho, dude and all the polish you put on that turd won't turn it into a diamond. And by turd, I mean the girl but also your actual life, not the fantasy you seem to be projecting.

BTW, yes I do have a PhD in psychology.

Cheers

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Jonny, why don't you use some of that supposed education to figure out why you're being such a gonad? Is there really something that wrong with a person who is trying to be happy?

Psyche-guy, shrink thyself?

Cog says:

"Anyone else notice the immense amount of bragging this guy seems to be doing?"

I noticed...but I'm a sensitive git.

Those "bits" of vanity are quite subliminal, aren't they? Perhaps Khun Pygmalion aka Captain America could think about toning it down while he sips his Chateau Latour and nibbles on caviar hors doeuvres. The Captain must not have learned anything from Ajarn.com.

His use of Thai (i.e. baa tanhaa) tells me he has either been under the tutelage of Buddhist monks, or he has endeared himself to the most sophisticated BG in Thailand.

If he's the real deal, then he's the great white hope...at least for one young Thai Eliza Dolittle. Captain, all the best.

Cog says:

Note: The Ajarn.com reference is insider information. Out of respect for the Captain, I'm not going there...

Jonny says:

Nothing wrong with someone trying to be happy. Even if it means being delusional. But you really think he's happy? Even if his momentary insanity and pride at "rescuing" a village girl trick him into euphoria, he won't be so happy when reality comes crashing down on him. Which, depending on how much of what he's saying is actually true (between 5 and 20% I would guess) will happen either as soon as he logs off from making his next fictional post or as soon as his bargirl dumps him.

Go back to the guy's earlier posts. The divorce stuff. Etc. This is not the picture of a "happy" guy.

Look, I'm all for people trying to make themselves happy. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing around with some bargirls. But this guy's slightly whacked. I've been in, out, and around BKK for years and never met any truly "happy" people who married bargirls (meaning they were not happy before or after). "Happy" people do not marry prostitutes. Sorry, guys. "Happy" people don't generally shag them either. And, I for one, would never profess to being an all that happy guy myself.

And happy people for sure do not make shit up and drop name brand bs anonymously on web sites. These are people with serious self-image issues. Wouldn't call them happy at all.

Case closed.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Fine. We've established that I am right, and in CA we have an unhappy person here who is trying to be happy. It still does not explain YOUR hostility.

Let me read between the lines here if I may: You went through an experience much like CA, but yours ended badly. Maybe more than once. Badly burned. No kids involved, I'll wager.

Unlike some other people's stereotypes of relationships with prosties, you've come by yours due to hard experience. Maybe the rest of us will, too. However, I have a great many friends who are happily married to ex-dancers. We don't care about their pasts.

I have a friend who is married to a lovely ex-dancer and free-lancer, and when people ask him, "How can you be married to her? She was shagged by the whole Pacific Fleet?" he replies, "They all must have mighty good taste in women, then!" Hardly the rejoinder one expects from an unhappy but delusional guy!

Bar girls don't hold the franchise on gold-digging. We understand this, too. The money angle is just something most of us have to put up with whether we marry a prosty or any other sort of girl.

If somebody is careful, and takes his time, and keeps his eyes open, he can find happiness with a bar girl. See the other two JDMAN threads for more on this (Relationships: I want our baby NOW, and its update). If you feel that this option is closed to you for whatever reason, that's OK with us.

Why not examine your hostility in terms of your own experiences, rather than those of CA, me, JDMAN, or anybody else? You might come to terms with them better.

Cheers, and good luck.

Jonny says:

Hey guys.

Actually, like most people here, I was bored and just taking the piss. No, actually, I haven't had all that many bad experiences, most certainly nothing all that cash intensive, traumatic, or that ended badly.

I do wish this guy luck, but christ, from what I've seen in and out of Thailand, it's a tough nut to crack.

Combover says:

Don't think it's hostility - just a little healthy cynicism. I thought the best thing Jonny boy said was his estimate of only 5-20% of the whole shebang being true.

Not sure if I totally agree - CA's stories are very detailed and specific - but the general point is a good one.

And there are a lot of people lurking in cyberspace with very fertile imaginations and no reason to withhold from embellishment of the truth and self glorification. And I certainly wouldn't bet my bargirl's knickers on it being the whole story.

Captain America says:

Gentleman,

'Tis early in Boston, and must drag my addled and resistive body to the local YMCA for a spot of running.

Everything is true, and Johnny is indeed perceptive. I was very unhappy leading up to the divorce 9way too much work, little pleasuure in my life), and darn near suicidal (as indicated) after the divorce. it hurt. EVERYTHING in my postings is true. I made a lot of dollars in Apple options, like most of my lucky bretheren at the time. My allusions to wealth are to make a point, I had the fucking AMERICAN dream in 1999 and 2000. I had never been LESS happy.

In 2004, my love for a sweet, young, pooying with a bespeckled past has me smiling every day. Do I like her shagging past? Of course not, buut is it really different than other women i had been dating in Austin? How many of them slept with fat men to acheive security? How many women are NOT treacherous and manipulative when it comes to our male need for genetic drift? What I care about is her stated desire to see the woorld, continue hher education, and take care of me. So far, she has proven quite honest (and i checked, a right good proctological exam in to her background and foreground).

I have no need to impress folks I know or don't know with tales of wealth or plasma screens. BTW, they are now quite respectably cheap! I have had the best materialistic shit in the world, from foood, to wine, to audio equipment. And i SWEAR, eating sticky rice she has made for me is better. Light years better.

Of course marrying a bar girl, whose family needs the money, who does not make me jump through endless strata of her Cosmo and feminist instigated psychosis is the easy way out. I know that, but I no longer found a single women in Texas, or even California or Arizona who made me care to play the game. Women, apparently have been faking orgasms and love since time immemorial! This beautiful creature makes me FEEL it is all real. The ex never did, but she was attractive, and i was young and wanted the accolades of my peers. Insecurity? Sure. But not this time, her beauty makes me smile. What is left of my former wealth post divorce and fighting a fucked up war in iraq makes her smile. Is it all a lie on her part? What thhe fuck for? I told her, if this is bullshit tell me now, and i will write you a check for a million baht so that you can open thhe rot yon shop you always wanted. She knew I meant it. She is still with me. she wants a nice guuy, who does not cheat, who will help her family, and not run away when she has the children she CRAVES. Guess what, Dr. Johnny, I fit the bill. for real.

So, I have no idea where this ends. For once in my forward looking, miscreant life I do not CARE. today, it is fantastic. if I, or JDMAN get hurt...we will come crawling back on all fours praising your prescient and rather nasty advice johnny.

CA

Captain America says:

My nit noi Thai is a combination of Pimsleur, and Rosetta Stone. With a nice dose of her being a patient little girl, and the two of us sitting on her couch and practicing first English and then Thai. I can't get the damn alphabet down. She studies six hours a day, at a cost of 450/baht hour. There i go, dropping money like a big shot again! Well spent thhough.

so that nobody think me filthy rich, my net worth is about $2M. Down from $6M when 40,000 apple options were worth something. No big fucking deal, I was poor before that an happier. I could lose all my money now, and would welcome it because I could see if she stayed or not. I can always earn more, have a host of degrees that seem to keep me reasonably well employed. I only need a bicycle and running shoes to be happy these days, have not had a bottle of Chhateau Latoru in 3 years!

PEACE, and I bloody well fucking mean that! I am happy guys, and I feel like 19 years old in this relationship. Believe it, or not.

CA

Captain America says:

My spelling sucks, damn keyboard is to blame!

Apologies mates.

mr peter says:

'so that nobody think me filthy rich, my net worth is about $2M'

I consider this amount to be rich, any thai would even more so. You can live for the rest of your life happy ever after in LOS on this, just don't tell the girl the true amount whatever you do. Heck, you could even buy yourself a few siamese cats as well-peter

Captain America says:

mr. Peter,

I was always partial to Burmese cats, but they sure are loud!

Yes, I could well retire to LOS. But i would have nothing to do. I like working, need cerebral density, and do not have enough language skills to keep from going daft the first six months. I also want her away from her friends, no matter how sweet they are the delineation between boyfriend and customer is still slim at best.

If I love chiang mai on this trip, might consider it. I guess I'm not a big city boy, and BKK depresses the shit out of me!

CA

TANAI KWAI says:

"Yes, I could well retire to LOS. But i would have nothing to do. I like working, need cerebral density, and do not have enough language skills to keep from going daft the first six months."

Paging Drs. Greg and Dana. You're needed in E.R. 6 for a discussion about how Thai women are but mere children with limited potential to keep one intellectually engaged.

(Today's weather: partly cloudy with a chance of rain here in Spain.)

Cog says:

^LOL! Perhaps they're stuck in the psych ward?

jdman says:

Had to comment on CA's thread again. I think he is for real and is not BS'ing us. I too see a lot in common between our goals, motivations, expectations, and willingness to take a chance on our BG-GFs. His age gives him more options than I (he could invest 5 years in the girl, get screwed and still be ready for round 2). This may be my last shot at 52 especially if the kid thing comes down. Thus I don't want to be fleeced emotionally or financially. Have to be a little more certain that this is a good gamble. But I appreciate his and others well-wishes. I agree too that Jonny must have a few nightmare experiences to tell us about (his own or close friends). Lot of bitterness there. Be well Jonny.

Somehow I feel less of a need to be intellectually stimulated by my GF than CA. Been there and done that. My girl is clearly not the sharpest pencil while his appears to be ready for Radcliff. She's bright enough though, and has other redeeming characteristics that may or may not be shared by CA's. As I said before ...total package is outstanding and a slam dunk for me. His too seems like a real diamond in the rough.

I might add that having a younger girlfriend(s) motivates in other ways. CA may have always been in great shape. Not so me and marriages is partially responsible for that. They can get you fat and complacent. At my age, one of the most important things for me is being motivated to stay physically in the best shape possible and she definitely provides the positive force for that. Guess having a father die of heart disease comparable young has me worried. If she keeps me alive and healthy for 20 more years I would see that as the score of the century given some of my bad habits.

Like CA my 24 year younger GF makes me feel like a kid again too. Yes Thai girls can be like children and his descriptions of sitting with an English or Thai lesson book does smack a bit at the 'sitting on daddy's lap' and 'bed time stories.' However, we have always been equal participants in sex (like he describes his girl). I don't think there is any form of sick 'pedophilia' that has creeped into my attraction for my girt friend despite the age difference. I actually find the 18-22 year old cuties too pubescent for my tastes. But I can understand his attraction to her given the other descriptors and his younger age. A very nice catch for him indeed. But she will stick out when he is with her in America as will mine. He seems bullet proof to snickers. I'm less sure I can handle that, thus living in LOS seems a safer bet for my own ego....although there have been lots of stares in LOS when we are out too. However some of my friends also told me that while people will snicker over the age difference in the US, most men at least will secretly envy my courage to take this young exotic goddess on and keep her happy. The will tell their wife "he must be a borderline pervert" but will later wank off fantasizing about being in CA's or my own shoes. Fuck'em.

What makes me feel very good about the positive opinions in the thread is how CA (obviously a very intellegent guy) and numerous other very bright contributors to this blog think that long-term happiness is possible with ex-BG's despite major age differences. As long as we are not thinking totally with our dicks, how can all these intelligent farangs with lots of LOS experiences be so wrong about BG-farang longterm relationships, marriage, etc.? The cultures are different yes, but human nature seems to seek out those differences. Maybe it is from millions of years of one tribe pairing off their kids with other tribes without anything more than subtle physcial clues to tell you who might be a good match for whom. A wet pussy and a hard-on are two great clues that a relationship can work.

Long term happiness can be elusive in any relationship. Novelty wears off. Excitement of the chase is loss. Things can get boring. As long as the sex remains good, I think CA has a chance. Once that falls off the charts, my experience tells me that no amount of intellectual stimulation, passson for discovery, common interests, etc. will salvage the relationship.

So CA, Bruce, and the rest. All the best of luck. Cheers!

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

I really appreciate your response, and your current position with your GF. Empathy, and analogous in many ways.

My finacee is not Radcliff material, but much, much smarter and more mature (forward thinking) than hher friends. But even they are nice girls. You said one thing that shows great depth and understanding, women are women. We like to rail against farang women, but their motivations (biologically endemic) are the same. A man they trust. A man to support them. A chance to raise a family, share companionship, show their girlfriends their good luck, and somebody to take care of and cry to. Parodoxically, men are not all that diffrerent.

I worry a lot about my future with this exotic girl. Worry about the cultural differences, the age difference, our educational differences (although she is light years ahead of me when i was 20!), experiential differences, differences in activities deemed fun. I also worried about the same things when I married my wife! She was 21, I was 27! We found a wonderful middle ground.

Last night, she went to a birthday party for her number 2 friend. she got mao. i got jealous. Today, one of her friends brough a customer over to OUR condo. She was honest, told me about it, and claims she did not know he was being buzzed to come up. PISSES me off ROYAL. I was sitting in Boston commons Park, and screaching in Thai about being mai sabaydee! The crack addicts avoided me! :-) So, this ain't all wine and roses. These long seperations are hard. She does not understand that americanns work all day, all night sometimes. Alien concept and construct! I furthher worry, how in God's name will I keep her having sanuk when i need to drive her to study hard, to be constructive while I go on a two week trip. I honestly (foolishly?) do not think she will cheat. I worry ONLY about her happiness, and my ability to provide it. Insecurity? Sure. 20 year olds are fickle beings.

Happy to hear JDMAN is thinking of healthy lifestyle changes to keep up with his lady! Nice, ancillary benefit! In my case, my little cutey is good for five minute of on top thrusting before she crumples in my arms exhausted! I love it, and jokingly told her that each time she has to add 5 minutes so that she can get in to marathon shape! JDMAN, I was in terrible shape 3 years ago. My employer was brutal, and my marriage was failing. I ate to compensate, and worked to hide. When I left her, I got back to my former self and then some. Have always been a top athlete.

I repeat, I am no adonis. handsome? yes. Male model? No. Physical specimen with shirt off, and she loves to trace her fingers over my abdominus rectus, and seems quite taken by both my appendages and pecs. In one of her e-mails, she told her Mom I have good muscles. I'm still smiling!

Repeat, this is the BEST sex of my life. Hard, all the time. She gets sore fast, and I probably have her cervix mapped on me! But she enjoys herself, even dark skin can show a flush. her favorite? On hher back, her hair in my face as we lie in bed. I pull her up and down, and have convinced her it perfect fun to rub herself like a banshee while I am in her and sort of trying to watch! she can do this for 12 hours, and so can I! She is even improving in the "smoking" dept., although she is no pro! A+ for effort.

Yikes, I am rambling again. time to go to dinner soon with an analyst, then a nice drive to NYC. My mother does not know her past, it was enough for her to hear her age and domicile! I want to tell her the truth. I have NO concern whatsoever about appearences in America. Hell, I have always been considered a bit eccentric, and "dare to be different" is a prime maxim. I worry about the effect on her. In a recent e-mail she tells me don't worry, she can go anywhere with me. Long as we are together, and i don't leave her. Job offers came in from Boulder, CO and I explained snow and mountains. She laughed, said "OK, no shower till it get warm!" She means it, we are a team. She excliams, "life is not always a rose garden." Chalat. Mature. Pragmatic. Scared, but commited. I feel so lucky. So alive. And have not been this happy since getting hitchede the first time.

Ramble. Ramble. Women are not always thhe best thing for us guys. I know that. But I would rather have bliss, albeit with the attendant pain with XXXX, then contentment with me, myself and I.

PEACE. Nice to meet you all, and thinks for the diverse opinions.

CA

PS $2M is decent money in Austin, TX...but a pauper's balance in California!

For you who might be american, what city in america do you feel is best for an Isaan Thai lady? Probably LA, but ughhh do I have to? :-)

Dana says:

Hello Captain America--

I'm at the Frog Pond in the Boston Common every Sunday. Contact me if you want to get together.

Dana

jdmsn says:

Hey CA,

Fun post although this crowd can get a little tough on happiness with Thai GF's. Myself, I am hanging with you on the blow by blow (including the smoking) descriptions. I agree with you on that one. In general Thai ladies are not the best in that department although at least it is hard for them to talk on their cell phone with their mouth full. :) But plant them atop a hard dick and they seem to be Lance Armstrong on a bike. It's yellow jersies all the way up and down the course. Have never met a farang girl that comes close from that starting postion compared to my GF. Sweet.

As I said in my original post it has been the best sex I ever had too. Completely fucks your brain when that happens after 30+ years of shagging. But I am serious man. If the sex fall off...its curtains. No hope. No quick fixes. Dump the girl. Two marriages is one more than your life experience but it is tough to get this concept right. It's the first sign and all the rest of the signs are not worth it. Get out fast. If I had known this simple fact I would have not married either of my wives for more than 3 years each. Great sex for a years but when it went south all the rest of the commitment was not worth it and just cost me money. Tried to do the right thing. Wrong.

I have been having a very tough time myself dealing with the separation. As I said, my GF is into sanook too. I am trying to cope but it ain't easy. She is no saint like yours but I also like her wild side so I can't say goodbye yet.

I have got to get to LOS as soon as possible. That is the only way I can survive and keep this together. I actually turned down getting laid tonight by a very cute little 27-something. It was made clear to me over many drinks at a party....if I want her she is mine. I have never turned such a free cutie down before but I didn't want to take a chance of getting trapped in another farang relationship. Do not under-estimate the power of poon-tang. Especially Thai pong- tang.

CA and Dana, I frequently pass through Boston on business. David has my email. Send him yours and he might be so kind to forward it to me. If you want to have drink and talk life, I'm game if I happen to be in town and free. We can eat at Montien near the combat zone. Best Thai food in Boston.

Chok dee khrap!

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Interesting, with my ex the sex was the last thing to go, and I was happily banging away at her various holes long after we'd lost everything else. Her discovery of the TGF put a nail in that one!

Also interesting, my TGF smokes like a trooper, having set herself out to do it right after I complained. Now, after many pleasant coaching sessions her skinflute sonatas are every bit as good as those of any girl I've ever been with, and that's saying something as my ex could suck-start a leaf blower.

On-topic, I would repeat that your best hope for long-term happiness might be to make sure she feels she has the option to return to Thailand to visit when she wants to. Both of you seem to have the means not to worry about a plane ticket. True, the cynics will say that this will give her the opportunity to keep her TBF happy, but you just have to take your chances in this life.

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

Thanks so much for your posts and perspective.

I passed Montien every day i was there, stayed at the DoubleTree near the medical center. My co-workers wanted seafood, seafood and more Legal Seafood. I rarely travel to Boston, and if the pouring rain in NYC does not stop shortly will never travel East again! Besides, my Mother is driving me daft in under one hour. At least I am stealing wireless from her neighbor!

Will chat more during the woork week, and would quite like to meet onne of thhe Americans on the board...but I prefer California or Arizona. Any place dry!

CA

Captain America says:

Bruce,

Imagine this is your forum, so thanks so much for the hard work!

Great advice. She has been promised four trips home a year, a month in December if school is out early. I hhave offered to take her 12 year old sister to America as well, and let her live with us. Might give her some much needed continuity.

One of her friends came over the other night at 2 am for dinner, with a customer. I freaked out. her Mom was asleep. I want her out of that cesspool of a city. Probably sound like an ex-smoker cursing out cigarettes, but I will never acquiesce and say that Thai tolerance of prosititution is mai pen fucking rai. She told me though, and took a ration of shit from me for having done so. I admire that. I am going to put in an excerpt of her e-mail to me...

Dear XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX I want to tell you . I don't khow she come
with man. she not tell me. she finish work she call me
. and ask me . XXXXXX you hungry? she want to come here .
she tell me she buy many thing for eat. I say yes OK
can come.
she come to apartment . she call me again when she
be lobby . want me open the door for come inside . I
go lobby and I see him stay with she. Me angry too!
they come I have to say sawatdee. and my room I
have to take care. If I khow she take man come. I
will say no!
not to long when finish eat she and him say
lakon . I khow you never trust me . you tell me you
trust me. but your hard don't belive me. I tell you
every thing. becuase I want you khow. but make you
think bad for me. I anry too! I try take a good care
for you. for your hard . for we on future.
Why do you think pooying whant sanuk! I khow you
think me same her. she and me not same .
every thing up to you. I can tell you don't worry
about me. but I can't tell your had stop think about
me bad bad bad. bad girl . two time . you don't
understand me . first time your friend XXXX. you khow.
you make me me tried. no power.
I never think go back for work. I khow where I come
from. I no think bar good for me. I don't brith form
good family .
I don't khow my life on future. but I do better for
my life. when arrive I dry.
every think you can belive . you can nobelive.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

CA:

You complement is humbly noted, but alas I can't take credit for this excellent forum. Only some of its posts.

My friend, I can only say (as I would say to some others on this board as well): If you look hard enough for something, you will find it. I would caution against digging too deep into this girl's past OR present. Things are easily misunderstood; if you are given data out of context you risk jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Decide whether you trust her or not. Then, go with that decision. Hopefully, when given a chance, she will live up to your trust. If not, be big enough to recognize this, and move on.

Good luck. Look forward to your postings in other threads as well. There's not enough positive thinking around here lately.

Captain America says:

Bruce,

Has been a tough week for us, my jealousy is driving her a little crazy. Which i can understand. This long distance stuff is driving me nuts, and being around my mother for more than 5 minutes made my mood a bit dark and depressed. She probably does not understand, as life is a constant party for most Thai folks (no matter the conditions, it seems!).

I get to see her in a little more than a week, which will be awesome. She has been buying books on chiang mai, and has actually gone on-line to search out tours, hikes and other fun things. Truly shocked me, as like most other 20 year olds, planning is not her forte!

Have had many discussions about the age difference with friends. My current consensus is this, if we are this happy for even three years it is a victory. The last marriage shattered some shibboleths, not the least of which is "nothing lasts forever." if she hates america, cheats on me, steals my money...life goes on! :-) If she loves america, truly loves me, and actually gets an education and starts a career, that is LIGHT YEARS better than the big, blond leech that slept in my bed for 14 years.

