Bar girl in suburbia #2: Back to prostitution

DaveMcK says:

Squandered on gambling and high living? SQUANDERED?
you've gone mad

mr peter says:

I don't see how the law could be on her side if she buggers off in under the 2 year settlement visa period, maybe after that. I don't know anyone this has happend to, but would be interested to hear-peter

Charlie says:

I think Dave has got the whole scene sussed out but there are exceptions. My girl has several friends who live in different parts of Farangland, they are quick to establish a network and can make you a bit para.They love the phone. From what I can gather, they usually bang on about food. My girl has a job and can get about the city and communicate fine. She has been in Farangland for 2 years and was buzzing her tits off the other day when she finally got to get out into some proper snow. She does not smoke cigarettes or gamble, she will however, drink a melon bacardi breezer, and we all know how pricey they can be.

stu_$ says:

wow, this article is turning me a bit paranoid ,
but how much paranoia is enough...?
i laughed when CHARLIE mentioned
"bacardi breezers" , my thai gf drinks them
and they sting like a bee when you get cheq bin !
apart from that mine is not like this girl...but she has mentioned that when i'm in LOS, if i want to buy a house
she says " you giv house me name "
hmm..., should i be nervous ?
stu_$

skm says:

stu_$
Of course you numb-nut farang boy! Not just nervous......what comes next would be the gold bracelet......or have you gotten that already?
skm

Cynic says:

The problem is that most Farang men of the marrying breed have been pussy-fied so badly that these bar ho's will eat 'em up. Shit, most of them were fucked up by frigid white heffers in the first place, what's a hot, sensuous Thai broad gonna do to 'em?

Papa says:

If I am to marry a Thai girl (bar girl or not) going back to Farangland would be out of the question.
All the above are reason enough and come down to common sense.
If anyone wants to marry then work out a way to stay in Thailand. It would be better for you both.

JDMAN says:

I agree with Papa. Stay in Thailand for various reasons and if possible don't marry her. She will be happier there because they love their country, culture, king, family and friends. All the things David outlined will likely make her unlikely to adapt to Farangland. If she does manage to adapt. Then other things will likely happen. I personally fear the "run away with a new farang boyfriend scenario". If the bar girl adapts enough to be comfortable in Frangland, then she will be increasing desirable to younger, well-heeled farangs who see her as a rare young exotic girl that is far sexier than the female farang whales they are used to chasing. They will want to help her escape the old geezer she is married to. This seems less likely to happen in BBK for example because the young studs have plenty of unattached Thai girls to go after. In addition, the ex-bar girl in Thailand always will know that if she screws up there, her farang boyfriend or husband could easily bounce back with the female smorgasborg available there and dump her. Competition by younger girls will probably keep her in the nest and motivate her make her man happy if he is a good provider. Even if she needs a young Thai boyfriend on the side, he will also probably want her to stay with her farang boyfriend/husband because she will be feeding him her spare cash. So over all if the goal is to keep the girl, the chances would be best to set up house in Thailand I think.

ADONIS IN UK says:

BLOODY HELL LADS!! im going through the joys of arranging everything for wedding etc now im bloody paranoid it will all be a waste of time!! PLEASE someone post a really sweet, successful post on how it worked out for them and wife in farangland!! sod it off to bungee from my roof with no bungee cord as in pattaya bungee club.

Captain America says:

After availing myself with all the negative posts pertaining to farang/bar girl relationships, it was extremely hhard for me to follow through on my fairy tail romance. To all of you who feast on the misery of others, here is an early warningÖthis is a happy tale!

My best friend, annd former boss while I was at Apple Computer married a Thai lady about 12 years ago. We all broke apart in 2000, when the stock hit $150 US. He not only made a tidy sum at Apple, he also learned a company he had started in India many years earlier was going public. Suddenlyy, my blue collar boss was worth over $100M. His wife, from Ubon asked him to build a high school in her small village. For $150k, why not?

For three years, he implored me to go there to teach. The evil Swedish bitch I was married to would here none of that. Men work, so that she could run 10 miles a day, watch TV and get stoned in the evenings. Oh yes, she also had an affair. In 2002, my 14 year marriage ended. I did what any man would do, wennt in thhe garage, turned on the Mercedes, and learned those fuckers make such clean burning engines that death was not an option! OK, well, had better become an Ironman triathlete instead. I did.

In march of this year, I finally traveled to Thailand. I was planning on taking a 6 month sabbatical. I have a great position, with a major multi-national. No problem. Also, I live a clean, clean life. No drink. Nothing but soy milk, sushi, Clif bars.

I get in to Bangkok after 24 hours of flying, and my friend takes me immediately to Nana Plaza! First he scares the shit out of me in a ketoy bar! Then, his favorite hauntÖG-Spot. I have not been with a hooker in 25 years. Not my cup of tea, I like the chase.

I'm exhausted, and not happy to have to drink. Hell, I just want to go to Phuket and swim and jog! The Mamasan knows my friend well. She starts bringing ladies to me. Tall. Short. Thin. GORGEOUS! I was married to a big Swede, now blue yes make me sick!

Finally, a VERY shy, small, adorable girl sits down with me. Won't even make eye contact. Mamasan tells me, if she is not nice to me to tell her. I assume (correctly) she has not been in Bangkok very long. I put my hand on her knee, she moves away! Was staying at The Landmark, and had no idea about bar fines, or even if these were hookers or dancers. Neophyte. My friend leans over, tells me not to worry about anything, and take her home. ìShe is fresh meat.î Now I feel like a perv.

I whisper to her, would she like a massage? She spoke very little English, but said ìThai massage?î I said no, American massage! Big smile. I waited an eternity for her to come back, seemingly all showered and looking like a beautiful, little girl. We went back to the Hotel, and I showered. She was still dressed when I got out, and I told her it would be hard to massage her with jeans on! She went in the bathroom, came out in every towel in the place, and ran under the covers! After using all the lotion in the room, I was near animal like an hour later! My God, what beautiful skin color, ìgonî (butt), and hair! Still all black, and innocent.

I finally got my knees between hers, and she screamed ìkondohmî at the top of her lungs! I went down on her for nearly 30 minutes. She seemed to enjoy herself. I tried again without the kondowm, to no avail. When I entered her, she gasped, and it seemed to hurt. No oral for me! ìSmoking,î as I now know it to be called! She had never done it.

I went back the next night. And the next. Much better love making, and she had an English (Angkrit) textbook. With the 10,000 baht per night I was giving her she had invested. She knew a few cute phrases. She said DARLING, not teerok! I hate the word teerok.

I went to Ubon Ratchathani, and spent five days in Phuket. I missed her. With two days left, I flew to Bangkok and rushed over to G-Spot. There she was, 12:00 at night an not bar fined. No surprise, she was not the pushy, sexy sort. Quietly beautiful, but austere by Thai personality standards. We had an amazing two days. Saw the River. The temples. She is educated, high school degree with ahigh GPA. 20 years old.

When I got home, we e-mailed every day. I sent her 80,000 baht and asked her to quit work. My friend hired an investigator, she had indeed quit. No Thai boyfriends. ONLY time she saw a farang was when her friends had their faens take them to dinner (as I had done, platonically for her friends). No marriages in her past. No problems with police. She is very healthy, eating seafood, fruit, and MK almost exclusively. No burri or ganja. I liked that.

I flew back a month later. Got the Presidential Suite at a gorgeous resort in Khoa Lok, and a nice suite in Phuket. She slept a lot, was afraid of the farangs, and enjoyed meeting some ex-pat friends I had made at Faulty Towers near the Ex-pat Hotel in Patong. She thought their talay salad was number 1! I fell DEEPLY in love with her. I am 43. In awesome shape. Not the world's handsomest guy, but enough to have five girlfriends back in Texas. Post divorce, I am still very successful. I have never cheated on a woman in my life, and never will. She trusts me. Mostly, she trusts me not to LEAVE her with kids some day. Her biggest, biggest fear.

I tried to take her to Tokyo two weeks ago, I was there on business. Bought her a first class ticket, but a little of her slothfulness meant that she could not get a travel VISA to japan on time. I had four days with her in Bangkok. Got her a new apartment, not that the 5800 baht per month dive she shared with her friend to save money was not lovely! I bought her a computer, and a full time English teacher. A good one. Four months later, her English is amazing! She has ADSL now, and an Apple iSIGHT attached to her Powerbook. We videoconference, and she is quite savvy. Many trips to Panthip and she has more programs on her computer than I do!

She wants to be an accountant. I have filed the Fiancee VISA application, and her interview is approaching. I have been to her village, and had fun with her family. I want to shoot the mother, because she has told me about her origin in this life. She hung her head, and said ìthis is where my mother send me.î As you know, it takes strength for a Thai girl to say that. Oh well. She was there 6 weeks. Her virginity was lost to a nice Japanese man, who came to get her every night for the first three weeks. She was bar fined about 10 times after that. Mostly ìnice men.î It hurts me. But some how, not too badly.

I go back in two weeks, for two weeks of holiday. We are getting married in her village, Thai style. I am giving her family (unbeknownst to them) 500,000 baht. Significant money to me, but not too bad. She will be going to University in America. I have enjoyed DRAGGING her to Emproium, having her gush as they addressed her as ìKhunî at The Conrad. At having my wealthy Mom hang up on me. At having my friends alternately call me crazy, or the luckiest man on Earth. I live very vicariously through her young eyes, and will teach and learn from this remarkable lady. She is strong, proud, soft, sensitive, caring, and makes me the best khou mow ma meung (sticky rice with mango and coconut sauce!) in the world. My favorite. She irons my shirts before I get dressed, even though they have already been pressed by the hotel. She thinks I am handsome, hung like a horse, and has made me forget about work, working out 5 hours a day, and the past. She makes me sabaydee! And you know what, all you skeptics? I make her very happy. Socio-biology tells us men crave beauty and sex, women security and stability. It helps kids get born, reared and be healthy in life. This is that and more. I never had children, but will with her. I can't wait. She wants to get her degree first, but offered to have them soon if I want. Everything, is ìup to you!î

I have purchased 58 gram, GoldMaster 24k chains and bracelets for her. Brought her 7 and Diesel jeans from the US. Bought her friends gifts as well, they are great girls and take care of each other. I admire these bar girls far more than the :to the manor bornî sluts that I have dated and married. I still have great appeal for America, AND have opened my eyes to a new way of life in Thailand. It ain't perfect. But we talk about everything. Blending our cultures. Using the best of both. I told her, mai pen rai doesn't cut it in Texas! We fix shit when it is broken. She has taught me the shear joy of lying in bed with her, for 12 hours in Phuket, snuggling and watching TV. I have patiently taught her the joys of farang food, clothes, TV, literature, engineering prowess. My gifts to her have been functional, except for the gold. Digital cameras, and a book on using Photoshop on the Mac. How to invest in stocks. She has a TD Waterhouse account waiting for her now. She picks the stocks, and has learned the McClellan Oscillator!

