Multiple bomb blasts rock Bangkok

chris says:

scary to think of bombs in bangkok , it must be the muslims again .

zenden says:

f**k the islamic militants. I curse them get rotten dicks

Pants Elk says:

Oh sh-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-t.

Jason says:

Bangkok Post says it is likely not the work of muslim separatists. So who the fuck knows. It's a damn shame that Bangkok has to have something like this happen on new years.

herman says:

read this on my mobile

big yawn
you must be a bit sad sitting in on new years eve tracking the news

big deal; 10 times more poeple die of aids every day in bangkok

Prufrock says:

Chris
You have a fresh new choice this year.

You can either begin to learn about the world around you through your own eyes and ears instead of those of Rush Limbaugh et al. and start thinking for yourself.

or

you can f*ck off and die.
Sawat dii pimai

bangkokram says:

"All over, nothing to see" This seems to be the mantra of the Thai TV Stations. After a five minute interuption to the usual Soaps and Game Shows the news gave way to yet more dross.
Maybe this is a refreshing point of view, had this happened in a western country, there would have been wall to wall coverage.
BTW Security on the outskirts of Bangkok is very tight, there are road blocks on Viphawadi Rangsit near Carrfour.
As far as bombs in Bangkok goes, I doubt we have seen the last of this type of action, i'll put money on the Muslim Insurgents, just their MO, small bombs aimed at innocent people and no chance of capture. Brave souls!
Perhaps the set of a soap opera being bombed might wake a few people out of apathy.

LOS says:

>>Thai press are quoting Government sources blaming the bombings on factions loyal to deposed Prime Minister Thaksin<<

This new Thai government is another joke...It must be the work of those guys from the south of Thailand..

Drivespline says:

Oh! Those wacky muslims! Gotta love 'em!
Don't we have a couple dozen spare thermonuclear devices about?

William Mahanakorn says:

This is breaking news from the Bangkok Post website. A bomb went off on Khao Sarn. It doesn't look like Muslims, by the way....

Second bombing wave aims at tourists

Midnight bombs wound many foreign visitors

A new wave of bombings hit Bangkok right at the New Year, wounding several foreigners and Thais celebrating in top tourist areas of Bangkok.

Two bombs went off near the Central World Plaza in central Bangkok, severely wounding at least four foreigners and two Thais as they ate at the popular Best Seafood restaurant on the bank of Klong (Canal) Saen Saeb.

Witnesses said the explosion ripped off the leg of one of the western visitors, and others were also badly wounded.

Almost at the same time, another explosion went off at the sidewalk level of stairs leading to the pedestrian overpass leading to the Central World Plaza, where a huge New Year's Eve public party had been scheduled and then cancelled.

Authorities said the second explosion wounded both foreigners and Thais passing by.

A third bomb was reported half an hour into the new year at a bar at Khao San Road, the main area for budget travellers. Police evacuated that area after the explosion, and cleared shoppers and vendors from the Lumpini Night Bazaar after they found and defused a bomb just before it went off.

Andy says:

Fuck! Glad to be spending New Years in the UK tonight...

As usual, it all looks a bit clueless on the "who might be culpable" front. A bit of leadership would be nice for a change here. Y'know before all the tourists; investors; large companies still stupid enough to still be here piss off forever. *sigh*

Dana says:

">>Thai press are quoting Government sources blaming the bombings on factions loyal to deposed Prime Minister Thaksin<<

This new Thai government is another joke"

Absolutely depressing--you could easily have imagined the Thaksin government saying the exact same thing. No wonder reading about the French revolution has lost none of it's appeal.

On a tangential note, and I am absolutely not original here; if this kind of pissant terrorist violence becomes an ongoing thing in the capital you can just kiss goodbye international investing in the Kingdom, and tourism, and global credit, and Thai stock market values, and property values, and any very small advances that have been made in Thai-farang relations. In short; can undercapitalized individuals or cadres or cells of highly motivated, uneducated punks bring down a country? Yes.

Grunt says:

Why does this remind me of the "Iraqi Militants" who go around blowing up their own women and children in an effort to show displeasure with...the American military?

Looks like MI6 up to shenanigans again.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0510/S00242.htm

rusty wallace says:

You have a far better chance of being murdered in that god cursed USA than getting blown up in Thailand

Matt says:

What a night.

Khun Jo says:

Damn, sad to see that this shit is happening in BKK. I just have one thing to say.. What did the new government think was going to happen when they released hundreds of suspected terrorists in the south recently! and YES its the Muslims! Do anyone think that Taksins poor supporters would have the knowledge and excperience to conduct theese multiple attacks... hell no!

NotAnyBangkokRelatedWebsite.com says:

Informed sources tell me that they are investigating whether the explosions have anything to do with a latent conflict brewing within the farang webmaster community. Suspicious traces of turnlight signal plastic were found at at least one of the incident sites.

matt says:

Is it me or is Herman a twat.

Prufrock says:

Drivespine: Neo-con Astroturfer non plus ultra

In Bangkok for two weeks with a Summers Fun-tour 26 months ago but he'll be back. . . . someday.
. . . he'll skip that Rose Garden thing next time.
Time-waster, it was.
. . . . knows next to nothing about nearly everything.

Building up those sick days. Cutting down on expenses. Hits all the websites, dick in hand. . . . pants around the ankles.

. . . .waddles on over to "beside the point" every time and without fail Limbaugh's under the bar to make a cheap hate-point against over a billion people.
Bush's fool.
S-o-o-o clever. S-o-o-o-o conctructive.

Do you even know what a Muslim is?
You don't.
Never stops him, though does it.
Idiot hate monger.
Sucks on all levels.

Derukugi says:

The religion of peace comes to Bangkok.
Wait until they find Nana Plaza. Plenty of infidel sinners there.

The buffalo on the bridge says:

"One person was seriously injured at Saphan Kwai near the Big C supermarket. Witnesses saw a man drop a grenade from a pedestrian bridge."

I used to live in Saphan Kwai..Did any of these "witnesses" try to catch him? or police? I guess they were probably too busy enforcing the 2000 bt smoking in public ban. I used to have to retreat to Big C to escape their rath when I lived there.

and...about those responsible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVhpFlKpqyM

If this happened to you (Chris and Zenden), or any of your family it might turn you to do this kind of cowardly act- sadly, if it is proved to be muslim seperatists from the south, we can expect an equally cowardly response from the Thai authorities.

and, about the rumours it might be Thaksin's work. Have you heard the story about the Trojan Horse?

Drivespline says:

Poorock

How many of your friends have been killed by muslim terrorists? I can count mine on one hand. I've made a bit of a study of the little turds ever since they had the occupants of the building I worked in screaming in flames 1500 feet to their deaths. We have widows and orphans here who would probably love to learn all about muslims from you, poo, considering how wordly you are. I'm always impressed by sanctimony, poo, especially coming from an undereducated elbow slammin he-man like you. Good to know that you'll be able to glean the finer points of muslim sensibilities for us, poo, since you seem to know through some kind of psychic tranference reaching your egg head, that we desperately need you to. Thanks! Your insults directed at me put me right in my place, and you in yours, it would seem. So just keep on keepin on there, brother, I'm counting on your enviable knowledge of muslims to stand fast against the bombers.
Well, certainly it's good to know where your sympathies lie.

Happy new year, asshole.

Nostra says:

This was the work of Keith Summers. He knows Stickmanbangkok.com is making a comeback so he is desperately trying to disrupt the BKK tourist industry. Give it up Summers you fecking twat.

Moleskine says:

"Porntip says Bangkok bombs different from southern explosives

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunant, acting director of the Forensic Science Institute, said explosives used in Bangkok bombs were different from those used by Islamic insurgents in the deep South.

She said she would present details of findings by her institute before making the details public."

Dana says:

"Khunying Porntip Rojanasunant, acting director of the Forensic Science Institute, said explosives used in Bangkok bombs were different from those used by Islamic insurgents in the deep South.

She said she would present details of findings by her institute before making the details public."

You know, I am not glad or proud of this; but I am prepared to not believe any Thai pronouncement I hear or read, and I am prepared to be lied to by the Thais, and I am prepared to not know anything with definity for months or longer. I don't take it personally because I know that I do not matter to the Thais but it is a little distressing to not be able to make a connection with a tribe you stumble upon in the jungle. Thai to foreigner and often Thai to Thai connections are just smoke and mirrors. A society like this is simply not going to be able to protect itself from aggressive outside influences. You need bigger balls in your pants than this to make it in the fight for survival. The government statement read like Churchill during WWII but the problem is that Thais do not have a history of character under diversity. Take a traffic accident for example: first instincts are to run, and to hide, and to lie, and to not accept responsibility, and to blame others, and to bribe. These are not the instincts and character traits of people that can triumph over diversity. If Thailand is ever the object of people who seek to destabilize and take over the country then the country is doomed. Thailand is the defective child that you love because you are the parent. But the fact is still that the child is defective.

Moleskine says:

Dana, was there ever a nation, in the entire history of civilization, that wasn't "doomed"? Nations come and go, as in a dream, or a nightmare. Your defective child has managed, somehow, to make it through last night. Again.

Prufrock says:

Divespine: Rush-like, Coulter-like ignoramus that you are.
Sadly, one among millions.
You've turned 9/11 into religious reliquary, have you not?
Your five-fingered close connection claims with 9/11's victims and your pathetically sanctimonious references are apocryphal.
You know this but you sense support
and no ice has ever been too thin for these silly-ass puke-fests of yours,
n'est-ce pas?

Since the 9/11/01 attacks are the current sacred ground on which your murderous president stands pissing his pants you bait anyone who knows about these Sept 11 2001 New York attacks.

"Whatcha reeedin'fer,"
screamed from the rooftops by idiots. Your electorate.
In The United States of America there'll always be enough fools to elect murderers like this appallingly criminal Bush/Cheney team.