As for the sex, this little girl has one very curious attribute, that I love. She gets wetter than any girl i remember in my fairly illustrious, pre-marriage sexcapades! When she quit the bar in march, took me three weeks to see her the second time. We get to the Conrad, and both take showers. Off go the fourty towels. And I try to place my head between her legs. Nothing of it. She pulls me up, locks those thighs tight! Smiles at me, opens her legs and says "I no boom boom in long time." I slide in to velvet. One of those Kodak moments actually! Later that night, she is on her belly watching TV. I rub her from behind. She gets wetter than a faucet, and two fingers slide easily in to that small crack of honey. I take her from behind, as she cackles on with her Thai shows! The next time I see her in Bangkok, bad time of the month. We just hug for two torture filled days! The third day? I am mounted in Phuket when I wake up. She sits on top, and I slide in to her like 20W50 engine lube! Has not been quite the flowing river the last visit, but that is because I hurt her something fierce after our first, rather less tender ramming.

All in all, when she sits on me, and does the little gyrating gon, 'tis the best feeling in the universe. Best ever in my years of women. How can this be? I had a nice cross section in america, Africa (lived in kenya for a year at age 19), and even a few in Paris.

Thai women rule, damn the torpedos!

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain,

You might enjoy a book previewed here called "Apsara Jet."

(...)

Gimpy1 says:

Tania,

Did you get the sand out of your vagina yet?

I'm still waiting for the gay bashing comments that you claim I make.

Captain America says:

Jealousy. Rather pathetic at my age, and all this for a sweet little lady who wore farang (not sexy) clothes to ther friend's birthday party at RCA. I know, because the investigator asked her to dance! She said no, and refused his drink offer. seems these five girls stuck together, and bought their own drinks. She did dance with a few guys, but went home mao, and with only her friends.

Hmmm, she is the only one in the group who has left the life. One of her friends did a few weeks ago, but seems her japanese benefactor has abondoned her. So, back to Nana Plaza.

Have been doing much rationalizing, introspection, and haranguing on "the life." Let us look at some analogs:

1) My best friend in the US is a female triathlete, who had been married for many years to a pathologist. she is in love with a guy who competes in Austin. he works in a sandwich shop. she has told him, "not you, you do not have enough money for me." Somewhat tongue in cheek, but obviously she means it. Hmmm.
2) When I spent some time on match.com, my profile showed my income (which is very high in Austin). I am no Brad Pitt, but I had a slew of winks, e-mails and admirerers. Could be the muscles and six pack, I feature them. Could be my erudite background. Could be my propensity for travel and to see the world. Could be my love of hiking and nature. But i suspect it was checking that magic income box! Why is that any less or more superficial than a woman doinking a 6' 6" adonis, with not a pot to piss in?
3) Most of the women i dated had children, stretch marks, issues, vendettas. skeletons in their closet, venom in their displeasure towards men. Especially those of us with testosterone. I got laid, a lot. the old inversion of chronology in my age bracket i guess. I got better "smoking," and some very experienced positions. NONE of them made me feel as alive as my little Thai beauty. None had me wake up in the middle of the night, look at her, and think how lucky I was.
4) Men lust for beauty. Women for security. when marriage is considered, each gender relaxes the primary attributes, and fills in other tertiary things. With my fiancee, I get my primary attribute (steal my breath when i look at her), I get secondary (nurturing) and tertiary (smart, ambitious, deferential). Why should I apologize for what i want? women never do!

I ramble, but this Joycian stream of consciousness is what happens when you re-make yourself. Question your precepts. And find the former, sorely lacking. I am living again. Could end next week. One year. 5 years. 10 years. Could end badly, most marriages do. But if she knocks off a graduate degree, speaks wonderful English, and divorces me for the right reasons, I will miss her but smile. I will then move to chiang mai to retire, hike, fuck every day, and do it again.

CA

Greg says:

You make some good points CA. After my last and final serious relationship with an older woman, I was surprised to learn how important looks are to me. Now that I'm older, I stick to the younger women who physically turn me on. Physical attraction counts for a lot. That said, some of the best and most mind blowing sex I've ever had was with a modestly attractive 48 year old woman. A multiple orgasm squirter - quite rare.

Captain America says:

Greg,

Have not had a squirter in years, but a few times my finacee could legitimately called a 'flowing anomoly!"

it is not the sex that matters to me. It is the shocking joy of her on top, my hands on that TINY derriere, her age, the perfect skin, the beautiful color, the sheer femininity of her. She smells good. She takes three showers a day. Brushes her teeth five times a day. Will NEVER get in to bed with me without a shower. Seems to really want me to be happy. Gets mai sabaydee quickly if i work too hard, discuss her life in the bar (I have made it my commitment never to do so again, she curled up out of my arms, and threw herself on to the far end of the bed last time). She wants me to be proud of her.

I needed a tiny photo for the VISA. She took over 30 different shots, all sizes. Dressed very conservstively (which I did not even think to mention). Sent it EMS to me, 440 baht. Had it in 7 days. She wants to come here. Maybe, as Johnny might think...she can't wait to come and get her hands on my real check book. But no, I think she wants to grow. Got this today. I could kill her for inserting terroks, but I know she wrote this herself. When her "sisters" at the Internet Cafe write them, I could puke!

teeruk XXXXX.
I khow you long time . make me khow every think
about you self . you so thing tong .I want to tell you
. I love you XXXXXXXXX. you khow you make thing tong
too! when I here your voice .and when I miss you . I
smile only . XXXXXXX you khow . how much I love you.
How much I miss you. very much very much very much.
forever for me . forever my life. I want to tell you
100 % for marry . 100% for to be with you every where
I can stay If I have you. I trust you. my bushand .
we have good life togeter on future.
OK teeruk I will do every thing for us .
Please take care you self.
lakon teeruk

If half of that is true, it is more emotion than my Nordic Ice Princess ever expressed. What is LOVE? What causes divorce? I can not answer either question for any other person. But I know I love this suey maak little girl. As for the divorce, it won't be the sex losing something that causes it. It is not talking, from my own experience. I tell her everything I am feeling. Good. Bad. Ugly! She tells me much less, but if I spoke fluent Thai i bet it would be much more. She constantly tells me she is not "same same" as her friends. I believe her.

Dana says:

I will never believe that any woman anywhere writes a more affecting love letter than a Thai woman. They win me every time. I still have a letter from a woman who 'done me wrong'. Can't read it without losing my heart momentarily again. These ignorant uneducated women write the most beautiful love letters in the world. In my most cynical and most creative moment I couldn't write something as innocent and as winning as what they write. God love them for including me in the letter parts of their lives.

Pat Paulsen(hic..!) says:

Good stories CA

Dana,

I got one of those letters.

Three months, two weeks together, the longest tb/gf ever. Crying in the corner at Don Muang. Five months later she axed me. "Hey what's goin on?" But...she asked me back first, said she didn't like the bar, couldn't stand all the jerks, or a city with no car. Still I live a moment when her hand drawn cards come out, a part of my right vessel swells and even starts to sprout (6 years later). I told myself she wasn't "pretty," and there's oh so many walkin Mango city. You can always find a keeper, yeah they working in the bar, just get yourself a "sleeper"(hmnnn!) she'll be your only...(not in my car!)

Good luck!

Pat

Captain America says:

Dana and Pat,

Truth can be worse than fiction, so whatever her motivations I too am honored to be a recipient! Hopefully the only one; however, my ex-wife taught me that fidelity or lack thereof is but a state of mind.

Since precious few 20 year olds are on fire to date me back in the States, I have to take my walk on the high point of the risk/reward curve. Just like I will when I leave my cushy career in a few months for the rigors of entreprenuership! Once more, I harken back to the words of that most wooly of sages, the Dali Llama: Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.

Amen your Dali-ness.

jdman says:

CA,

Heart felt thoughts again. You have fallen bad haven't you? I have been there but have pulled back a bit since getting the perspective of this blog. Nonetheless, my GF's email letters continue to come. They warm and break my heart at the same time. I would like to share an old one with you. Her english is getting better with school but who knows could be the work of a scribe. Still put a tear in my eye and set my heart flying. This and other discussions along the same line brought on the "I want our baby now" letter I sent to Mango.

Hi Terak XXXXX,

I get your e-mail today I don't understand well. but I would try to do understand and I think you are worry to much about me terak. Don't you worry much I know you love me and care about me. I will take care of my life. I know who one love me is you. Terak sametime if i do make you worry I am sorry terak.

Don't worry about other man. I know you cant be 28 year old for me. and I no want it Why everytime you think me like young man? I know young man like me. but not want to be with them, I want man can take care of me and my family. I know young man don't like to do that, because them just have fun....and me never think of them more then friends....hope you do understand what I telling you!

You are only and first person that always give a nice thing for me and don't make me cry.
I am lucky to have you in my life. Can you remember? I said ... I want to have a baby...
(Thai half American) Can you give for me?
You are very good person... I think... Our baby will be lovely and good person like his father.
I do miss you... My dream is I want to have a baby with you..if I can. Now I know you are a good one for me. and make me feel want to have a baby. But sometime I'm so afraid, can't have a baby I worry very much. because I'm old and you also. Do you understand what I mean, If I can't have a baby. do you still want to be with me darling :) I'm so scared!!!!!!!

Where do you work now terak? Do you go to your home
already. This month I very busy because in my class more difficult and next week, we have to test.....I will do good for you :) I think next month I will learn more. now I learn 2 hour for day. but I want 5 hour for day in next month, what you think terak..I know I can do. But I very lonely.

If you love me why do you not try to be together..and then you can't know we're happy or not....Now you just think and dream and worries to
much!!!!!!! I know you have many friends. talking about Thai girl I don't care they are think of me. I do what I want to do.

Hope you are better today. I love you forever.

XXXXXX

Well CA (and the rest) ...shit like that is real poetry. These girls kill you emotionally (and physically when you can't jump on them morning noon and night). I am a wreck. The only girls I am attracted to now in the US are young and asian and I know why. Obviously looking for a substitute for my Thai GF. But it ain't the same and can't happen here. No 28 year old asian-american girl as shocking suay mak mak is going to hook up with me (a 52 year old two time divorced 'loser') unless she is a pure gold-digger. Why would they, they are getting hit on by plenty of younger guys here who are well off enough. The opportunity to turn the clock back by hooking up with my GF in LOS seems the chance of my lifetime. I feel like you CA and want to just roll the dice.

One other question. Are you planning on having a pre-nup agreement? Why would you not want to do that and at least safeguard what you have now ($2M as I recall). If your marriage goes south, she sounds smart enough to get a lawyer and take you to the cleaners in the good old US of A. This PNA must jive with visa rules I guess because I think you must agree to support the girl in the USA for the rest of her life whether you are married or not (someone in the blog said that). But I don't think that has to be at the level she gets used to when you first get started together in Austin.

Maybe TK can comment from the legal perspective. Sorry, money is not romantic but having been gutted twice I am trying to help others avoid serious financial pain. Think of it this way. If this one goes south and you come out of it finacially intact, then you really can immediately go back and try again. If you are gutted, then you are stuck slaving away until you are 52 to get back to a secure state and by then you are in my own less than perfect shoes. Good luck but be careful.

Not telling says:

Snippet of a love letter:

Briefly, yes, these feelings of deep despondency and heartbreak are 100% about you not being with me physically. The feeling came from my body first, and it took awhile to get to consciousness. I feel I have good reason to supress the knowledge of separation from you - I don't think I could properly function without suppressing that. Lately the despondency is so deep that even my body has stopped trying to ward off disease and I have sore throats, stomach aches, ear aches, and head aches along with the tight solar plexus and feelings of sadness and lethargy. Spontaneous episodes of crying triggred by the simplest little things on TV. Today I did let in our connection a bit more, and cried about you not being here. I feel the same way about our connection - we are the same person. For me to have you physically not here is inconceivable. Dreadfully painful. The most extreme anguish I've ever experienced was the first three weeks after you left. Like constant dental work on body spirit and mind.

Ok, enough of that.

I love you and miss you too.

Captain America says:

LOS, Part V.

I leave for California Sunday night, two days of business. Then from San Jose to Los Angeles, and a nice flight on Cathay Pacific. My first ever First Class on an International Flight. Mostly to get some sleep so I can pierce those lovely lips the moment we are ensconced in our apartment. Now, I am not only talking of the nether lips. I have been told I am a very passionate kisser. My young fiancee seems to have very little desire to kiss, in the european sense of the word. She seems rather concerned about brushing her teeth, which are beautiful and white. She knows I brush, floss and take good care of my hygeine. So what have we here? is this a trait, no tongue shall enter her mouth lest it be a part of her Thai food repetoire? Or, have my rare oral probings turned her off? Enquiring minds...

Mixed emotions about my trip, most of the negatives are simple dread of the damn heat! She sent me e-mail this morning. To let me know she took a cab last night, but traffic was so bad she hopped on to a motorcycle. She claimed she was so hot by the time she got home she could not get in the shower fast enough. Then she joked, she wondered if she was hot what I would have been like! Sometimes I am rather surprised I enter her mind, as like many posters we wonder what the hell these mysterious creatures think about. What in God's name do they talk about on the phone? We have all seen a bit of the "far away bar girl syndrome." She is right next to you, but the little cogs are turning, ever so slowly. Tophet's Wheel, with little tiny calculations, machinations, manipulations being dreamt of. hell, they go eight moves deep, so why are all grand masters male? Are women so fucking smart, they avoid chess because then we would KNOW how smart they really are?

Well, as my fellow countryman would say-"Why ask why?" They are indeed treacherous, but when bent over a bed, with that perfect gon beckoning, we men are oblivious to the sign- "DANGER, Do Not Enter!"

Peace, happy trails, and may your moments of bliss be devoid of the concommitant moments of complete and utter recognition of how women can fuck up your life!

Captain America says:

Aww shit JDMAN, I understand. yes, these little things are adroit in using written acupencture on our hearts!

I also, for the first time in my life, understand that pyshically it is a young person's world. Rationalizing helps. My ex and I had a couple of swapping episodes while our marriage was young, and I was in grad school. It taught me that monogomy was no more natural for men as women. our genes pull us towards procreating with a healthy lady (read young!) and theirs with a man who can provide. They often try out frivolous sex. One would think a bar girl has had enough of the frivolous kind. She wants a real man who can take care of her to have a baby with. My fiancee is very clear about her fears. She hates thunderstorms, and probably would cheat on me not to be alone when they happen. her biggest fear is having a kid, and the man running off to leave her to fend. FEAR, can be a bigger motivator than lust. I believe you need to find a way to get your GF to the USA. Get her out of the cycle of sex for money. You can handle the questions from friends and collegues. Your 52 god damn it, you can do whatever makes you happy. That is the essence of Americanism.

I have been told to get a pre-nup. My attorney tells me that pre-existing conditions are inviolate, she can never get this $2M. She can only sue for assets acquired during the marriage. I was very benevolent with thhe first wife. Since she cheated, Texas allowed me to sue her for infidelity, and take 70% if I could prove it (easy, she was already living with the guy!). I gave her 65%, owing to her being devoid of earning potential. if my little missy leaves after a few years, will gladly share what she helped me earn. She does NOT gamble, barely drinks, does not smoke, used to be an athlete in school (volleyball and basketball). So I hope the usual BG nightmares in farangland will not occur.

JD, make a commitment to her. Save YOURSELF. Your 52, and she lights you up! Money is not the panacea everyone believes. You KNOW that, you have had it and lost it. Please fucking listen to me again, "It is not the top, but the side of the mountain that sustains life." I have had more fun earning money, than counting it.

Peace. Best of luck.

Greg says:

Post irony is the future. You can say something, critisize your own viewpoint, ridicule the society that gave rise to your viewpoint, and be perfectly sincere, all at the same time.

Form and emptiness.

Dean is our guiding light.

Greg says:

If I were gay, I would probably want to suck his dick for a while. But I am not gay, so I do not want to do that.

Greg says:

Oh man - I made a bunch of posts under the names of anon 1, anon 2 etc. I guess they were stupid enough that David removed them. Damn. They weren't meant to be stupid. Maybe he thought they were spam?

jdman says:

I hope your lawyer was speaking for all states of the union. California is pretty much a woman's nazi paradise on this issue and if you are in front of a female judge...watch your balls because she will want one of them too!

Thanks for the upbeat advice though. As I said, I am hurting too much by the separation from my TGF to last much longer. I will need to take the bullet and find out if it is fatal or not. I might love the pain of the climb as you say more than being on top of the mountain.

Captain America says:

JD,

I'm having a bite of trepidation myself. We have had a rough two weeks on e-mail, phone, video-conference. I am starting to see the things I will miss with her. I am worrying about many of the things that haunt you.

Guess this is a supreme lack of confidence (rare for me!), precipitated by the horrible way the lady i trusted most in the world tore my heart out last time. :-( Almost begs the point, is sex, companionship, pressed shirts, and love worth it? Who really gets the better deal? I find, already i am a little jealous of how easy I have made her life. Reminiscent of my former wife. Shit, ain't nothing better than being a babe. Get a bunch of men to fall all over themselves to take care of you.

Off to LOS in a few days. Strangely, I am not looking forward to this one. Have cancelled Spain, and South Africa this year. I usually liek to vacation in new spots, with wine producing regions! Instead, five trips to a part of the world I really do not care to see for a while.

Yep, this ain't easy. The good news? it is NOT due to her cheating, my cheating, or uncertainty of her feelings. it is more importantly, "do I want to be married again?"

CA

Pat Paulsen says:

JD and CA,

No matter how things work out you'll be better off for all of this; for having begun to trust in love again, for finding someone foxy enough to share that love with, for opening your hearts, again. These beliefs will enrich your lives once more, no matter how things turn out. And then, who knows, maybe you'll get even luckier. I envy you! Tam sabai la chok dee!

Pat

Cog says:

Posted by Captain America | July 29, 2004 07:09 PM
"I believe you need to find a way to get your GF to the USA. Get her out of the cycle of sex for money."

IMO, this is sound advice.

Discovering first-hand the efficacy of removing the 'girl from the bar' is a risky proposition; however, if one finds oneself in such a predicament, success of conducting the social experiment can by explored by neutralizing the expression of unwanted traits; the subject must be isolated from undesirable stimuli. The longevity of the relationship is directly proportional to the distance the BG is in relation to her past environment. The lunar surface would be a recommended location to establish base camp.
[The BG Relationship Manifesto: chapter 1]

Question to the Captain: In loving this girl, have you made peace with the fact that you will be the moo juice...cash cow...for her family?

Captain America says:

Firstly, a warm choke dii to pat! Very heartening response, in this jaded think tank.

COG, I am well aware that character and temprement are immutable, and determined by nature. Still, even those things which can not be changed react differently in different environments. Sort of like chemical reactions. Add some inert nitrogen or noble gas, and even paper won't rot!

As for being moo juice, afraid I have held on to that title for over 20 years! many a farang lady, has been treated very well by me. Frankly, so have all of my friends. It would tick me off royal to see my money go for frivolity up country, and I would ax them in a heartbeat if it funded drinking, gambling, or other sundry activities. I like my future in-laws. So far, they are sincere, simple, gentle, proud, have asked for nothing. I would also like to choke them to death, for sending an innocent kid, who lost her virginity, cried for weeks on end, and still sent 50-70% of the proceeds to her folks. they were not in desperate need. Pisses me off something fierce. What is done. is done. Did she eventually like it? I am convinced that physically a hard dick feels good to almost every woman. Emotionally? Six weeks hurt her. I can not even talk about her time there, she gets extremly sad. her first time with me, she said working in bar was "up to her." she has since admitted, 'this is where my mother send me, to THIS place." Christ, and I bought drinks in the god damn bar, and perpetuated the whole sordid mess. Ethnocentrism on my part? yea, I guess. nothing wrong with fucking for money, this has been MUCH more honest than a marriage license with a farang pooying. Still, I would have enjoyed meeting her, courting her, chasing her, NOT saving her.

Wow, my ramble jets have hit Mach 2.

got an e-mail from the faen of one of my fiancee's friends. An American pilot. Nice guy, they all like him. He has been noticably absent a few months. Asked me to hand his cutie an ATM card when i am there, so he saves the $40 wire transfer fee. He is married. I discussed this with my lady. I told her he was a bad man, two timing his wife. She laughed. I then asked her how it would feel if I had mia noi, maybe with one of her friends? In near perfect Angkrit, "I shoot you with gun. Jealous, khou jai mai?" It is a fucked up country, morally devoid. In some ways. In others? Light years more advanced than the piteously repressive crap i have been fed since birth. Thailand may well drive me insane. it is the geographical equivalent of Dorian Gray's fucking mirror.

I guess the reason i am so nervous is, I think i do her a DIS-service moving her to Texas, in a 5000+ sq ft home, giving her a brokerage account with $100,000 US, a Nissan 350 ZX convertible, and all the trappings. They do not call them trappings for nothing.

Had a brutally hot party up country with her family last visit. Mosquitos. Warm beer. Strange little mollusks eaten with a lethally hot red sauce. Sweat dripping down my every pore. She sat near me, I understood nothing of the conversations. She would not drink, but encouraged me to drink with her father and uncle. End of the night, her mom comes to talk to me. Sawatdee ca. Sawatdee krhap. My daughter loves you, she says haltingly. Phom rak XXXX I blather. "her tell me, you good man." Khap khun krhap. "Her tell me you you love her." Yes I do. "Her not want anything from you, just be good." I know. "We not want from you." I will give you, but please never ask unless you have to. And i give, ONLY to you, father, sister. Only. "We say thank you." She then, grabs me by my nads, pets, twists turns. Smiles, and says something like "mai lek! Good." I told her daughter the next day, as i was buried inside of her. She laughed, say mother always complain father not too big!