We get married in America in November, if all goes well with Homeland Security and Immigration. We are hiking in Chiang Mai on the next trip. She had never been on a plane when I met her. She is going to see the big, beautiful world. I saved her, and she has saved me. From inanity, a mundane existence. The monotony of ìsuccessî in farang land.

I have never asked the investigator to stop. Even told her I did it. She said good, that way I would trust her from the mouth of another. I put a program on her computer to take her Yahoo password. She e-mails me, and her mother. I asked a friend to decipher the letters to Mom. She loves me. Is afraid to leave Thailand, but knows it is good. Thinks GOD sent me to her. Funny, so do I. And I thank him every day.

Friends, there IS LOVE to be found in those stygian depths. I will never see any of you in Nana Plaza, as my time there was the jackpot of my life. But I hope you will not be jaded, and will realize bar girls are human beings. They love. They hurt. They do not hate farangs. I talk with her friends, some of whom have seen us together and have left the life. One told me, at 23 her heart was growing black. She works as a sushi waitress now. Has a faen in California, an airline pilot. She loves him, and I believe her. He is married, but I pray he marries her instead. She is a sweet girl.

I will update this. Maybe it will all blow up? I don't know, but I know that the mountains we climb in Chiang Mai are just the first tough steps we take together. But I DREAM of her graduating for the University of Texas. Of our first child together. And of making her happy. Of that big smile, and at having done some good. I guess I won't be teaching English in Ubon just yet, but this might just be betterÖ

Good luck gentleman, remember, respect them and they just might respect you.

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain & fellow Longhorn...

Please contact me offline if you would be so kind.

(...)

John U says:

Captain,

A fabulous story, and thanks for sharing it with us.

You did have a lot of luck finding your lady the first night, and she being newish to the game.

Most of us catch them too late after their heads have been turned by money, late nights and drinking. :<(

Looks as if you also had a good P.I. :<)

Do you mind sharing him with us?

Cog says:

"All my exs live in Texas,
And Texas is a place I'd dearly love to be.
But all my exs live in Texas
And that's why I hang my hat in [THA-AI-LAND]". ;)

Captain, great story. Choak dee khrap!

Jonny says:

Gimme a break. Yeah, write to us in 5 years, that is IF the fools at US immigration actually let you bring her there.

tonychang says:

captain
you couldnt lend us a few thousand baht could ya??

Captain America says:

Thanks guys, I do feel fortunate. Jonny, by the fifth year of my farang marriage I was hoping she would steal my money and leave! :-) As for the immigration dudes, honesty is the best policy. If she can't come to the US, I am happy to move to Thailand, Cuba, Ecudor, whatever it takes. Although, I do want her OUT of thailand.

Some of my real fears are more mundane. How will she adopt to a new place? Will she be happy? Can she attend and compete on a University level? Will the dietary changes bo hard on her? You know, basic blocking and tackling.

One of the readers suggested off line to me that 500,000 baht was waaaay too much, and I agree. I will now tone it down to 100,000 baht. All of my flights there, the lavish gifts, the apartments, the fancy hotels have added up! Thos little bahts can turn in to $1000's US in a snap!

Jonny, why so vituperative? You have a bad experience? Hate to see another happy? Hate women? Men? Misanthrope? Cheer up dude, what happens in my life has no bearing on yours. Or perhaps, if you had one bad experience you should jump back on the horse. Rest assured, if my tale turns sour I will share with everyone here. It could. I always have my doubts.

The private investigator is a gal and her team who worked for my friend years ago, when he started a company in Chiang Mai. They actually install wireless LANs in buildings in Bangkok now, but using their extensive network were able to track my lady's every move! Even her bank account, and every time I sent her 40,000 baht indeed 20,000 went to Mom upcountry. Hell, by my estimates her Mom has more money than me now!

Just got off the phone and then chat with her. I am so baa tanhaa I could explode!

Peace.

jdman says:

Nice story CA,

The age differance is about the same so I hope it works for you (gives me hope) but mine was (is ) in the business 8 years longer (forever). See "I want our baby now". Oh well, I feel the same way about her and only feel I could safely marry her as you plan. You also seem very savy about Thailand for only being there once before finding this girl. The PI right a way etc. Amazing. I guess I'm a slow learner.

Please keep us informed as to how it is going. I know I need advice (lots of it).

all the best to you and your young lady.

Chok dee khrap!

JDMan

Bruce Mangosteen says:

The comment was made in the thread JDMAN refers to that happy farangs in Thailand comprise the "silent majority". That seems to be true. Thanks for breaking the"'white wall of silence"! :)

My opinion is that you appear to be flexible enough to return to live in Thailand with your girl if she can't adjust to the Western world. That might be your ace in the hole, harking back to David's original posting.

By the way, one thing got me a bit curious: she e-mails her MOTHER? This seems a bit odd to me. My GF's mother can barely answer her cell phone!

Best of luck. Yes indeed, keep us posted.

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

Had read your thread the other day, and feel a certain kinship with you! You excoriated the naysayers through honesty, and sincerity. I wish you well. Take a chance. Remember, "it is not the top, but the side of the mountain that sustains life." Enjoy the journey, if it ends with no children, or heartbreak do it all over again. Nothing worse than being alone in the world.

I was not that prescient, or savvy! march was my first time there! My friend and former boss; however, had been married to a Thai lady for over a decade. he had seen the landscape, the blood on the tracks. He INSISTED we investigate. I am thankful he did.

Mango,

My future mother-in-law is pretty young, is adroit with a cell phone, and goes in to "town" twice a week. First stop? Internet cafe! Seems she loves getting pictures e-mailed! She was so happy when I purchased a laptop for her daughter. Then a digital camera. A camcorder. A DVD player. A dye sub printer for photos. I never showed her daughter how to work these things, and the directions are in Angkrit (except for the DVD player). She had to master everything.

My mother-in-law is now living with my fiancee in my apartment. Why? to make sure she stays a good girl! I swear, i trust her more than her Mia!

I will be back in LOS August 4th, staying for two weeks. My vacation time is running low! Hopefully, she will be here by late October. We are starting in San Diego, then LA, San Fran. Down to Tucson, across to Austin (home), New orleans, Miami. Next trip, NYC to visit my family. I want her to choose where we live. I hope she does not pick Miami! San Diego would be my choice, or stay here in friendly Austin. I love her, and want her to be happy. I can always adjust. Culture shock scares me. I went beserk on Wireless Road last trip. My limo crashed. Left my four pieces of heavy luggage on the street! I had to carry all four, as the three girls just sort of looked shell shocked. i got hot. VERY hot! She insists i wear long sleeve shirts, long pants. Four taxis could not fit my big bag. I hit a lamppost! Dumb. Lost face. Guess what? I'm an american, we gain face when we get upset! she understood, and recognized one or two expletive deleted's!

I'm rambling, 'tis late.

JDMAN, save her heart. Treat her with kindness. if she rejects it, you can still be proud. Love does not know the past, only today and the future.
CA

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Cheers. All the best.

turn on says:

Captain America :

I'd like to wish you the best of luck , you have my sincere admiration for rescuing a TG from the P4P scene.

You obviously have high career ambitions, I hope your wife will appreciate these and support you in your efforts.

One of the most common reasons for divorce relevant to my friends, is the wife's inability to understand and support her husbands career ambitions . Generally, wifes' cannot understand why husbands stay out late at the office and sometimes work on weekends, they regard such behaviour as pure male selfishness and accuse the man of placing his career above his family life. I certainly hope this doesn't happen to you.

My, very personal problem with the average Thai
lady that I meet; is that there is very little that is common between us , other than sex. I've had a reasonable college & professional education and have worked extensively in Europe, the middle east and in Asia. To me, the average Thai girl that I meet has somewhat limited vision and ambitions that are very different from mine, she cannot understand (for example) why one should enjoy a moutaineering holiday in (say) a remote country like Nepal. Neither can she understand things like (say) classical music, or even good jazz , that leaves sex and THAI food as the only areas of Commonality .

I completely understand and appreciate the fact that there are very many Thai ladies who like Vivaldi, will swoon at a Mozart piano concerto and have read Voltaire, BUT the chances of the average foreigner meeting them, let alone having a relationship with them, are really non existent .

My own , very personal, view regarding the reasons for Thai farang marriages going sour is that there is a tremendous gulf in values and in culture, between the two individuals. I don't think that it is a matter of love alone - one can LEARN to love quite a few people, but one can never get into the minds of certain individuals and understand what makes them tick and this is precisely what successful relationships are all about.

Again , you have my very best wishes - I hope that other Thai girls get as fortunate as your Thai lady.

Jonny says:

Say again, gimme a break. "Let the fleecing begin!" Oh, wait, it has already it seems.

Captain America says:

Turn On,

You have hit onsome of my deepest concerns. I am sitting in Boston, waiting to meet business associates for dinner. Just got in. Beautiful day. The history. The verdant NorthEastern summer. Probably all temporarily lost on my spouse to be. HOWEVER, she has shown remarkable interest in "seeing the BIGGG world." Her words. She is excited about a day hike we are taking in chiang Mai in a few weeks, to see the Hill People. She knows their history, their origins. Yes, my little vixen might just have more to offer me than a honeypot.

Now, mind you she can watch those twittering Thai soaps till time stand still! I can not imagine her reaction to Mahler's 3rd, but I have already picked out a lovely dress for her...and we will go to Davie Hall in SF for her first taste of ancient farang culture. She might hate it all. She might cry for months in the lovely Texas Hill Country. Heck, I was going to teach in Ubon and it scared me senseless! I understand. And will be gentle, and patient.

This might sound utterly fanatical, especially because most of my life has been spent in scientific agnosticism. But I asked God what to do a few months back. I knew the struggles I would face. She would face. I'm a genuinely good guy, and want her to be happy. I listened for an answer, and the answer was you will both be happy, and do much good for others in this union. Came to me clear as a bell.

I can subjugate my trips to Carnegie Hall. I can live with a few hundred thai DVD's polluting my plasma screens, and her music rattling the tubes on my all analog audio equipment from France! Mai pen rai! My own culture is wonderful, but unlike most thai peasants I do not defend it as the end all and be all of human existance. neither does my lady for her own race. She is a definate Thai Rak Thai zeolot, but knows it is something she must change. I guess maybe that is it, this little package of beauty is morphing, growing, changing, enjoying the challenges before her. She told me, "I am proud of what I am doing." (alas as she failed the TOEFL test for the second time!). And I am very, very, very proud of her.