Baldface dittohead mountbank ignoramus.
You are a simple-minded tool.
Your shameless muckling-on to the most facile of ad hominem jive-ass Neo-con vomit simply consolidates my position.

I call hate and murder on you and your ilk!

Why don't you and this Dekrugi f*ckwit start a website where you and all these other Neo-con peckerwoods can piss- gargle away to your hearts' content.

I'm done with you both you fat sluts.

Mr Lucky says:

Agree with you Dana, except for one point:

While Thais may not triumph over ADversity, they triumph over DIversity every day, inventing new and ever more absurd ways to protect their xenophobic culture from evil non-Thai influences.

Santa Hermandad says:

Taken from Yahoo News:

With an eye on Thailand's lucrative tourist trade, which lures around 12 million visitors each year, Achiravit said his men would ensure the streets are safe.

"We are the police. We know who is good or bad by looking," he said

The amazing skills of the Bangkok Police. This quote is a classic.

Bkk Help says:

The two emergency numbers for anyone concerned about relatives in Bangkok are 0066 2305 8253 or 0066 2305 8229.

Mario DC says:

That Herman guy must have some screws loose in that small brain of his (or is it hers) ...
I guess the full name is Peewee Herman.

You're full of shit m*therf*cker ...

anywhere where innocent people die or get injured because of things like this happening is bad. And what does Aids have to do anything with this ? I think you're one of the distributors of it since you seem to be so up-to-date about it.

Keep stupid comments like that to yourself and stick to the issue here or go sit in the toilet and put a bullet through that messed up brain of yours.

Zaphod says:

Moleskine et al:
""Porntip says Bangkok bombs different from southern explosives"...

So what? I don`t know if the explosives used in Bali bombings are the same as those in Jakarta Mariott and US embassy bombings; or the explosives used in the Mindanao and Ermita bombings are the same.
What kind of strawman is that?
There are plenty of explosives; there is one jihadist ideology. Read the Koran and pay attention to sura 9:5.

Ian says:

I've just read that some of the devices were planted in "touristy " locations. ie westerners are being targeted as well as Thai police officers.

I have to agree it's probably those scum-bag muslims again.

Soi Sam says:

If Nana gets it then I bet there'll be a posse heading straight to Suk Soi 3 for retribution. Sounds like a good night to me.

Dana says:

"Dana, was there ever a nation, in the entire history of civilization, that wasn't "doomed"? Nations come and go, as in a dream, or a nightmare. Your defective child has managed, somehow, to make it through last night. Again."

Thank you Mr. Moleskine for stating the obvious and trying to make it an interesting fact. However, you would be well advised to reflect on the fact that all doctors know: to wit--the sick patient that makes it through one more night is not a healthy patient; it is a sick patient that made it through one more night.

It is true that in history's hindsight all tribes come and go and it is also true that like with everything else there are degrees. Some tribes (the Romans for example) lasted longer than others. The fact that all tribes eventually fade from history does not really help Thailand now. I submit that there is not a single strong thing about Thailand as a nation or in the case of the individuals. This does not bode well for it's future. I don't take pleasure in this--I am just sitting in a lawn chair in a historical meadow watching the coming train wreck.

gk in bkk says:

It would seen that this is not the work of the south as no one has claimed responsibility yet. Surely the separatists would let us know if it was their handiwork.

Moleskine says:

"We are the police. We know who is good or bad by looking"

They also see you when you're sleeping, and know when you're awake.

Khun Jo says:

I REST MY CASE:

Gen. Sonthi gave the flw. reason during his press conference for not blaming the Muslims from the South for the recent bombings;
"If southerners came up here to Bangkok they would get lost and wouldn't have been able to escape," said Sonthi.

Hillarious ! And racist too yes!

And most people of Thailand actually buy this.. Its sad that we have this kind of leadership in Thailand and furthermore I believe that the recent attacks discredits Thailands effort in the Global battle against terrorism. We might end up with international security forces in the South if this struggle does not stop to escalate.

IHTFP 04 says:

It's those goddamned Southern Baptists, again!!!

Bill says:

While no one can be sure for certain who was behind these attacks there are more than a few reasons to believe it was not southern separatists at this point. Zachary Abuza (a U.S. Southeast Asian terrorism expert) has already noted that these bombs were different from the type the insurgents use. They were smaller, used a different detonating mechanism, and seem not to have been designed to inflict large numbers of casualties. He also points out that the insurgents are currently winning (or at least not losing) in the south, so why change tactics now? His whole post can be seen here: http://counterterrorismblog.org/.

There are also other problems with the southern theory. If the southerners have decided to adopt the strategy of Qutbist terrorist groups like JI and Al-Qaeda then why only adopt part of their strategy? Attacking BKK would be inline with Qutbist focus on attacking the "far enemy" but these attacks clearly deviated from other major points of Qutbist strategy. Qutbists have all focused on launching large scale mass casualty attacks. These attacks are often in the form of vehicle bombs and/or suicide attacks. The attacks in BKK yesterday were neither of these. Why? There can be little doubt that if the separatists wished to target BKK they could receive help from JI or AL-Qaeda in making larger bombs so why were the bombs so small?

We also need to remember that for the insurgents to launch attacks in BKK would require a whole new insurgent network in BKK. Militants would have to move to BKK undetected by Thai security forces, supplies would have to be found, safe houses rented, etc., etc. It seems unlikely the insurgents would go to all this trouble to launch what was in reality a pretty small attack.

While I do not discount the threat of the insurgents launching attacks against BKK the events yesterday just do not add up to being such an attack. If they do attack BKK it would be a change in strategy for them and the attack should look like any other Qutbist attack. Currently there seems to be no reason for the insurgents to change strategy and the attack was extremely small when compared with other Qutbist attacks. With the information we have now I think the Thai government is right in looking at Thaksin’s friends as the likely culprits.

Common Sense says:

This attack definitely bears the hallmark of an Al Qaeda style attack. Multiple coordinated attacks using explosives targeting police and westerners. Maximum impact with little investment. The poor mans favored battle tactic. The whole operation probably cost less than $1,000 and will cost Thailand millions from the damage it inflicted through symbolism. Crafty little bastards aint they.

As Al Qaeda continues to expand it's influence in the SE Asia Muslim community, these attacks will likely increase in frequency and devastation. What happened last night was only child's play. A test run for bigger attacks in the future if you will. They've got the timing, coordination, target selection thing down. Let's hope they don't figure out how to build a bomb capable of doing some real damage for a few years.

bob says:

Thaksin denies involvement in Bangkok bomb attacks

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra Monday denied his involvement in the bomb attacks in Bangkok on New Year Eve, his legal adviser said.

Noppadol Pattama said Thaksin, who was in Bejing, expressed his sorrow over the attacks.

"He insisted that he did not even think about creating disturbance or violence so that he could return to power," Noppadol said.

"Thaksin said he is worried and feels that is unfair to link him and the old power clique for the bomb attacks."

The Nation

Carl says:

So sad. Unfortunately, it is the new reality in most places and likely just the beginning of more of this kind of cowardice here.

The Thai govt has tried to downplay the seriousness of the Southern situation as not to spook the 12 million ATM's that come in every year, but that has changed now.

That is every bit their aim, to hit the pocketbook of the common man and breed discontent. These small attacks are just trial ballons to gauge impact and response before something much more dramatic is unleashed.

I read a quote by the PM saying he didn't believe it was Islamists from the south because "they would get lost up here and not be able to escape". WTF? Escape is not their plan when the big one comes down.

People have to remember that these guys believe everything gets better for them after they are dead (virgins unlimited right?).

If a few UK-born, middle class Muslims can be brainwashed into blowing themselves up, why not a poor Islamic Thai?

Especially if the family is promised financial reward for his loss. Happens all the time and this has the potential to get really bad before it gets better.

Murdering and terrorizing the local Buddhists is only one prong of the attack. The tourist dollar as a bargaining chip is as good as it gets for the insurgency. Extortion by force is their MO.

sand surfer says:

seems a little bit ameturish,having so many bombs going off and only a few victims. definatley not muslim or al the kieeda or it would have been carnage. Taxin seems more probable HALF ASSED FUCK UP ALL ROUND.There again who could benefit by this act of terror the place is a melting pot for any mischief from any dreamed up bunch of reformists.

Dicer says:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/
read.php?newsid=30023072

Given Thai history since 1930 it is not too presumptuous to think that a bunch of junior officers are up to something.

But then this. He protests too much:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/
read.php?newsid=30023071

And whatever the case, time to grab the money:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/
read.php?newsid=30023003

In a country where real action, simple posturing and empty speech/claims are mixed like somtam poo one would have to look and look and look until something comes up. It's like when they pay a bunch of thugs 500 baht and a couple bottles of Chang each to protest in front of this that or the other. In Thailand people usually don't care unless it is the military the cops or the super rich. The vast majority are bought and sold by anyone. Unlike many 3rd world countries where the population is highly politicised we have here a comatose populace that only springs into action when you show money.

A good precedent would be the (Hok Tulaa Event) the massacre of 6 October 1976 in the grounds of Thammasat University and Sanam Luang by the Bushido boys and hired village thugs from Isaan (again a few hundred baht and rice wine) which saw protestors raped, mutilated, lynched, and burned alive. The massacre led immediately to a military coup against the democratically elected Pramoj and the appointment of Tanin Kraivixien as P.M. (still around as a privy councillor) Why did it occur? The students were protesting the return to Thailand of Thanom Kittikachorn, the dictator ousted by a student protest three years before.