Insanity. I feel, like Kurtz did in Apocolypse Now. Except, when Conrad wrote the bugger, it was fiction. When the movie was restructered, it was escapist fiction. it ain't. In all of us, is a little raw human. Mine wants to fuck my mother in law. My 12 year old sister in law, and every woman, in every club, beer bar, Seven 11, and streetcorner in thailand. These women are just fucking amazing. Like NOTHING I have ever seen. My friend fucked me up royal taking me there. Just like a heroin addict shooting up his best friend, so they had more in common.

I am 43. I might not make 50, but I am going to have a lot of fun with the money still left. I once had $6M, a tall blond, shot a 72 on good days, many friends, and was a virulently unhappy man. I have much less now, will probably have my heart torn out, break every one of the 10 fucking commandments, and could care less if I even break my life long vow of fidelity. Hell, I honestly (seriously!) do not care if she cheats. I qualified expert with my Colt 1911, and even with AIDS would be quite capable of hitting my uvula!

Choke dii you fellow fuck ups. My old buddy Neitszche once said, "stare in to the abyss, the abyss stares right back at you." My abyss is connected to an 85 lb girl/woman. She smiles. laughs. Crys. Loves. learns. Pours viscous fluids on cue. And will one day smile over my lifeless body. And even that, I consider the sweetest of truths.

peace my friends. At least we all understand each other. Nit noi.

Greg says:

Nice, CA.

Captain England says:

Captain America,what's happened,I've sat and read all your letters and everyone elses concerned and you've gradually gone from being excited and looking forward to getting married to having a few reservations now and not quite sure which way to go.
My advice is stick with your original plans and don't be influenced by others/scaremogerers who have maybe had bad experiences with Thai women or have overdone it in Thailand and ended up all bitter and twisted.
I've been happily married to my wife now for 5 years with now with one daughter and although we've had our differences I've got no regrets,and I'm only 36.
Everyone to their own,just do what you feels right for you,anyway..Chok di Krap

Captain America says:

Cap england,

thanks so much for the response, and for the compass reading!

I am back to normal now. Had a bit of a row with work, thhey are none too pleased I am leaving on yet another two week Thailand sojourn, Honestly? other than seeing her, I am not too pleased eiither. Thailand messes with me precepts! :-) Polarizes me. Love hate. And, I am afraid to get married again. to anyone. Further, i am LONELY in america. I travel so much, my life was already disjointed. now? Feel like the stranger in my own neighborhood. This too shall pass.

Would like to retract a few things from my previous comments. I do not want to cheat on her. A Part of me says, "if I cheat first, won't hurt so much if she does." Artifacts of the duplicity my EX through my way. No reflection on the lovely young lady who has stolen my every thought.

Lastly. Her past bothers me. I am having trouble assimilating it. My mind is tortured with pictures of seedy motels, fat Germans, short time, long time, and all the sundry shit that comprises a man getting his rocks off for 2000 baht. Her first time with me, i gave her 6000 baht Thai, and 4000 baht american. The $20 bills did not register with her, so I helped her do the exchange rate (she certainly knew Yen). She had a big, big, big smile. Sawat Dee Ca. Sawat dee ca. Same thing the next night. She had her little lesson books with her, frst Japanese then Angkrit. Her makeup was all gone inthe morning. A small blemish or two. A little girl. It was one of the most endearing, distressing, and soul stirring moments of my life. The seond one was meeting the ex for the first time, she took my breath away as well. The third? Has to be her new apartment/condo, first night. Her in pajamas! Sitting on her couch, 6 hours of us going over English and Thai. Holding hands. Hugging. Eating sticky rice. Ordering room service, her giving me all the best bits of stuff. My God, suddenly I understood why men and women were created. Why we are different. her life, is pleasing others. No wonder ALL women are neurotic, they always come second, even to themselves! A lesson for me. Big, bad, worldly me has learned quite a few from her.

I love her. INTENSELY. And for the first time, I understand why men do not show up at the alter! Crap, she scares me silly.

CA

Captain America says:

An observation. Perhaps thai bar girls are the ne plus ultra of male pleasure and duplicity for a reason? If you lived in a country in which you were essentially powerless, you too would hone any skill in which parity or survival could be sustained. Men are silly putty in the hands of an accomplished lady, in ANY culture. But in Isaan, we are dealing with a persistant art form.

On my last trip, my little lady wore traditional Thai regalia and danced in a trang trang dance. She has a spectacular voice as well. I was in awe. Floored. Over whelmed with pride, enjoyment. The first night I met her I stuck a rubber coated cock in her, and watched her wince. Months later, here was an innocent little girl dancing in a fashion thhat predates the birth of my country.

Contrasts make life interesting, and Thailand is replete with them. Almost more than I can handle though!

CA

Greg says:

You are a wise, heartfelt and considered man.

I agree with some other posters that love is a part of life best embraced - the good and the bad. I don't agree that marriage is.

Cross cultural marriages work for some, work poorly or not at all for others. I'm starting to think that a lot depends on what ones needs in relationship are.

For a temporary relationship from 6 months to a few years, sharing love and communion and sex is very good. A minority of us aren't satisfied with love and communion and sex. I think you have to ask yourself what is really important to you in intimacy, if you can expect to get that with your bride, and if you can afford to loose it.

I'm going through a mini nervous breakdown triggered by a crisis of meaning. I'm not complaining, I've had a great run here in Thailand. I played out some long standing fantasies, and I'd do it all over again, starting from where I was when I arrived. But not standing from where I am now. From where I stand now, I'm ready for a deeper level of intimacy that I can not seem to find with a Thai.

Intimacy is bandwidth. Communion depends on communication. The love that passes between the eyes of two deep souls sends their hearts to commune with their timeless essense. You can't do that with someone with glassy cow eyes.

Most can feel strong attachment and many can open their bodies to commune spirit. But not all have an engine in their heart that pumps out the heat of love.

I'll stop here. I plan to take a few weeks and write an essay on this topic. I find that many have the attitude that as long as both partners have some affinity and perseverence that love can overcome and make a marriage "work". I'm of the opinion that people are of varying capacities and have varying interests, and that if the gap between people is too large, both loose out. A meaningful sense of emptiness and lonelyness is not something that should be part of a marriage.

I'm not saying marriage with a Thai can't be successful, I'm saying look to what you need to have deep intimacy in the various areas and at the various levels that you seek intimacy, and how much your partner is capable to provide that. If love is only available through marriage... Well, I would not pay that price. Love comes relatively easily. A marriage partner is very very rare.

Captain America says:

Greg,

I am just on the way out, but thank you for sharing your heart. Not something a man generally says to another one, but maybe we should.

Yes, intimacy is so much more than physical. I had a soul mate for the first 8-9 years of my marriage. I am trying to recapture it, with a young girl from a different planet. I understand how you have missed the company of those who understand your nuances, your essence. I too will most likely not find it in this relationship. But I am going to try. Two way street. I do not think america has anything on thai life: however, I am not one of the knee JERK liberals who excoriate their own country reflexively. America has brought freedom and growth to more people in the last 300 years than any nation save Britain in the past 1000.

I look forward to your essay, your write eloquently, emotively. it is a topic you cover that we all need to face, those of us who have forsaken the pallor of farang beasts, for the opulant exoticism of child women (not just talking chronology either!).

OTOH, my little lady sent me a note this afternoon. She chided me for wanting plastic surgery on my ears, which have been a source of annoyance for many years. She further chided me for working out against doctor's orders, have battled West Nile Fever for three weeks. Was happy to get the diagnosis too, as malaria, AIDS and hepatitis were my first worries! :-) Like any pychotic triathlete, I have been unable to give up the workouts, although the distannce has been curtailed by my weakness and pain.

My best friend has been married to his Thai lady for 12 years or so. she was a domestic in the Nepalese Embassy when he first met her. he did a hash run, and followed her up in the hills. Not well either, she tells me! They have never been close. In love? Yes, they both are. But lately he tells me he wishes he had not gotten married. She grew cold, more aloof than her norm recently. perhaps they came in to too much money. Perhaps it was the mia noi(s)? Maybe it is a cultural thing. We always laughed at him, thinking he needed someone easy to dominate. Most of us preferred his wife to him, as a human being! She learned very little english. he almost mai Thai. I hope to avoid that! I want to be part of her life. She is 10 years younger than my friend's wife when she entered the US. She had travelled though, to Russia and nepal. My little angel has seen Phuket! :-)

Have to go shower. off to dinner with three American pooying. Just friends. sushi. Must admit, nice to converse in my native tongue. Two weeks with all Thai folks gets me feeling mighty strange, frustrated. Hell, five days in Yii-pan drove me bonkers last month. Why don't these yokels learn English? Even if they hate us, we won the world Bank, and them!

My Beautiful XXXXXXX,

You make me very happy with e-mail.You give me good advice, and I listen to both you and doctor. it is funny, even though I am 43 and you are 20, i think maybe you more grown up than me! :-)

Thank you for telling me ear OK. You know, when you get blemish on face, you go to face doctor! To XXXXX, not see anything and you look suey maak, maak,maak to me! always! Many stupid people say thing to me about my ear. I want to fix for long time, this is good time to do it. I want you to be proud of your husband, when we go out together. I know that way a person look is not everything, but can be important some times. This is last ngoen i spend on XXXXX, I sorry it is so expensive (phaeng).

Today, I eat nit noi! In few hours, go out with Sonya, Rachel and paulette for sushi. New place open in downtown Austin, called Uchi! Then we go hear some music. Tomorrow (sunday), i try to find way to pack up things I buy for you! Stuff is not heavy, but big!

Today, after swim at river, i go to take my car in for cleaning. Looong time! What we call "detail." many, many rich people. Fancy cars. Mostly pooying, married pooying. Some have baby. Very nice, I like to play with the baby! I dream. I dream a lot. Dream of you in Austin, Texas. Lawn today, 37 degrees! Dream you take car to get cleaned. You play with our son, or daughter while you wait. You look so pretty, and happy. You come home, we get babysitter (girlt o watch baby). We go out for nice dinner, then maybe to dance or movie. Come home. We play with baby together. I change diaper! Pheww! :-) Bad smell, but OK for me! I hug you. Kiss you. Our life together is good. You take care of house and baby, I work so that you have good life. If you want, make me happy XXXXX.

I also dream of city called San Francisco? You hear of? In California. On ocean. Can be cold, but not too cold. Pretty. We stay in hotel, high up. Go out in evening, go to old farang music we call Classical Music. 200 musicians. Beautiful music. Most from Russia, Germany, Italy, Farang-Set, Angkrit (Britain). Can be 300 years old. I hold your hand as we listen, and give you small juup. You have on black dress, and look more suey maak than any lady i ever see. I am deep in love with you. In heart. It is good for me XXXX. Very good. I love you. I know that. I trust you too. Everything. We are both going to be happy together, in my dreams you smile. You feel safe. Your family is happy. You learn about my culture, and I learn about yours.

OK, have to take shower now! See you in a few days.

When i come to Tahiland, we have many good things to talk about.

XXXXXXXX

Captain Ugly american

Dana says:

I'm exhausted. Enough already. We are starting to talk like girls. Somebody marry somebody and good luck to you. I've got my own problems. One of my balls is lower than the other.

Captain America says:

Dana,

Choke dii khrap, you ignorant, undescended testicle, fucked up saharat american bastard! :-)

You go first, and repeat this phrase (first heard in the Wizard of Oz, muttered lowly by one of those monkeys)..."marriage ain't forever."

Ciao. Wait fuck that. La khon.

CA

Typical Anonym says:

I rolled the dice and married a Thai woman who I barely knew.

Flash forward a few years: we're in the US now and are very happy together. Hasn't all been a bed of roses but we have a successful marriage based on love and respect.

One observation:

IMO you are making a huge mistake with talk of seeding her life in the US with thousands of dollars, a car, etc. You are sending the wrong message, reinforcing the notion that she deserves all of this just because she makes you happy in a way that suits *you*, and not because of anything of true substance and worth that she's accomplished to earn it. You are also throwing too much at her all at once and as someone who has had nothing in life, she is simply not equipped with the cognitive ability to deal with all of it, especially as she'll simultaneously be trying to adapt to all the other issues with relocating, etc. Finally on this, throwing money around does not help you to feel sure that she loves you and not just the promise of a better life -- those things naturally go together to some degree but if her love is driven primarily by financial comfort, you have not found a soul mate (note that I said "if her is love is driven by financial comfort" and not "if she is with you only for the money").

Captain America says:

Typical,

You are 100% correct, I need to put this genie back in the bottle. I HONESTLY do not think she wants those things, and it has been my fault in describing and then providing them.

She does know, I love HER. of all our discussions, I emphasize learning, university, seeing the world. Sure, it takes money to provide those things, but she knows I want her to work hard to grow. THAT, is a stretch for her. she does not consider herself smart, calls herself of "low birth." I am working very hard to build up her self esteem. She is a very, very shy, quiet, reserved girl by Thai standards. What she did in that bar did a number on her.

Thanks so much for telling me you too were happy, after rolling the dice. Not knowing the background, i will assume my situation resonates.

This trip, I will be very economical. She is a very proud girl, and I think she does not like me buying for her. She bought me workout clothes for my last visit, and she (and her friends confirmed this!) said she spent hours picking it out for me! I was very touched. she apologized it was not expensive, and I told her that the best gifts are not expensive. She smiled.

I have to curb my jealousy and mistrust. I did some damage questioning her about the friend's customer who ate in our apartment, and then getting angry she went out and got plastered at RCA for her friend's birthday. I tried to explain, that if I had been a gigalo, she might be mistrustful. But (surprise!) that was the dumbest thing I might have said. We will NEVER discuss her past again. One poster here said earlier, I probably do not want to know everything anyway. What is to be gained?

I FEEL she loves me, and would stay if my circumstances were more modest. However, I am a very complex man, and she had one boyfriend before the bars. She was a virgin when she entered G-Spot. She does not know men. I am finding, maybe I do not know women either?

What are some of the pitfalls for your wife? Was climate, food, shopping, loss of big city life a concern?

Thanks for sharing...

CA

Typical Anonym says:

It's not so much that she doesn't want those things. It's that she's not yet equipped to understand what those things are, how to use them, why they are important, and most importantly, what their worth is in terms beyond money.

You cannot build her self-esteem over the course of a few weeks or months. It takes *YEARS* because it wasn't only the bar that did a number on her. Thai society does not treat its majority well at all and she is the product of a system that's designed to keep her poor and subservient to the established order. She's been more or less disenfranchised her whole life and you will spend years undoing it. Seems trivial to us as Americans, from an egalitarian society but don't underestimate how foreign it may be to her to just have opportunities and how overwhelming that may be at first.

So the most important thing your wife will learn from you is simply this: she is important. She will be more respected and more important as a member of society here in the US than she ever was in Thailand (I am immensely proud to be American in this regard). With your love, support, and importantly, high expectations, she will start to internalize the notion of her importance over time and her self-esteem will improve.

For whatever reason, we did not have the standard "farangland" issues. My wife has proven to be adaptable and flexible. She's pretty good with farang food, climate isn't too much of a problem, and we've managed pretty well with the other stuff. But we've taken it slow and she's had plenty of time to acclimate at her own pace. Beware of pressuring her and set expectations you think she can actually live up to.

Dana says:

There are plenty of Thai female deaf blind mutes. Maybe they should be given a chance. I think it would make a lot of the 'transition' issues easier.

Captain America says:

Typical,

Great advice. Greatly appreciated. She knew, instinctively that the computer I gave her was critical. She went out on her own, added Microsoft Office, particularly Excel as she wishes to be a degreed accountant. My constant expectation for her is to learn Angkrit fluently, and she has proven very capable. Your correct, she has little sense of self. it is all "my family need me, make you happy" type pablum. She is quite afraid of her own success, but also very desirous now.

On our third meeting, i showed her the dossier on my friend, his wife, the school and foundation they had set up. it was the info packet he sends to large donors, the Ministry of Education, etc. She looked at the pictures, saw my friend, his wife, the kids. Looks at me, and says "Her name and my name?" As if to say, one day we have children and be married. In the next sentence, she mutters "what you want with stupid me though?" Yep, will take years to prove to her she is important, and has much more value than on her knees (where she still has little talent!). sometimes, she acts like I am hurling mean or evil barbs at her for telling her she will have either her car shop, a restaurant or a great job upon graduation. Classic retort, "if you think so." Yes, she was a second class citizen as a women, and the whole family is lower caste. Leon Seligman, famous psychologist proposed a theroem of "learned helplessness." Put a dog in a box and shock it repeatedly. Open the door, so that it can escape. Shocked long enough, it will just sit there and accept the pain.

She is impproving. And almost all of my friends in Austin are strong women, and they will (alas!) probably inculcate the classic American female psychosis to outdo us guys!

I asked her (we were looking at pictures of her) what her goals were at 17. She did not like her family. She said, graduate high school, get a good job, give her family money for five years so they would not pressure her, and then join a nunnery! As mentioned before, 'tis a filthy land of contrasts."

CA

Dana says:

Jesus, Commander America--

If you blather on this much in your marriage you are doomed. Put a cork in it.

Captain America says:

Dana,

I'm not the stoic type. However, I have killed men with my bare hands, and dare think your heart would make a tender, but tiny snack.

Do not read my posts, go punt all the whores you can afford (which does not sound like many you cheap fuck). But this is a board, a blog, a place to share thoughts, rambles, Joycian stream of consciousness if need be.

if you would like, we could meet up in Bangkok, and I could insure in under 60 seconds you never need to read again.

Putz.

Dana says:

Ahoy Captain--

You and Dean should get together. You could call your love child 'Verbose'.

Chok dee maak maak maak maak maak maak
Dana

Gimpy1 says:

Are you happy with her? If you feel you are her knight in shining armor and the answer to her life, great. You only have to answer to yourself. Why are you tryng to justify your decisions to a bunch of clowns/clownettes like Tania, Dana and myself? You're the guy who has to live with your decisions. Not us! If you can trust her, given her background, jump in with both feet. If not, cut her loose. Simple as that! If you do jump in and you get burned, please do us a favor though and come back to the site and whine about how a former prostitute burned you. We can all use the laugh!

Captain America says:

Gimpy,

Well said my friend! I will buckle up, and enjoy the ride. AND, will consider it a badge of honor to come back with Thai food all over my face, if God Forbid that happens. :-)

I do not feel like her Knight though, just a guy who finally has her best interests at heart. The sex is great, 20 year old asses can't be beat. But watching her becoming a woman, growing in many ways, is much better. Sappy? Unapologetically so.

CA

Greg says:

I know of no more powerful an alchemy than the mixture of sexual and paternal urges.

My girlfriends all call me "Daddy". Daddy, oh Daddy I love you!"

Greg says:

Every now and again I come across some new neurological or anthropolical or social science discovery of what men or women find attractive. In this day and age of equality, we need to be reminded that we can not consciously choose to be attracted or unattracted to certain traits, and that our native proclivities do not make us any more or less shallow.

Men prefer smaller woman with features that remind them of children. Someone recently put up a poll on the Thaivisa forum asking how tall and heavy and what age are the contributors to the site, and what are the stats for their mates. Generally the men chose women at least one head below their height, and very often half the weight. Age difference ranged from 5 to 25 years, with most more than 10.

Some young guys seethe when they see the old fart with his little girl. It can't be right. They must be payin for it. What many don't understand is how the old guy young girl father/daughter type of sexual relationship goes together like tongue and groove jointery.

I've only ever had to mention just once to my girlfriends that I like to be called Daddy. Even if it sounds a bit funny, it was never really a foreign or strange idea. Ya, Daddy. I love you Daddy. It is a hugely powerful dynamic, that people unfamiliar with too easily dismiss. And it is no more sick than our love of a pretty young face - we are just built to be available to that emotional dynamic.

Greg says:

This forum has lately been blessedly free of posters with nothing at all to say, but who manage to say it as loud and insultingly as possible.

During my stroll by the waterfall today, these thoughts popped out from the unborn ether:

I think I saw you at the bar. You were that guy sitting alone, talking out loud at the TV, as if to the bartender. You imposed your presence on the person beside you, thinking that you were just being "friendly", and after your new friend has let out a few modest sentences you felt compelled to disagree.

Something about his presence bothered you. You seemed eager to both gain his respect and show him up. His presence might have been a painful reminder to you that you have nothing in your life that you care about, no direction, and no purpose. He had the gaul to show up, looking all hoidy toidy, thinking he was so clever. You started to speak even more loudly than your usual raised voice, and I heard you say "Oh ya! You think you're so smart. Well, let me tell YOU something!"

You then forgot what you were going to say. This pissed you off even more, and you blamed the guy for interrupting you.

Captain America says:

Greg,

I understand "where" you are. Hang in there, it always gets better.

If I had to live in thailand, my sanity would not be long for this world. Given that the kwaii who live there LIKE their own culture, I see now why it is so hard to adopt to Farangland! At least I have traveled most of the world, even some spots more grim for poor folks than Thailand. In Africa, you starve in desert like, or flood conditions. In thailand, khou will sustain you, and things to eat grow almost everywhere. But what do you think about, thrashing about with snakes in the rice fields? Sitting in a dingy house, where not much works? No wonder, mai pen rai is the mantra.

Greg. Go home my friend. Rebuild the tendrils that hold you to your past, your origins. I prefer the devils I know, and fully intend to gingerly, patiently, diligently turn my beautiful fiancee in to an American. Call me ethnocentric, tell me I am a monomaniacal, ugly american. But I LOVE my country. The freedoms. The debates. The manner in which problems are faced, discussed, fixed. The diversity. The porosity of class and wealth (both directions). The opportunity to attack a politician, throw him the hell out (especially if the word nuclear is beyond his capabilities!).

Yes, I am sitting in the dang Admirals Club, waiting for American to get their damn S80 airborne. I came to the airport on time this morning, forgot my passport! Got a different flight. made the 1 hour drive home, drove back. 2 hour delay! My boss will not be happy! 2 days in Northern Kalifornia, then LAX to Bangkok. Had a great call with my lady this morning, while driving home. She LOVES when i do something stupid, and appreciates my self-deprecating humor (Your darling is ting tong and stupid!). She is a good, good kid.