My first wife came from a pedigreed family. Daddy was a Sr. partner for a big 6 accounting firm. She knew music, had lived in Paris and gothenberg and knew great food and wine. We did all the right things together. And all I had at the end of my second or third bottle of Chateau Latour was indigestion, and a $700 bill. That same $700 is helping her dad go to cooking school in Bangkok. he can't weld because of shoulder surgery (yes, I saw the scars and everything!). The ex helped my career. Big blue eyes, gorgeous cheek bones. Met her when she was 21, and time stood still for me. Same with my new lady (except now it is 23 years, not 6 that seperate us!).

To get to my point, if it fails...it fails. I can not, will not worry about that. I will be devestatingly sad if it does. I get more enjoyment out of sitting and doing hher English lessons with her than boom booming one of the wettest nether regions I have ever been privy to! Honestly, when I returned after the first trip, and finally peeled off all the towels (in thhe dark!), entered her, I assumed she must be having her period and flowing all over the Conrad's down comforter! Nope, she was in the right line of work...she likes sex with farangs! But that fades. The giant Swede's appeal did as well. I love the heart of this little girl. The giving nature. The simple things. I think I have reached that mystical point in my life, where I have NOTHING to prove to my friends, to my peers or to me. Nothing too prove to her. I like myself. I treat people well. And if all I get on my next trip is "this sure is a beautiful mountain darling, thank you for showing me Chiang Mai." I go home sabaydee. Well, I lied. I fully expect more sticky rice with mango and coconut sauce!

Peace to all. Jonny, I'll say a prayer for you my friend.

CA

Captain America says:

One last thing! The other day I had to offer Macintosh tech support, at about .30 cents/minute to my darling. One of her friends had brilliantly installed a virus laden program, and I had to help her reformat the drive, update her e-mail and .Mac accounts, and re-install programs.

It took HOURS! "No, the blue apple. yes, the word right next to the other word. Quit means end. Launch is like start. OK, please pick up the dictionary. Maybe we had better do this next year! How come we click on the same same thing but you never see what I see?" yep, 'twas a blast I tell you!

the next day, she sends me the sweetest thank you note, and apologizes for driving me ting tong! My friend, who has been married to a Thai lady (plain looking, older than him, never was a BG) has never heard a thank you! I feel really blessed. My lady is small town, but her manners are impecable. She does take an uncommon joy in announcing to me that she has stunck up the bathroom, or a rather loud belch when a great room service meal has left her happy. But we can work on those things back in Texas.

Honestly, I will update as long as there is interest. I will be unflinchingly honest. if I get fleeced, hosed, dumped, robbed, violently attacked, I'll let you know if I'm still alive! this is the most novel thing I have ever done in my life, and despite my corporate imprametuer I have been very unconventional!

Here is a quote from the Dali Lama:

"Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk." amen Dali-man.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Concerning the travel, etc., I would simply advise that you don't make her feel trapped. Let her come and go for a while if that's what it takes for her to acclimatize.

Mine has been with me to China, Singapore, and South Korea. Not the US yet. China and South Korea were to accompany me on jobs lasting a month or more (the China job lasted several months). I always tell her, "Go home whenever you are ready; I'll be with you soon anyway." The length of time she says in these places gets longer and longer, but has never exceeded three weeks. She wants to be in Thailand. And, so do I!

By the way, South Korea was as cold as a witch's tit, and the GF shook it off admirably. In fact, she seemed to like the cold, and was undeterred when I was shivering!

She might not be able to live in the USA all at once. Give her slack, let her adjust, let her go home to Mom sometimes. If she doesn't feel trapped, I expect she'll eventually stay.

On the subject of shared interests: I'd much rather learn about a mysterious person than sit in silence with one similar to me. Besides, I am just not convinced that men seek the company of women because of intellectual stimulation. If I want my intellect stimulated, there always The History Channel!

Jonny says:

Yes, CapDumbAss, thanks for the prayers.

Anyone else notice the immense amount of bragging this guy seems to be doing? Not about the girl of course, as we can all be sure she's nothing to write Buri Ram about.

But he goes on and on, dropping in bits about his plasma screens and all the money he seemed so ready to drop on her family but was so easily talked out of by some random guy he chatted with on here.

Here's my guess.: Typical dude wanking in his basement, living out some fantasy between all his "business trips to Tokyo". Your wife-to-be is a ho, dude and all the polish you put on that turd won't turn it into a diamond. And by turd, I mean the girl but also your actual life, not the fantasy you seem to be projecting.

BTW, yes I do have a PhD in psychology.

Cheers

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Jonny, why don't you use some of that supposed education to figure out why you're being such a gonad? Is there really something that wrong with a person who is trying to be happy?

Psyche-guy, shrink thyself?

Cog says:

"Anyone else notice the immense amount of bragging this guy seems to be doing?"

I noticed...but I'm a sensitive git.

Those "bits" of vanity are quite subliminal, aren't they? Perhaps Khun Pygmalion aka Captain America could think about toning it down while he sips his Chateau Latour and nibbles on caviar hors doeuvres. The Captain must not have learned anything from Ajarn.com.

His use of Thai (i.e. baa tanhaa) tells me he has either been under the tutelage of Buddhist monks, or he has endeared himself to the most sophisticated BG in Thailand.

If he's the real deal, then he's the great white hope...at least for one young Thai Eliza Dolittle. Captain, all the best.

Cog says:

Note: The Ajarn.com reference is insider information. Out of respect for the Captain, I'm not going there...

Jonny says:

Nothing wrong with someone trying to be happy. Even if it means being delusional. But you really think he's happy? Even if his momentary insanity and pride at "rescuing" a village girl trick him into euphoria, he won't be so happy when reality comes crashing down on him. Which, depending on how much of what he's saying is actually true (between 5 and 20% I would guess) will happen either as soon as he logs off from making his next fictional post or as soon as his bargirl dumps him.

Go back to the guy's earlier posts. The divorce stuff. Etc. This is not the picture of a "happy" guy.

Look, I'm all for people trying to make themselves happy. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing around with some bargirls. But this guy's slightly whacked. I've been in, out, and around BKK for years and never met any truly "happy" people who married bargirls (meaning they were not happy before or after). "Happy" people do not marry prostitutes. Sorry, guys. "Happy" people don't generally shag them either. And, I for one, would never profess to being an all that happy guy myself.

And happy people for sure do not make shit up and drop name brand bs anonymously on web sites. These are people with serious self-image issues. Wouldn't call them happy at all.

Case closed.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Fine. We've established that I am right, and in CA we have an unhappy person here who is trying to be happy. It still does not explain YOUR hostility.

Let me read between the lines here if I may: You went through an experience much like CA, but yours ended badly. Maybe more than once. Badly burned. No kids involved, I'll wager.

Unlike some other people's stereotypes of relationships with prosties, you've come by yours due to hard experience. Maybe the rest of us will, too. However, I have a great many friends who are happily married to ex-dancers. We don't care about their pasts.

I have a friend who is married to a lovely ex-dancer and free-lancer, and when people ask him, "How can you be married to her? She was shagged by the whole Pacific Fleet?" he replies, "They all must have mighty good taste in women, then!" Hardly the rejoinder one expects from an unhappy but delusional guy!

Bar girls don't hold the franchise on gold-digging. We understand this, too. The money angle is just something most of us have to put up with whether we marry a prosty or any other sort of girl.

If somebody is careful, and takes his time, and keeps his eyes open, he can find happiness with a bar girl. See the other two JDMAN threads for more on this (Relationships: I want our baby NOW, and its update). If you feel that this option is closed to you for whatever reason, that's OK with us.

Why not examine your hostility in terms of your own experiences, rather than those of CA, me, JDMAN, or anybody else? You might come to terms with them better.

Cheers, and good luck.

Jonny says:

Hey guys.

Actually, like most people here, I was bored and just taking the piss. No, actually, I haven't had all that many bad experiences, most certainly nothing all that cash intensive, traumatic, or that ended badly.

I do wish this guy luck, but christ, from what I've seen in and out of Thailand, it's a tough nut to crack.

Combover says:

Don't think it's hostility - just a little healthy cynicism. I thought the best thing Jonny boy said was his estimate of only 5-20% of the whole shebang being true.

Not sure if I totally agree - CA's stories are very detailed and specific - but the general point is a good one.

And there are a lot of people lurking in cyberspace with very fertile imaginations and no reason to withhold from embellishment of the truth and self glorification. And I certainly wouldn't bet my bargirl's knickers on it being the whole story.

Captain America says:

Gentleman,

'Tis early in Boston, and must drag my addled and resistive body to the local YMCA for a spot of running.

Everything is true, and Johnny is indeed perceptive. I was very unhappy leading up to the divorce 9way too much work, little pleasuure in my life), and darn near suicidal (as indicated) after the divorce. it hurt. EVERYTHING in my postings is true. I made a lot of dollars in Apple options, like most of my lucky bretheren at the time. My allusions to wealth are to make a point, I had the fucking AMERICAN dream in 1999 and 2000. I had never been LESS happy.

In 2004, my love for a sweet, young, pooying with a bespeckled past has me smiling every day. Do I like her shagging past? Of course not, buut is it really different than other women i had been dating in Austin? How many of them slept with fat men to acheive security? How many women are NOT treacherous and manipulative when it comes to our male need for genetic drift? What I care about is her stated desire to see the woorld, continue hher education, and take care of me. So far, she has proven quite honest (and i checked, a right good proctological exam in to her background and foreground).

I have no need to impress folks I know or don't know with tales of wealth or plasma screens. BTW, they are now quite respectably cheap! I have had the best materialistic shit in the world, from foood, to wine, to audio equipment. And i SWEAR, eating sticky rice she has made for me is better. Light years better.

Of course marrying a bar girl, whose family needs the money, who does not make me jump through endless strata of her Cosmo and feminist instigated psychosis is the easy way out. I know that, but I no longer found a single women in Texas, or even California or Arizona who made me care to play the game. Women, apparently have been faking orgasms and love since time immemorial! This beautiful creature makes me FEEL it is all real. The ex never did, but she was attractive, and i was young and wanted the accolades of my peers. Insecurity? Sure. But not this time, her beauty makes me smile. What is left of my former wealth post divorce and fighting a fucked up war in iraq makes her smile. Is it all a lie on her part? What thhe fuck for? I told her, if this is bullshit tell me now, and i will write you a check for a million baht so that you can open thhe rot yon shop you always wanted. She knew I meant it. She is still with me. she wants a nice guuy, who does not cheat, who will help her family, and not run away when she has the children she CRAVES. Guess what, Dr. Johnny, I fit the bill. for real.