One source explains further:

"Awful, unexplainable, and savage, like some primitive scapegoat ceremony, bodies of the dead were dragged to the park across from Thammasat and mutilated in front of cheering crowds. The horror of the right-wing propaganda came to fruition on that day. Those who participated in the assault seemed convinced that the students were the direct opposite of all things good and all things Thai: they were evil, Marxist, a-dhammic (anti-Buddhist), Chinese and Vietnamese in origin, and anti-royal. When rightist crowds, stoked as they were with the fire of righteousness, strung several corpses to trees and took turns beating and pounding them with chairs, they were not striking out at the Thai students, they were striking out in defense of the Thai Id.

"The end result of the massacre is fairly well known. Survivors fled to the hills to join the Communist insurgents, went into hiding, or fled the country. Thailand itself lurched to the right and tight press control prevented public discussion of the massacre. Yet, as time has passed and press control has all but vanished, the issue of the massacre has still not been publicly taken up...

"A recent review of Thai high school history and culture textbooks showed, disturbingly, that 80% do not even mention the Hok Tulaa events. Of the few that do mention the massacre most use very neutral language (e.g., there was an "uprising" that was "suppressed" and many students fled to the jungle as a result).

http://www.hawaii.edu/cseas/pubs/explore/
v1n1-art6.html

The essence of this precedent:

"Why have Thais so meticulously avoided discussing the massacre for twenty years? The Thai cultural emphasis on avoiding fractious debate and public arguments may serve as the Introduction to Asian Culture 101 answer to the above question."

Ditto Phibun and the Second World War.

For now one can only say: nasty venal and violent bunch. Still not as lethal as it could be though. First they whack 3000 people selling speed and nothing. Then they slap the Malays around and kill hundreds and nothing. Well what do you expect of an army that is famous for its corruption, running smuggling rackets across the country's borders, and lining the pockets of generals who should really be called businessmen. As one old article put it the army has 900 generals, one for every tank, whose actual job is to count whatever cash comes their way.

Another amazing thing is that former dictators and Murder Inc generals never flee for long. They always hate foreign countries (just like Thaksin can't handle London or Beijing). They always end up coming back after a final deal is made, money has exchanged hands. What other country can have so many ex-dictators, generals, ex-dodgy geriatrics and so on who end up living as neighbours in the same district of Bangkok. Never is there a conclusion in politics here but constant leap from one compromise to another that coalesces into an ever bigger assemblage of evil.

Dana says:

"If Nana gets it then I bet there'll be a posse heading straight to Suk Soi 3 for retribution. Sounds like a good night to me."

Very politically incorrect but I admit I smiled.

Dicer says:

"I am just sitting in a lawn chair in a historical meadow watching the coming train wreck." - Dana

Although the previous lines don't adorn it sufficiently for the above to shine it's sort of cute. One still wonders, do we know what the long view means or are we wallowing in "lawn chair" vision?

nekochan says:

Yes!, muslim terrorists are the prime suspect. I am glad you farangs are not that politically correct. Oh!, please use the word "southern bandits" instead!, you are hurting our feeling!

But Gen Sonthi will never buy that. But one thing we khow, his admin is a bunch of buffoons, amateurs, whatever you call them.

Sonthi himself may not worried much about those infedel casualties anyway.

3 months ago, you may recall those coup supporters dancing on a M-41 tank, Vietnam legacy. I hope they are pleased with their junta they had once asked.

At least it is a proof that Thailand will soon be a failed state.

(Do you miss Thaksin?)

Ian says:

I have to agree with what commonsense wrote. There is worse to come I'm sure.

Expect bali type bombings in Phuket and Koh Samui in the future, where they can maximise western casualities. I hope I am wrong, but I've been waiting for a few years now.

Meanwhile some moslem terrorists from down south have been released ? Unbelievable, is this really true ?

Fred says:

Prufrock: You must be Muslim. Yours is a religion of evil. Your god is Satan.

Howdy says:

Hey Matt,

If Herman was a Twat, you would be screwing your Ball's-off now, wouldn't you?

Common Sense says:

Sand Surfer,
You stated "seems a little bit ameturish,having so many bombs going off and only a few victims." Just what seems amateurish about this. This was a well coordinated attack, striking multiple targets. The original series of blasts generated media attention and the two later blasts would have likely provided much more casualties had the new years celebrations not been cancelled. Kind of similar to 9/11. First plane strikes, news crews arrive just in time to catch the second one slamming into a tower. The idea is to stoke fear, not necessarily create mass casualties.

The bombs were made of ammonium nitrate. That's the same explosive used in Oklahoma City. It can be found it many fertilizers. All you need is fertilizer containing 33% ammonium nitrate and the proper amount of diesel fuel mixed in and you have the main charge for a bomb. These items can be easily obtained at a hardware store and gas station. The hardest part is getting the detonator. Electric blasting caps are no larger than a cigarette, and could have easily been smuggled up from the south whereas the larger explosive could not. Hence using the weaker and easily obtainable ammonium nitrate.

Ammonium nitrate is probably the worst explosive that one could use in a fragmentation explosive. It has more of a pushing effect than a cutting effect and would create more blast overpressure injuries than fragmentation injuries. This means they were either not looking for mass casualties or they were unable to obtain more powerful explosives.

The timing mechanisms used show an advanced level of sophistication even most in the Thai military would likely not know. The military uses dummy proof detonating and timing methods. The use of wristwatches shows sophistication meaning outside expertise was likely employed(i.e. Al Qaeda).

This attack was more advanced than you give it credit for. Not to be taken lightly.

Camuschula says:

If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say it was the work of the Thaksinistas or a military or police clique linked to TRT/Chavalit looking to embarass the junta. Plus, Thaksin is really an expert at pulling of ridiculous publicity stunts, and Chavalit has a history of just being ridiculous. And since the bomb attacks look half-assed, it could only have been done by a real Thai, like Dicer said, probably with a bottle of khao lao in one hand and a purple note in the other.

If it were Muslim terrorists, the damage would have been much worse. They have turned terrorism into an art form, and NYE was not work of art. Why not Nana? Why not Pattaya? Why not Patpong or Patong Beach? More farang infidels to wipe out there. And seriously doubt the Southerners would attack Bangkok while a Muslim, handsome bigamist General Sonthi, has control over the country. And there is no history of Muslims outside the South attacking the center.

In the end, who knows the truth? In a week, the power at be may blame the attacks on the Burmese, the Cambodians, the Commies, the black hand, or American capitalists. In other words, round up the usual suspects and start pounding the drums to the theme music of Bang Rajan.

hueston says:

I, too, hope to one day triumph over diversity.

Anonymous says:

Yo, Fred: Check out Prufrock's Georgetown thread responses to "dhiren".
Much like you, dhiren is another bigotted know-nothing fuckwit but, unlike you, he is probably a Muslim.
Congratulations to both of you for bridging the cultural abyss to share a level of stupidity rarely seen on this site.

Bub-bye Astro-turfer

moleskine says:

"However, you would be well advised to reflect on the fact that all doctors know: to wit (sic)--the sick patient that makes it through one more night is not a healthy patient; it is a sick patient that made it through one more night."

Thank you Mr. Dana for stating the obvious and trying to make it an interesting fact.

Lone Ranger says:

I am ultra-militant and negative against Islamacists, and I think the "separatists" in Southern Thailand are the worst breed of criminal terrorists. With that said, I don't for one minute think they had anything to do with the New Year's Eve bombings.

The location selection for attacks reflects someone with much experience in Bangkok.

The separatists want to drive Buddhists out of the three provinces - they have no "imperial" claims on Bangkok.

This is Thai-on-Thai bloodshed - with foreign casualties simply being collateral damage. These were just half-assed attacks - if they wanted to do a lot more serious damage, they could easily have picked MUCH more destructive targets.

Dicer says:

If not mistaken the Thammasat rampage in 1976 was sparked when the students hung the prince in effigy off the liberal arts banyan tree. A photo went to press and word went out to paid village scouts to come in and clean out the commies. Later in revenge they hung students from all the Sanam Luang trees. A yank acquaintance who had taught at TU since it opened was there watching and said he saw them drag out a coed tied up, put her on a chair while she begged and hung her from a tree right in front of him. Then the mass of street lumpen came out of near slums to stomp the corpses. Every year TU has a photo gallery of the event.

Not only not in Thai history books but of course Thais avoid all serious topics and especially history. If you have a 6 year old mind, you stay right there with snacks and cartoons. Even people who were in major events have not told their grandchildren until foreign historians hammered them and did interviews about WWII. Then all the shock comes out.

COPS VS BUSHIDO BOYS

"It's an open secret that there is some opposition to the plans of the CNS to carry out a structural reform of the police force. Any reform would take away a lot of the powers of the police." The Nation.

In the past army officers have been known to get together with disgruntled cops for a coup if not spontaneous fireworks.

Since last month there has been huge pressure on the CNS to abandon planned restructuring of the police force which would result in the latter losing a lot of its power. In the past (50's and 60s) cops and junior officers (the young Turks as they were known) would get together to do coups. Thai politics in the past 50 years has been defined by power struggle between two groups of people. Army and monarchist elite on one side and cops and businessmen on the other. Whoever prevailed would mollify the other with deals and an imposed (but paid for) compromise. Within these groups one finds cliques that may dicker according to which way the wind blows. This last group is known as the floaters. What makes simple categorisation difficult is that the floaters or "sunset heroes" as I call them are many and the boundaries between the two groups are not clearly marked. In the past both the army and cops competed for the drug trade (as they do now), smuggling and the influence of regional mafia not to mention the control of big business in Bangkok. For the past ten years or so the cops have had the upper hand and still do when it comes to Bangkok. Right now however the balance of power (down to mid rank level) is slowly shifting to the military and a showdown of sorts is expected. It has taken three months so far to fill every public institution, government monopoly and business board with the hundreds of generals tweedling their fingers and waiting in line (as is dictated by the fraternity of Military Academy the latest retirees of which graduated in 1959.) What this means is that for every board member appointed, for every retired general who gets a cushy position there is an ex-cop or business-mafia chap getting the boot. The subtle nebulous way of it all is an object study of a thoroughly dodgy society.