I sense, she is getting stronger emotionally. She is going to be OK. Yes, I love her both like a daughter and a future wife. Yes, with a daughter this beautifuul it is fun to fuck her brains out. Went to Nordstroms yesterday. Ugly, older man with his gorgeous teenage daughter. She must have been 17, and her mom must be a stunner. How her daddy would love to slide his gnarled cock in and out of her trap door. After all, we know that testosterone courses through his veins. This is a woman's world, has been for a long time. Thailand, reverese the farang emascualting effects.

WHY, do these airports only have the Communist News Network on? On a good note, they have copied FOX news and hired attractive women!

CA Away

John U says:

Greg,

I am not quite in agreement with you because I can't see any of them being so assertive in real life.

I'm convinced they are people who fail to win any arguments in the real world through lack of confidence, lack of knowledge or whatever.

But on the internet they try to boost themselves by never giving in and continuing the argument ad nauseum. They supplement their lack of knowledge by doing quick "googles", and then regurgitating the information in support of their argument.

That's why we see so many experts springing up throughout these long drawn out tirades.

Captain America says:

John,

No doubt an anonymous forum provides shelter from the shit storm that life is for some. Still, I wonder how much MORE truth pours out, removed from the face to face embarassment some of these topics might evince? I only have one or two friends who will know my fiancee's background. We have an elaborate artifice for how we actually met. She is, rightfully, embarassed by what she has done. Another year doing it? Would have become hard, jaded, barren in the emotional department. I suspect. Still, I think folks like JDMAN are incredibly honest. I certainly have been, and will continue to be.

Choke dii to all who have beaten this thread silly (with my verbose treatise being the most cumbersome). I do not write efficiently, but I write from the jai.

CA (Off to new threads, now that I have some Thai Experience!)

Greg says:

Ca says "Greg. Go home my friend."

CA - I am a Gypsy. My home is what is around the next bend. I'm going to build an ocean going boat and that will be my home. A yaght for a man is like red fuck me shoes for a woman.

My birth country Canada is home to the people who make me laugh most easily. I am home there. My other home country the U.S. at this time just makes me too angry to stay there. It frightens me. Floating on a boat, investing in real estate, and for my retirement years building or partaking in an existing meditation oriented community is my plan for now.

I fly the all black Gypsy flag.

Greg says:

Notable quotables:

"But I LOVE my country. The freedoms. The debates. The manner in which problems are faced, discussed, fixed. The diversity. The porosity of class and wealth (both directions). The opportunity to attack a politician,"

"Yes, with a daughter this beautifuul it is fun to fuck her brains out"

"How her daddy would love to slide his gnarled cock in and out of her trap door."

Did I understand you right that you are (by now) in a plane on the way to BKK? If the local gods influence south american butterfly wings such that we cross paths, I'll be happy to say hi and offer a drink.

TANAI KWAI says:

"Yes, with a daughter this beautifuul it is fun to fuck her brains out"

"How her daddy would love to slide his gnarled cock in and out of her trap door."

If I understand you guys correctly, incest is really hot, what with the alchemy and all.

That's why I feel so comfortable in Thailand. Here in the U.S. I barely have a toehold in polite society, but in Thailand I can't swing an innocent little girl's rag doll without hitting somebody more depraved than me.

What's your name?
(What's your name?)
Who's your daddy?
(Who's your daddy? He rich?)
Is he rich like me?

(ay ay ay)

Greg says:

TK, I'm guessing you can tell the difference between actually having sex with a daughter and talking about how the older man/father and younger girl/daughter dynamic is powerful for both men and women.

I'm guessing that you also find young women sexually attractive.

I'm guessing you are uncomfortable with the metaphorical allusion enough to think that even the allusion is depraved.

CA pointed out that some fathers might actually be sexually attracted to their daughters. He's certainly right. Nothing depraved about that - only following through could be problematic.

I once had a girlfriend who liked to roleplay all sorts of depraved dynamics. It's amazing the forms intimacy can take - I recommend the explorations.

Prorogue says:

At a guess (hermeneutics?) I'd say TK has a wicked sense of humour and doesn't need to roleplay.

More Burritos anyone?

(__0__) <--- My bum

o <-- Go figure ma petit Enchilada

John U says:

Hermeneutics......

Good one. Never heard of it before.

Some well educated people on this site.

I'm impressed. :<0

Isabel II says:

OK, I'm back, because I feel the need to make a very important Public Service Announcement.

In the interest of saving whatever is left of young, virile masculinity out there, on the assumption that some of these young men are still salvagable, and may return to the West one day, listen carefully:

Most young, thinking, hot women in the West do not want a fucking father figure (excuse the pun). Actually, the idea for many of us is downright revolting.

Contrary to what you may have read on this forum or other forums like it, about women needing a father-figure in their lovers/husbands, I want to tell you that is one of the biggest loads of detritus ever to be unleashed by a bunch of over-the-hill, self-serving men.

But then again, most of these men don't want a thinking woman, hence the reason for this site. I guess it's no small coincidence that S.E. Asia has some of the highest incest rates in the world:
30-50 % (Unicef). This assures a constant supply of primed and desensitized sex workers, and compliant wives.

Yeah, miss you too,

Isabel II

mr peter says:

Is that it, has she buggered off again for good? All this chatter about would be daughter shaggers wrapped up in some of the most pretentious pseudo intelectual crap I have seen in a long time makes me a bit uneasy. Are there really so many wanabee gary glitters out there?-peter

Greg says:

Hi Isabell2

At the age of 33 I was very seriously involved with a 44 year old woman. She explicitly explained to me how much she wanted a father figure in her man. I used to call her my daughter sometimes when we made love, and it made her feel cherished and safe.

YOU don't want a father figure. Many other women also don't. There is a niche market for that commodity that you underestimate.

Greg says:

A few more thoughts. A woman wanting to be physically dominated from time to time, or wanting to feel physically protected, has nothing to do with not being peers and nothing to do with wanting a subservient women who needn't think. Feminist issues of equality have way overstretched the bounds of what being equal means to include being the same. We aren't the same - men and women are very different. Many women want the stereotypical male archetype, and many men want the stereotypical male archetype. Modernity or post modernity has little influence on our innate drives.

David says:

Isabel II

Part of your comment was directed at me.

"Most of these men don't want a thinking woman, hence the reason for this site."

Whatever gave you the idea that the purpose of my website is to introduce men to non-thinking women? Presumably, you mean Thai women - who, in my experience, have just as lively a mind as anyone else.

To label people as "non-thinking" on racial grounds is pure bigotry and I'm surprised to hear you expressing this view.

Did you really mean what you said or was it just a poor choice of words?

Greg says:

"To label people as "non-thinking" on racial grounds is pure bigotry"

Or it could be clumsy social commentary. For instance you wrote a piece about the quality of reading material in Thailand. You noticed a trend in intellectual persuits that compares negatively to habits other countries.

David says:

A trend that results from failures in the educational system - and has nothing to do with race.

Do you disagree, Greg?

Greg says:

David - is it possible to upgrade to a weboard that has post editing capabilities?

More thoughts on sexual kinks. At the age of 22 I had an odd encounter. On my first night in bed with a very beautiful and extremely large breasted 22 year old, she kept demanding that I pinch her nipples harder. I was getting cramps in my hands, and it was difficult to comply. I had never come across anything like this before. She wanted pain during sex, and it turned her on. I just couldn't grok it. We only dated for a few weeks, but the experience shook me up a bit. Weird chick, I had thought.

Now I admit to liking my nipples being bitten really hard.

My point is that just because something seems foreign and twisted to you and just because you really just don't grok it, doesn't mean that your way is more sane or more intimate or more respectful. There are endless possibilities that are sane and respectful that you have never tried and will never will understand. That's a good thing, isn't it?

Sex very often involves power dynamics. Jeesus I would not want to be involved with someone over sensitive to power dynamics in the bedroom. Sometimes I like to be pushed around like a rag doll and be receptive, sometimes I like to push around my lover like a rag doll and rape the living shit out of her. Dominance and submissiveness is part of sex. That's a good thing.

Greg says:

"A trend that results from failures in the educational system - and has nothing to do with race."

Yes, I agree. Comments about Thais not thinking are therefore not necessarily racist, but can be cultural comments.

David says:

I can't provide editing tools, Greg, but, if you want me to remove/amend a comment, just drop me a line.

David says:

I enjoy identifying and discussing the differences in Thai/farang culture, Greg, but Isabel's (apparent) suggestion that the Thai race is incapable of thinking is grossly generalised and insulting - which is why I described it as bigotry.

Are you trying to get into her pants or something?

Greg says:

I see your point, David.

David says:

Nipple-biting is a much more interesting topic. Let's return to that.

Isabel II says:

ok, let me elaborate my thoughts further, because it's not fair to drop a bomb like that and leave.

Greg: I've always found most of your coments to be sensitive and thoughtful. I should have included a line in my above statement that there is a difference between fantasy and action. I recognize the difference, as you recognized the difference in your post. No need to edit your post on account of my comment, because this post should clear up that presumed ambiguity (unless it is my post you want edited/deleted, I don't know). No, I don't think your comments revealed you to be an incest predator or pedophile. Sometimes I write a post that relates to a culmination of things that I've read from various threads on this site, and other sites. I have to admit that most of the men on this site seem far more intelligent than other sites, albeit just as angry. But at least I get to argue with intelligence for a change.

I have no problem with submissive/dominant dynamics in a sexual relationship, and even stated in one of my first posts on this site that I think most women do want to be dominated by the men they find sexually attractive. In fact, I will go further in saying that I can't really sustain an attraction to a man unless I feel that he is more sexually dominant than myself. However, as I also stated in a previous post, we all obviously have different perceptions and tastes about what it is to be dominant/dominated. For me, attractive sexual dominance does not equal belittling or condescending remarks simply because I am a woman voicing an unpopular opinion (or any opinon for that matter). But this is just an example that covers old ground.

David: ok, I do regret the line " .... hence this site" a little bit. After I posted I did think that I should have edited it out. But I still need to be honest about my statements and not sit here and deny my intent.

Is it really bigotry to recognize obvious cultural values and differences? Is it bigotry to state that Thai culture (in general) values form over substance, or stated another way, presentation over actual fact? Or is it only bigotry when one actually talks about it? If that is the case, this site can be accused of bigotry itself. David, you also write about a lot of unflattering qualities in Thai culture. I've found a lot of the articles useful, because it mirrors some of my own observations. Some of the comments and slant of the articles about farang women piss me off, but this is how you see/represent it. It represents what a fair number of men on this site want to read about foreign/western women. I can only post to disagree or not.

Of course there are thinking and very intelligent Thai people. Some are my friends, and were my exposure to the idea of Thailand before I ever came here. And yes, the educational system here is abysmal and most Thais in this system are not encouraged to think for themselves, but to merely follow directions. The patron/client system adds to this burden. Women have a double burden, because their ingrained deference has a gender dimension as well. But I wasn't talking about the supposed intelligence of Thai people, I was talking about my perceptions of a lot of the men who prefer Thai women.

What I often hear is that Western women are demanding, etc., but what really rankles is that whenever I express an opinon or a fact that men do not like or cannot refute (not necessarily on this site), then I am classified as "masculine". This leads me to conclude that most of the men on sites like this do not want a woman that truly thinks for herself, because if she did she may often contradict much of what he thinks. Add the cultural dynamic of client/patron and female deference, coupled with an education system that does not inculcate or value the concept of critical thought, along with many male comments about women at sites like this, along with my own personal experiences in Thailand as a "thinking" woman, and I am almost certain that intelligence in women is not a highly valued trait here. And this is not only with farang men, but ALL men here.

Am I wrong to think this?

Get a life says:

"Are there really so many wanabee gary glitters out there?-peter"

You certainly know the answer, Peter.

Greg says:

"And this is not only with farang men, but ALL men here. Am I wrong to think this?"

Yes. I am not the only man for whom intelligence is a huge turn on. More important than tits, for me.

Greg says:

Not more important than a nice ass, though.

Isabel II says:

And I also want to add that the majority of men in Asia want younger women by at least 10-20 years. In addition, many of the women that end up marrying farangs are much less educated, and some barely literate. Also, I've found that most of the men who cite "hassle free" relationships, are really talking about a woman that doesn't really question or care about much, except issues that directly impact her interests in a relationship. Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is what I've observed and gleaned from listening to men here, including men on this website.

Does recognizing this trend make me a bigot? If so, then you are very selective about how you classify bigots. I also want to add, that critizing Thai culture does not make me a racist, because it is specific to a national boundary or culture, not a race. And I don't criticize one culture anymore than I do my own, but I do like to have honest discussions. So excoriate me.

Isabel II says:

oh, that's a relief because I have a brain and a nice ass.

Greg says:

Isabelle 2:

I see that you didn't want to follow up on the main point of your post:

"Contrary to what you may have read on this forum or other forums like it, about women needing a father-figure in their lovers/husbands, I want to tell you that is one of the biggest loads of detritus ever to be unleashed by a bunch of over-the- hill, self-serving men."

As I already mentioned, it was an older western woman who first introduced me to the need in her for a father figure. As I was younger and for some personality reasons, she could not see me as one, and that was a problem in our relationship. Occasionally during moments of deep intimacy we role played me being her Dad, and it was always very tender, intimate, and satisfying. As I was 11 years younger than her, and had been dating 2 other very attractive younger girls at the same time as I started dating her and dumped them for her, it would not be fair to say I invented the need for a father figure in women in order to rationalize my lust for pretty young girls.

The exploration of that dynamic was born in role playing with the older woman, who was at that time my fiance. The exploration of that dynamic found further expression through love affairs with some Thai women. They told me that they liked me being their Dad. You have told me that you find the idea revolting. That's fine. But to intimate that you speak for western women is self aggrandizing. The dynamic is beyond notions of equality. It is about harnessing the power of paternal love and harnessing the power of a womans desire to feel taken care of. Both are real, cross cultural, and will never go away.

mr peter says:

Gee this site is like a 'dynamic' mental ward populated by some right weird patients. Has anyone been shagging the dog? in a dynamic fashion of course.-peter

Captain America says:

Well, it took some prurient discussion points to drag in new blood, so i guess I feel like a yellow journalist! My life long aspiration.

My feelings for XX are paternal, well compartmentalized from my physical longings. I want to care for her, protect her, provide for her, see her happy, and greatly enjoy watching her aspire, attain, fail, attempt, etc. I have had moments, enthralled in her arms, when this tiny beauty takes on a rather unobtainable patina (daughter like). I never had children. Have never had paedophilic inclinations, or even desired much younger women. it is a new phenomena. But I have to say, testosterone is a cruel master! I have closed my eyes a few times, and dreamt this was my daughter. Referencing socio-biology once more, this is not an uncommon male thought. I have also known many females, who liked to be spanked (which i abhorred doing!), and dominated. Some were tough as nails, succesful in the real world. The facade of toughness needed an intimate moment to be relaxed.

OK, my intent was to stay on target, to elucidate one humble man's perspective on man girl lust. However, my thoughts have drifted to my beautiful XX, and her final resting place on my ignored member (heck, last night put on an Asian porno in the room, and did not touch the thing. I am ready for her best grinding!). XX loves to end our love making by sitting her little 85 lbs on me, sumo style. She does not have the leg strength to sustain it for more than a couple of minutes, but very obviously this is hher favorite position. She will soak up all of my love, and by combining fluids this is a near oil like state. She squeezes her muscles very hard, grips the last drop in me, falls forward, and the bottom tips of her gorgeous hair are slightly damp from her effort (the only physical effort she makes in a day!). I hold her, throw the comforter back over her, and we stay like that for an hour, sometimes longer if she falls asleep. As a former ablater of rat's ventromedial hypothalamus, I know a thing or three about pushing the bar for stimulii. I would climb any mountain, pay any price, for this feeling with her. I rode 50 miles with my bike group in Austin Sunday morning. A very nice pooying, whom I have known for three years stopped off at my house to take a shower after the ride (hit 98 farenheit here the other day, 38 celcisus?). I monitor my house when i travel with wireless, embedded, webcams. I was bad, as she exited the shower and toweled off in one of the guest rooms, i watched her. Wow. Beautiful legs. Amazing body, she looked lovely wet (I recorded this!). She promptly lies down on the bed, and gives herself a furious rub! Comes out, dressed in shorts, slightly wet t-shirt, hair still wet about 10 minutes later. We share some cereal and a banana. I make banana jokes, knowing what she had been up to! Sonya gives me a little kiss, I feel her breasts against me. She drives home. I had NO desire (nor did she alas!) to fool around with her. I am completely, in love with XX. 100%.

So, while gentic drift is important, and the reason monogomy is not transcendant, NOTHING is better than complete love, respect, admiration, fascination and fidelity to a lady. Or is that, a girl? Or is that, my long lost daughter? She is all three for me, and sometimes the line is thin...

CA In Kalifornia, off to LAX this evening. Hong Kong. Sinha ha, Bangkok! :-)

Greg says:

Finally, I am understood.

I only hope my long lost daughter returns to me. She says I am her soul mate and she can not stop physically missing me. Haven't seen her since Xmas, shortly after which she married her fiance. She's still my daughter, and I'm still her Daddy. It is such a powerful feeling that it is not even role playing - it is factual.

Greg says:

Isabelle 2: My true Daughter is the smartest woman I've ever known. She is more than a peer, she is an inspiration.

David says:

Thanks for the clarification, Isabel II. You're obviously not a bigot and, regarding the right way to explore Thai/farang cultural differences, it seems that we both draw the line in roughly the same place.

Niall says:

Well unlikely that I will ever be mistaken for a sensitive new age type but to make it clear I DO NOT WANT A WOMAN WITH A BRAIN I WANT A STUPID WOMAN.

The trouble with women and intelligence is that women do not live in the real world they live in a world their head creates which is driven primarily by emotion. Logic is completely subservient to emotion. Essentially if a woman feels it then she believes it. This is dangerous enough in a stupid woman but add intelligence in to the mix and you've got a real problem.

Woman have taken over western society and will end it, I truely believe this. Anything 'nasty' but necessary like for example fossil fuels will be eventually banned we will stop producing anything and entropy will ensue. Meanwhile the patriacal societies will outbreed and outproduce us and frankly we will deserve it for losing control of our women.

Greg says:

Niall, I love your social commentary.

However I feel it is incomplete.

I agree that women have a harder time making the transition from a pre-rational emotive based sense of self to a rational logical rule based sense of self, however women are capable of that transition.

There are plenty of pre-rational men, and studies have shown that they outnumber rational men.

After many years of forum communications, I've learned that discussion with some people is useless - the Bush heads know when they are right, and don't want to be confused with facts.

Niall says:

Yeah but we men call such men idiots and we make them work at McDonalds.

The Feminazi society in which we now live calls such female idiots 'intuitive' and they get employed as HR directors where they employ other idiots who are like them.

Greg says:

Sadly, I agree to the insight in your post.

Even more sadly, look to the university culture of 5 years ago. Is it still the same? Notions of the superiority of the female psyche dominated. Most folks lap up what they learn from their heros, and most folks stop learning radical ideas at a young age. How long will it take for post feminism to enter the mainstream? Hell, even feminism hasn't reached the main stream. Feminism is an extremely valuable step in human consciousness.

Isabel II says:

"Well unlikely that I will ever be mistaken for a sensitive new age type but to make it clear I DO NOT WANT A WOMAN WITH A BRAIN I WANT A STUPID WOMAN."

Well, at least the man is honest. I do value honesty.

Greg: As I was reading your recent posts, I was trying really hard to reserve judgement, and then Captain America posts. And he talks about his friend that uses his shower, and he watches her without her knowledge on her webcam. And then you claim you are finally understood.

You know, for awhile I was starting to go along with both of your explanations about the father/daughter thing,, but the webcam voyeruism without a woman's permission is not respectable behavior. You trampled her boundaries and betrayed her trust, and you don't see a problem with that? Maybe I am outnumbered by the male choromosones here, but this really grosses me out.

"Feminist issues of equality have way overstretched the bounds of what being equal means to include being the same. We aren't the same - men and women are very different."

Believe it or not, I don't have a problem with that statement. I totally agree. But I think the "problem" occurs when women start showing differences that don't necessarily meet the approval of all men all the time. You need confidence to disagree, and my hunch is that many children in this role don't have that confidence yet, except that which is shaped by their parents. And yes, women want to be protected by men, but that protection is very different than what I get from a parent. My father protected me as a dependent little girl, not as a woman. This is not to say that people cannot be childlike and adult at the same time, but the idea of sexy and father is just a non-starter for me.

Greg I hear what you say about "some women like it" etc., and that you first formed this sexual interest with an older woman. I don't think it's "sick" or whatever between adults, because who am I to interfere with the sexual needs of adults who are not hurting anyone. Life is complicated enough.

But I resent you calling me "self-aggrandizing", because if that's the case you're going to have to extend that to almost everyone who posts here regarding their comments about male preferences and foreign women.

Whatever rings your bell. Maybe I have fucked up wiring around this as well, but in the opposite direction. I attract a lot of men in their early twenties (I'm in my thirties), and most of my major relationships have been with men younger than myself. In retrospect I realize that this could be because of this whole father thing that I think some older men may have, which makes me absolutely bolt as soon as I sense it.

I'm sorry, but the webcam spying on an unsuspecting woman is disgusting. It's different if there is agreement or awareness, but if not it is very creepy.

But just my satang's worth.

Too drunk to know better Greg says:

Regarding some the ongoing development of feminism:

In a true and just world, I would be able to fly and nobody else would. Unfortunately, my petitions to god have not adjusted the relationship of mutually measurable data to what we all know is the way things should be.

Isabel II says:

I have to stop this habit of forgetting to sign my name.

Captain America says:

Niall,

Wise man. there has never been, at least not persistant, a matriarchal dominant society. Testosterone produces wild swings in intellectual betas for us males, and society is moved forward. Women are consumers, men are producers. nice synergy. Men want sex, women have a valuable commodity that buys security, and acts as a brake on some of the more destructive components of our physiology. No great mystery, repeated gender roles in most primates.