So, I have no idea where this ends. For once in my forward looking, miscreant life I do not CARE. today, it is fantastic. if I, or JDMAN get hurt...we will come crawling back on all fours praising your prescient and rather nasty advice johnny.

CA

Captain America says:

My nit noi Thai is a combination of Pimsleur, and Rosetta Stone. With a nice dose of her being a patient little girl, and the two of us sitting on her couch and practicing first English and then Thai. I can't get the damn alphabet down. She studies six hours a day, at a cost of 450/baht hour. There i go, dropping money like a big shot again! Well spent thhough.

so that nobody think me filthy rich, my net worth is about $2M. Down from $6M when 40,000 apple options were worth something. No big fucking deal, I was poor before that an happier. I could lose all my money now, and would welcome it because I could see if she stayed or not. I can always earn more, have a host of degrees that seem to keep me reasonably well employed. I only need a bicycle and running shoes to be happy these days, have not had a bottle of Chhateau Latoru in 3 years!

PEACE, and I bloody well fucking mean that! I am happy guys, and I feel like 19 years old in this relationship. Believe it, or not.

CA

Captain America says:

My spelling sucks, damn keyboard is to blame!

Apologies mates.

mr peter says:

'so that nobody think me filthy rich, my net worth is about $2M'

I consider this amount to be rich, any thai would even more so. You can live for the rest of your life happy ever after in LOS on this, just don't tell the girl the true amount whatever you do. Heck, you could even buy yourself a few siamese cats as well-peter

Captain America says:

mr. Peter,

I was always partial to Burmese cats, but they sure are loud!

Yes, I could well retire to LOS. But i would have nothing to do. I like working, need cerebral density, and do not have enough language skills to keep from going daft the first six months. I also want her away from her friends, no matter how sweet they are the delineation between boyfriend and customer is still slim at best.

If I love chiang mai on this trip, might consider it. I guess I'm not a big city boy, and BKK depresses the shit out of me!

CA

TANAI KWAI says:

"Yes, I could well retire to LOS. But i would have nothing to do. I like working, need cerebral density, and do not have enough language skills to keep from going daft the first six months."

Paging Drs. Greg and Dana. You're needed in E.R. 6 for a discussion about how Thai women are but mere children with limited potential to keep one intellectually engaged.

(Today's weather: partly cloudy with a chance of rain here in Spain.)

Cog says:

^LOL! Perhaps they're stuck in the psych ward?

jdman says:

Had to comment on CA's thread again. I think he is for real and is not BS'ing us. I too see a lot in common between our goals, motivations, expectations, and willingness to take a chance on our BG-GFs. His age gives him more options than I (he could invest 5 years in the girl, get screwed and still be ready for round 2). This may be my last shot at 52 especially if the kid thing comes down. Thus I don't want to be fleeced emotionally or financially. Have to be a little more certain that this is a good gamble. But I appreciate his and others well-wishes. I agree too that Jonny must have a few nightmare experiences to tell us about (his own or close friends). Lot of bitterness there. Be well Jonny.

Somehow I feel less of a need to be intellectually stimulated by my GF than CA. Been there and done that. My girl is clearly not the sharpest pencil while his appears to be ready for Radcliff. She's bright enough though, and has other redeeming characteristics that may or may not be shared by CA's. As I said before ...total package is outstanding and a slam dunk for me. His too seems like a real diamond in the rough.

I might add that having a younger girlfriend(s) motivates in other ways. CA may have always been in great shape. Not so me and marriages is partially responsible for that. They can get you fat and complacent. At my age, one of the most important things for me is being motivated to stay physically in the best shape possible and she definitely provides the positive force for that. Guess having a father die of heart disease comparable young has me worried. If she keeps me alive and healthy for 20 more years I would see that as the score of the century given some of my bad habits.

Like CA my 24 year younger GF makes me feel like a kid again too. Yes Thai girls can be like children and his descriptions of sitting with an English or Thai lesson book does smack a bit at the 'sitting on daddy's lap' and 'bed time stories.' However, we have always been equal participants in sex (like he describes his girl). I don't think there is any form of sick 'pedophilia' that has creeped into my attraction for my girt friend despite the age difference. I actually find the 18-22 year old cuties too pubescent for my tastes. But I can understand his attraction to her given the other descriptors and his younger age. A very nice catch for him indeed. But she will stick out when he is with her in America as will mine. He seems bullet proof to snickers. I'm less sure I can handle that, thus living in LOS seems a safer bet for my own ego....although there have been lots of stares in LOS when we are out too. However some of my friends also told me that while people will snicker over the age difference in the US, most men at least will secretly envy my courage to take this young exotic goddess on and keep her happy. The will tell their wife "he must be a borderline pervert" but will later wank off fantasizing about being in CA's or my own shoes. Fuck'em.

What makes me feel very good about the positive opinions in the thread is how CA (obviously a very intellegent guy) and numerous other very bright contributors to this blog think that long-term happiness is possible with ex-BG's despite major age differences. As long as we are not thinking totally with our dicks, how can all these intelligent farangs with lots of LOS experiences be so wrong about BG-farang longterm relationships, marriage, etc.? The cultures are different yes, but human nature seems to seek out those differences. Maybe it is from millions of years of one tribe pairing off their kids with other tribes without anything more than subtle physcial clues to tell you who might be a good match for whom. A wet pussy and a hard-on are two great clues that a relationship can work.

Long term happiness can be elusive in any relationship. Novelty wears off. Excitement of the chase is loss. Things can get boring. As long as the sex remains good, I think CA has a chance. Once that falls off the charts, my experience tells me that no amount of intellectual stimulation, passson for discovery, common interests, etc. will salvage the relationship.

So CA, Bruce, and the rest. All the best of luck. Cheers!

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

I really appreciate your response, and your current position with your GF. Empathy, and analogous in many ways.

My finacee is not Radcliff material, but much, much smarter and more mature (forward thinking) than hher friends. But even they are nice girls. You said one thing that shows great depth and understanding, women are women. We like to rail against farang women, but their motivations (biologically endemic) are the same. A man they trust. A man to support them. A chance to raise a family, share companionship, show their girlfriends their good luck, and somebody to take care of and cry to. Parodoxically, men are not all that diffrerent.

I worry a lot about my future with this exotic girl. Worry about the cultural differences, the age difference, our educational differences (although she is light years ahead of me when i was 20!), experiential differences, differences in activities deemed fun. I also worried about the same things when I married my wife! She was 21, I was 27! We found a wonderful middle ground.

Last night, she went to a birthday party for her number 2 friend. she got mao. i got jealous. Today, one of her friends brough a customer over to OUR condo. She was honest, told me about it, and claims she did not know he was being buzzed to come up. PISSES me off ROYAL. I was sitting in Boston commons Park, and screaching in Thai about being mai sabaydee! The crack addicts avoided me! :-) So, this ain't all wine and roses. These long seperations are hard. She does not understand that americanns work all day, all night sometimes. Alien concept and construct! I furthher worry, how in God's name will I keep her having sanuk when i need to drive her to study hard, to be constructive while I go on a two week trip. I honestly (foolishly?) do not think she will cheat. I worry ONLY about her happiness, and my ability to provide it. Insecurity? Sure. 20 year olds are fickle beings.

Happy to hear JDMAN is thinking of healthy lifestyle changes to keep up with his lady! Nice, ancillary benefit! In my case, my little cutey is good for five minute of on top thrusting before she crumples in my arms exhausted! I love it, and jokingly told her that each time she has to add 5 minutes so that she can get in to marathon shape! JDMAN, I was in terrible shape 3 years ago. My employer was brutal, and my marriage was failing. I ate to compensate, and worked to hide. When I left her, I got back to my former self and then some. Have always been a top athlete.

I repeat, I am no adonis. handsome? yes. Male model? No. Physical specimen with shirt off, and she loves to trace her fingers over my abdominus rectus, and seems quite taken by both my appendages and pecs. In one of her e-mails, she told her Mom I have good muscles. I'm still smiling!

Repeat, this is the BEST sex of my life. Hard, all the time. She gets sore fast, and I probably have her cervix mapped on me! But she enjoys herself, even dark skin can show a flush. her favorite? On hher back, her hair in my face as we lie in bed. I pull her up and down, and have convinced her it perfect fun to rub herself like a banshee while I am in her and sort of trying to watch! she can do this for 12 hours, and so can I! She is even improving in the "smoking" dept., although she is no pro! A+ for effort.

Yikes, I am rambling again. time to go to dinner soon with an analyst, then a nice drive to NYC. My mother does not know her past, it was enough for her to hear her age and domicile! I want to tell her the truth. I have NO concern whatsoever about appearences in America. Hell, I have always been considered a bit eccentric, and "dare to be different" is a prime maxim. I worry about the effect on her. In a recent e-mail she tells me don't worry, she can go anywhere with me. Long as we are together, and i don't leave her. Job offers came in from Boulder, CO and I explained snow and mountains. She laughed, said "OK, no shower till it get warm!" She means it, we are a team. She excliams, "life is not always a rose garden." Chalat. Mature. Pragmatic. Scared, but commited. I feel so lucky. So alive. And have not been this happy since getting hitchede the first time.

Ramble. Ramble. Women are not always thhe best thing for us guys. I know that. But I would rather have bliss, albeit with the attendant pain with XXXX, then contentment with me, myself and I.

PEACE. Nice to meet you all, and thinks for the diverse opinions.

CA

PS $2M is decent money in Austin, TX...but a pauper's balance in California!

For you who might be american, what city in america do you feel is best for an Isaan Thai lady? Probably LA, but ughhh do I have to? :-)

Dana says:

Hello Captain America--

I'm at the Frog Pond in the Boston Common every Sunday. Contact me if you want to get together.

Dana

jdmsn says:

Hey CA,

Fun post although this crowd can get a little tough on happiness with Thai GF's. Myself, I am hanging with you on the blow by blow (including the smoking) descriptions. I agree with you on that one. In general Thai ladies are not the best in that department although at least it is hard for them to talk on their cell phone with their mouth full. :) But plant them atop a hard dick and they seem to be Lance Armstrong on a bike. It's yellow jersies all the way up and down the course. Have never met a farang girl that comes close from that starting postion compared to my GF. Sweet.