TUG OF WAR

Also the amount of money the army boys have so far pilfered in the past three months is amazing. When the stock market crashed last week and recovered the following day most of the foreign holding was gobbled up by the Thais at a lower value. That is, the overall loss in the market was transferred to foreigners or foreign institutional buyers. All the payments the army boys have collected so far would by now be circulating in the stock market and into legit businesses such as upcountry real estate (a traditional laundering sector). Slowly vast amounts of wealth is exchanging hands.

Thais are master background: oblivious, impervious and comatose. No idea about anything and don't want to know. Around age 4-5 they are taught not to think and ask questions. They quickly disappear into the auditory hidden world and scheme. They robotically follow the line but resent everything. By 12 they resent life itself and are completely alienated. Also the introverted ego is well adjusted for malign schemes. One sociologist has an interesting thing on Indonesians who do the same thing. They seem to be more articulate about how they create an interior private world. Anyway it gives rise to endless agendum that is nothing if not tedious.

There is the tug of war going on. The Lampang standoff in 1951 between the army and cops for a warehouse full of KMT heroine from Burma is the classic and best example I know of. So in an immoral amoral society they play checkmate because no one can leave the country. A set of finite permutations start to roll. So you wonder what these guys are after. Of course it is making the recent mia noi happy at last and getting a new one. It means being able to afford better Scotch, get a big Benz and finally after loads of land, a new house. No ethics. Just grab but in an interesting limited way. You might say evil that is 'balanced' (in the Buddhist way) and that's why Thaksin had to go, he drifted out of balance, over the line. But still nice to see all the bleating about Moslems.

Prufrock says:

Camuschula: I like your Chavalit-goofster scenario first, then the rank and file Thaksinista thing, then Dicer's "juniors".
In that order.
Sadly, people got killed and horribly maimed but just enough of them to make the point.
That's just not where "Al Qaeda" is at this juncture if it were, Al Qaeda could just pop into Nana Plaza with four C4 demo-hammers any time they want. The whole place would be down in one minute. Infidels, loose women, bad Muslims all in one go. They love that shit.

"An entertainment complex popular with Western tourists." I can see it now.

The resulting fire/dust ball would roll up onto the Landmark and smudge up the building's soi 4 elevation. Perfect for the CNN crew's morning shoot of the ruins.
They love that shit as well.

But for THIS one, if I were of a suspicious nature, and I most certainly am, I'd be sniffing around "barracks and stations" for signs of the inevitable post-trauma squabbling between the permission grantors and the "Waynegrove crew" that "over"-did this thing.(Heat)

Common's Al Qaeda theorizing, while wildly popular with this site's Rush Limbaugh armchair set, because it plays into their current "world-view" is a non-starter.
Barrett's wannabe followers and the Neocon Astro-turfers buy this stuff though. They're always up for a dose of no-brainer, anti-Islamic calumny.
That way they don't have to read or think.
It's less painful. The light's better out there. Saddam's supposed "links" to 9/11 comes to mind.
Just wastes time.
Look where that shit got them.

bangkokram says:

Commonsense is on the money! Two days before I had relations over from the UK, they asked about security in Bangkok?
I predicted a big bomb for 2007 in BKK, the Southern Muslim Insurgents aren't getting anywhere with the current wave of killings in the south, so gearing up for a big show would seem in order. With help from foreign nationals and money from the middle east, who knows what will be next?
What would Thaksin or his supporters gain by killing and maiming Thai and Farang? Nothing, so what's the point?
Dicer is also spot on with the apathy that is shown to current and past events by Thai's.
Dana, if Nana does get it, the only rush to Soi 3 will be the Soi 3 inhabitants scrambling back to the Grace Hotel before CNN catches them on film!

Prufrock says:

Common: You've had explosives training but it doesn't necessarily follow from this basic training that, as you said,
"This attack was more advanced than you give it credit for. Not to be taken lightly."
Your handle is Common Sense not "Leap of Faith" They are not interchangeable.
I mean, just how did you get to that?

This type of dodgy surmise is just the kind of conjecture that got you guys into Iraq. Four years ago it was Bush and "Butterfly McQueen" (Rice) and their mushroom cloud rhetoric. Stop this shit. It's stupid.

Some other "faith based" conclusions which have nothing to do with your training:
"The timing mechanisms used show an advanced level of sophistication even most in the Thai military would likely not know. (How the hell could you ever know this? This is a little above your pay grade, chum.)
The military uses dummy proof detonating and timing methods. The use of wristwatches shows sophistication meaning outside expertise was likely employed(i.e. Al Qaeda).
This is pure conjecture. You use your fundamental knowledge of explosives to "street cred" this jibber-jabber. Stop this shit, Common. It doesn't fly.

Whether you get bonused to type out this kind of conjecture or not, this kind of fuzzy stuff is called Astro-turfing. It's called "chumming" as well.
You discredit yourself among intelligent people when you get into this or encourage it in others.
If one cares at all about the truth, one does not muddy the issue with false surmise.
It's counter-productive.
I am beginning to think that perhaps you just don't care about that.

Snowbird says:

As a Canadian who has vacationed in Thailand regularly for the last 10 years, I am intrigued by the activity in BKK in the last month. First the SET restricts foreign investment and the American dollar devalues 12% in one day
(although the Canadian dollar stayed about the same). On Christmas Day Bangkok was in the news again when a man from Alberta was murdered in his in-laws apartment in Bangers and then we had the extra-super fireworks demonstrations on New Year's Eve really ending the year with a bang. Today Canadians are being advised not to travel to Thailand unnecessarily.
At first the local (Ottawa) media attributed the bombings to the muslim insurgents in the south. Made sense.
They have been shooting and burning Buddhist monks and school-teachers down there as of late. Today the Canuck media is following the lead of the Bangkok Post and assigning the blame to supporters of the Taksin-led political party. I tend to concur with this assessment. From my experience with police in Thailand, I wouldn't put it past them to be behind this. Wasn't Taksin (sic) a policeman once? Maybe the reason the police haven't caught the perpetrators is because it IS the police. Why would they blow up a police traffic booth then, you may ask? I would counter that it is a smokescreen (no pun intended). The oldest diversionary tactic in the book. Or maybe the detonator watch that they bought at Patpong night-market was defective and the bomb they were making went off prematurely.
Also, I really question the wisdom of having muslims (i.e. the army generals) in control of the government when they are the in the minority.
Think I'll winter in the Caribbean this year.
p.s. I just got introduced to your web-site recently and I have to say it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Some of the forums are laughing-til-your side-hurts funny.

Common Sense says:

Prufrock,
I'm sorry if I've disturbed the cozy little bubble that you live in. Unfortunately pretending this never happened will not solve the problem, and neither will picking the least sinister culprit. I'll go ahead and address your questions now as I have nothing better to do at the moment.

"This attack was more advanced than you give it credit for. Not to be taken lightly." I mean, just how did you get to that?

Ummm COMMON FUCKIN SENSE. Do you really think a couple of village idiots dreamed this up. Terrorist attacks of this nature (i.e. multiple coordinated bombings) require leadership to dream up the idea, operational figures to direct the coordination, and foot soldiers. Look at the recent bombings in London. No one ever called them simple now did they. They just used a more powerful explosive. Exact same MO was used in Bangkok. No media reports have yet called this a haphazard operation and all refer to it as complex and well planned. Here's an expert opinion on the sophistication. The author only speculates as to who did this, but clearly states the operation was sophisticated.

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/12/
new_years_eve_bombs_shake_up_b.php

"The timing mechanisms used show an advanced level of sophistication even most in the Thai military would likely not know. (How the hell could you ever know this? This is a little above your pay grade, chum.)

Ever hear of Cobra Gold? Who do you think goes and trains the Thai military dumbass. Above my pay grade, HA. Who do you think and officer comes to for their information. They just regurgitate what I would tell them. Most couldn't even assemble and explosive device. My level of training goes way above the basic type you ASSUME I have.

"The military uses dummy proof detonating and timing methods. The use of wristwatches shows sophistication meaning outside expertise was likely employed(i.e. Al Qaeda)." This is pure conjecture.

Well I use the dummy proof detonating methods jackass. For the first 9 months after the invasion of Iraq, insurgents were using unsophisticated IED's to attack US troop. Generally, command detonated using radio wire and a battery. Basic military type training that didn't allow much leeway for Jihad Joe to escape though. As Al Qaeda expanded their influence, the IED's became more sophisticated. They began using cell phones, cooking timers, Motorola radios, garage door openers, etc, etc, etc....

I truly hope this is the work of some disgruntled government workers. I by no means want Jihad Joe fuckin around in my favorite vacation spot. Ignoring possibilities and theories because they discomfort the cozy little bubble you live in is by no means counter-productive.

moleskine says:

Common Sense wrote: "The use of wristwatches shows sophistication meaning outside expertise was likely employed(i.e. Al Qaeda)."
and "The bombs were made of ammonium nitrate."

Where do you get your information from, Common Sense?

This is from The Nation:
"Police General Ajiravid Subarnbhesaj said all eight bombs were placed in 3x5-inch boxes and detonated by digital alarm clock. The most interesting part was that traces of M4 high explosive booster were found in all of the bombs.
The fact that M4, officially a controlled item, was found to have been used lent weight to the theory that the bomb attacks may have been an inside job - either rogue military or a police clique looking to discredit the junta and the current administration."

"Wristwatches" and "digital alarm clocks", while having similar functions, are not the same thing. Maybe you should pass your inside information on to the Police General, Common Sense?