Problems arise for a few reason:

1) Women will twitter on about nothing for hours, and are the most outrageously jealous of the genders (towards each other). They are near completely incapable of perceiving something of value in another female, and not coveting it.

2) men really hate to be bothered after sex. Women generally are at their most guile-like afterwards. hence, prostitution.

3) Women spend more time worrying about externalities. men are not afraid of these things, and see danger as opportunity.

Few other things I am too late this morning to think of...

Destination LOS. T minus 480 and counting!

Greg says:

Hello dear Is2 (I'm drinking and so am more loving and less respectful of boundaries)

" but the webcam voyeruism without a woman's permission is not respectable behavior."

CA talked about that, not me. I also would not be comfortable to do such a thing. I respect your respect for boundaries. I applaud you for such respect.

"Believe it or not, I don't have a problem with that statement. I totally agree. But I think the "problem" occurs when women start showing differences that don't necessarily meet the approval of all men all the time. You need confidence to disagree, and my hunch is that many children in this role don't have that confidence yet, except that which is shaped by their parents. And yes, women want to be protected by men, but that protection is very different than what I get from a parent. My father protected me as a dependent little girl, not as a woman. This is not to say that people cannot be childlike and adult at the same time, but the idea of sexy and father is just a non-starter for me."

I am not understanding what you mean to say in this paragraph. Can you try to summate it? I understand that a child has not yet differentiated her opinions from that of her parents. An adult can. Please don't mistake the adult/father adult/daughter sexual relationship to be one of indiferentiation.

" the idea of sexy and father is just a non-starter for me."

That's fine. A lover as an equal peer is at least as sexy as a lover as a daughter. I'm reminded of architecture. Some rooms evoke a sense of grandeur. Some rooms evoke a sense of cozyness. Or music. Some music is jazz. Some is sweet lazy rest. My main point is not that the father daughter relationship is the epitome of human intimacy between lovers, it is that intimacy has many valid faces.

"But I resent you calling me "self-aggrandizing", because if that's the case you're going to have to extend that to almost everyone who posts here regarding their comments about male preferences and foreign women."

Fair enough, I will.

Regarding attracting younger men, I'm curious to know more. In my youth, I was exclusively attracted to older women.

Isabel II says:

" Hello dear Is2 (I'm drinking and so am more loving and less respectful of boundaries)"

What are you drinking?

'Believe it or not, I don't have a problem with that statement. I totally agree. But I think the "problem" occurs when women start showing differences that don't necessarily meet the approval of all men all the time. You need confidence to disagree, and my hunch is that many children in this role don't have that confidence yet, except that which is shaped by their parents. And yes, women want to be protected by men, but that protection is very different than what I get from a parent. My father protected me as a dependent little girl, not as a woman. This is not to say that people cannot be childlike and adult at the same time, but the idea of sexy and father is just a non-starter for me.'

" I am not understanding what you mean to say in this paragraph. Can you try to summate it? I understand that a child has not yet differentiated her opinions from that of her parents. An adult can. Please don't mistake the adult/father adult/daughter sexual relationship to be one of indiferentiation."

I'm not sure what I mean there. Let me see: I think what I'm trying to say is that although I can be childish and girlish, and my man can be boyish, he is never a father to my girlishness but either an admirerer or a friend. And when he is dominant, it is not fatherly but manly. I guess that's what I mean.

Captin America:

"Women will twitter on about nothing for hours, and are the most outrageously jealous of the genders (towards each other). They are near completely incapable of perceiving something of value in another female, and not coveting it."

That is so completely untrue, and easy to verify as untruth. Any women's studies website, university, feminist, artist, writer, intellectual, et al can easily verify that this is wrong. I think many catty, immature, unintelligent, and soap opera addled women and katoeys may adopt this kind of drag persona of a bitchy, shallow woman, but not most of the women I know. Completely wrong, and this is even verifiable on mainstream television these days. And also, I've had to pry a couple of my former boyfriends off other men but never vice versa.

I also spent a year as a documentary photographer photographing women that worked in a strip bar as part of an assignment for a year and count that as some of my best work ever, and it all features beautiful, complicated creatures. I'm not only not jealous, but spent hundreds of dollars photographing them and framing my photographs which I promptly hung on my wall as an ode to the faceted, gorgeous aspects of female sexuality, so put that in your myopic pipe and smoke it.

Greg: the younger male thing - yeah, sometimes I think I am the female juxtaposition to most of the men on this site. Most of you want hot, very young Thai babes, where thoughts are not a priority, and I attract younger men who want a thinking, sexy older woman that they can dominate. In a way it is a strange commentary on the so-called dynamics between western women and men (assuming there are any worth commenting on).

Who knows, maybe we're all avoiding intimacy. Or maybe we're just two parts of the same crowd that want to be laid properly, I don't fucking know.

But I have to leave now because the internet place is kicking me out.

Bye ......

Isabel II says:

"And also, I've had to pry a couple of my former boyfriends off other men but never vice versa."

I am referring to fistfights and brawls with other men, not prying off other men in general. Geez, what a funny oversight.

really am leaving now.

Cog says:

^LOL! Brilliant!

Greg says:

Hi TK,

I'm involved in neither voyerism nor masturbation about sex with my offspring, for whatever that means to you.

I read the amazon reviews for that book when you mentioned it, and it still seems irrelevent to my life. I doubt it would affect my high sex drive in the least, and I feel comfortable that my heart and spirit remains capable of meaningful love. Whatever that's worth to you.

Greg says:

Simple rule of thumb TK. If boundaries are not being violated, then the sex is not pathological.

Nothing pathological about crossing wires. Anal sex is not pathological. Elvis Presley's music is not pathological. The only thing pathological pointed to in your discussions is your fear of sex.

Frequent sex is not pathological. Sex with multiple partners is not pathological. Role playing is not pathological.

Sex is only pathological if boundaries are being violated.

Sex is good. It is good mixed with anything. Rubber. Women's shoes. Domination games. Anything. Wonderful good stuff.

TANAI KWAI says:

Okie-dokie.

(...)

Greg says:

Regarding graphic sexual descriptions without the use of irony, two thoughts popped up.

1) Irony is a useful tools to subvert common sense.

Irony: a refined species of ridicule, which, under the mask of honest simplicity or ignorance, exposes the faults and errors of others, by seeming to adopt or defend them. With irony, you pretend to take one viewpoint, and in explaining why you agree, it becomes apparent that the viewpoint is nonsensical. Irony can also be used nonsensically, to never really take a stand. A person can hide behind irony, becoming invisible. Humor in general can be used this way. "I didn't mean it, I was just kidding"

Irony has a place, but if overused can lead to insincerity.

2) There is no need for irony when discussing beauty. A wet pussy is a beautiful object of love. Graphic description in this case is not objectifying something into an other, it is sharing the awe of appreciation. Is a graphic depiction of the sunset in need of irony?

Greg says:

Thanks for the perfect example of overuse of irony, TK. Oky doky.

Delving into the issue without irony would be more meaningful.

TANAI KWAI says:

Greg,

Yes, I am afraid of sex. Especially toilet-straddling incest with the smell of poo wafting in the air. Must be my pathology acting up again.

Yes, I am hiding behind irony. I cannot wade through a series of posts waxing on endlessly about the luxurious wet suction of a velvety vagina and the manly enjoyment of "young ass" without cracking a joke. I should have paid more attention in my men's studies seminar. And I'll need to revisit Apsara Jet straight away.

I am fearful of meaningful conversation, Greg. You know that about me by now. Just a harmless crank. Pay no attention. Carry on. As you were.

(...)

Greg says:

It's frustrating to have pot shots aimed my way and then have the sender become invisible.

One of the main benefits of written conversation is the clarity allowed to follow through on issues. If you choose to only discredit without taking a stand on your own position and talking about that directly, well, it seems unfair. Hit and run.

TANAI KWAI says:

I'll tell you what's frustrating -- to make an offhand remark and to have it dissected like a frog. I try to do others the courtesy of providing a bit of a spark or some humor when they read these godforsaken posts. Sometimes scrupulous accuracy and civility must take a quick back seat in these cases.

I wasn't taking any notable potshots at you, and I never accused you of the things you defend yourself against. Never thought, for example, that you were crossing boundaries... just drawing folks out.

Finally, I just didn't want to grasp the nettle and talk the merits of sexplay involving domination and women's shoes. It's soooo late here.

Hope to pick it up at another time.

(...)

Greg says:

You keep recommending a book about sex addiction to me.

That is more than an invitation to expand my knowledge, is it not? I see you as pathologizing my sexual life, and that demeans what to me is very important.

TANAI KWAI says:

If you revisit our previous conversation about this, I merely suggest that it would be an area of psychology you might find interesting. You are always talking about how Thais have a dearth of curiosity and you have oodles of it so I didn't think this would be perceived as an affront. If either one of us is a sex addict please allow me to take on the mantle if that helps us work past this little misunderstanding. Color me pathologized.

My recent reference to the book was intended to be referential to our previous discussion. Sometimes it is fun to tie things together. Voyeurism and incest really are steps on Carnes' continuum. Both topics were alluded to in this thread. That's all.

If anything, these are just glancing potshots.

(just fucking around... sheesh)

Isabel II says:

Tanai Kwai:

what's your pathology, that you don't feel alive unless you're savagely putting someone down? Are you the anti-western woman gestapo, ready to pounce as soon as one appears that doesn't fit the elementary stereo-types that you spew? You don't feel quite comfortable unless you're sure that we're all in our rightful place, do you? Otherwise, what would you say? Nevermind, we've already heard what you talk about when you're not hate-mongering, and it isn't much. You can't even pick the right fucking stocks.

I'm glad to see that you harbor a smug nostalgia for jingoism - I guess your privileged family served you well by sending you to rarefied places like Andover. Now you can shroud your narrow-minded tirades in the guise of saying something important. And all of your little imaginary friends, dazzled by your brilliance, hang back in the shadows until you give them the cue to emerge, right Cog?

I don't know why you think that I deserve your wrath, except that I post here, or exist. Or you just think it's much more fun to hate. But I'm really tired of your inability to see past yourself, I mean, really tired. Can't you keep track of your neuroses, Tanai Kwai, or do you also need a woman to do that for you as well?

Your words:

"Another thing I feel compelled to mention is that many of your arguments seem to hinge on your own physical beauty and allure -- even to men in their "early 20's." This is such a frequent rejoinder we all know it by heart, and wonder how someone so devoted to posting also finds time for the fanatical workout schedule, rigorous diet and extravagant regimen of Italian mud bath treatments and sheep placenta facials necessary to hold your own against budding young Thai porn starlets. "

First of all, I don't make frequent references to my alleged physical allure. I was simply making comments about myself in the context of a dialogue about older/younger relationships. I mean, what exactly is your problem, that I have a brain, or a nice ass? Geez Louise. And Thelma, for that matter.

There are also plenty of people on this site that make references to their personal and physical statistics, but none as frequent as yourself:

More of your words:

Let's see: you are an Ivy-league grad, you go to the gym 5 times a week, You are Mexican, Portugese, and Spanish on your mother's side, Eastern European from your father's side, who's Jewish BTW, by implication tall, dark, and handsome, just finished up or are on the verge of finishing up a book project, a busy professional ... in other words, you are every woman's dream, right Tanai Kwai? Then why do YOU spend so much time on this site?

And for the record, I do cannot compare myself to a teenage or twenty-something Thai bargirl or underage porn starlet, nor did I ever want to, even when I could. And although I attract young, twenty-something year old guys, most of whom think I am the same age until I tell them, I do not slave away at the gym, like you. I don't fanatically diet, and have only occassionally frequented a spa. So hate me.

You again:

"But riddle me this... what happens when you hit a wall and those Brad Pitt circa "Thelma and Louise" types stop calling? Will you have lost your standing to speak your truth?"

TK, why would I ever deign that you want to know the truth?

middle-finger winky,

Isabel II

mr peter says:

TK has just been verbally raped oh no!. It looks like Isabell mark two has been dragged down to the depths with this tirade of personal abuse. I liked her more when she was telling us how big her brain is. I think greg and isabel should go out on a date together, they could spend all night trying to impress each other with their brains, then greg could tie her up and dynamically fuck hers out -peter

Isabel II says:

Mr Peter:

I never told anyone how "big" my brain was, just that I had one. And you keep mentioning bondage, do you need tying up, sweetie?

And BTW:

"And for the record, I do cannot compare myself to a teenage or twenty-something Thai bargirl or underage porn starlet"

should read: I DO NOT or cannot compare myself to a Thai bargirl, etc. ....

because I can't, but I can learn to edit a bit better.

John U says:

ISABELL II,

^ Love it.

You made me break into a full grin. :<))

The toothy one.

Fucking great. Keep them coming.

Isabel II says:

John U, I've been meaning to tell you - you're a real cutie. Thanks.

Greg says:

TK, so your point is, when you say something, I shouldn't really take you seriously. Regardless if your comment seems to actually say something, I should assume it does not. Otherwise I'm being a tight ass with no sense of humor.

Is that about it?

TANAI KWAI says:

Isabel and Greg,

I concur that a love match is afoot.* I'll get back to you both after I mine a little salt this morning.

(...)

*Sounds a bit like I'm professing a foot fetish but that's not what I mean.

Cog says:

"And all of your little imaginary friends, dazzled by your brilliance, hang back in the shadows until you give them the cue to emerge, right Cog?"

Hey now!
I have you know that just because my head is shoved up Khun TK's ass doesn't mean I hunker down behind his shadow.
Long live Khun TK!

(Was I on cue?)

TANAI KWAI says:

Hah!

To paraphrase Khun Jah Rule: You're not always there when you call, but you're always on time.

(I think if I only had one screen I would actually be more productive. Then I wouldn't refresh this motherfucker so often.)

(...)

TANAI KWAI says:

Sorry -- "You're not always there when *I* call..."

Oh, nevermind.

(...)

Isabel II says:

Well, at least I like your musical taste, so it's not all bad I guess.

Greg says:

You're not always there when you call is more evocative.

TANAI KWAI says:

"TK, so your point is, when you say something, I shouldn't really take you seriously... Otherwise I'm being a tight ass with no sense of humor."

Greg, I felt my explanation was more than adequate, and that you have mischaracterized it as yet another flip response I would use to render myself invisible. That said, I think the consensus is that you have a tendency to be a tight ass about some things, but that's not the thrust of my response.

(...)

mr peter says:

Well I'm a bit disappointed by TK's response here I was expecting him to give them a pasting.
Much as I hate cut and paster merchants I could not resist this one about the make up of posters what I saw on anuvver site:

FALLACIES AND PSYCHOLOGICAL DEFENSIVENESS

When a person has an ego investment in a point of view or personal feelings, improper reasoning (fallacies) may be used as a rescue.
Fallacies are used to persuade emotionally or psychologically, not rationally.
Fallacies can be used as intimidation, diversion or as an attack.

AD HOMINEM:
attacking opponent personally; belittle opponent

STRAW MAN:
misrepresenting what other says to make idea seem unacceptable

CIRCULAR REASONING
using the premise of argument to prove the argument-assuming truth of what is intended to be proved

TWO-WRONGS
defending a particular wrongdoing by looking for a wrong doing previously overlooked.
(e.g. I cut him off because he cut me off)

SLIPPERY SLOPE
objecting to something because of a wrong assumption that the thing will lead to other undesirable consequences. (Objecting to marijuana on the grounds it will lead to addiction to other drugs and a life of crime)

APPEALING TO AUTHORITY
Appeals to majority, traditional wisdom, or authorities that disagree are problematic.

GUILT BY ASSOCIATION
The guilt of the discredited individual is transferred to the opponent.

RED HERRING
A controversial claim defended by taking the offensive. The defence involves setting up a new issue that is more supportable. Attention is deflected.

Any to add? apart from cut and paste man, don't know why I posted this maybe I just wanted to look as clever as the big people by posting a lot of words completely off topic-peter

TANAI KWAI says:

I2 asks,

"what's your pathology, that you don't feel alive unless you're savagely putting someone down?"

Honestly, the majority of the time my heart rate doesn't increase or decrease regardless of what I write or read here. My heart is hard and brittle and my skin mottled and toughened from a life of hard work and morality.

"Are you the anti-western woman gestapo, ready to pounce as soon as one appears that doesn't fit the elementary stereo-types that you spew?"

I was actually stereotyping the base man who would stereotype you. As I have confessed here in the past, I am a charter member of FWLA - Farang Women Lovers Anonymous. In fact, there are women from every background I would love to love. The point I have made to you in the past, which David has most recently made in today's piece, is that OF COURSE there are perfectly lovely farang women. There is just something highly amusing about watching a certain type of bitchy, corpulent farang woman -- used to being treated like a queen by hard-up, sex-starved men in Phoenix or Dublin or Ontario or Stockholm -- receive her comeuppance in LOS. Doesn't make the men laughing at her any less fat or any more desirable themselves. It just is what it is.

"Nevermind, we've already heard what you talk about when you're not hate-mongering, and it isn't much."

We have? Yikes.

"You can't even pick the right fucking stocks."

Please don't ever piggyback on that guy's comments. His reading comprehension is so poor as to suggest a physiological issue. I never picked the stock he is rambling on about; rather I said exactly the opposite -- that I do NOT own any highly publicized stocks that match the description of Krispy Kreme. Indeed, I went on to say that I do not pick any of my stocks -- my broker does, as he is far wiser and more experienced. (He put me in two things yesterday he calculates are worth $50 dollars if anyone is in the market: YUKOY and CKEC.) I will do my utmost to avoid any more commentary of this nature in the future.

"I'm glad to see that you harbor a smug nostalgia for jingoism - I guess your privileged family served you well by sending you to rarefied places like Andover."

As a fellow Hispanian, I am really not what you think. Really.

"And all of your little imaginary friends..."

Cog is not me. Really. As I recall, he is a young man in his twenties who is half-Thai and half-Farang. I think he has talent, don't you?

"First of all, I don't make frequent references to my alleged physical allure."

Okay. By the way, I don't disbelieve you are alluring -- partially because I perceived that you had repeated it several times, which gave me the impression that you were coming from a place of real conviction. As you know (and suggest yourself) the internet, like radio, tends to be a haven for the crypto-fugly. So some skepticism is warranted.

"There are also plenty of people on this site that make references to their personal and physical statistics, but none as frequent as yourself."

Like you, I do not perceive that I do this frequently. In the handful of posts I have contributed here at Mango Sauce I recall doing this only twice -- each time in response to a specific request, once from Rita and once from Cog.

"by implication tall, dark, and handsome..."

In response to Rita I volunteered that I am a mere 5'9". This led Chopper Harris to pronounce me a "dwarf."

"... in other words, you are every woman's dream, right Tanai Kwai?"

Hardly. But I am the dream of certain women. As you are the dream of certain men.

"Then why do YOU spend so much time on this site?"

I dunno. I seem to enjoy it. Man does not live by two careers, a hideously complicated love life, and five hours of weekly exercise alone.

By the way, don't be too disappointed in John U. when he turns on you without warning or provocation -- it's in his nature and part of his charm.

(...)

TANAI KWAI says:

Mr. Peter,

Enjoyed that little exegesis very much. For my part, I do what I can to avoid these hobgoblins of the small-minded.

(...)

Isabel II says:

ok, cheers, fellow Hispanian. And who doesn't turn on each other at this site? We are like a bunch of roving head-hunters with spears.

Speaking of which, it appears that Mr. Peter's was lobbed off sometime ago and re-positioned with some cut-and-paste nonsense.

Are you feeling alright out there, Mr. P?

Isabel II says:

His head, Mr. Peter's HEAD, seems like it was lobbed off, nothing more.

I'm going to sleep now.

mr peter says:

That's more like it TK, give the buggers a taste of their own medicene.
Isabel has done her hit and run off again trick, often she says it's forever, but it seems she just cannot do without us now. She's not really going to sleep, sent me an email and wants to meet up for a bondage session. I agreed as long as she could give me a good spanking as well. Isabel seems to have a bit of a thing about brains and heads, still with us it's tits and arses. I hope she's got one of those strap on thingies-peter

Gimpy1 says:

Isabell II,

I'm glad to see that you also think that Tania is pathetic. She has to post a response to every little comment. Just give a quick count of the last 12 or so posts. Tania was responsible for almost 50% of them. What I find really pathetic is the constant use of song lyrics and quotes from various sources. Just in the past few days, we've had Scooby Doo's trademark phrase, a perfume commercial sang to us, and also Toby Keith lyrics sang to us. I think I saw a few others in her endless posts, but I really don't have the interest to track them all down.

Captain America says:

Eight hours or so in HK, then the short hop to Bangkok!

My what trite discussions have transpired since I left the relative fallopian safety of an America beseiged by terrorist POLITICIANS!

So far, my travels have been wonderful. thanks to Cathay, they made my first ever first class cartage on an International flight memorable. it will be hard to slum in biz class after this. hell, even T-Mobile has done me well...they swore my phone would work on my last two International flights. it did not. it does in HK this morning! 'Tis the little things, and the little ladies apparently that make this American gush. Puns obvious accepted and dissected.

My little lady has sent me a number of e-mails, and we chatted yesterday. I told her that I had upset everyone on the board by inadvertantly peering too long at my nude cycling buddy! (Joking. Talok!) She would shoot me.

Isabella, you make some good arguments, stand on rightful indignation like it was bedrock, and suffer the same piteous hypocricy your entire gender has codified for millenia. I honestly have no desire to engage in further discussion with you, and suspect it is mutual. Greg? Your nervous breakdown would only be facilitated with isabella ensconced in your daddy-esque arms! Run away!

I have refrained from any manual manipulations the past two weeks, and expect to have one helluva marathon this evening! Her Mom is still in the apartment, so if she cares to grab me or watch me in action this time my answer is what the hey! It ain't cheating if little XX is there!

So, marriage. Dear me. This is sort of for real, and trepidation is my middle name now. Not fear of her cheating, having thai boyfriends, gambling, drugs, murdering me, or the other sordid, assorted, myriad pitfalls everyone in thailand seems to love to boast about! Rather Monty Python if you ask me. No, I miss my ex. I still can't believe she cheated on me. I love my thai lolita, but my ex was a full package. Many farang women are gorgeous. Last weekend in Austin reminded me of that. The prior week in NYC as well.