As I said in my original post it has been the best sex I ever had too. Completely fucks your brain when that happens after 30+ years of shagging. But I am serious man. If the sex fall off...its curtains. No hope. No quick fixes. Dump the girl. Two marriages is one more than your life experience but it is tough to get this concept right. It's the first sign and all the rest of the signs are not worth it. Get out fast. If I had known this simple fact I would have not married either of my wives for more than 3 years each. Great sex for a years but when it went south all the rest of the commitment was not worth it and just cost me money. Tried to do the right thing. Wrong.

I have been having a very tough time myself dealing with the separation. As I said, my GF is into sanook too. I am trying to cope but it ain't easy. She is no saint like yours but I also like her wild side so I can't say goodbye yet.

I have got to get to LOS as soon as possible. That is the only way I can survive and keep this together. I actually turned down getting laid tonight by a very cute little 27-something. It was made clear to me over many drinks at a party....if I want her she is mine. I have never turned such a free cutie down before but I didn't want to take a chance of getting trapped in another farang relationship. Do not under-estimate the power of poon-tang. Especially Thai pong- tang.

CA and Dana, I frequently pass through Boston on business. David has my email. Send him yours and he might be so kind to forward it to me. If you want to have drink and talk life, I'm game if I happen to be in town and free. We can eat at Montien near the combat zone. Best Thai food in Boston.

Chok dee khrap!

Bruce Mangosteen says:

Interesting, with my ex the sex was the last thing to go, and I was happily banging away at her various holes long after we'd lost everything else. Her discovery of the TGF put a nail in that one!

Also interesting, my TGF smokes like a trooper, having set herself out to do it right after I complained. Now, after many pleasant coaching sessions her skinflute sonatas are every bit as good as those of any girl I've ever been with, and that's saying something as my ex could suck-start a leaf blower.

On-topic, I would repeat that your best hope for long-term happiness might be to make sure she feels she has the option to return to Thailand to visit when she wants to. Both of you seem to have the means not to worry about a plane ticket. True, the cynics will say that this will give her the opportunity to keep her TBF happy, but you just have to take your chances in this life.

Captain America says:

JDMAN,

Thanks so much for your posts and perspective.

I passed Montien every day i was there, stayed at the DoubleTree near the medical center. My co-workers wanted seafood, seafood and more Legal Seafood. I rarely travel to Boston, and if the pouring rain in NYC does not stop shortly will never travel East again! Besides, my Mother is driving me daft in under one hour. At least I am stealing wireless from her neighbor!

Will chat more during the woork week, and would quite like to meet onne of thhe Americans on the board...but I prefer California or Arizona. Any place dry!

CA

Captain America says:

Bruce,

Imagine this is your forum, so thanks so much for the hard work!

Great advice. She has been promised four trips home a year, a month in December if school is out early. I hhave offered to take her 12 year old sister to America as well, and let her live with us. Might give her some much needed continuity.

One of her friends came over the other night at 2 am for dinner, with a customer. I freaked out. her Mom was asleep. I want her out of that cesspool of a city. Probably sound like an ex-smoker cursing out cigarettes, but I will never acquiesce and say that Thai tolerance of prosititution is mai pen fucking rai. She told me though, and took a ration of shit from me for having done so. I admire that. I am going to put in an excerpt of her e-mail to me...

Dear XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX I want to tell you . I don't khow she come
with man. she not tell me. she finish work she call me
. and ask me . XXXXXX you hungry? she want to come here .
she tell me she buy many thing for eat. I say yes OK
can come.
she come to apartment . she call me again when she
be lobby . want me open the door for come inside . I
go lobby and I see him stay with she. Me angry too!
they come I have to say sawatdee. and my room I
have to take care. If I khow she take man come. I
will say no!
not to long when finish eat she and him say
lakon . I khow you never trust me . you tell me you
trust me. but your hard don't belive me. I tell you
every thing. becuase I want you khow. but make you
think bad for me. I anry too! I try take a good care
for you. for your hard . for we on future.
Why do you think pooying whant sanuk! I khow you
think me same her. she and me not same .
every thing up to you. I can tell you don't worry
about me. but I can't tell your had stop think about
me bad bad bad. bad girl . two time . you don't
understand me . first time your friend XXXX. you khow.
you make me me tried. no power.
I never think go back for work. I khow where I come
from. I no think bar good for me. I don't brith form
good family .
I don't khow my life on future. but I do better for
my life. when arrive I dry.
every think you can belive . you can nobelive.

Bruce Mangosteen says:

CA:

You complement is humbly noted, but alas I can't take credit for this excellent forum. Only some of its posts.

My friend, I can only say (as I would say to some others on this board as well): If you look hard enough for something, you will find it. I would caution against digging too deep into this girl's past OR present. Things are easily misunderstood; if you are given data out of context you risk jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Decide whether you trust her or not. Then, go with that decision. Hopefully, when given a chance, she will live up to your trust. If not, be big enough to recognize this, and move on.

Good luck. Look forward to your postings in other threads as well. There's not enough positive thinking around here lately.

Captain America says:

Bruce,

Has been a tough week for us, my jealousy is driving her a little crazy. Which i can understand. This long distance stuff is driving me nuts, and being around my mother for more than 5 minutes made my mood a bit dark and depressed. She probably does not understand, as life is a constant party for most Thai folks (no matter the conditions, it seems!).

I get to see her in a little more than a week, which will be awesome. She has been buying books on chiang mai, and has actually gone on-line to search out tours, hikes and other fun things. Truly shocked me, as like most other 20 year olds, planning is not her forte!

Have had many discussions about the age difference with friends. My current consensus is this, if we are this happy for even three years it is a victory. The last marriage shattered some shibboleths, not the least of which is "nothing lasts forever." if she hates america, cheats on me, steals my money...life goes on! :-) If she loves america, truly loves me, and actually gets an education and starts a career, that is LIGHT YEARS better than the big, blond leech that slept in my bed for 14 years.

As for the sex, this little girl has one very curious attribute, that I love. She gets wetter than any girl i remember in my fairly illustrious, pre-marriage sexcapades! When she quit the bar in march, took me three weeks to see her the second time. We get to the Conrad, and both take showers. Off go the fourty towels. And I try to place my head between her legs. Nothing of it. She pulls me up, locks those thighs tight! Smiles at me, opens her legs and says "I no boom boom in long time." I slide in to velvet. One of those Kodak moments actually! Later that night, she is on her belly watching TV. I rub her from behind. She gets wetter than a faucet, and two fingers slide easily in to that small crack of honey. I take her from behind, as she cackles on with her Thai shows! The next time I see her in Bangkok, bad time of the month. We just hug for two torture filled days! The third day? I am mounted in Phuket when I wake up. She sits on top, and I slide in to her like 20W50 engine lube! Has not been quite the flowing river the last visit, but that is because I hurt her something fierce after our first, rather less tender ramming.

All in all, when she sits on me, and does the little gyrating gon, 'tis the best feeling in the universe. Best ever in my years of women. How can this be? I had a nice cross section in america, Africa (lived in kenya for a year at age 19), and even a few in Paris.

Thai women rule, damn the torpedos!

TANAI KWAI says:

Captain,

You might enjoy a book previewed here called "Apsara Jet."

(...)

Gimpy1 says:

Tania,

Did you get the sand out of your vagina yet?

I'm still waiting for the gay bashing comments that you claim I make.

Captain America says:

Jealousy. Rather pathetic at my age, and all this for a sweet little lady who wore farang (not sexy) clothes to ther friend's birthday party at RCA. I know, because the investigator asked her to dance! She said no, and refused his drink offer. seems these five girls stuck together, and bought their own drinks. She did dance with a few guys, but went home mao, and with only her friends.

Hmmm, she is the only one in the group who has left the life. One of her friends did a few weeks ago, but seems her japanese benefactor has abondoned her. So, back to Nana Plaza.

Have been doing much rationalizing, introspection, and haranguing on "the life." Let us look at some analogs:

1) My best friend in the US is a female triathlete, who had been married for many years to a pathologist. she is in love with a guy who competes in Austin. he works in a sandwich shop. she has told him, "not you, you do not have enough money for me." Somewhat tongue in cheek, but obviously she means it. Hmmm.
2) When I spent some time on match.com, my profile showed my income (which is very high in Austin). I am no Brad Pitt, but I had a slew of winks, e-mails and admirerers. Could be the muscles and six pack, I feature them. Could be my erudite background. Could be my propensity for travel and to see the world. Could be my love of hiking and nature. But i suspect it was checking that magic income box! Why is that any less or more superficial than a woman doinking a 6' 6" adonis, with not a pot to piss in?
3) Most of the women i dated had children, stretch marks, issues, vendettas. skeletons in their closet, venom in their displeasure towards men. Especially those of us with testosterone. I got laid, a lot. the old inversion of chronology in my age bracket i guess. I got better "smoking," and some very experienced positions. NONE of them made me feel as alive as my little Thai beauty. None had me wake up in the middle of the night, look at her, and think how lucky I was.
4) Men lust for beauty. Women for security. when marriage is considered, each gender relaxes the primary attributes, and fills in other tertiary things. With my fiancee, I get my primary attribute (steal my breath when i look at her), I get secondary (nurturing) and tertiary (smart, ambitious, deferential). Why should I apologize for what i want? women never do!

I ramble, but this Joycian stream of consciousness is what happens when you re-make yourself. Question your precepts. And find the former, sorely lacking. I am living again. Could end next week. One year. 5 years. 10 years. Could end badly, most marriages do. But if she knocks off a graduate degree, speaks wonderful English, and divorces me for the right reasons, I will miss her but smile. I will then move to chiang mai to retire, hike, fuck every day, and do it again.

CA

Greg says:

You make some good points CA. After my last and final serious relationship with an older woman, I was surprised to learn how important looks are to me. Now that I'm older, I stick to the younger women who physically turn me on. Physical attraction counts for a lot. That said, some of the best and most mind blowing sex I've ever had was with a modestly attractive 48 year old woman. A multiple orgasm squirter - quite rare.

Captain America says:

Greg,

Have not had a squirter in years, but a few times my finacee could legitimately called a 'flowing anomoly!"

it is not the sex that matters to me. It is the shocking joy of her on top, my hands on that TINY derriere, her age, the perfect skin, the beautiful color, the sheer femininity of her. She smells good. She takes three showers a day. Brushes her teeth five times a day. Will NEVER get in to bed with me without a shower. Seems to really want me to be happy. Gets mai sabaydee quickly if i work too hard, discuss her life in the bar (I have made it my commitment never to do so again, she curled up out of my arms, and threw herself on to the far end of the bed last time). She wants me to be proud of her.