Bob says:

I can't seem to get information yet, but I hear that today (Tuesday) two more bombs exploded in Bangkok -- one at Central in Lat Phao. And too, that two bombs exploded yesterday in Chang Mai and one was found in Pattaya but disarmed before going off. Is this true, anyone know? The online Bangkok Post has nothing...CNN nothing...etc.etc.

TANAI KWAI says:

"Cobra Gold... Works EVERY time."

--Billy Dee Williams for Cobra Gold Malt Liquor

Dicer says:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6106398.stm

Well there it is..Univeristy of Somalia or Uni of Mogadishu...Anyone of the failed English teachers in Thailand and commando wannabies wants to teach a course in refusing khat and still man your antiaircraft gun. Here is a chance.

(Common Sense can chime in here and give us a hand.)

Course Structure.

IKAAF The Introduction
Introducing Khat and Anti Aircraft Firing
Course begins at 8 00 am and breaks for khat time. Afternoon live practice on Ethiopian aircraft...notes required. Must be able to quickly alter weapon from stiff range (200 feet) to 30,000 feet bomber. Also included as an extra, how to level the weapon and point blank eliminate things like enemy trucks, tanks or other vehicles. Issue: one helmet and one set of gloves. Final exam: bring down 1 recon aircraft, 1 fighter, 1 bomber.

What do you say CS?

btw....

Bush was interviewed and he said the personal highlight of his presidency was catching a 4 kilo perch in his lake. Actually the perch answer was probably the only lucid moment this guy has had. Just drop the rest of it and say something Zen that the Texas farmers will understand. Funny and real.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4982338.stm

Common Sense says:

Moleskine,
Here is one of the links I saw today regarding wristwatches.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/
0,8599,1573283,00.html

There were others but I'm tired and don't feel like finding them all before going to bed so 1 link will have to suffice.

Here is a link that says a grenade was thrown from an overhead bridge.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/
bombs-spark-bangkok-travel-warnings/
2007/01/01/1167500052077.html

Doesn't fit your claims that all the bombs were enclosed in 3x5 inch boxes now does it.

Here is a link with the ammonium nitrate claim.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/
thaksin-followers-blamed-for-blasts/
2007/01/01/1167500061822.html

Again, there were several others. Do your own research before questioning mine next time. A lot of unclear information is being presented and it will likely take a few days before a clearer picture emerges of what happened.

An M4 is a BOOSTER charge used to set off a larger explosive. Refer to my previous post regarding electric blasting caps(i.e. booster charges). If necessary I'll bore the masses of Mango Sauce tomorrow with some explosive theory but I'm not in the mood at the moment. You can do this yourself by googling the keywords

FM 5-34 (Engineer Field Manual detailing many explosive charges and their initiation systems)

Electric blasting systems

Do a little of your own research before questioning mine. Either one of us could be proven wrong with the determined outcome of this, but you will not prove me wrong on anything dealing with explosives without some technical expertise.

Oops, almost forgot to mention that just because something is a controlled item does not mean it cannot be obtained. Ever hear of the black market. Southern Thais can easily import from Burma.

TANAI KWAI says:

I've read that the Muslim terror hobbyists in the South don't generally claim responsibility for their acts. Perhaps this has been because in the past such admissions would have been superfluous.

But in this case, if the identity of the glorious criminal masterminds is being cast into serious doubt by disinformation, you would think that the real perpetrators would pipe up. (I mean, how frustrating would it be for a Jihadi to go to the time and expense to blow up a building in the name of Moqtada Moqtada Moqtada -- only to have the Animal Liberation Front get all the credit because someone noticed that the third floor housed a sales office for a shampoo company that tests on bunnies?)

Likewise, if the Muslims are not behind this wouldn't there at least be a modest chance they would say so? "Folks, we didn't fuck up the party. Peace be upon you, for the time being."

This is all terribly confusing. There must be another explanation, such as what has been suggested above. If not the Muslims, maybe it was an unsupervised frolic by Thaksinistas acting alone and disconnected from the leadership -- in the style of an al Qaeda cell.

Khun Jo says:

"Likewise, if the Muslims are not behind this wouldn't there at least be a modest chance they would say so?", said Tanai Kwai

Who says they have not assumed responsibility? They just have not done it through the media. Just thinking that this would be a thing our beloved PM would like
keep for his ears only and easily could hide from the public. Furthermore I was wondering if anyone knows if the seperatists down south use the web as a source of communication to the public?
I have yet too see the muslim seperatists denying their involvement, in fact I have yet too see any media asking their leaders if they are involved in this matter. However Mr. Thaksin has denied his involvement numerous times lately. Why would he comment on this matter if he was trying to gain more support of oppositionals in Thailand. Wouldnt Thaksin be smarter if he just shut up and let his followers believe that he was actually capable of doing such a thing??

Well many things does not add up considering the recent bombings.. And the more time flies by before someone gets caught the less is the chance of the public knowing the truth as always in Thailand...

Dana says:

Ok,I'll say it--nice to see Tanai Kwai back. With him and Dicer both keyboard hovering my ego diminishment is final and complete. And I find myself in complete agreement with the mighty Kwaister on this one. Additional speculation on who the bombers were is futile because none of this makes any sense. We have crimes and no motives--the peskiest problem for the police.

Prufrock says:

Common: I can see you're positively giddy with all this support you're getting from the likes of these bangkokram et al. losers.
After "sort of" predicting that something like this would happen our pundit then pontificated this impressive prescience over Guinesses to visiting friends from "over'ome"
He then concludes because he predicted a bomb attack that it had to be Muslims
(betcha he was more likely envisaging another Bali, though . . . but this'll do, won't it?)
Logical leaps like this are silly. They are unhelpful.
Stop this nonsense right now.
But it appears that one can garner quite a bit of support from all the peckerheads who don't even live right here in the "bubble".
This pandering to the cheap seats, however tempting, is unworthy of you.

Please do me the courtesy of recusing your "pretending this did not happen" nonsense.
This blatantly false attribution is in violation of our tacit agreement to raise the bar on the level of discourse in our exchanges.

Prufrock says:

Common. Sorry you're not in our Bangkok bubble. We could do this face to face. (For some reason I actually trust you.)
Dude, leaps of faith and dodgy attributions now truffle your posts in Rove-like profusion and you're seeding them with Limbaugh-like abandon. . . a sure sign you feel under attack by brains that matter to you.
But you're rapidly losing credibility with those you seek to convince. You need to read more than your training manuals to get a handle on this.
Cheap seats love it, though.
Stop calling me names. It's stupid. We're not on some shit-stick parade ground.

Prufrock says:

Tanai Kwai, "...if the Muslims are not behind this wouldn't there at least be a modest chance they would say so? "Folks, we didn't fuck up the party. Peace be upon you, for the time being."

Yeah. Fer Shure. Something like that anyway. It'd make my day a lot easier.
Hmmmm. (Scratching his chin.) Perhaps they have done so already?

(Less post/ more prowl . . . words to live by for 2007 But, then again I can balance the two quite nicely. One's day and one's night;-)
I love this country! :-)))

carl says:

The plot does thicken. I say unleash the services of MI5, Scotland Yard, and the Brits in general on this mystery. In fact, if left to their own devices, I bet they could get the whole Iraqi quagmire together in short order.

After all, the experience of querilla fighting and house to house interrogation/beatings was their forte' when IRA bombings were the order of the day. I say good on ya!

However, such was their success that the murdering criminal Gerry Adams is actually a legitimate figure walking freely down the street today. A stretched neck would look good on him as well me thinks.

Whoever the perpetrators are, they are connected, and it's going to take blowtorches, hacksaws, and electrified anal probes to get to the bottom of this.

Dicer says:

Did somebody mention SHAMPOO and BUNNIES. OK let's change bunnies to mutants and what do we get? The clash of the clueless against the mindless. Right out of warnings from the Upanishads.

The Noodle Liberation Front idea of the insurgency is to get the mutants not only to sniff shampoo but to become shampoo guinea pigs. Even better...The first step of the anti noodle uprising is to blow up all the Tesco shampoo aisles in the country...yeah, hit them below the belt...you can see millions of slum people rolling waiting in the sois because they can't sniff anything.

The manuals are the following:

The End of Noodles and The Last Mutant
by Sombat Fukuyama.

The Clash of The Bamii Moo vs Gumbo eaters
by Somboon Huntington.

The Protocols of the Elders of Saraburi**
by Khun Laek Phibunsongkram III

**Saraburi being the place where pure master race central Thais come from. According to Phibun anyway.

Common Sense says:

Prufrock,
I've displayed no signs of giddiness, or even aknowledged any supportive posts. I waste quite enough thread space dealing with you. Anyways, since you wont listen to an arguement other than the one you want to hear let's have your side.

You previously stated:

"There’s other stuff going on here.
As the facts surrounding this vicious New Year’s Eve campaign become more apparent we will, I am afraid, discover indications of far more sinister importance to foreign long-stay residents."

What other stuff is going on here?

What facts have not been brought up here?

What could be more sinister than Jihad Joe and company setting up shop in Bangkok?

AL Qaeda linked terrorists would bring the worst blow to the Thai economy as it would drive away the most tourists. Everyone's pretty much used to the government fuckin up by now. They have been doing it for so long no one bats an eye unless it tampers with their visa.

I have read far to many news stories and counter-terrorism blogs on this matter and cannot find any proof of a connection to anyone. The Thai authorities are offering up nothing and focusing almost entirely on Government forces. Yet they are getting nowhere. Did you ever think they might be digging in the wrong whole? Are you so adamant against this idea because it threatens you PERSONAL BUBBLE?

Elaborate on your thought's on this matter instead of attacking mine.

Bangkok Bad Boy says:

Carl: I too remember the IRA, and it's a sign of overly-nostalgic times that I'm harking back to the days when terrorists actually knew a thing or two about blowing things up properly.