I would like to post a picture of us, or at least of her in this forum. Not sure that is smart, but then again if I was "smart" I would still be doing the same job I was doing 20 years ago, would have married my first girlfriend, and would wax on eloquently about isabella's inane postings in a vane attempt to win her favour(s). sic.

Choke dii khrap to those of you who have moved past the pussy, to the heart of one of these wonderful girls. I didn't need to create a fucking docudrama about it either, but I appreciate David providing an outlet for my thoughts, concerns, and most importantly...JOY.

CA Away

seanie says:

My first trip, I met in person a girl I met on on a thai singles site.

She tells me she is a a school girl (I don't know exactly for sure; some things are not adding up).. whos in her last year of university took me around BKK for 1 week when I was there...

I asked her what she wanted todo when she graduates:

"Make Man Happy!"

Now, how many ice princesses would say something like that? I told my X and she just laughed.. the reason immigration in the west don't allow TGF in is farang women would slowly become endangered species!

Good look CA; I am returning to LOS in October.. for 2 weeks of relaxation.. even sitting on au bon pain watching and falling in love every 10 minutes is better than watching the fat chicks here...

Seanie

Captain America says:

Seanie,

Thanks my friend! Your week odyssey has me smiling, as I have yet to meet a Thai lady, parent, or person where anything adds up!

Last month, right after i bought cutie her condo, her parents visited in Bangkok. I only got to see her for four days, since she was too lazy to find out if the Japanese also made pooying travel verbotin! Anyway, the week I left it appeared that her mom and or dad made almost daily train trips back and forth. nothing she wrote or said made any sense at all. This is not the type of stuff one lies about, so I chalked it up to complete inability to plan amongst the indigienous Isaanners. They crack me up. I swear, today is the only day for many of them. I am not criticising mind you! In many ways, they live heaven on Earth.

Had a lot of time, so i read through the thick torrent of e-mails I have drowned this poor waif in for 4-5 months! Sickening. A farang kwaii in love. A retard (mentally challenged for the chicks and libs reading this) could walk me around on a string nanometers thick! Shit. Damn it. And piss me down a stinky stall, but WHY do we men fall so hard? Biochemistry pisses me off! Of course, I prefer our innocent protestations to the manipulative little darlings who know the price of the muff monster, the allure, the many rats who will press the bar till exhausted to pluck the dusky jewels.

But, as ever i ramble, ramble. Part of me is happy to be here, part of me screams "run away," the logical side of me knows nothing will ever be this exciting again. My first love, with a bar girl from isaan, her family, her friends, the lattice-like webs that they have woven. The black widow cometh for me, and I actually like being immobile while I wait.

'Tis the end of the world as I know it...'

TANAI KWAI says:

"No, I miss my ex. I still can't believe she cheated on me. I love my thai lolita, but my ex was a full package. Many farang women are gorgeous. Last weekend in Austin reminded me of that. The prior week in NYC as well."

If only things were easy up in this bitch.

It's a complex kind of mental gymnastics but just remember that her not being the "full package" can be a positive attribute, depending on your mindset. For Greg, for you, for many of us, it may be unsettling to be in a relationship with such a woman for a variety of reasons. I think for Greg, it is a matter of being stymied by certain intellectual limitations, and the resulting boredom and hollowness that can ensue. For me, there is some of this, but also I feel the weight of the tedious bourgeois expectations foisted upon me by my culture, especially as I compare my choices in women with those of my colleagues.

On my first trip to LOS I met a smart, seasoned American businessman who had gone fully native with a Thai wife, children and deep involvement in the nightlife scene. I was struck by one of the first things he ever said to me: "I never thought I would marry an uneducated woman but..." He stopped short, perceiving that as a newcomer I could not possibly understand; that perhaps I might look down on him, coming from my square, socially judgmental, "professional" environment of the U.S. as I did. Though he is a very confident person and loves to name the innumerable ways non-expat Americans are suckers, I still felt that he was trying to justify himself in this respect, perhaps only semiconsciously.

Tonight I heard a conservative talk show host, Tony Snow, do a lengthy segment on how marital infidelity is being facilitated by internet chatting. A few people called in and said how important fidelity is to them. A couple said that the highlight of their day is to come home and sit on the porch with their spouse for a few minutes, just talking. One lady said she had engaged in this ritual with her husband for 39 years. A man called up and said that his marriage had been marred by infidelity for 10 years, but then was salvaged, in part by this simple practice of porch talk.

I wonder if that is the highlight of my expat friend's day? I wonder if we should be aspiring to relationships where that simple pleasure is the highlight of our day.

(...)

Captain America says:

TK,

used to sit on the patio with a new bottle of red every Friday night with my ex, leastwise for many of the good years. I babbled about work, the cats ventured "outside" to sit on our laps, hummingbirds came right up to our noses. Sublime. Simple. I miss it. Can I replicate that with a young women who was sent by her poor family to fuck men for a couple of baht?

Often, have mentioned to wee XX that the simple things are the best. She knows it instinctively though! chiding me to visit my ailing mother, sitting with her at the amari in Phuket, as the locals braided her hair. I held her hand, watched the boats, and was equally as enthralled as when the ex and I discovered a soon to be discovered Sonoma cab. Mayhap the truths in life are not explained by plasma screens, friends that remind me of the haglike fish that feed on the gills of tiger sharks, or in fidelity?

I know I will be faithful to this girl, because I love her. I do want to have sex with other women, and for some macabre reason occasionally have an opportunity! i want her to be faithful to me, it is an expression of love, trust. And you know, when parents die we all need someone on this spinning globe to hang on to when it begins to careen in eccentric orbits. I need her now. She needs me. DEEP attachments can form in such circumstances. it was love at first site for me. Second time in my life. In a week, I will be marrying the second women in my life I fell instantly in love with. This one has a checkered past. I cried last night, same fat German with a small dick and a huge belly had paid her 1000 baht short time. Wonder how many times i will live this nightmare? Will the dream stay, and the pain subside?

I am getting on to CX751 in a few hours, and had actually thought about turning around. Or staying in Hong Kong for a week, then going home. I do not understand thailand, and in many ways am intimidated by it. I am not to the manor born, but my children will be in the United States. nothing there scares me. Back to Neitzsche, and that fucking abyss quote.

JDMAN, how is it going my friend?

Greg, would love to meet you for a pint. I will post up a meeting spot, or even better will create a web account to share info. We articulate Nabakovs need to stick together! :-)

Damn, I am scared shitless. Onward, albeit timidly...

Dana says:

It's like watching a train wreck. All my sympathy is of no value. No vibes will get through. It's an Essan black hole sucking us all in. One of the biggest losses of my life was the emotional realization that the farang-thai dream was probably not worth pursuing. If I buy a lottery ticket at odds of 40,000,000 to one at least I have a chance. Not in the love game in Thailand. So watching this is hypnotic. A painful trip down memory lane. I wish everyone good luck.

Captain America says:

Dana, what is "success in love?" Endless years together, supporting, loving, commiting? That is rare in same culture marriages. Still, I would gladly try it.

In my anecdotally derived ratios on the success of different culture relationships, I think the rate of success is higher. Both parties go in already predisposed to discuss differences, something that afflicts any marriage of different sex partners!

Take you smarmy negativism, and stick it where your past lies. In smelly grey shrapnel, festering on the atrophied mound of a piteous life.

I have CONFUCKINCERNS. Like I did when I married my farang wife. Like I did when i broke off my engagement to my college sweetheart, like many men and women have before tying the knot on beautiful marriages.

I am not afraid of loss of sex partners (fucking a new lady every week is fun, but ultimately completely unsatisfying. it is the province of cowards, and those incapable of intimacy), I am not afraid of her cheating, I am afraid of the responsibility of keeping or assiting another human in their quest for happiness. if your a decent human, this is why you get married. it is not all take with me, matter of fact i take very little. I do find her past has been harder to jettison than i would have thought. My friend, who brought me here just rationalized it well for me though...I still have slept with more woman than she has men! Although, if we matched up as 20 year olds she would win.

Dana, no ill towards you. I think your a jocular sort who enjoys poking fun via the facade of a cocksucking curmudgeon. Of course, if this IS really you...

CA Off In one hour. She just told me, via phone that I should bring her a handsome poochai back from Hong Kong. Maybe I should turn around? :-)

TANAI KWAI says:

Dana,

He already knows.

I wish him luck as well.

(...)

Combover says:

Other than the obvious societal taboos over incest, this shows that there are good practical reasons not to get involved.

Excuse me if I shudder.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004360349,00.html

Jonny says:

Well, I just stood back for a while and enjoyed the "progress" (read: downward spiral) things took. I figured things would go down the shitter. And, gee, lookie here, guess like I was right.

Oh, well, all is not lost. Surely there are some lower class girls in even less developed countries you can toss all that loot at.

Good luck.

Feel free to retract all the nasty comments tossed at me. Anyway, I was just teasing about nearly all of it. Life is hard, dontcha know?

Captain America says:

7:12 am, Bangkok. Oh what a night, her is a note I just sent to a lady who quite likes me in San Antonio:

Dear Karen,

It is 6:45 am, and the sounds of Bangkok are everywhere. xx is sleeping. Last night, she met me at the airport. Just her. It was nice. We had dinner with her Mom and friends, awesome grilled octopus, prawns, crab, and a great mollusk thingy called hoy. Simple. We sat on the floor.

Finally, her Mom got the hint and went to stay at xxi's friend's house. Just us. I looked at your photo, and then re-initiated the slow, but wondrous process of helping this innocent girl find her erogenous zones! We covered much ground, and it turns out these things are quite innate! :-) The sexual fantasy has not worn off, but the feelings are much more one of love. Closeness. She shared some background on her father, who sounds like quite the rouge. I am not surprised. The mother gave my appendages a little pull again last night, post shower. She pronounced them, after quite a rub down, "big." Hey, one must abide these traditions. Sadly, being a ptitiful, faithful male...I was enjoying it! Told XX later. She laughed, second time Mom has done this, said mother always complained "can't feel father too good!" What a country!

XX's family is very poor right now, the village has been helping them after her father could no longer be a welder/engineer. He had shoulder surgery a few months back.

The DVD player I gave her blew up when plugged in! She loves her newiPOD, figured it out before I could show her! Dang, I always swore I would not fall in love with a smart woman again!

So, how come I dream we are at the Driskill Grill. Nice bottle of '95 Silver Oak. Holding hands. You have on a beautiful dress, and of course with your beauty it looks stunning! We hold hands. It is late November. 50 degrees. Drive home. Start a fire. I rub and kiss your shoulders. We kiss. LONG kiss. I unzip your dress, rub down to your small of the back...

Hope you are well. I am LOST! In a great way. Horizons, preconceptions, expectations morph and grow daily. It is wonderful.

XXXXX

Captain America says:

Jonny,

You miserable reprobate! Living like a saprophyte, on the hoped for misery of others.

SORRY JONNY, but my trepidations are now certainty. I see my unborn children, and years of pleasure in her eyes and arms.

Her best friend is getting married to a Brit! She has known him 2 years, and is only 20. She is the one who brought the whole group here. She is telling them all to marry in London or America. I am very, very, very happy.

CA At Peace...

TANAI KWAI says:

I'm so pleased we're handing out passes around here so freely these days. I finally feel safe enough to give voice to so many things I had feared to share with you all before...

So fuck off, Jonny, you hateful, sad little man, KING of schadenfreude that you are! You are an empty and thus noisy vessel and cheap insults are your refuge. You probably aren't even a professional of any kind.

Stay tuned! Many more intimate details of my life and loves to come!

"There you are
Lookin' just the same as you did,
Last time I touched you
And, here I am
Close to gettin' tangled up
Inside the thought of you

Do you love him
as much as I love her?
And will that love be strong
When old feelings start to stir?

Looks like we made it
Left each other on the way,
To another love
Looks like we made it
Or I thought so, till today
Until you were there everywhere
And all I could taste was love
the way we made it"

"Looks Like We Made It " by Mr. Barry Manilow

(...)

Captain America says:

Typing from Hong Kong, we spent a few days in Chaing Mai as well. Her first time out of Thailand! Has been a wonderful trip so far, although I nearly ended things a few days ago. Found an e-mail in her sent box from May, to a Japanese ex-customer. Actually, the guy who broke the yolk. She had e-mailed him, telling him she missed him and to call her. I went bonkers, started packing up everything I had given her, as well as my own things. Was going to go to Chiang Rai to wait out my stay, climb a few mountains, get some sanity back.

Her best friend came rushing over, much tears, apologies. I sent an e-mail to my investigators, they checked the records for that week, only people she was seen with were her lady friends. My girl told me that she was lonely, and that her and Hiro are still friends. Am I stupid to believe her? Yes. Am I stupid about most of this? Yes. Does she love me? Unless this is one monstrously protracted, extremely well articulated scam I would say yes. Remember, I thought the ex-wife loved me as well, as she drilled my best friend in my bed while I travelled. I keep weighing the pros and cons in my mind, and my love for this little lady transcends minor transgressions. I keep catching her in tiny little lies, all from when we first me. She told me no man had ever told her they loved her until me, but her old e-mail records indicate otherwise. She had originally told me her flight to "up country" in April for Songkran was her first, but yesterday she told me she flew to krabi with a friend and her customer just before she met me. Previously, she told me she went by car (she did, on the return trip). Little inconsistenicies. I call her on each one, she confesses, and unlike the ex says "sorry." She is a very calm person, and the tears do not become tirades.

We have shared very intimate details the past few days. Her upbringing, her issues with friends and family. She has been so tender to me, so helpful (went out in the fon tawk to get my contact lens solution while I slept, woke me up with my favorite mango lotion being "specially" massaged!). She has prejum duen right now, so her "smoking" practice has accelerated! I almost don't want any more!

In short, questions remain. I feel that it would be healthy for farang/farang relationships if men were more cynical, less driven by socio-biological urges to protect and procreate.

We looked at homes in Chiang mai, I love it there. So does she. We both bonded with our driver, who showed us everything for three days. I chatted with him while she took a few more photos at the Temple in the Hills. He was quite understanding, and he smiled at me gently..."Mr. XXXXX, you area lucky man. She has had a tough life, but sees her future in you. You are her lover. Her best friend. Her savior. Her life. She will love you for a long time. She wants to own a home. Have children with you. And be a housewife. Her family likes you. " He would not lie to me, I am certain. All three of us spoke Angkrit almost the whole visit. They broke in to Thai only a few times.

We looked at some new houses in Chiang Mai, and the little domestic in her broke out. Nothing fancy 4-5 million baht, I wanted to look at fancy ones. We looked at ruby rings, she would not let me buy one I negotiated down from 410,000 b to 250,000! We learned about silk production. She bought (from her own money) gorgeous silk for her mother and grandmother for mother's day. She kisses me in public now, and candidly discusses what SHE wants in the future. "To forget her past." She wants out of Bangkok, FAST. She destroyed her SIM card, because her working friends always gave their angkrit speaking customers her number so she could be intermediary. She understands that what she did is shameful, but what is done is done. She pities her friends who still do it. NO, these girls do not enjoy their jobs. They despise it. all of them. They do it for money, for family, for appeasing the marketing God's that tempt them daily on TV.

I asked her to start reading the newspaper. To switch off the Thai soaps for the Discovery channel. She loves learning about galapogous islands, crocodiles, etc. Hong Kong BLEW her mind. Climbing up 1000 steps in Chiang mai, blew her away. She loooks at me, says "honey, I can breathe very well here." We RAN in Lumpini Park together. Pinch me. She went 100 ft, i went 1 hour. But pinch me nonetheless.

Guys, purported ladies, and occasional gentlemen, I have every aspect of love I had with my ex-wife, and the wonderful day in 1989 I met her. I love this woman. She is growing, changing, morphing, BECOMING before my eyes. it is the daughter, wife, and sex kitten all rolled in to one. She KNOWS now I will not have mia noi. She waits to come to my country. She no longer is friends with one of her friends that both her mother and I do not like. "Bad girl." She now dresses in conservative clothes, and unfortunately for my credit card likes shopping for them! Oh yes, she really wanted the gorgeous ruby ring in Chiang Mai. I could tell she was sad when we left. We went next door to a silver factory. She bought a 1200 baht silver bracelet. To her? Just as good.

On the plane ride home, she whispered in my ear that she hadn't pooped in five days! Then she whispered she loved me. Piloerection. Look it up.

Next step? Married life. Normal. No customers. NO BANGKOK. No hookers. No sex trade.

We picked out a house for her folks up country, 800,000 baht. She gets it when she graduates from university. I set up another account with $25,000 for her. Another gift upon graduation to set up her shop. GOALS. Hard work. Earning money with mind, not pussy. She understands that her brain has MUCH higher long term potential for capital gains...

Dana says:

It's like reading modern pulp fiction space fantasy where the hero goes to a faraway galaxy and has many adventures. Chilling and scary and interesting. Wouldn't trade places with the hero for a Thai second. Good Luck to everyone.

Captain America says:

Dana,

Mon ami, you are so fucking right! :-)

Still, all true, and all stream of consciousness. it has been the wildest five months of my life.

I still have horrors this will end badly. The kids. The house in chainng Mai, the shop (she wants a shop, what TGF doesn't?).

Her mind changes like the wind. Her ability to concentrate for more than one minute on anything is predicated upon Thai soap operas narcolitizing effects. Occasionally, I know it is not a language barrier but a planetary barriier that gives her this far off, "oops i fuucked up so i better laugh" look. it is comical.

I honestly would cry for weeks if I lost her. And I honestly would be better off for having done so. it is, Fellini-esque but not quite that real! :-)

Had a friend who ran off to join the navy at 17. he came back, with tales of the Phillipines, far off lands, drinking songs. he died on a ship accident two years later, buut his rallying cry to coax us in to anothher snort of Jack Daniels will remain with me, and seems rather apropos..."up to it, and down to it, and fuck the man who can't do it!"

XX has cost me about $35k US, including trips and all expenses (guessing). My ex once lost (1999) $135k in a single day trading thhe IPO of Palm Computing. For my $35k, not withstanding the inflation from 1999, includes intense sex, more intense sex, moments of the DEEPEST human intimacy i have ever had with anyone, parents included, and enough highs and lows to keep the shrinks in Austin in the black when i return to Earth. You know, you need to scorch the fallow fields on occasion, to make the soil rich for new growth. If I must go back to farang pooying, this experience will have prepped me.

I do have a bottle of Remeron, makes me sleep like a baby. A chilled bottle of Cristal. And an Audi TT convertible these days. The Audi burns very, very dirty. Easy. 30 MG remeron. On bottle Cristal. 8 quiet hours in the garage.

Mango Sauce might just be a quiter place...

The Captain. For now.

TANAI KWAI says:

(deep breath...)

Cap'n,

These are free opinions. In that sense, they may be worthless... or priceless. My bits of advice may sound more like directives than suggestions but don't take offense at my tone.

"Found an e-mail in her sent box from May, to a Japanese ex-customer. Actually, the guy who broke the yolk. She had e-mailed him, telling him she missed him and to call her. I went bonkers, started packing up everything I had given her, as well as my own things."

Oh, to experience such surprise and wonder again... But those days are behind me. Anyway, don't be shocked if there are others on your girl's backburners until you really pan out (and shell out). One of the first things a bargirl learns is how to play this game. It is a love game. It is a sex game. It is a long-term career game. Whether and how much she plays, if she cobbles together a string of short-timers or goes for the long-term con, and how ruthless her style, is all that varies from girl to girl. But they all have the rudimentary knowledge, the apprentice-level magic, to keep things interesting for those who would try to love them, to tame them, to know them.

And so it is, arguably, a foolish, even selfish (she's got a family to feed, remember?) girl who doesn't take out some insurance in the form of a "Hiro" or two. I suggest you simply be empathetic. If she is worth it, then just methodically jockey and nose aside "Hiro" and "Gunther" and "Steve" and "Mustafa" and "Mbeke" and the Italian water polo team that was in town for a rare money tournament. Don't go "bonkers." Fear ain't the mind-killer, it's jealousy and male pride. Take it as a compliment and a testament to your good taste that she has multiple suitors. Or, take it as a warning sign. In any case, take it like a man.

"Little inconsistenicies. I call her on each one, she confesses..."

Holy cow, imagine what little inconsistencies lurk in respect of her mileage in the bars. I don't say that to be cruel. I say it because -- without a fundamental shift in your mindset -- it's hard to imagine these issues won't arise again... and again... and again... Then your whole life is bonkers redux.

So you must GET OVER IT. All of it. You don't want to be vulnerable to this "customer" stuff. As the immortal Quarterflash song instructs (and I paraphrase it often), "You better harden your heart... You better swallow your tears..."

"She understands that what she did is shameful, but what is done is done."

This is the whole problem in a nutshell. You shame her. She shames herself. This will be a card you both play in the future.

You: "When I rescued you from that bar you were nothing but a filthy whore."

Her: "Yes, I'm just a filthy whore. I'm no good. No matter how many Discovery channel specials on The World of the Mollusk I watch, I still fucked Mbeke. Given that the concept of face was fed to my through my mother's teat milk I think I'll do something dramatic and immature and, frankly, stupid, to express my self-loathing. Perhaps I'll take some scissors to my hair. Or burn my clothes. A lame suicide attempt might be a nice touch. This, in turn, will only wind up frustrating, confusing and scaring you because I now seem like a crazy stranger who lives in your home."

"She pities her friends who still do it."

Sure she does. She pities them all. Except the one who gets Hiro on his next swing through town. Captain my Captain, you know the world is full of shades of gray. Thailand, however, is not only full of shades of gray -- it is full of shades of every color in the spectrum. Roll with it, baby. If you really want to extinguish Hiro, don't ever bring him up again, unless you're showing her the door.

"NO, these girls do not enjoy their jobs. They despise it. all of them."

