Jail for Thailand's YouTube fans

k.dingdong says:

I wouldn’t worry too much about the authorities swooping on you David.
I have always published whatever I like and I haven’t had any problems.
K.dingdong
(AKA Salmon Rushdie)

NotAnyBangkok RelatedWebsite.com says:

So where's the meat? By which I mean a link to a corroborating story by a reputable news supplier (or at least one more reputable than MangoSauce).

Or is this just a rumour?

--------------

Hi NABRW

I've added the link but please note that the Bangkok Post will delete it in a few days when the story is archived to its "members only" section.

Regards
David

PS. Here's the text in full (it differs slightly from the version printed on page 2 of the May 10 issue).

Thailand gets new cyber crime law

By Supichaya Rakbua

The chief immediate effect of the new bill will be to outlaw any attempt to get around government censors to access any of the tens of thousands of sites censored for moral or political purposes, or "to damage the country".

The government pushed the new law by saying it hopes the bill will provide an effective legal tool to fight cyber crime, including theft of data and chatroom contacts that lead to rape.

The National Legislative Assembly approved the Cyber Crime Bill, which gives officials power to crack down effectively on hacking and internet-related crimes through harsher punishments.

The bill sailed through its third reading on Wednesday by a vote of 119 to 1. It requires royal endorsement before it can be formally enacted into law.

The bill regards as a crime the intention to withhold internet protocol (IP) addresses and violators are subject to severe punishment, according to the NLA special committee assigned to scrutinise the law.

The IP is a unique address used to identify computer users while communicating with others on the network. However, the committee said, "ill-intentioned users" often hide or falsify their computer addresses so that they can easily carry out illegal acts and get away with them.

The committee believed tighter controls on IP addresses would help tackle the root cause of cyber problems.

Penalties apply to all illegal acts using the internet, including those carried out abroad and deemed to "damage the country both directly and indirectly".

broadbandbully says:

David,

If this bill does get Royal decree, how will people who use false IP address's be traced? Just a thought.

[Does anyone know? - David]

How can the Thai Junta control internet sites from abroad apart from making it difficult to view in Thailand?

[Perhaps by threatening them with prosecution, just like they did to YouTube/Google. Now, of course, they've given themselves the power to follow through on these threats - David]

I think you yourself would have little to worry about, or would you have to carry the can for some of the posts on the site that the Junta didn't like?

[California law would put me in the clear because posters are held responsible for their own words on websites hosted in that state (like this one) but I doubt that such fine distinctions would mean much to the Thai government - as demonstrated by the YouTube fiasco. If any Thai politician took exception to anything posted here, I'd almost certainly be screwed - David]

What next for Thailand, a counter military coup? Stronger immigration laws and even stronger censorship rules? Were will it end? Thailand has changed since September 2006 and not for the better!

[I couldn't agree more - David]

Farang Manifesto says:

broadbandbully-

Why do you care what the Thai government does to David, to the Thais, to the farang or anybody else?

You made it crystal clear in the last blog submission that you enjoy taking it up the butt from the Thai government.

Just keep your head down and your ass in the air.

Isn't that your philosophy of life?

broadbandbully says:

Good Lord Marang Penticostal.

Just because I don't subscribe to the Foreigners in Thailand Revolutionery Party, doesn't stop me from having an opinion. You can choose to go out on the streets with your other gobby friends as is your want. I choose to keep my thoughts to myself and the occasional blog site.

I have issues with the current military Junta, and should a time come when I believe mine and my families well being are in jeopardy then I wont be out on the streets protesting, i'll just board up the house and leave the country until its safe to return.

Attacking rather than critising other people's posts is reminiscent of some other posters MO, as are your references to homosexuality, Ummm coincidence?

I do care what happens to Mangosauce, it is still one of the funniest and in-sightful blogs about the LOS, to see it affected by the current junta's latest new thing would be a shame.

So i'll leave you to meet up with your beatnick pals and discuss how your going to change Thailand, whilst I go out for a very deserved night on the town. Myself and several other like minded ex pats will be having a beer chang drinking competition on Sukhumvit, your'e more than welcome to join us.