It's funny how to Brits over a certain age, the stereotypical "terrorist" is envisaged as an Irishman in a balaclava with a van full of Semtex, whereas to the Yanks he's a koran-clutching brown dude with a suicide bomb belt (or a 767).

The point is, it's foolish for anyone to be predicting who the perpetrators were at this stage. Yes, an "al-Qaeda" attack would almost certainly have targetted westerners, which these bombs didn't.

I think someone already pointed out that the Oklahoma City bombing was followed by a frenzied spate of anti-Muslim finger-pointing - they all looked a bit silly when Mr McVeigh stepped forward, didn't they?

Rampant racism in the absence of evidence just makes certain posters look like ignorant fools. Let's be thankful that the damage was frankly irrelevant on the grand scale of things, and get on with the whoring.

moleskine says:

Common Sense wrote- "Doesn't fit your claims that all the bombs were enclosed in 3x5 inch boxes now does it."

I'm not making any claims at all. I'm quoting a source, which should have some authority, and it seems to be at variance with what you're claiming, particularly in regard to inference. It is possible to quote information without agreeing with it. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested in points of view and expertise other than your own, and I suspect I'm not alone here in that. I'm new to this forum, but your stance is pretty obnoxious, almost stereotypically gung-ho GI Joe. I wonder--are you for real?
Here's a quote I do endorse-
"Rampant racism in the absence of evidence just makes certain posters look like ignorant fools."

Prufrock says:

Common re: Other stuff: I've suggested you read your Thai history from 1930 onwards. I can't "sound bite " seventy years for you and there are no "Coles Notes." What else can I really do? Or would that be another unwise use of your time? Sure it's easier to paint it green and start some US shit here.

These "terrorism" websites you constantly peruse have their own agenda are lacking in any perspective vis. this attack. They serve the US agenda which is to perpetrate an endless war. You've clearly bought into this. You will not be moved by the likes of me or anyone who disproves/demonstrates/debates/argues anything to the contrary. You have too much invested. “Functional fixedness”?

Re the Muslim thing vis. the Bangkok New Year's Eve bombings: The old joke about the lost keys comes to mind. The drunk's sure he left them somewhere in his hotel room but he and his buddies thought they'd have a look for them in the lobby because the light's better there.

I must conclude that you have not even attempted to address my "leap pf logic" accusation because you have trouble with the concept of logic.
The Rush$ Ann$ Hannity$ Bill$ NeoconAstro-turfer crowd have fucked up the thought processes of your country in much the same way Disco fucked up Rock & Roll.
Not everything that happens on the planet can be turned to grist for the US propaganda mill.
Especially this.
Again do your research.

As for your wasting your valuable time replying to my objections to your outright speculations and leaps of logic and method.
Don't bother.
Just ignore them.

Prufrock says:

Moleskine: Lots of support for your input. Loads of us HERE IN BANGKOK agree with you and many of us on both sides of these questions still observe the "pre talk-radio" rules of logic and debate. Many don't.
That's the web.
I believe, "Opinion is not fact and fact is not opinion."
For some reason Common likes to position himself as a kind of authority (his journeyman's knowledge of explosives is clearly his own (- sorry. I don't wanna get triangulated here) but CS extrapolates his "expertise from this to all areas and insists he is right about matters geopolitical.
CS, happily, survived over a year and a half in Iraq. He looked for and decommissioned explosives. …..both the warehoused kind and the ready-to-wear kind. He survived that and now he's in Japan. He clearly misses his Thai Cobra Gold experiences and his monger's Thailand. He's a good sort. Seeks fairness, I suppose.

But our Common is no Scott Ritter. That’s for sure.

CS equates "common sense" with leaps of faith. I figure he's sincere, though. To contradict him is to lack -you guessed it- common sense.
I'm thinkin' Astro-turfer. Voluntary or involuntary they're all over the web. They'll try to wear you down by making you "bring it to them." Some are paid and some are in it for brownie points and some are just know-it-alls. With CS it would be web-gleaned factoids, info sites politically compatable with his views, "talking points" and "set-piece" ad hominem rebuttal, outrageously unfounded conclusions, non sequitur as "proven" fact.
Astro-turfers play to the cheap seats and to those too lazy to do their own research.
ON THE OTHER HAND
If you scroll back over my “Prufrock,” “Johnny Tokyo” and “notImtaizMuqbil” posts you'll see that I'm a real prick. Some would say asshole. Others well, you’ll see if you scroll back.
Don't be like me.
The girls won't like you ;-)

Be well, Dude

Loose Cannon says:

Dana ..."Take a traffic accident for example: first instincts are to run, and to hide, and to lie, and to not accept responsibility, and to blame others, and to bribe. These are not the instincts and character traits of people that can triumph over diversity."

I think it descibes your average American perfectly.

"On average, 4 people will die in the United States today because of a hit and run driver."
"The number of pedestrians killed by hit-and-run drivers has jumped 20% since 2000 and is at its highest level in a decade, a USA TODAY analysis shows."
"....974(pedestrians)died in hit-and-runs, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration records show."

Looper says:

I heard that one of the bombs went off in the Nana hotel causing $4,500 worth of improvements.

Nasty Nick says:

This is the way i see it. No way was it an outside Job from anyone who does not know Bangkok. They reported that many of the Bombs were palced in trash bins. I doubt that there are more than 6 in the whole of Bangkok. Must be Thai who else would you walk through Bangkok with a timer on a bomb brought from a dodgy watch stall in Patpong.

Common Sense says:

Moleskine,
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I'm a stubborn asshole. Your earlier post was a cocky attempt to try and discredit me and you failed. I'm open to all opinions and lately have been giving thought to Tanai Kwai's suggestion of Thaksanista's using Al Qaeda techniques. What I am not open to is blindly ending any dissenting discussion as Prufrock suggests we do.

There would be nothing to discuss here if we all agreed so why not throw about different points of view. There’s no proof either way but in my opinion the little evidence there is points toward Jihad Joe. Some out there (Prufrock) don't want to hear this for whatever reason, but have yet to provide anything to discredit the theory. You cannot eliminate suspects based upon your wishes alone.

I hear a lot of talk about intelligent conversation here. What is intelligent about prescribing to 'Group Think'.

Bangkok Bad Boy has had the best suggestion so far. "Let's get back to whoring!"

Prufrock says:

BBB said: "get on with the whoring."

Indeed!

Prufrock

Ian says:

Bangkokbadboy writes : Yes, an "al-Qaeda" attack would almost certainly have targetted westerners, which these bombs didn't.

Westerners were targeted, that is to say bombs were left in "touristy "areas.
The police were also targeted I have read that bombs were also left at police boxes.

Saeb says:

Bombs are horrible and indiscriminate.
They shred the faces of women and (I love the expression), 'traumatically amputate' children.
Whoever has any feeling of nostalgia for the IRA is a sick puppy.
They were extremely good at making bombs and as a person who has had to retrieve pieces of people from phone lines - well, get it?.

Thailand's Dirty Secret says:

Somewhere in the comments to Mango Sauce there's a reference to some dark and disturbing dirty secret in Thailand, and a link to a blog called Thailand's Dirty Secret, which had a couple of mysterious entries hinting at something horrible. I wish I'd taken copies of them, because the blog is down now. Here's what I found at the Google blog search facility:

Baan Sao Nak
19 Dec 2006 by CharlieH
Baan Sao Nak , a Lanna-style wooden house. Called the "House of Many Pillars",
this traditional Northern Thai teakwood mansion is filled with Thai and Burmese
antiques and handicrafts. But those who come here on their western package ...
Secret Thailand - http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.html

A Thai Secret
18 Dec 2006 by CharlieH
Very recently I was let in on a little secret about Thailand; a dirty secret
it does not want the outside world to know about. Should it ever become common
knowledge on a global scene a national loss of face would have to be endured for ...
Thailand's dirty secret - http://thailandsdirtysecret.blogspot.com/index.htmlBaan

-----which isn't much less than the full pages had, in terms of information. I remember the Baan Sao Nak page referred to a "grisly secret", but it wasn't clear if it was the same secret as the other page, where I remember something about "within a certain industry" this secret being known, and death could be the result of telling what you know.

Anybody got any idea of what's going on?

moleskine says:

Common Sense wrote- "Your earlier post was a cocky attempt to try and discredit me and you failed."
If you are for real, you're a very strange man. If someone set out to write texts portraying America(ns) as bigoted and paranoid, they'd come up with something very close to your comments here. As an American myself, I'd like to distance myself from you and your delusional attitudes as far as possible. You represent nobody but yourself.

Bangkok Bad Boy says:

Ian: shopping centres and bus stations are not western areas, or at least not what I meant.

If this had been an "al-Qaeda" attack targeting westerners, they would have reduced Patpong, Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza to piles of smoking rubble, on the stroke of midnight, with no warning whatsoever. Or if not those, then other western-only areas.

True, there was an evacuation at the Buddy Bar on Khao San Road. I'm allergic to backpackers, so I know nothing about the place, I'm assuming it's a "farang" bar.

Yes, that evacuation could have been due to an unexploded bomb, or it could have been due to a suspicious-looking paper bag containing a couple of discarded banana fritters. Haven't seen any statement to confirm either way yet - do correct me if I'm wrong.

Saeb: the IRA comment was tongue-in-cheek; I know people who were involved on both sides and have no desire to re-open that can of worms.

My point, if I had one, was that there was a time when "Acts of Terror" left hundreds dead instead of 3, but we didn't bleat on about it quite so much. We got on with life then, when the threat was arguably far greater, and should do so now.

Zaphod says:

"The point is, it's foolish for anyone to be predicting who the perpetrators were at this stage. Yes, an "al-Qaeda" attack would almost certainly have targetted westerners, which these bombs didn't."

The islamist bombing campaign in South has been targetting Thais. There is nothing surprising about this campaign now reaching to the capital of Thailand, in fact it was only a matter of time.