Okay, chief. And by this logic, your angel never enjoyed a second of it either. But let's say she did? So what! It's Chinatown, Jake! Take pleasure in that. You only live once and so does she. Forget Mustafa! His face, his touch, are whispy memories to her now. Not all of these girls sit around feeling burdened by having made some great money, often with more capable lovers than their first boyfriend, Kitti, from her village.

"They do it for money, for family, for appeasing the marketing God's that tempt them daily on TV."

Those darned marketing gods. They make you fuck all kinds of people. Again, stop apologizing for her. It must be fun for a pretty girl from the sticks to play grown-up, buy some fashionable clothes like her favorite actress wears, and receive attention from wealthy, sometimes decent-looking men. Don't begrudge the moments of fun she might have had. Because if she carries these moments in her heart she will only feel shamed. (And throughout this I am charitably assuming, I suppose, that she really does feel shame.)

"She wants to own a home."

You could knock me down with a feather.

"We looked at some new houses in Chiang Mai... Nothing fancy 4-5 million baht, I wanted to look at fancy ones. We looked at ruby rings, she would not let me buy one I negotiated down from 410,000 b to 250,000!"

"Nothing fancy." To whom is this directed? To the other wealthy guys who patronize this board? There are a lot of farang reading this who would give their eyeteeth for 4 million baht. Surely you apprehend this, right?

More to the point, if you don't start thinking like a Thai money-wise you could get royally fucked if this goes South. And do not, DO NOT fall in love with her because she appears to be frugal. "She bought a 1200 baht silver bracelet. To her? Just as good." You are furiously altering her expectations with your every gesture. Should this wind up in the shitter because Hiro whisks her away to the Land of the Rising Sun you'll want that goddamned cheap bracelet back, my friend. As you are hellbent on a legit, binding, U.S. marriage in front of God and everyone, her American sisters will fill her in on the best attorneys when things get rocky or Japan calls.

"We learned about silk production. She bought (from her own money) gorgeous silk for her mother and grandmother for mother's day."

Ah yes, her own money. That curious TGF concept as resistant to logic as the notion that punters should not be butterfly.

"it is the daughter, wife, and sex kitten all rolled in to one..."

She is not a fantasy. She is a young woman with precious little in common with you. Which is okay. But the more you fetishize her, the harder you could fall. Just my opinion (again).

"She KNOWS now I will not have mia noi."

This I don't understand at all. Why let this young woman get you wrapped around the axle having these kinds of discussions? Nothing wrong with fidelity but I just couldn't stomach long conversations about this mia noi concern, the eternal lament of all Thai women. And the way you say it, with pigeon-English passion -- as though she is saying it. Yikes. You sound programmed. I can only conclude that issues of infidelity must have impacted you in some way growing up. They surely have shaped her experience. Don't let the fidelity issue be lorded over you, even if you plan to be angelic. It is not a stretch to predict that there may come a time when you will resent being so chaste in view of the fact that she's been "such a whore."

"On the plane ride home, she whispered in my ear that she hadn't pooped in five days!"

Mouth open... no words.

"Isn't it romantic?
Music in the night, a dream that can be heard.
Isn't it romantic?
Constipated bargirl, hangs on every word..."

(from "Isn't It Romantic," Words & Music by Lorenz Hart, Richard Rodgers & T. Kwai)

"Next step? Married life. Normal. No customers. NO BANGKOK. No hookers. No sex trade."

Must... finish reply post... head... exploding...

"We picked out a house for her folks up country, 800,000 baht. She gets it when she graduates from university."

Aaarghhh...

"I set up another account with $25,000 for her."

More money... than sense... rain... in Spain... falling mainly on plain... not much strength...

"Earning money with mind, not pussy."

She is... earning money with pussy... right now...

"She understands that her brain has MUCH higher long term potential for capital gains..."

Of this... I am sure...

And combine brain... with pussy... MUCH MUCH MUCH higher...

(good luck... really)

Dana says:

What do you get if you combine Dean's vision and Tanai Kwai's production quality? You get "It's Chinatown Jake." Finest quote on the Thai farang scene I have read in years.

Captain America says:

TK,

You are very, very right. And I can not get over it. I know she liked it. Even on dark skin one can see the tell tale signs of female enjoyment. I can not get over it. Makes me sad to my core. I honestly could care less about Thai culture in this regard, she was pure whore. I don't care why she did it, it sickens me.

I need to get out of this relationship, it has made me live, and is killing me.

CA

Sandy says:

"Earning money with mind, not pussy."

"She is... earning money with pussy... right now..."

She's got her mind(and her pussy) on her man.

That's her main job just to keep CA happy anyway?

Roll with the bumps big guy!

Sandy

Captain America says:

Thanks Sandy, I am afraid my work out schedules have been truncated, and this whole thing has me going through some amazing mood swings.

I think I need to put tongue firmly back in cheek, as i realize some of the "advice" from certain posters falls under the FUD umbrella (fear, uncertainty, doubt)!

If she dumps me? If I get burnt? I had fun. I have changed. And call me the dumbest, fucknuts, simple, piteous farang this side of my rudderless Commander In Chief...this girl will remember me. And i believe she has seen a world that she WANTS. Paycheck. Baan. Babies. Respect.

I bought her new shoes (700 baht, before you whiners accuse me of spoiling her!). Sort of a hippy place in a Bangkok night bazaar (sanuk, I actually had fun there!). yesterday, lady in HK commented she liked her shoes. Wow, she was still talking about it last night. She looks like a prep school Thai girl now, and hher friends have completely stopped calling (could be the destroyed SIM card, the 500 baht of which it costs is driving her nuts!). Only one, very good girl (she left the life after one month, it was killing her) remains her friend. The other girls? Jealousy? Derision that XX pities them? I do not know, but I swear to God this girl is changing.

Yesterday was the Queen's birthday, mothers day, and her good friends birthday. But she wanted to be in HK with me! Called her Mom and Grandmother. I spoke to them, she wrote out phonetically what I should say. her Mom really does like me.

So. She does not drink much. Does not gamble. Is cheap to a fault. Has 80,000 baht of her own money in the bank (all from me, but she saves God bless her!). She gave me her bank statement, which was unnecessary as my team of crack spies already knows her access code! She gets no e-mail from any man. Last one was 5/17/2004. I read through old ones, Hiro/Hide is a student. Back in February, he asked XX to save up money to visit him in Japan. he also stuck her for taxi and airport departure fee the last trip!

She slept with maybe 10-15 men at most, and will tell me anything i can stomacjh to listen to. No ganja. No drugs. No skeletons. Good girl. Good grades in high school. Highly, highly trainable. Talented singer, really talented. Smiles all the time, except when i drive her ting tong (like any good husband and wife). She intros me to everyone as her samii, or "busband." her Angkrit improves daily. When I do not worry about the past, the future seems BEAUTIFUL.

I dream about that little house in Chiang Mai. Life there. Fresh air. Starting a retreat for tri-athletes, and teaching Angkrit. Of her shop, whatever it might be. Of coming home to her, sharing a massage, holding her hand, running my fingers through hair like fine silk. I love her guys. Yes she liked getting fucked, licked and paid for it. Maybe i would too? She is a good girl, and I am going to cross this abyss. With dignity. With a smile. And full understanding of how long one can fall if the bottom is incomprehensible...

Ciao fellow libertines.

Gimpy1 says:

CA,

Dump her. She's a whore and sucks dick for a living! Growing up, didn't your mother ever warn you about the kind of women you meet in bars?

Tania,

Your life must really be pathetic to type all of that. Didn't you ever take English 101 or Composition 101? The next time you are blowing one of your former english teachers in the Starbuck's restroom, why don't you show them a copy of your posts. I'm sure they will say, "Tania, quit talking and lick my balls! After I fill your mouth with my hot cum, I will review your posts." Once they've fowled your mouth, I'm sure they will also say,

"Keep it short, concise and to the point! Also get a life!"

Dana says:

Hello CA--Well, I know one thing. You've got more stamina than me. Your posts exhaust me. The real life experience would just kill me. Good Luck.

TANAI KWAI says:

CA,

"I think I need to put tongue firmly back in cheek..."

READ: I think I better strap my blinders on ever more tightly.

"...as i realize some of the 'advice' from certain posters falls under the FUD umbrella (fear, uncertainty, doubt)!"

Really? That's what you get out of my post? That I wasn't giving you advice, but only useless negativity?

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt (FUD) Defined:

"The term, which stands for fear, uncertainty and doubt, was originally coined in the 1970s in reference to IBM's marketing technique of spreading rumors about a competitor's new product to dissuade customers from taking a 'risk' by buying it. FUD relies on emotionónot reasonóto make a sale (or prevent one)."

Au contraire, mon capitain, my words were merely cautionary; as referenced in David's story of today, I don't presume to sing more sweetly than your siren. If you crash against the rocks I could not have stopped you from doing so. Take care not to seek foolhardy shelter under own FUD umbrella: Fantasy & Unyielding Devotion. First it's:

"If she dumps me? If I get burnt? I had fun."

But a couple of mood swings earlier you wrote, "I need to get out of this relationship, it has made me live, and is killing me."

Sure sounds fun.

"I bought her new shoes (700 baht, before you whiners accuse me of spoiling her!)."

You badly miss the point. It's not about "spoiling her." It's about keeping the wheels on and not getting so intoxicated with this that you lost all sense of judgment and reality. Did you read your previous post? Ay ay ay. Go ahead. Do what you want. It's your money.

"Only one, very good girl (she left the life after one month, it was killing her) remains her friend."

Wow, you can't swing a cat without hitting an angel. "She very good girl, honey... No have customer... She different... It miracle honey... Same same me. Before when flend bring customer, big mistake!"

"So. She does not drink much. Does not gamble. Is cheap to a fault. Has 80,000 baht of her own money in the bank (all from me, but she saves God bless her!)."

(...)

"She gave me her bank statement, which was unnecessary as my team of crack spies already knows her access code! She gets no e-mail from any man. Last one was 5/17/2004."

For someone so ingenious you'd think she would have figured out how to set up another email account at an internet shop. BTW, here's another cost-effective (not that money is an object) surveillance tip: buy her a camera phone and ask her to send you pictures in real time from her purported locations.

"I read through old ones, Hiro/Hide is a student. Back in February, he asked XX to save up money to visit him in Japan. he also stuck her for taxi and airport departure fee the last trip!"

Clearly, she hates Hiro. Pities him, really. He's POOR, for Chrissakes! How can these paupers and village boyfriends hope to compete?* "When Captain America throws his mighty shield..." What? I did that one? Oh... Sorry.

"She intros me to everyone as her samii, or "busband."

That's sweet. Mine calls me her "samii noi." Hope we aren't talking about the same girl. (winky)

"Yes she liked getting fucked, licked and paid for it. Maybe i would too?"

NOW we're getting somewhere. Think about it. What really bothers you? The licking? The juicing? What? Forget about it. D.H. Lawrence called sex "the ridiculous act." It's just silly, in the end. Then you die. Remember, Man-Pride is the mind-killer. (Unless you are Gimpy1, in which case it's Man-Ass that brings you to your knees.)

(...)

*L.L. Cool J. has an apt one called "I'm That Type Of Guy" a/k/a "The Poor Thai Boyfriend's Song":

"You're the type of guy that can't control your girl
You try to buy her love with diamonds and pearls
I'm the type of guy that shows up on the scene
And gets the seven digits, you know the routine
You're the type of guy that tells her, "Stay inside"
While you're steady frontin' in your homeboy's ride
I'm the type of guy that comes when you leave
I'm doin' your girlfriend, that's somethin' you can't believe

You're the type of guy that gets suspicious
I'm the type of guy that says, "The puddin' is delicious"
You're the type of guy that has no idea
That a sneaky, freaky brother's sneakin' in from the rear
I'm the type of guy to eat it, when he won't
And look in the places that your boyfriend don't
You're the type of guy to try to call me a punk
Not knowin' that your main girl's bitin' my chunk
I'm the type of guy that loves a dedicated lady
Their boyfriends are borin', and I can drive em' crazy
You're the type of guy to give her money to shop
She gave me a sweater
**KISS**
THANKS, SWEETHEART!

Gimpy1 says:

Tania,

Jesus Christ! You're pathetic as always!

To bring myself to your level and quote a song. Busta Rhymes did a song, (don't recall the name as I actually have a life,) but the closing lyric was:
"Suck my dick!"

Captain America says:

Mayhap the old adage, "'tis all masquerade" is a two way street. if not more? :-)

Thank you TK, Gimpy, et al. Life is a balance sheet for both genders, and my accounting skills have oft sucked.

If this is love, I am a lucky man. If this is a game, I often win. And i am not some 60 year old man, feeling my oats via a young, tangy portal. If some "punk" is squeezing my tomotoes, I will find out. And i will remove the spoiled parts.

Appreciate the origin of FUD, you seem to know much about the subject! :-)

Love is transient. So is life. So is thought. So is paradigm. Perception is everything. After my first marriage ended, I can now survive anything.

Marrying a whore is fraught with danger. So is marrying Princess Diana, or marrying former President kennedy. I do not demand fidelity, although it would be nice. Today we visited The Peak in Hong Kong. Took quite a few pictures. She had a look of complete awe on her face. Everywhere we walked in Tsim Sha Tsui, she held me so closely. Hung on me, as though begging me not to leave her. She was afraid. Suddenly, she understood why not knowing the Thai language is tough on me while in Thailand. We went to St. Andrew's Church, and I genuflected as she did her Satsanaa Puut bows. She knew it was a place of some reverence to me. On the ferry ride back, she called her Mom. From what I could gather, she was bragging to her what a beautiful country this was. That she was happy. That I was sabaydee. That she was safe. A little girl. Afraid, enthralled. Is she fucking around on me? Chalat enough to have alternate bank accounts? Could be. But my friend is paying $3000/US per month for five folks to learn everything about her. Photos. Background checks in the village. Police records. Phone calls. Has been going on for months. NOTHING. Just one e-mail, to Hiro. We talked about it tonight. She said she was not sure at the time I really loved her. I was travelling a lot for my employer, and under great stress (our division is in some trouble). I indeed had ignored her.

Besides, i think she is too lazy to have a faen! Like most thai women from Isaan, she has little stamina!

I mean, she commited the ULTIMATE sacrifice for me, destroyed her SIM card! Her phone number, one that was easy to remember! :-) She is still in tears over it.

Artifice? Damn, fucking good if it is! Bravo to her! Saw Phantom of the Opera last month, first row in a matinee. Great performance, I clapped for 20 minutes. if this is all charade, I will clap for an hour. Take that teaching job in Isaan, and fall in love with a nice 25 year old pooying. Good girl. I will miss this one, but will still be thankful to her.

the indomnitable human spirit. The weakness of the flesh. The lofty aspirations of the spirit. Our deities should be shot, malicious motherfuckers they are...

CA (With Shield to the Fore)

Greg says:

"Our deities should be shot, malicious motherfuckers they are..."

I applaud your spirit. Taking the ride, playing the game as the only game to play.

I would likely make choices that led to different problems, but I respect your enthusiastic greed for the good and bad of life.

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain A writes,

"Appreciate the origin of FUD, you seem to know much about the subject! :-)"

FUD is quite a common term in the computer business, just as Fantasy & Undying Devotion is quite a common syndrome among farangs in the BG business.

"And i am not some 60 year old man, feeling my oats via a young, tangy portal."

No, I seem to recall you are about 45, and she is around 20.

"If some 'punk' is squeezing my tomotoes, I will find out. And i will remove the spoiled parts... But my friend is paying $3000/US per month for five folks to learn everything about her. Photos. Background checks in the village. Police records. Phone calls...."

I would draw your attention to a charming play by MoliËre entitled The School for Husbands (L'…cole des Maris). Took Paris by storm in its day and still offers some edifying lessons.

(...)

The Nite Owl says:

The tom toms have it that the "Cuddle Parties" now all the rage in New York City will soon make their debut in Krungthep caravanseries. Seems participants show up in their negligees, camisoles and jammies and climb in bed for some old-fashioned frottage. Sounds like good clean fun. First such soirÈe to be held at Club Picasso, Soi 33, this Thursday. Doors open at bedtime. Speak to Lek or Chuck for more details.

Henry the Eighth,
Sure had trouble,
Short-term wives,
Long-term stubble.
Burma-Shave!

Did you know?

The surest way to tell a newbie punter in the throes of demimondaine love is his cringeworthy tendency to pepper his English with bargirl-level Thai words? The only way to seem more ridiculous is to head to Patpong and wai all the touts.

BUT I DON'T GIVE A HOOT!

Captain America says:

She's a rebel. Wants different clothes. To be the first in her village to go to America, get a University degree.

Moliere, would be proud of the way I treat this young lady. Read the book many eons ago, think the husband was rather an oppresive lout. I am not. We had fun in a night bazaar last night again.

Tomorrow, marriage.

You know, she loves my money. I love her beauty. Would not have fallen for her otherwise. But she is buying me tight shirts, and enjoys showing off my body to her friends. Has quite a fw photos of me in the shower, displaying other muscles. I am MORE confident in her than my first wife, who preferred women.

It's the end of the world as I know it, and I feel fine.

And, the pre-nup has been drafted in Austin. I explained it to her yesterday. "Mai pen rai."

Dana, you might just want to trade places. This is a good life.

CA

Sandy says:

"You know, she loves my money. I love her beauty. Would not have fallen for her otherwise. But she is buying me tight shirts, and enjoys showing off my body to her friends. Has quite a fw photos of me in the shower, displaying other muscles. I am MORE confident in her than my first wife, who preferred women."

"...some "punk" is squeezing my tomotoes"(!)

Are you sure you're not Dick Headly?

Dana says:

Hello Captain America--

I would like to trade places but I haven't got the money or the balls or the heart. You are living my dream. Good Luck.

SharkFrenzy says:

Any pre nup discussed with your wife in the absense of a Thai speaking attorney representing "her" is not worth the paper its written on. Stay tuned to this story. Captain America may find out if he can fly off a Pattaya balcony some day.

TANAI KWAI says:

Sharkfrenzy,

You thunder-stealing FUD-monger! Nice catch on the pre-nup issue. A decent divorce lawyer will attack it on the basis that she was not aware of what she was signing. The rub is that a good divorce lawyer that would provide her with the effective counsel necessary to make such an agreement binding would likely be committing malpractice by letting her sign something so one-sided.

Perhaps you can take over as I am exhausted. No thanks to Greg and Dana on this project. The Captain may see you as benign Tenilles in this adventure. But we know you are merely fueling his Knievelesque exploits. When he should be taking another practice run past the ramp before leaping over the great abyss, you tell him you love the throaty, crackling sound of his Harley muffler.

A good counselor's job is to point out the potential problems, no matter how remote or inconceivable they may seem now.

"She's a rebel."

A rebel from what or whom, Cap? From her family, because she was working in the bars? Or perhaps she is rebelling from her family by leaving the bars? Or is it her piteous friends she rebels against by leaving the bar? Or maybe this is just a very oblique reference to her taste for listening to Lynrd Skynrd?

"Wants different clothes."

Mine too!!! Night market clothes are cheap. Emporium clothes are nicer.

"To be the first in her village to go to America..."

America number 1. You will find that certain ladies in Thailand are much more keen on going to America, than say, France or Spain.

"...get a University degree."

She sounds plenty smart enough. I am sure this is an attainable goal, assuming she doesn't decide she doesn't really want to work or study after all once ensconced in relative luxury in 5000 square-foot Austin McMansion on Dellionaire's row. Shopping at the Barton Creek Mall for shoes can be a hell of a lot more fun than trigonometry -- despite all of the cute boys in class at the local community college.

"Moliere, would be proud of the way I treat this young lady. Read the book many eons ago, think the husband was rather an oppresive lout. I am not."

Actually, there are two men portrayed -- one who is hyper-vigilant and feared, one who facilitates trysts between the woman and her young lover. The theme is generally that swimming against nature is a tough course to row.

"Tomorrow, marriage."

(...)

"You know, she loves my money. I love her beauty. Would not have fallen for her otherwise. But she is buying me tight shirts, and enjoys showing off my body to her friends. Has quite a fw photos of me in the shower, displaying other muscles. I am MORE confident in her than my first wife, who preferred women."

That's the beauty of Thai women. They can make you believe they would rather be with a decent-looking, modestly wealthy 35-45 year-old man than, say, a young Thai pop star or David Beckham. I don't doubt you have a spectacular body for a man of any age -- but don't think for a second she doesn't fully appreciate how important it is for you to be admired in this respect. Everyone has an Achilles' heel. In the case of men attracted to Thai BG-types they may have an entire Achilles' leg. It's just BITW when they pick up on a man's hubris -- Blood In The Water.

"Dana, you might just want to trade places. This is a good life."

Be honest with yourself at all times. If something doesn't feel quite right don't blow past it with macho insouciance. It's no use candidly admitting you are fallible -- almost only for effect -- but secretly believing you are loads smarter than those who would question your actions.

Over to you, Shark.

(...)

Greg says:

CA, I missed one thing in your personal story. Why are you getting married before you have lived together for a while?

I'm of the opinion that it takes about 2 years for a couple to get a good feeling if they are compatible long term. After two years the love buzz also dies down, transforming the relationship.

Dana says:

TK this is for your eyes only--"My Work Is Done!"

TANAI KWAI says:

Greg,

Some decency -- at long last.

Dana,

At long last -- have you no sense of decency?

(with apologies to Joseph Welch)

Captain America says:

Greg, TK and Dana,

Great question, massive introspection! WHY am I getting married? Dear me.

Initially, I wanted to "save" her. I see now, her life was not all that bad to her. OR, she has built an impenetrable wall of rationalization around it.

The relationship pprogressed, (for me) in to one of deep concern, lust, love, admiration, amazement, fun, respect. Yes, respect.

I want children, and she seems like a great potential Mom. She knows i want them NOW, but repeatedly lets me know not for a few years (university first, shop/employment second, although baby could be number 2). If she were just reading my tea leaves, she would profess "baby, baby" ad nauseum. Would melt my heart.