I needed a tiny photo for the VISA. She took over 30 different shots, all sizes. Dressed very conservstively (which I did not even think to mention). Sent it EMS to me, 440 baht. Had it in 7 days. She wants to come here. Maybe, as Johnny might think...she can't wait to come and get her hands on my real check book. But no, I think she wants to grow. Got this today. I could kill her for inserting terroks, but I know she wrote this herself. When her "sisters" at the Internet Cafe write them, I could puke!

teeruk XXXXX.
I khow you long time . make me khow every think
about you self . you so thing tong .I want to tell you
. I love you XXXXXXXXX. you khow you make thing tong
too! when I here your voice .and when I miss you . I
smile only . XXXXXXX you khow . how much I love you.
How much I miss you. very much very much very much.
forever for me . forever my life. I want to tell you
100 % for marry . 100% for to be with you every where
I can stay If I have you. I trust you. my bushand .
we have good life togeter on future.
OK teeruk I will do every thing for us .
Please take care you self.
lakon teeruk

If half of that is true, it is more emotion than my Nordic Ice Princess ever expressed. What is LOVE? What causes divorce? I can not answer either question for any other person. But I know I love this suey maak little girl. As for the divorce, it won't be the sex losing something that causes it. It is not talking, from my own experience. I tell her everything I am feeling. Good. Bad. Ugly! She tells me much less, but if I spoke fluent Thai i bet it would be much more. She constantly tells me she is not "same same" as her friends. I believe her.

Dana says:

I will never believe that any woman anywhere writes a more affecting love letter than a Thai woman. They win me every time. I still have a letter from a woman who 'done me wrong'. Can't read it without losing my heart momentarily again. These ignorant uneducated women write the most beautiful love letters in the world. In my most cynical and most creative moment I couldn't write something as innocent and as winning as what they write. God love them for including me in the letter parts of their lives.

Pat Paulsen(hic..!) says:

Good stories CA

Dana,

I got one of those letters.

Three months, two weeks together, the longest tb/gf ever. Crying in the corner at Don Muang. Five months later she axed me. "Hey what's goin on?" But...she asked me back first, said she didn't like the bar, couldn't stand all the jerks, or a city with no car. Still I live a moment when her hand drawn cards come out, a part of my right vessel swells and even starts to sprout (6 years later). I told myself she wasn't "pretty," and there's oh so many walkin Mango city. You can always find a keeper, yeah they working in the bar, just get yourself a "sleeper"(hmnnn!) she'll be your only...(not in my car!)

Good luck!

Pat

Captain America says:

Dana and Pat,

Truth can be worse than fiction, so whatever her motivations I too am honored to be a recipient! Hopefully the only one; however, my ex-wife taught me that fidelity or lack thereof is but a state of mind.

Since precious few 20 year olds are on fire to date me back in the States, I have to take my walk on the high point of the risk/reward curve. Just like I will when I leave my cushy career in a few months for the rigors of entreprenuership! Once more, I harken back to the words of that most wooly of sages, the Dali Llama: Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.

Amen your Dali-ness.

jdman says:

CA,

Heart felt thoughts again. You have fallen bad haven't you? I have been there but have pulled back a bit since getting the perspective of this blog. Nonetheless, my GF's email letters continue to come. They warm and break my heart at the same time. I would like to share an old one with you. Her english is getting better with school but who knows could be the work of a scribe. Still put a tear in my eye and set my heart flying. This and other discussions along the same line brought on the "I want our baby now" letter I sent to Mango.

Hi Terak XXXXX,

I get your e-mail today I don't understand well. but I would try to do understand and I think you are worry to much about me terak. Don't you worry much I know you love me and care about me. I will take care of my life. I know who one love me is you. Terak sametime if i do make you worry I am sorry terak.

Don't worry about other man. I know you cant be 28 year old for me. and I no want it Why everytime you think me like young man? I know young man like me. but not want to be with them, I want man can take care of me and my family. I know young man don't like to do that, because them just have fun....and me never think of them more then friends....hope you do understand what I telling you!

You are only and first person that always give a nice thing for me and don't make me cry.
I am lucky to have you in my life. Can you remember? I said ... I want to have a baby...
(Thai half American) Can you give for me?
You are very good person... I think... Our baby will be lovely and good person like his father.
I do miss you... My dream is I want to have a baby with you..if I can. Now I know you are a good one for me. and make me feel want to have a baby. But sometime I'm so afraid, can't have a baby I worry very much. because I'm old and you also. Do you understand what I mean, If I can't have a baby. do you still want to be with me darling :) I'm so scared!!!!!!!

Where do you work now terak? Do you go to your home
already. This month I very busy because in my class more difficult and next week, we have to test.....I will do good for you :) I think next month I will learn more. now I learn 2 hour for day. but I want 5 hour for day in next month, what you think terak..I know I can do. But I very lonely.

If you love me why do you not try to be together..and then you can't know we're happy or not....Now you just think and dream and worries to
much!!!!!!! I know you have many friends. talking about Thai girl I don't care they are think of me. I do what I want to do.

Hope you are better today. I love you forever.

XXXXXX

Well CA (and the rest) ...shit like that is real poetry. These girls kill you emotionally (and physically when you can't jump on them morning noon and night). I am a wreck. The only girls I am attracted to now in the US are young and asian and I know why. Obviously looking for a substitute for my Thai GF. But it ain't the same and can't happen here. No 28 year old asian-american girl as shocking suay mak mak is going to hook up with me (a 52 year old two time divorced 'loser') unless she is a pure gold-digger. Why would they, they are getting hit on by plenty of younger guys here who are well off enough. The opportunity to turn the clock back by hooking up with my GF in LOS seems the chance of my lifetime. I feel like you CA and want to just roll the dice.

One other question. Are you planning on having a pre-nup agreement? Why would you not want to do that and at least safeguard what you have now ($2M as I recall). If your marriage goes south, she sounds smart enough to get a lawyer and take you to the cleaners in the good old US of A. This PNA must jive with visa rules I guess because I think you must agree to support the girl in the USA for the rest of her life whether you are married or not (someone in the blog said that). But I don't think that has to be at the level she gets used to when you first get started together in Austin.

Maybe TK can comment from the legal perspective. Sorry, money is not romantic but having been gutted twice I am trying to help others avoid serious financial pain. Think of it this way. If this one goes south and you come out of it finacially intact, then you really can immediately go back and try again. If you are gutted, then you are stuck slaving away until you are 52 to get back to a secure state and by then you are in my own less than perfect shoes. Good luck but be careful.

Not telling says:

Snippet of a love letter:

Briefly, yes, these feelings of deep despondency and heartbreak are 100% about you not being with me physically. The feeling came from my body first, and it took awhile to get to consciousness. I feel I have good reason to supress the knowledge of separation from you - I don't think I could properly function without suppressing that. Lately the despondency is so deep that even my body has stopped trying to ward off disease and I have sore throats, stomach aches, ear aches, and head aches along with the tight solar plexus and feelings of sadness and lethargy. Spontaneous episodes of crying triggred by the simplest little things on TV. Today I did let in our connection a bit more, and cried about you not being here. I feel the same way about our connection - we are the same person. For me to have you physically not here is inconceivable. Dreadfully painful. The most extreme anguish I've ever experienced was the first three weeks after you left. Like constant dental work on body spirit and mind.

Ok, enough of that.

I love you and miss you too.

Captain America says:

LOS, Part V.

I leave for California Sunday night, two days of business. Then from San Jose to Los Angeles, and a nice flight on Cathay Pacific. My first ever First Class on an International Flight. Mostly to get some sleep so I can pierce those lovely lips the moment we are ensconced in our apartment. Now, I am not only talking of the nether lips. I have been told I am a very passionate kisser. My young fiancee seems to have very little desire to kiss, in the european sense of the word. She seems rather concerned about brushing her teeth, which are beautiful and white. She knows I brush, floss and take good care of my hygeine. So what have we here? is this a trait, no tongue shall enter her mouth lest it be a part of her Thai food repetoire? Or, have my rare oral probings turned her off? Enquiring minds...

Mixed emotions about my trip, most of the negatives are simple dread of the damn heat! She sent me e-mail this morning. To let me know she took a cab last night, but traffic was so bad she hopped on to a motorcycle. She claimed she was so hot by the time she got home she could not get in the shower fast enough. Then she joked, she wondered if she was hot what I would have been like! Sometimes I am rather surprised I enter her mind, as like many posters we wonder what the hell these mysterious creatures think about. What in God's name do they talk about on the phone? We have all seen a bit of the "far away bar girl syndrome." She is right next to you, but the little cogs are turning, ever so slowly. Tophet's Wheel, with little tiny calculations, machinations, manipulations being dreamt of. hell, they go eight moves deep, so why are all grand masters male? Are women so fucking smart, they avoid chess because then we would KNOW how smart they really are?

Well, as my fellow countryman would say-"Why ask why?" They are indeed treacherous, but when bent over a bed, with that perfect gon beckoning, we men are oblivious to the sign- "DANGER, Do Not Enter!"

Peace, happy trails, and may your moments of bliss be devoid of the concommitant moments of complete and utter recognition of how women can fuck up your life!

Captain America says:

Aww shit JDMAN, I understand. yes, these little things are adroit in using written acupencture on our hearts!

I also, for the first time in my life, understand that pyshically it is a young person's world. Rationalizing helps. My ex and I had a couple of swapping episodes while our marriage was young, and I was in grad school. It taught me that monogomy was no more natural for men as women. our genes pull us towards procreating with a healthy lady (read young!) and theirs with a man who can provide. They often try out frivolous sex. One would think a bar girl has had enough of the frivolous kind. She wants a real man who can take care of her to have a baby with. My fiancee is very clear about her fears. She hates thunderstorms, and probably would cheat on me not to be alone when they happen. her biggest fear is having a kid, and the man running off to leave her to fend. FEAR, can be a bigger motivator than lust. I believe you need to find a way to get your GF to the USA. Get her out of the cycle of sex for money. You can handle the questions from friends and collegues. Your 52 god damn it, you can do whatever makes you happy. That is the essence of Americanism.

I have been told to get a pre-nup. My attorney tells me that pre-existing conditions are inviolate, she can never get this $2M. She can only sue for assets acquired during the marriage. I was very benevolent with thhe first wife. Since she cheated, Texas allowed me to sue her for infidelity, and take 70% if I could prove it (easy, she was already living with the guy!). I gave her 65%, owing to her being devoid of earning potential. if my little missy leaves after a few years, will gladly share what she helped me earn. She does NOT gamble, barely drinks, does not smoke, used to be an athlete in school (volleyball and basketball). So I hope the usual BG nightmares in farangland will not occur.