Camuschula says:

"The point is, it's foolish for anyone to be predicting who the perpetrators were at this stage. Yes, an "al-Qaeda" attack would almost certainly have targetted westerners, which these bombs didn't."

The islamist bombing campaign in South has been targetting Thais. There is nothing surprising about this campaign now reaching to the capital of Thailand, in fact it was only a matter of time.

Posted by Zaphod | January 3, 2007 11:24 PM

Dude, and all others who don't quite grasp this concept,

Al Qaeda, the situation in the South, and the current political squabbles between the military junta and the Thaksinistas are entirely unrelated--except when it comes to the blame game.

The situation in the South has been going on for hundreds of years. There has always been Malay Muslim rebellion against the powers at be in Ayutthaya/Bangkok.

Not all Muslims look alike, act alike, and have the same beef. I wish people would get a clue.

Sow Baht says:

"Somewhere in the comments to Mango Sauce there's a reference to some dark and disturbing dirty secret in Thailand, and a link to a blog called Thailand's Dirty Secret, which had a couple of mysterious entries hinting at something horrible..."

Looks like Keith Summers is out and about again

Common Sense says:

Moleskine,
I knew that statement was going to draw protest from you, but left it in there anyways. When you use someones name at the end of every question it puts of a cocky and conceited tone. For example:

Where do you get your information from, Common Sense?

How much do you really know, Prufrock?

Can you ever provide proof, Prufrock?

Kind of comes off like a teacher or parent scolding a child. Seemed fairly well intended to be that way too. If I misread your tone I apologize, if not I hope you trip over a midget walking through Nana and land face first on a ladyboys erect cock, thereby poking your eye out.

Have a nice day!

Blowfish says:

Today one never knows exactly who the enemy is, nor does one know where the enemy lies. Enemies surround us.

Is this the dream of the future?

Common Sense says:

Prufrock,
You will not be moved by the likes of me or anyone who disproves/demonstrates/debates/argues anything to the contrary.

What have you disproved?

What have you demonstrated?

What have you debated?

What have you argued?

You have only said I'm wrong and offer nothing to back up your stance. You say I should read 70 years of Thai history to discover the true meaning of your thoughts. We'll I've read through 3 years worth of Dicer posts and that's more than enough Thai history for me. At least he can provide references while rambling on about shooting bunnies with anti-aircraft guns and Bush gets sucked off by a village tart while catching a 7 pound perch. You provide nothing, a sign of laziness.

I guess the saying is correct though, You cant teach and old dog new tricks.

Dana says:

95% of all Dicer's and Tanai Kwai's agree: it is time to end this thread.

Prufrock says:

Common. Wrong again. I did not say this:
“blindly (end) any dissenting discussion as Prufrock suggests we do.”

I said this

(If you feel you're) wasting your
valuable time replying to my objections to your outright speculations and leaps of logic and method.
Don't bother.
Just ignore them.

They are not the same.
I resent your suggestion that answering my rebuttals of your logical fallacies and your leaps to conclusion was a drain on your valuable time. so I suggested you ignore them.

Or . . . you can deal with them properly and within context.
So far I can list about three instances where I have taken the time to point out the same logical fallacy while at the same time taking pains to avoid impugning your expertise with explosives and your military training.
Your answer to these criticisms?
Well first you inflated a notion that you were doing us all a favor by answering my objections. You’ve done this repeatedly and with several threads I might add.
That’s just crap rhetoric. Jive-ass jibber-jabber. Bullshit.
Then you constructed supposed existential "bubbles" for me, (Egads!!, Shades of Galt's latest gobbledy-gook) and stated that I preferred to think that this vicious attack had not happened. F*ck man, I was here. All set to go to Central World.
Some f*cking bubble.

When I pointed out again that you were JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS and not using "COMMON F*CKING SENSE" you simply ignored that. You appear to believe that these leaps of faith of yours are manifestations of common sense. (More jive. They are, instead faulty logical constructs.)
At almost every juncture when other posters expose your penchant for logical and semantic fallacy you reframe their objections in vulnerable form and then attack your version of what was said. You went after Moleskine in this way.
Know how you’ll better save your valuable time? Read before you type.
Dude, I am afraid it is you, who in spite of all your protestations to the contrary, may be doing this bubble thing. . . . . . or at least limiting yourself to an examination of the facts yielded within reduced parameters.
Again, Common, read your Thai history. Especially accounts of police/army rivalry vis. Bangkok. That’s the sinister element I referred to. I can’t do it for you.

I most certainly DID consider your Muslim thing but rejected it "out of hand" after watching the story unfold in the Thai media.
Based on what I know and the Thai history I have read I'm hedging a Thaksinista vs. "juniors" bet at the moment. That probably will not change without solid evidence placing Al Qaeda jihadis at the scene. So far they haven’t taken credit like they do everywhere else “the base” funds or promulgates local Islamics into direct action.
I got this army/junior version once again last night from the proverbial “Bangkok taxi driver.” ( I sa-peak decent Thai) I assure you, this was NOT something he got from the media.
If in the unlikely event your Al Qaeda theory is evidenced by fact I will concede the whole issue. But I will NOT be MUSHROOM CLOUDED “Butterfly McQueen style, into painting this thing green

This highly UNLIKELY concession would be based on new evidence which places the Southern Muslim al Qaeda-conscripted jihadis at the scene, not because of your fallacious LEAPS OF LOGIC. . . . . your military training, your surfing of highly biased anti-terrorism websites, your invocation of Jihad-Jo, our new “global enemy”.
I remember “the VC”, “Charlie”, “Hadji” and now we have your facile world terrorist, Jihad Jo.

regards
Prufrock

Johnny says:

Very sad.

They go around shooting teachers, monks and children protecting their father. What about that teacher that was bashed into a coma by the normal villagers, and still hasn't woken up ?

Would the bombings stop if those 3 Southern provinces did have independance ? If they did become seperate from Thailand, would this be beneficial for anyone at all living there ? What is their problem, are they only taught to hate and kill non-muslims and make life difficult for everyone ? That's an easy game to play, yet everyone else does the opposite towards them by being tolerant, understanding, helpful, yet they still carry on.

I haven't been there and don't know the full story. It is a concern about the increasing violence and the fact that nothing seems to be working in terms of civil negotiations.

Prufrock says:

Nasty Nick: More trash cans is it now?
Are you sir, then, actually lobbying for MORE TRASH CANS here in Bangkok?
Common sense would dictate that in these perilous times you hold off on this most self-serving of requests.
Like many of us, you've stumbled around in the afternoon heat for an extra ten minutes scouring the Sukhumvit Rd. for a bin. . . and ended up spitting your gum into a potted palm.
That's a tourist crime, Nasty Nick.
It's like touching someone's head.
It's like pointing your feet.
It's a dereliction of responsibility!
Akin to not blowing great wads of baht like a drunken sailor. (Shaw-ping)
You must be punished!
Reach into those multi-pocketed Camel Adventure Pants of yours!
Fork over that TWO f*cking grand (2000 THB) fine to the lazy-ass garbage cops brandishing that wad of dirt encrusted chewing gum.
The alternative is give in to el Qaeda's wishes and install more garbage bins.
Then it's just a slippery slope to doom.
More trash cans = more terrorist bombs

Ya hafta be thankin' lake one'o them el Qu-ai-ee-da fellers, these days er yer jes' not thankin' stra-ight, Chai mai?

Am I right or do you lack common sense?

Prufrock

bangkokram says:

Poorock, sorry for agreeing with CS and spiking your reply.

You can lead a horse to water, but.....

Camuschula says:

Pru-

There is no use in debating with "there is an Al Qaeda terrorist under every rock" crowd, because they suffer from cognitive dissonance. Like you've said many times before, they got their Limbaughs, O'Reillys, Hannitys and Coulters to do their thinking for them.

These are the folks who still believe Saddam and Osama were buggering buddies back at Madrassah U.

Is Al Qaeda a threat? Sure. Bush idiocy has made sure of that.

Are the centuries old radical Islamic movements in the peripheries of Southeast Asia the same thing as Osama sitting in a cave in Afganistan dreaming up 9/11 part 2?

Don't think so.

But hey, if it looks brown, speaks with a foreign accent, and eats a falafel, shoot first and and blame Clinton later.

Common Sense says:

Prufrock,
I was not referring to that post. I was referring primarily to your first 2 posts where you suggested no one mention Al Qaeda because this would dilute intelligent conversation and get it off course. Basically you were saying, this cannot be a possibility so lets not talk about it. Anyways, you've proven to be a closed minded fool, unable to even acknowledge any opinions contrary to your own as even being plausible. I believe our conversations are becoming a distracting annoyance to the masses of Mango Sauce. I will be adding your name to the list of people I refuse to respond to. Here's the list:

1. Road Natzi
2. Prufrock

Should I also add Johnny Tokyo and not ImtiazMuqbil? Posts of late have led me to believe that these handles may also be your own.

divad says:

i agree CS is talking more sense than Pru-iweara-Frock.

Common Sense says:

More quotes from the all knowing Thai government.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070104/
ts_nm/thailand_bombs_dc

Defense Minister General Boonrod Somtat continued to rule out foreign terrorist groups and Muslim militants fighting Bangkok's rule in the far south, despite some similarities in style.

"So, there are only those inside the country left -- the civilians, police and armed forces both in khaki and green," he told reporters.

I guess them southern insurgents just aint inside the country. Possibly they didn't get the memo that they were annexed since they are still fighting for independence.

and another

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070104/
wl_afp/thailandattacksblast_070104111457

"Forensics tests found that the bombs were similar to those used in the south, but I can reassure you that they are not exactly the same," army-installed Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont told the parliament.

"That is why we have concluded that the bombings had nothing to do with the south, and rather that the ill-intentioned perpetrators are in Bangkok," he said.