I want companionship, and after living with a darkly beautiful, intensely intelligent and morose young lass with blue eyes, the genre sickens me. I can not stand to be alone, my life is one of constant travel, and have had no luck in truly forming a bond with those beauteous creatures that prowl the Barton Creek Mall. Although i am quite enamored of having a Nordstroms present!

We should date longer. I fear the TOEFL test is beyond her short term reach, so student visa was not a viable option. Fiancee visa gave us both an out. if she hated it here, or 30 days of co-habitation proved non fungible, back to LOS with no penalties.

I appreciate the warnings, suggestions, pertuberances you have each thrown in my orbit aimed directly in to the sun. Such will always be the fate of the moth. Still, when the moth flames brightly, the fly remains behind, saprophytically drawing its sustinence from a stinky pile of dung. I choose glory and possible death, because I was bored before. Do the problems lie within, not in female externalities? No doubt. My only difference is in having read the man in the Grey Flannel Suit and speaking candidly about my machinations on said theme.

Hong Kong was quite the trip. This little ex-bar girl burst in to near JOY at being able to babble to the "choffer" on the ride home. That was in a country 2 hours from home, with great beauty and heat. On her iPOD, I note NOTHING now but Thai songs. She bragged incessently about how much better Thai taxis were than Chinese, how much "straighter" the streets were in thailand. Thai. Thai. Thai. thai.

Austin, TX might be a tough rode to ride, and it might just be for whatever pearls exist in my turgid heart. So be it. Perhaps i will instead be a broken 45 year old man, instead of the ALIVE 43 year old man I am at present? In contrast to the completely quiescent, static, broken, man i was at 41?

If she wants the money, let her come and earn a degree to get it. My pre-nups will be done by Austin's best divorce (family) lawyer. They will be executed concurrently in LOS, and they will not be peirced in Thai or Texas court. His pre-nups rarely are. Even if yes, let her have it. The money does me no good, if I remain alone.

The Captain

PS Gentleman, you forget that many, many such relationships turn out spectacularly. I know quite a few, as my friend has been an LOS visitor for 12 years, and has a Thai wife the same period of time. Two lovely children. A devoted lady at home, although the same may not be said of him. If she must have sex with 20 year old students, or David Beckham himself, so be it. My ex and I had a few swapping rounds in early marriage. it was fun, and I would gladly take the 20 year old's girlfriend. Beckham's wife ain't too bad either.

Roll with the punches, my Dad always taught me. They hurt less that way...

See, no need to worry for me! :-)

Dana says:

Jesus man, you're wearing me out. And I quess you've worn me down. So much confessional expostulation must be rewarded with open hearted thoughts of Good Luck. So many happy thoughts for the future and present day happinesses should have effected me to at least peek down the same road myself. It hasn't. Too burned up I quess. I quess I can no longer believe. But don't you stop believing (cue TK song lyrics). Your girls response to being able to talk to the chauffeur sounds familiar. I took a BG to Chiang Mai. In the car to the temple she just LIT UP talking to the chauffeur. I looked at her as if I had never seen her before. Suddenly I realized I would never be more than 20% of her world. Language barrier. An early lesson learned.

Captain America says:

She is still asleep, and I just loaded the web site I create for every trip's pictures. I need to find a way to share, without giving my identity (this web site makes it easy to discern my name).

Dana, your a very erudite gentleman. I say thank you. I need support, and not too many of my friends back home could quite understand where I am at present.

We made love VERY, late last night. I quietely "finished" in her. She kept going, giving me that "I'm really damn tired, come already" look that no respecting Western whore/wife ever would. Then she realized, she would have to go to "hospital for pill." I told her no, NO hospital. NO pill. Baby. She smiled. A very nice smile. NO pill it is.

Men and women have been interred in prison camps. Have had arms severed for stealing. Have died of famine. Have had loved ones die prematurely. Have seen their babies incinerated by nuclear holocost. Have suffered drought, hurricane, typhoons. Have died of AIDS, SARS, Swine Flu, Bird Flu. It is all capricious Dana. Jump back on the horse, and love again. It can NOT end badly, it can only END. Humanity has also given us Beethoven's Ode to Joy, flower gardens, babbling brooks in the Montana Spring. And my XX.

Trust, is not the mind killer. The ancient orator Cato once said "cynicism is the mark of the intelligent mind." I might say, it is also the curse of the intelligent mind.

I LOVE HER. Hormones. Ontogeny. Phylogeny. Societal taboos. And a cornucopia of psychological/pyhsiological constructs have combined to give me moments of bliss, despair, fear, warmth, safety, JOY. When I smile, many ladies have commented on my dimples. They love them. For two years they disappeared.

Dongwater says:

Loves Phantom of the Opera

Spending alleged wads of cash to pay people to continuously spy on his child-lover

TEXAS?

Could be some illusory tales going on here.

My guess is Miss Isaan will be ending up living in a trailer park with a shotgun wielding redneck ("Captain America" sounds like a handle that GW Bush or the NRA pres would use).

Anyone else here see "Between Heaven and Earth"?

Can't wait to see the bloody double suicide photos in the newspaper

Dongwater says:

Oh, and by the by, what's with this ridiculously detailed ongoing saga about one person's bizarre "love" affair.

Dude, get your own blog and save some space for others to post.

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain,

I, for one, am not a dung-hungry fly. Nor am I "cursed" with cynicism. Fact is, you would probably be shocked to learn how similar our stories really are.

I merely modulate my approach to advising the prospective BG-loving farang in direct relation to how reckless and hellbent he appears to be. If you ever chance upon my advice to JDMan you will note that I actually seek to buoy his hopes because I found that his pendulum, at that point, had swung too far in the direction of abject cynicism.

Like Gentleman Dana, as he is known here, I wish you the best of luck. I also respect the needs you've expressed, which you hope to satisfy through this relationship. You are correct -- it can work with a Thai woman. But introduce the BG angle and the chances diminish precipitously. Still, there are success stories.

Dongwater,

Actually, the Captain's saga is pretty much the type of material that anchors the site. If you have something similar to share no one will ask you to curtail your comments about it.

I would also submit that the vast majority of what he writes is true, with perhaps a little embellishment -- but nothing that corrodes the integrity of his story.

(...)

Captain America says:

Dong,

I'm a Libertarian, BTW. Rice University educated. Which is to say, I can both read and perhaps write a macabre screenplay aptly titled, "The Donger needs Food."

Never held a shotgun, but own a nice Sig and Colt 1911 Govt. Model. No doubt, she might use them on me one day if mangoes are not in season.

I live on a beautiful golf course, near beautiful Lake Travis. She likes boats, and I will teach her to wakeboard. She likes motorcycles, and will enjoy my Texas Chain Saw massacre Ducati 996.

Dude, piss off. This thread obviously appeals to those with some neuronal density, if not the ability to dream!

CA

TANAI KWAI says:

CA,

"This thread obviously appeals to those with some neuronal density, if not the ability to dream!"

Yes, that's right, you're a regular Don Quijote, with Dana your trusty Sancho Panza. The rest of us are just landlocked, cynical souls who are threatened, frankly, by your fearless dreaming and derring-do. You're a true pioneer, blazing a new trail, taking the road less traveled, etc. And those of us too afraid to follow your lead just want to squash your joy.

(to dream, perchance to wake)

Greg says:

Some good points and posts on this thread TK, offered with insight and sensitivity.

This paragraph seemed humorously on target while at the same time being off-puttingly off target.

"Yes, that's right, you're a regular Don Quijote, with Dana your trusty Sancho Panza. The rest of us are just landlocked, cynical souls who are threatened, frankly, by your fearless dreaming and derring-do. You're a true pioneer, blazing a new trail, taking the road less traveled, etc. And those of us too afraid to follow your lead just want to squash your joy."

TK, if you were a super hero, what would be emblazoned on the chest of your costume? I got an image of Irony Man! Red and blue Lycra, form fitting open faced hood, and a big white I emblazoned on the chest. Irony man would by nature be a flawed character. Not a Superman or Dick Tracy type of hero, but closer to Stan Lee's Spiderman or Walt Kelly's Pogo. Maybe he drinks a bit, and his skills get the better of him on occasion.

If you were a fish, would you be an electric eel? Zapping hither and thither, for the joy of it.

What do you say to a friend who is fully well informed of serious potential pitfalls but decides to go ahead with a love relationship?

CA, I admire your willful naivete, so to speak. Your willingness to have a fresh heart. Get back on the horse, heartbreak is part of the game, to be embraced. That attitude is part of the joy de vivre of a wise man. A man wise enough to willfully make mistakes, eyes wide open. I should say willfully take risks, but I'm adding emphasis on the fact that taking big risks is similar to willfully making a mistake. You at minimum include the possibility of embracing the negative as a choice.

Personally I would likely choose different mistakes. Marriage out of love measured against previous loneliness is compelling, but perhaps a bit too compelling.

That's often the game in the west - feast or famine. Living in the Land of Vertical Smiles, where the cornucopia is perpetually replenished, puts loneliness into a different perspective. Love comes relatively easy here. It isn't particularly rare.

But you have to live in the US, and the visa is the way to go. So there you have it. You won't get to know your lover until being married for many months. And she won't be allowed to leave the US for two years without risking loosing her US permanent residency. No wonder you are sweating.

Dicky says:

re: Captain America

Who says you can't buy love?

TANAI KWAI says:

Greg,

Please have a look at what I was responding to in CA's commentary. This was not irony. My skills did not get the better of me. Blah, blah, blah.

(losing
losing
losing)

Captain America says:

TK,

I throughly enjoy your posts, and consider you one of the most erudite folks on this blog or the entire blogverse! Sincerely.

I also appreciate the feedback, advice, support, disdain, derision of other posters. Those who compose more than one line epitaphs like "dongwater" above!

'Nuff said.

Greg says:

"Yes, that's right, you're a regular Don Quijote, with Dana your trusty Sancho Panza. The rest of us are just landlocked,..."

That's not irony?

Captain America says:

Greg,

I think you understand me. My risk is measured, well...maybe not as much as it should be!

Last night, I fell asleep at 8 PM. She fretted over me, worrying if i was ill. It has been a long time since a wooman has done so (my ex, being from Gothenberg, had a Swedish stoicism that bordered on apathy).

Last night, as she watched those catty Thai soaps, applied lotions, potions, and powder for hours, I saw my unborn children in her. We have been making love bereft of protection, and in flagrant disregard for cycles. She trusts me to support her children. Cynics, might say she is hooking me in to such support. I think not.

My senses are on constant red alert. Eyes that close while telling me something, indicating a lie are very infrequent. We have spent an intense 12 days, much travel, hardly leaving each other for an hour. 100% compatible. Bought her Nike sneakers in Hong Kong. This morning, we run in a small park by our apartment. I must travel the day i get back to America, so i need something to quench the exercise beast! She is sore from lifting weights at the Conrad in HK, so I gave her a long massage last night. We studied English.

Very normal life. She already likes champagne, now all I need to do is spend some time in Napa with her, and wine will follow. Friday night on the porch does not seem too far fetched.

Men and women have developed methods of coping with our biological differences, urges, temprements. Thai ladies take good care of their husband's health, to protect their interests and the family. In Socialist America, the long nipple of the State's teat is always there for a woman to suck on. Men, have become vestigial appendages.

I begin to develop an appreciation for thailand, sans the heat (which I am either acclimating to, or is subsiding!).

While my travails, escapades, mental machinations, herculean simplicity seem to really rankle some posters, I intend to see this chronicle through for as long as David is kind enough to allow.

Next stop, America. Or, to stay on message...TBG in Farangland-Part III

CA

PS Greg, thank you.

Captain America says:

http://www.aloofphoto.com/captainamerica/gallery.1/

Pat Paulsen says:

Interesting pictures, taken last year? nothing
fake looking there.

From the smiles on your faces, the relationship
will survive, unless you wander...sorry, but our
egos do always get in the way, no?

She looks like a keeper to me.
Bon chance, Austin.

Pat

TANAI KWAI says:

Same same but always fascinating.

(...)

PhilG says:

Nice pics, bro!

Looks like a teen whore to me.

Wait and the guy looks old enough to be her grandfather.

Wait a sec.

Oh, whoops, sorry...had to skim through the zillion repetitive messages about belly button lint and other minutae here to find the gist of this and figure out what's going on.

She IS a whore and he is old/ugly enough to be her grandfather.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Captain America says:

Thanks pat. Pics from this week.

Phil,

Many people who lack your limited view of beauty marry, quite happily. They find each other attractive, help each other, support each other. it is a subtle nuance, perhaps one which does not interest you. I am quite certain you are a 6' 4" adonis, with a lovely maiden of some noble blood, and a life that most Kings would envy. But given your good fortune, and propensity to read columns mostly devoted to Thai bar girls-mayhap you could show a little empathy for those of us with mortal genes?

Thanks.

CA

Ragtopmuse says:

CA seems sincere and sweet as saccharin as well. But MangoSauce seems an odd choice to chronicle ones journey. Prior to the pictures being posted I was convinced CA was a 38 year old feminist from Maine with a vivid imagination; kinda like the German cover guy this month.

CA - As erudite as you are you will be familiar with Billy's quote. "Me thinks that thou protest too much." And all that it implies. In this case why not take your sappy story to family and friends? As my former South American girlfriend once so accurately reported to me, "All men are perverts." Since MangoSauce is composed of mostly 'All men', why not take your story to a soap opera blog where it will be more fully appreciated. I'm with DOngwater on this one. But like the T.V. I can choose not to watch/read I suppose.

Greg/CA- As a man married to a wonderful Thai woman myself - (I'll spare y'all lthe details fellas) traveling the first two years is no problem at all.

Chok dii CA and goodbye.

Captain America says:

The bard was once friend. Sappy? Why, because I prefer to fuck one woman? And, i was under the impression that chronicles, epitaphs, experiences, positive and negative were welcome.

I have hopefully made a few readers feel a bit more comfortable with their decision, maybe a few others have realized their fears are shared by others. Not sure. But i do take great umbrage to being told to post elsewhere. so along with my cancer causing lump of saccharin, might I respectfully tell you to fuck off Rag? Yea, I think I might...

CA Homeward Bound...but it no longer feels like home.

Pat Paulsen says:

Captain, you survived the "Cousin Brucey" test.
(Cousin Brucey didn't, he got old and fugly!)

I remember when I was a kid, (cue golden sunsets,
birds chirping in the background). I listened to
WABC radio out of NYC on the little transistor radio.
I was a devoted 7 y/o fan to "Cousin Brucey," a great,
great radio show during an explosive musical era:
Motown, Elvis, Dylan and the Beatles. Anyway, after
years of listening to this guy I finally SAW him on a
TV show and it was devastating: his voice and face
were such a mismatch to my expectations, and six
years of listening, I think I swiched radio stations.

But, we all get older, you found a keeper, made
the commitment; and you could do ALOT worse!

So, onward CA...it takes a super-hero.

Pat

Pat Paulsen says:

Btw: I can picture what some of the other posters
look like: TK- squeaky clean; Greg- probably a
bit shaggy; Dana- impatient Southie in a Camaro;
I look like Pat Paulsen, so they say, etc, etc.
Not knowing, and seeing, is blissfull enough.

Pat

Johnny Havemates says:

I'm with Raggers on this one ... Pass the remote.

Anonymous says:

Attn: Mr. Paulsen

As to what I look like I'll save you the speculation: I am the standard by which all other men are measured--emerald eyes, jet black straight back hair, high cheekbones, mahogany chiseled face, wasp waist, big hands and feet, long tight flat stomach, wide pecs and lats and shoulders, ripped whippet thighs, gun metal grey gold flecked irises, stone hard ass, succulent pussey.

TINGTAWNG says:

Hey Cap'n! I welcome your candid thoughts and open diary; you are the sacrificial lamb in some people's eyes (putting into open forum rather intimate thoughts that trigger at least deja-vu in some of us).

Everyday there are plane-loads of sex tourists entering Thailand; the unrealistic: those who believe an 18 year old farm girl from Issan is going to fall madly in love with a 55 year old pervert from Wigan. Then there's the realistic punters who realise that loneliness is merely a lack of opportunity to connect, coupled by low self-esteem. Thailand offers plenty of opportunity to make connections....it's a country of catalysts, life changes. Nobody goes home the same. We all go home with a new take on loneliness, and a new take on relationships.

CA, you're like one of those crazy dare-devil men you see on TV, climbing without a rope up a skyscraper in the snow. Some guys are yelling at you to climb into the nearest window, but you don't have to listen to them. You might make it to the top, you might fall. But something will happen.

nick adams says:

captain,

i've been following your story for a while now, and like most, i doubted your story at the beginning. i believe you now, though. shit, man, you got the resources, you're willing to thrown them around; you seem to know what you're playing at so good on you. ignore the fuckos who tell you to post elsewhere, because i for one want to know how this one turns out. someday if i get rich and fifty-something, i'll want to be like you.

ze stiick says:

"..black straight back hair, high cheekbones,
mahogany chiseled face, wasp waist," - etc, etc.

Attn: Dana

When you bought the new mirror at Wal-mart, you
were supposed to remove and throw away the plastic
wrapper, AND the boy-toy picture model inside frame.

Writing during your medication cycle is okay. Quit the
other substance(booze fired-agonist). You won't see
the results for six weeks, but it's worth the wait.

Motivation arises out of hunger for, rather than excess
of good times; so stop beating yourself for a change.
Living well is your only best chance for revenge. Start
believing again. Impossible? do it vicariously then.

You'll be tapping that "reservoir" in a few weeks,
right? so save up now while there's still time.

(space available: creative ego leaving town in need of self esteem)

Captain America says:

In LAX, and grateful for the discourse. Pro and Con. I am a fucking american, with a purported love of debate, and the precepts of freedom.

I like the analogy, yp the building I go. Heck, she loves Spider Man so i had best not take this metaphor further.

She just called me, to let me know she waits to be with me in america. And is suddenly lonely. She had a great time. So did I. I do not want to be in my own country. Do not want to go back to work. I want that house in Chiang Mai. The head Cathay stew in 1st class was from Chiang mai, she now lives in HK. We chatted for a long time, she looked at scores of pictures. I think she knew the background, despite my artifice (nice girl from Ubon). She commented on the age difference, and reiterated it would not matter. Love her. Respect her. support her. Take care of the children. Do not stray. She told me God had blessed me, and gave me her e-mail. Dang. All those years as an agnostic, and now this.

I do not mind those who say feeble things, they obviously have a checkered past, or grave insecurities to prey on the happiness of others. I wish you all well. For those of you with soft hearts, who still believe, hope springs eternal. As does my little lady.

BTW, for the prurient. Despite prejuem duen, I suspect i was tumescent for about 70% of this trip! I do not take any pharmacopia, and prior to meeting her was starting to wonder if the old pumps were slowing down. Nope, the Beastly Bitches of North America were the problem.

Our final meal together was a ton of seafood, and a nice dose of sticky rice with mango. As good as the food was on Cathay, I still remember her cutting my food, picking the best bits for me, and her kissing me ON THE LIPS in Don Meung. jeez, first time in March she would not even hold my hand in there.

America will be good for her. And she will be good for me.

Shit, 4 weeks till I see her again...

Captain America says:

Dear XXXXX.
I come back to room. It make me sad. yesterday you
stay with me. have your bag in room. have your shoes.
every day sleep with you on the bed. but today every
think I do alone. when I go shower I see your
toothbrush. you khow how I feel. Hunny I miss you.
you remember? I call you often.
I will try every thing. for me and you to be
together. I love you hunny. I trust you. and I want
you trust me too.
your wife wait you here. every thing don't worry .
your wife good girl.
teeruk I hope you safety your travel. miss you
rakon ..... XXXXX

OK, off to Dallas! She is a good girl. I love her.

Eddie Murphy says:

Cap'n

Good luck indeed. a 45 year old man attempting to import a 20 year old uneducated up country girl, registered as a BG, in a post 9/11 environment.

When her visa is denied go out and buy yerself a Porshe and then tell us all about it, you middle age crazy bastard.

TANAI KWAI says:

Greg,

"That's not irony?"

Nope. Just pedestrian sarcasm, I'm afraid.

Captain,

Thanks for your kind words.

That said, I was extremely perturbed to discover you have access to my email. Next time you want to borrow one of my TGF's letters could you please ask?

Have another book for you: "Thailand Joy" by David Young. Just finished it and think you'll enjoy it. It's available here:

http://www.dco.co.th/product_info.php?cPath=85&products_id=87

The first 150 pages or so are the strongest but the remainder would perhaps be the most edifying.

Eddie,

"a 45 year old man attempting to import a 20 year old uneducated up country girl, registered as a BG, in a post 9/11 environment"

Helpful hint: this is no problem if your best friend is a Congressman with oversight over such matters. If the Captain were to go through his Government Relations Director at his company I suspect some similar consideration could be obtained -- and without marriage.

(...)

Frankie Fine says:

Clearly stupidity knows no bounds.

Who you know don't mean jackall shite in getting US visas these days.

I got friends with PhD's who've lived in NYC for 10 years, have lawyers on retainer, etc. and still can't fucking Green Cards.

And what is with this Cap'n's serious low-self esteem and need to impress. What IS so impressive about any of this. All fairly run of the mill stuff and low class if you ask me (including his net worth). What IS going on bros?

I thought this was supposed to be a fun website, not a place for some middle-aged fart to ramble on with his version of love poetry, drop "name brands" like Nike (ooo, im so impressed) and try to convince us of his first class lifestyle.

Please!

If this guy is so great, why is he trying to import and uneducated prostitute to the US?

David says:

I had to close this thread because it's way too long.

Part one of this article has plenty of space for new comments.

http://www.mangosauce.com/archives/000064.html

rich says:

An intriguing love story by CA. I wish I knew how it worked or is working out.

I am that 52 year old man and this kindles a nearly extinguished dream in me. I do not have nearly the finances of CA.

john colins says:

you are a genius, open the dickheads eyes i love how u write, i shagged a lot o so called good thaiwifes here in europe.