JD, make a commitment to her. Save YOURSELF. Your 52, and she lights you up! Money is not the panacea everyone believes. You KNOW that, you have had it and lost it. Please fucking listen to me again, "It is not the top, but the side of the mountain that sustains life." I have had more fun earning money, than counting it.

Peace. Best of luck.

Greg says:

Post irony is the future. You can say something, critisize your own viewpoint, ridicule the society that gave rise to your viewpoint, and be perfectly sincere, all at the same time.

Form and emptiness.

Dean is our guiding light.

Greg says:

If I were gay, I would probably want to suck his dick for a while. But I am not gay, so I do not want to do that.

Greg says:

Oh man - I made a bunch of posts under the names of anon 1, anon 2 etc. I guess they were stupid enough that David removed them. Damn. They weren't meant to be stupid. Maybe he thought they were spam?

jdman says:

I hope your lawyer was speaking for all states of the union. California is pretty much a woman's nazi paradise on this issue and if you are in front of a female judge...watch your balls because she will want one of them too!

Thanks for the upbeat advice though. As I said, I am hurting too much by the separation from my TGF to last much longer. I will need to take the bullet and find out if it is fatal or not. I might love the pain of the climb as you say more than being on top of the mountain.

Captain America says:

JD,

I'm having a bite of trepidation myself. We have had a rough two weeks on e-mail, phone, video-conference. I am starting to see the things I will miss with her. I am worrying about many of the things that haunt you.

Guess this is a supreme lack of confidence (rare for me!), precipitated by the horrible way the lady i trusted most in the world tore my heart out last time. :-( Almost begs the point, is sex, companionship, pressed shirts, and love worth it? Who really gets the better deal? I find, already i am a little jealous of how easy I have made her life. Reminiscent of my former wife. Shit, ain't nothing better than being a babe. Get a bunch of men to fall all over themselves to take care of you.

Off to LOS in a few days. Strangely, I am not looking forward to this one. Have cancelled Spain, and South Africa this year. I usually liek to vacation in new spots, with wine producing regions! Instead, five trips to a part of the world I really do not care to see for a while.

Yep, this ain't easy. The good news? it is NOT due to her cheating, my cheating, or uncertainty of her feelings. it is more importantly, "do I want to be married again?"

CA

Pat Paulsen says:

JD and CA,

No matter how things work out you'll be better off for all of this; for having begun to trust in love again, for finding someone foxy enough to share that love with, for opening your hearts, again. These beliefs will enrich your lives once more, no matter how things turn out. And then, who knows, maybe you'll get even luckier. I envy you! Tam sabai la chok dee!

Pat

Cog says:

Posted by Captain America | July 29, 2004 07:09 PM
"I believe you need to find a way to get your GF to the USA. Get her out of the cycle of sex for money."

IMO, this is sound advice.

Discovering first-hand the efficacy of removing the 'girl from the bar' is a risky proposition; however, if one finds oneself in such a predicament, success of conducting the social experiment can by explored by neutralizing the expression of unwanted traits; the subject must be isolated from undesirable stimuli. The longevity of the relationship is directly proportional to the distance the BG is in relation to her past environment. The lunar surface would be a recommended location to establish base camp.
[The BG Relationship Manifesto: chapter 1]

Question to the Captain: In loving this girl, have you made peace with the fact that you will be the moo juice...cash cow...for her family?

Captain America says:

Firstly, a warm choke dii to pat! Very heartening response, in this jaded think tank.

COG, I am well aware that character and temprement are immutable, and determined by nature. Still, even those things which can not be changed react differently in different environments. Sort of like chemical reactions. Add some inert nitrogen or noble gas, and even paper won't rot!

As for being moo juice, afraid I have held on to that title for over 20 years! many a farang lady, has been treated very well by me. Frankly, so have all of my friends. It would tick me off royal to see my money go for frivolity up country, and I would ax them in a heartbeat if it funded drinking, gambling, or other sundry activities. I like my future in-laws. So far, they are sincere, simple, gentle, proud, have asked for nothing. I would also like to choke them to death, for sending an innocent kid, who lost her virginity, cried for weeks on end, and still sent 50-70% of the proceeds to her folks. they were not in desperate need. Pisses me off something fierce. What is done. is done. Did she eventually like it? I am convinced that physically a hard dick feels good to almost every woman. Emotionally? Six weeks hurt her. I can not even talk about her time there, she gets extremly sad. her first time with me, she said working in bar was "up to her." she has since admitted, 'this is where my mother send me, to THIS place." Christ, and I bought drinks in the god damn bar, and perpetuated the whole sordid mess. Ethnocentrism on my part? yea, I guess. nothing wrong with fucking for money, this has been MUCH more honest than a marriage license with a farang pooying. Still, I would have enjoyed meeting her, courting her, chasing her, NOT saving her.

Wow, my ramble jets have hit Mach 2.

got an e-mail from the faen of one of my fiancee's friends. An American pilot. Nice guy, they all like him. He has been noticably absent a few months. Asked me to hand his cutie an ATM card when i am there, so he saves the $40 wire transfer fee. He is married. I discussed this with my lady. I told her he was a bad man, two timing his wife. She laughed. I then asked her how it would feel if I had mia noi, maybe with one of her friends? In near perfect Angkrit, "I shoot you with gun. Jealous, khou jai mai?" It is a fucked up country, morally devoid. In some ways. In others? Light years more advanced than the piteously repressive crap i have been fed since birth. Thailand may well drive me insane. it is the geographical equivalent of Dorian Gray's fucking mirror.

I guess the reason i am so nervous is, I think i do her a DIS-service moving her to Texas, in a 5000+ sq ft home, giving her a brokerage account with $100,000 US, a Nissan 350 ZX convertible, and all the trappings. They do not call them trappings for nothing.

Had a brutally hot party up country with her family last visit. Mosquitos. Warm beer. Strange little mollusks eaten with a lethally hot red sauce. Sweat dripping down my every pore. She sat near me, I understood nothing of the conversations. She would not drink, but encouraged me to drink with her father and uncle. End of the night, her mom comes to talk to me. Sawatdee ca. Sawatdee krhap. My daughter loves you, she says haltingly. Phom rak XXXX I blather. "her tell me, you good man." Khap khun krhap. "Her tell me you you love her." Yes I do. "Her not want anything from you, just be good." I know. "We not want from you." I will give you, but please never ask unless you have to. And i give, ONLY to you, father, sister. Only. "We say thank you." She then, grabs me by my nads, pets, twists turns. Smiles, and says something like "mai lek! Good." I told her daughter the next day, as i was buried inside of her. She laughed, say mother always complain father not too big!

Insanity. I feel, like Kurtz did in Apocolypse Now. Except, when Conrad wrote the bugger, it was fiction. When the movie was restructered, it was escapist fiction. it ain't. In all of us, is a little raw human. Mine wants to fuck my mother in law. My 12 year old sister in law, and every woman, in every club, beer bar, Seven 11, and streetcorner in thailand. These women are just fucking amazing. Like NOTHING I have ever seen. My friend fucked me up royal taking me there. Just like a heroin addict shooting up his best friend, so they had more in common.

I am 43. I might not make 50, but I am going to have a lot of fun with the money still left. I once had $6M, a tall blond, shot a 72 on good days, many friends, and was a virulently unhappy man. I have much less now, will probably have my heart torn out, break every one of the 10 fucking commandments, and could care less if I even break my life long vow of fidelity. Hell, I honestly (seriously!) do not care if she cheats. I qualified expert with my Colt 1911, and even with AIDS would be quite capable of hitting my uvula!

Choke dii you fellow fuck ups. My old buddy Neitszche once said, "stare in to the abyss, the abyss stares right back at you." My abyss is connected to an 85 lb girl/woman. She smiles. laughs. Crys. Loves. learns. Pours viscous fluids on cue. And will one day smile over my lifeless body. And even that, I consider the sweetest of truths.

peace my friends. At least we all understand each other. Nit noi.

Greg says:

Nice, CA.

Captain England says:

Captain America,what's happened,I've sat and read all your letters and everyone elses concerned and you've gradually gone from being excited and looking forward to getting married to having a few reservations now and not quite sure which way to go.
My advice is stick with your original plans and don't be influenced by others/scaremogerers who have maybe had bad experiences with Thai women or have overdone it in Thailand and ended up all bitter and twisted.
I've been happily married to my wife now for 5 years with now with one daughter and although we've had our differences I've got no regrets,and I'm only 36.
Everyone to their own,just do what you feels right for you,anyway..Chok di Krap

Captain America says:

Cap england,

thanks so much for the response, and for the compass reading!

I am back to normal now. Had a bit of a row with work, thhey are none too pleased I am leaving on yet another two week Thailand sojourn, Honestly? other than seeing her, I am not too pleased eiither. Thailand messes with me precepts! :-) Polarizes me. Love hate. And, I am afraid to get married again. to anyone. Further, i am LONELY in america. I travel so much, my life was already disjointed. now? Feel like the stranger in my own neighborhood. This too shall pass.

Would like to retract a few things from my previous comments. I do not want to cheat on her. A Part of me says, "if I cheat first, won't hurt so much if she does." Artifacts of the duplicity my EX through my way. No reflection on the lovely young lady who has stolen my every thought.

Lastly. Her past bothers me. I am having trouble assimilating it. My mind is tortured with pictures of seedy motels, fat Germans, short time, long time, and all the sundry shit that comprises a man getting his rocks off for 2000 baht. Her first time with me, i gave her 6000 baht Thai, and 4000 baht american. The $20 bills did not register with her, so I helped her do the exchange rate (she certainly knew Yen). She had a big, big, big smile. Sawat Dee Ca. Sawat dee ca. Same thing the next night. She had her little lesson books with her, frst Japanese then Angkrit. Her makeup was all gone inthe morning. A small blemish or two. A little girl. It was one of the most endearing, distressing, and soul stirring moments of my life. The seond one was meeting the ex for the first time, she took my breath away as well. The third? Has to be her new apartment/condo, first night. Her in pajamas! Sitting on her couch, 6 hours of us going over English and Thai. Holding hands. Hugging. Eating sticky rice. Ordering room service, her giving me all the best bits of stuff. My God, suddenly I understood why men and women were created. Why we are different. her life, is pleasing others. No wonder ALL women are neurotic, they always come second, even to themselves! A lesson for me. Big, bad, worldly me has learned quite a few from her.

I love her. INTENSELY. And for the first time, I understand why men do not show up at the alter! Crap, she scares me silly.

CA

Captain America says:

An observation. Perhaps thai bar girls are the ne plus ultra of male pleasure and duplicity for a reason? If you lived in a country in which you were essentially powerless, you too would hone any skill in which parity or survival could be sustained. Men are silly putty in the hands of an accomplished lady, in ANY culture. But in Isaan, we are dealing with a persistant art form.