We have the prime ministers assurances. No need for evidence with that now is there. Fine detective work.

Camuschula
I've never listened to Limbaugh, O'reilly, although sometimes amusing makes my blood boil, and who the fuck are Hannity and Coulter. I don't watch T.V. often. I actually haven't had one for the majority of the last 7 years and don’t have one now.

If you don't think Al Qaeda has influence in SE Asia google Dr. Zachary Abuza. He's one of the leading experts on the subject. But he couldn't possibly know what he's talking about since he's American right?

Prufrock says:

Common 100% INVENTED: "You say I should read 70 years of Thai history to discover the true meaning of your thoughts."
Yeah Common, read up on the history of this place before you have us all looking over our shoulders for your Jihadis. What a concept, eh?
Thailand is more than Pattaya and Cobra Gold.
You appear to have loads of time on your hands.
Read about Thailand and its history..
You know, at this stage of the game, Common, you're just embarrassing yourself more and more with every post.
You really should just ignore me.

It wouldn’t hurt you to pay attention for once in a while, would it?
This nonsense above is just another one of your pathetic re-frames, isn’t it.
Did you even read my post?
G’head. Read the post, Common.
You won’t lose your identity as a courageous (straight, here) committed (straight, as well) young (sort of) US Marine with extensive theoretical and practical experience with explosives some of it acquired at great peril. (straight talk, no irony, OK?)
I state simply that THIS experience does not entitle you to play fast and loose with the truth about this Bangkok attack. And if you are not familiar with this background here you should make it your business to educate yourself. What’s so unreasonable about that?

Or is painting things green easier for you?
The anti-Islamic cheap seats love your fantasies.
And their posts are nice and short.
They’re much easier to deal with than my “Cleveland Steamers” or honest rebuttals from others who just can’t accept your al Qaeda conclusions on your say-so.

You and the impressively prescient bangkokram could perhaps continue to exchange chestnuts of animal folk wisdom . . . . obstreperous old dogs and horses not drinking whatever’s on offer.

My. My. Almost as penetrating as “Thai wisdom”, that was.
But off the main point, as well.
Both references are from Aesop via Lafontaine and although they’re loosely aimed in the general direction of someone who won’t accept what’s offered or learn new skills. The “old dog” nostrum assumes that there is some new skill that needs to be learned. Would this “new trick” be blindly accepting your wild non-sequitur conjectures as valid logical conclusions, perchance? Well we “learned” our way into the Iraqi shithole by accepting new tricks just like that, didn’t we?
What’s so new and tricky about propaganda, Common?

And our spiker’s horse-drinking thing? Well you’re not offering anything as benign or acceptable, vital for survival as water as this nostrum implies, are you..
In answer to our allegorical thirst for fact based truth you are offering your opinion.

Camuschula says:

Common-

I get that you are not the typical dopey Bush bot, but you don't seem to get that when you put 2 plus 2 together concerning all the Thai political mischief of late, all signs point to internal squabbles instead of Islamic terrorism.

There are counter coup rumors running rampant all over Bkk right now. A couple insiders I know, "It is only a matter of when."

The shit going down is not Al Qaeda.

There are many of us who have lived here long enough who know the difference between Thai political BS and terrorism coming from the South. These conflicts have been going on for decades, been happening since even before the Cold War as well. Thailand has had terrorist chaos caused by Commies and drug cartels in the North, internal police/military politics, and a Muslim seperatist movement for a long time.

And Muslim terrorism has been going on in SE Asia long before anybody heard of Al Qaeda. Spain, the US, and now the Phillipine gov't been dealing with the crazy Muslims in Mindinao for centuries, the Dutch had to deal with terrorism in Indonesia for 500 years, the British had terrorism in India and Malaysia.

9/11 changed everything for the US, but the rest of the world has been putting up with this terrorist shit forever.

BTW, I am American and don't think all Americans are idiots, but the Al Qaeda terrorist under every rock mindset is myopic and doesn't do anybody any good.

Road Natzi says:

Common Sense,

Its just amazing how much my anus smells. I get in the shower and I rub and rub it with all the finest soaps, with the finest perfumes, I then sit in a fresh fragrent bath and soak that smell behind for an hour, I then get out of the bath, towel off dry and then run my finger along my anus, sniff the finger......and guess what, yep my anus still smells.

I'm guessing this happens for the same reason that Common Sense's breath smells. Common build a bridge and get over yourself.

Prufrock, see you at my place for pizza, singha and football re-runs !!

Drivespline says:

Hey Poofrock,

You did say you were through with me and some other asshole, did you not? You'll be through with me when I tell you're through with me, bitch.

That said; I'm still happy that you're hot on the case, even though you're an asshole.

Why, you ask?

Because the clickety clack of your keyboard is a terrifying sound to all evil-doers, that's why. The accuracy of your continental language asides and you sharp retorts wither the will of even the most hardened of cold hearted killers. CS is reduced to hang-dog gloom; he sees now he is WRONG, oh so WRONG. As you arrange the pieces of the puzzle carefully in your enormous brain, try to remember that we do all look up to you for intellectual inspiration and navel gazing intruction. Don't be so impatient and frustrated with our lack of understanding; we can't all have your gifts. Who could possibly advocate fighting an enemy when you could just as easily understand them?

Prufrock says:

Common: Look it's just about midnight here in Bangkok. The, um, like, tanks and personnel carriers have been rolling for most of the day. Down from Korat.
After they've assumed their traditional coup positions at Bangkok's various intersections and along major thoroughfares there'll be some announcements. Over the next few days there's gonna be several more.
At first we'll be told that the lads are in town to protect children on Children's Day.
They're not looking for Islamics, son.
Furthest thing from their minds.
“Something far more sinister is going on here.”
I'll promise not to be a prick about this if you promise to actually scroll up and re-read all my posts in this thread. (I'm not gonna be a prick anyway so just relax. And give that Tokyo fella a break as well and that notImtiaz guy? Somebody had to smack Barrett down.
It’s gonna be my turn soon enough.
And for god's sake don't turn this into how "it was about your rudeness more than anything". For the last time, you jumped to a wrong conclusion based on faulty logical paradigm. That shit is DANGEROUS.

Now, I'm going out to my favorite brothel for a beer.
See ya in the morning.
But I’m all done with this.

regards
Prufrock

Pants Elk says:

Oh, tsk.

golfer says:

the muslim pigs did it and the people on top tried to pin the deed to their opposition whom they have illegally removed. what more to come ?

Drivespline says:

Maybe our insults drove him away. What should we do?

Common Sense says:

Camuschula,
Well put my friend. I'm still sticking by my opinion for the time being though. As I've stated to others before it is only MY OPINION and should only be taken as such. If I'm right then so be it, if I'm proven wrong I will post right here on this thread and admit as much. As for now, who the fuck knows. Either option is still a possibility, and I see no hard evidence to push me towards a change in my stance.

Right now though, I could use a blow job. OHHH PANTS ELK, down boy.

Common Sense says:

Drivespline,
Am I the one you think has been driven away?

Prufrock says:

Common: Wrong again! That's ole Divespine down there polishing that little crotch-rocket of yours, son.
Pants is laughing at you along with all the other brains you respect here. Well, some feel sorry for you, actually.
And, don't worry, ole Diverbones'll be hounding you for "his" soon enough.
Is he willing to wait though, is the big question.
'Cause my goodness gracious Common, the rimmers and hummers that YOU'VE been dishing out on this site over the last twelve hours would gag a veteran Casanova blow-monkey now, wouldn't they.

And I guess you're just never gonna scroll up re-read all those posts, are you. Your valuable time, of course. Yes, indeed. First things first.

Re-reading'd be a little like picking a scab, wouldn't it.

Now just what are your plans?
Are you just gonna run away onto another thread?
Or are gonna be a man and admit you jumped to flawed conclusion which you tried to impose on us as fact as fact?

The least you could do for the posters you actually respect in this forum is to Google a "logic" lesson.

Then we won't have to slog through this kind of nonsense over some future issue that you feel you've absolutely nailed for us with your "common sense."

Drivespline says:

No CS. I was hoping it would be Punkrock leaving, but he just won't keep his word. By the way, CS, my two experiences with EOD were:

Watching the EOD guys at the range walk up to unexploded grenades and say "hi". I thought they were nuts.

Shuttling the LA Sheriff Dept. Bomb Squad around the city by helicopter during the '84 Olympics. There was a little activity, nothing terribly serious. Mostly hoaxes and phoned in threats. One actual bomb at LAX. Interesting story on that one that made the news in LA, but not worldwide, I'm sure. I remember flying into LAX in our UH-1 at night with the Bomb Squad. The entire field was shut down, flashing red lights everywhere from the emergency vehicles and news teams were taping our arrival. They were taping everything, I guess. So when the camera light were on us during the approach, I winged the big sliding door open, stuck my big helmeted head out, slid the visor up and gave the cameras a big smile. My minute of fame had arrived! Well, they were not all that interested in us, as it turns out. A patrolman on the scene had defused the bomb (on the bus taking the Libyan team to the airport) by pulling a wire out of the device.

I will leave the rest of the story to Pinkrock, as I suspect he/she will now chime in to tell us that:

My military experinces make me suspect and distort my perceptions of reality.

Bombs really don't have wires.

I need to add a dash of the language of diplomacy to make others appreciate the advanced stage of my edumaction.

I'm a "Neo-con" (I'm sure everyone knows this, but Neo-Con has become a media sound bite. It is used by people who form their political opinions, in case they need one, by absorbing the patina of information available on TV. Political operatives use this Neo-Con catch phrase as an insult endlessly, until the phrse itself take on the air of an insult. It's really the same process advertizers use to drive a brand name into your head. poo and associates then mimic what they see and begin to use t