On my last trip, my little lady wore traditional Thai regalia and danced in a trang trang dance. She has a spectacular voice as well. I was in awe. Floored. Over whelmed with pride, enjoyment. The first night I met her I stuck a rubber coated cock in her, and watched her wince. Months later, here was an innocent little girl dancing in a fashion thhat predates the birth of my country.

Contrasts make life interesting, and Thailand is replete with them. Almost more than I can handle though!

CA

Greg says:

You are a wise, heartfelt and considered man.

I agree with some other posters that love is a part of life best embraced - the good and the bad. I don't agree that marriage is.

Cross cultural marriages work for some, work poorly or not at all for others. I'm starting to think that a lot depends on what ones needs in relationship are.

For a temporary relationship from 6 months to a few years, sharing love and communion and sex is very good. A minority of us aren't satisfied with love and communion and sex. I think you have to ask yourself what is really important to you in intimacy, if you can expect to get that with your bride, and if you can afford to loose it.

I'm going through a mini nervous breakdown triggered by a crisis of meaning. I'm not complaining, I've had a great run here in Thailand. I played out some long standing fantasies, and I'd do it all over again, starting from where I was when I arrived. But not standing from where I am now. From where I stand now, I'm ready for a deeper level of intimacy that I can not seem to find with a Thai.

Intimacy is bandwidth. Communion depends on communication. The love that passes between the eyes of two deep souls sends their hearts to commune with their timeless essense. You can't do that with someone with glassy cow eyes.

Most can feel strong attachment and many can open their bodies to commune spirit. But not all have an engine in their heart that pumps out the heat of love.

I'll stop here. I plan to take a few weeks and write an essay on this topic. I find that many have the attitude that as long as both partners have some affinity and perseverence that love can overcome and make a marriage "work". I'm of the opinion that people are of varying capacities and have varying interests, and that if the gap between people is too large, both loose out. A meaningful sense of emptiness and lonelyness is not something that should be part of a marriage.

I'm not saying marriage with a Thai can't be successful, I'm saying look to what you need to have deep intimacy in the various areas and at the various levels that you seek intimacy, and how much your partner is capable to provide that. If love is only available through marriage... Well, I would not pay that price. Love comes relatively easily. A marriage partner is very very rare.

Captain America says:

Greg,

I am just on the way out, but thank you for sharing your heart. Not something a man generally says to another one, but maybe we should.

Yes, intimacy is so much more than physical. I had a soul mate for the first 8-9 years of my marriage. I am trying to recapture it, with a young girl from a different planet. I understand how you have missed the company of those who understand your nuances, your essence. I too will most likely not find it in this relationship. But I am going to try. Two way street. I do not think america has anything on thai life: however, I am not one of the knee JERK liberals who excoriate their own country reflexively. America has brought freedom and growth to more people in the last 300 years than any nation save Britain in the past 1000.

I look forward to your essay, your write eloquently, emotively. it is a topic you cover that we all need to face, those of us who have forsaken the pallor of farang beasts, for the opulant exoticism of child women (not just talking chronology either!).

OTOH, my little lady sent me a note this afternoon. She chided me for wanting plastic surgery on my ears, which have been a source of annoyance for many years. She further chided me for working out against doctor's orders, have battled West Nile Fever for three weeks. Was happy to get the diagnosis too, as malaria, AIDS and hepatitis were my first worries! :-) Like any pychotic triathlete, I have been unable to give up the workouts, although the distannce has been curtailed by my weakness and pain.

My best friend has been married to his Thai lady for 12 years or so. she was a domestic in the Nepalese Embassy when he first met her. he did a hash run, and followed her up in the hills. Not well either, she tells me! They have never been close. In love? Yes, they both are. But lately he tells me he wishes he had not gotten married. She grew cold, more aloof than her norm recently. perhaps they came in to too much money. Perhaps it was the mia noi(s)? Maybe it is a cultural thing. We always laughed at him, thinking he needed someone easy to dominate. Most of us preferred his wife to him, as a human being! She learned very little english. he almost mai Thai. I hope to avoid that! I want to be part of her life. She is 10 years younger than my friend's wife when she entered the US. She had travelled though, to Russia and nepal. My little angel has seen Phuket! :-)

Have to go shower. off to dinner with three American pooying. Just friends. sushi. Must admit, nice to converse in my native tongue. Two weeks with all Thai folks gets me feeling mighty strange, frustrated. Hell, five days in Yii-pan drove me bonkers last month. Why don't these yokels learn English? Even if they hate us, we won the world Bank, and them!

My Beautiful XXXXXXX,

You make me very happy with e-mail.You give me good advice, and I listen to both you and doctor. it is funny, even though I am 43 and you are 20, i think maybe you more grown up than me! :-)

Thank you for telling me ear OK. You know, when you get blemish on face, you go to face doctor! To XXXXX, not see anything and you look suey maak, maak,maak to me! always! Many stupid people say thing to me about my ear. I want to fix for long time, this is good time to do it. I want you to be proud of your husband, when we go out together. I know that way a person look is not everything, but can be important some times. This is last ngoen i spend on XXXXX, I sorry it is so expensive (phaeng).

Today, I eat nit noi! In few hours, go out with Sonya, Rachel and paulette for sushi. New place open in downtown Austin, called Uchi! Then we go hear some music. Tomorrow (sunday), i try to find way to pack up things I buy for you! Stuff is not heavy, but big!

Today, after swim at river, i go to take my car in for cleaning. Looong time! What we call "detail." many, many rich people. Fancy cars. Mostly pooying, married pooying. Some have baby. Very nice, I like to play with the baby! I dream. I dream a lot. Dream of you in Austin, Texas. Lawn today, 37 degrees! Dream you take car to get cleaned. You play with our son, or daughter while you wait. You look so pretty, and happy. You come home, we get babysitter (girlt o watch baby). We go out for nice dinner, then maybe to dance or movie. Come home. We play with baby together. I change diaper! Pheww! :-) Bad smell, but OK for me! I hug you. Kiss you. Our life together is good. You take care of house and baby, I work so that you have good life. If you want, make me happy XXXXX.

I also dream of city called San Francisco? You hear of? In California. On ocean. Can be cold, but not too cold. Pretty. We stay in hotel, high up. Go out in evening, go to old farang music we call Classical Music. 200 musicians. Beautiful music. Most from Russia, Germany, Italy, Farang-Set, Angkrit (Britain). Can be 300 years old. I hold your hand as we listen, and give you small juup. You have on black dress, and look more suey maak than any lady i ever see. I am deep in love with you. In heart. It is good for me XXXX. Very good. I love you. I know that. I trust you too. Everything. We are both going to be happy together, in my dreams you smile. You feel safe. Your family is happy. You learn about my culture, and I learn about yours.

OK, have to take shower now! See you in a few days.

When i come to Tahiland, we have many good things to talk about.

XXXXXXXX

Captain Ugly american

Dana says:

I'm exhausted. Enough already. We are starting to talk like girls. Somebody marry somebody and good luck to you. I've got my own problems. One of my balls is lower than the other.

Captain America says:

Dana,

Choke dii khrap, you ignorant, undescended testicle, fucked up saharat american bastard! :-)

You go first, and repeat this phrase (first heard in the Wizard of Oz, muttered lowly by one of those monkeys)..."marriage ain't forever."

Ciao. Wait fuck that. La khon.

CA

Typical Anonym says:

I rolled the dice and married a Thai woman who I barely knew.

Flash forward a few years: we're in the US now and are very happy together. Hasn't all been a bed of roses but we have a successful marriage based on love and respect.

One observation:

IMO you are making a huge mistake with talk of seeding her life in the US with thousands of dollars, a car, etc. You are sending the wrong message, reinforcing the notion that she deserves all of this just because she makes you happy in a way that suits *you*, and not because of anything of true substance and worth that she's accomplished to earn it. You are also throwing too much at her all at once and as someone who has had nothing in life, she is simply not equipped with the cognitive ability to deal with all of it, especially as she'll simultaneously be trying to adapt to all the other issues with relocating, etc. Finally on this, throwing money around does not help you to feel sure that she loves you and not just the promise of a better life -- those things naturally go together to some degree but if her love is driven primarily by financial comfort, you have not found a soul mate (note that I said "if her is love is driven by financial comfort" and not "if she is with you only for the money").

Captain America says:

Typical,

You are 100% correct, I need to put this genie back in the bottle. I HONESTLY do not think she wants those things, and it has been my fault in describing and then providing them.

She does know, I love HER. of all our discussions, I emphasize learning, university, seeing the world. Sure, it takes money to provide those things, but she knows I want her to work hard to grow. THAT, is a stretch for her. she does not consider herself smart, calls herself of "low birth." I am working very hard to build up her self esteem. She is a very, very shy, quiet, reserved girl by Thai standards. What she did in that bar did a number on her.

Thanks so much for telling me you too were happy, after rolling the dice. Not knowing the background, i will assume my situation resonates.

This trip, I will be very economical. She is a very proud girl, and I think she does not like me buying for her. She bought me workout clothes for my last visit, and she (and her friends confirmed this!) said she spent hours picking it out for me! I was very touched. she apologized it was not expensive, and I told her that the best gifts are not expensive. She smiled.

I have to curb my jealousy and mistrust. I did some damage questioning her about the friend's customer who ate in our apartment, and then getting angry she went out and got plastered at RCA for her friend's birthday. I tried to explain, that if I had been a gigalo, she might be mistrustful. But (surprise!) that was the dumbest thing I might have said. We will NEVER discuss her past again. One poster here said earlier, I probably do not want to know everything anyway. What is to be gained?

I FEEL she loves me, and would stay if my circumstances were more modest. However, I am a very complex man, and she had one boyfriend before the bars. She was a virgin when she entered G-Spot. She does not know men. I am finding, maybe I do not know women either?

What are some of the pitfalls for your wife? Was climate, food, shopping, loss of big city life a concern?

Thanks for sharing...

CA

Typical Anonym says:

It's not so much that she doesn't want those things. It's that she's not yet equipped to understand what those things are, how to use them, why they are important, and most importantly, what their worth is in terms beyond money.

You cannot build her self-esteem over the course of a few weeks or months. It takes *YEARS* because it wasn't only the bar that did a number on her. Thai society does not treat its majority well at all and she is the product of a system that's designed to keep her poor and subservient to the established order. She's been more or less disenfranchised her whole life and you will spend years undoing it. Seems trivial to us as Americans, from an egalitarian