Frenchman says:

They could use an IP Tracker.

Look at this one, it's free and gives already a lot of info.
http://www.ip-adress.com/

Unless you use an IP Scrambler, you're screwed.

KoolKing says:

"BANGKOK (AFP) - YouTube is likely to remove all video clips deemed insulting to Thailand's king, a government official said Thursday, paving the way to the ban on the website being lifted.

The popular video-sharing site, owned by Internet giant Google, has been blocked to Thai users since early April, when clips showing digitally-altered images of revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej began appearing.

Asked whether Google would remove the clips, Vissanu Meeyo, a spokesman for the information ministry, said: "It is likely."

Wombat says:

I'm shocked. Go-go bars lowering the moral tone of that fine night market at Patpong?

Datukmike says:

David,

As long as you keep posting the anti-Thaksin articles you should be fine with the Generals.

S & W says:

Haha, Thailand get's more fun every day. I think that they are total incapable to track IP's like they are incapable to show you into the right direction when you ask for the way.

I think they just come up with a lot of nonsene these days to detract from the real problems their country is facing. Rape and chatrooms? Sure it probably happens sometimes, but what about the Thai "real life"? What happens in their communites, villages without internet?

It's just another trick to show everybody that everything bad comes from outside Thailand. If the Thais are responsible for "immoral behavior", like the strip bars and the countrywide prostitution, they take zero action. I wonder when Thailand is jumping the shark. That would be the moment when the westerners don't flock in automatically anymore.

SPQR_US says:

In most cases this law will be impossible to enforce. Anyway they aren't likely interested in you.

Going after US based companies and websites clearly doesn't work and makes them look weaker as they get nowhere with it. They are the Thai not the world government and in Thailand they may do as they please it is their right.

Besides they are more likely interested in having a means to crack down on people who are viewed as political enemies in Thailand before and during the next election. They are probably also looking for a way to have some legal framework in place to deal with any opposition should it arise.

I think you are safe.

Paul says:

David- I love the site, but if I were you I would seriously consider if your freedom of speech and right of self expression are worth Thai jail for.

I do not think that this is the kind of thing that anyone can protect you from..

GOOD LUCK

Andy says:

When I see all motorcyclists wearing helmets, no prostitutes, etc; I might believe the current fascist regime du jeur has the will and resources to go after "cyber-criminals", etc. I think that China has hundreds of thousands of lackeys involved in the censorship of the Internet, who are probably computer literate.... Oh, and here comes Thailand, riding a rickety one-wheeled buffalo cart down the super-information highway.

I wouldn't be too worried, Thailand seems to like to pass laws that it could never hope to enforce;, to try intimidate local opposition to whatever, or try to make itself look grown-up in the eyes of the international arena. It usually ends up a laughing stock, and I hope someone has the sense to shoot this bill out of the sky before it ends in another farce.
The supposed "IT Minister" (who "doesn't find the internet interesting") has just dropped his rather ambitious plans to sue youtube (with tax-payer's money, naturally), and this bill may be a face-saving exercise to to try make him look less pathetic. Some hope.

On a less humorous note, this supposedly benign dictatorship is starting to look more paranoid and unjustified by the day.

Prufrock says:

Farang Manif

"bigbroadbelly" "belly" sucks his way around this board like a 4:00 am soi 13 gutter-pig and his weak-willed ilk inspire puke.

Remember, you were having a fight with this overbearing prick concerning the very issues he's now claiming for his own.

The weasel changed his tune pretty quick when this IP-check piece hit the papers.

Until that day moment, you were right:
"It (WAS) crystal clear in (his) last blog submission that (he) enjoys taking it up the butt from the Thai government."

That's our "belly" all the way.
You're still right.

Like a lot of Bangkok's "big farang players, " big belly" is more dedicated to his shriveled penis rather than to ANY actual thoughts. When he DOES try to say something he shamelessly back tracks and comes off completely full of shit.

If he can't beat your ideas he'll just attack you. These asshole are at their best after a few pints. And they're at their loudest when they figure you're alone.

Guys like "belly" are more interested in being "hail fellow well met" then the truth on any issue. There are thousands like him and the sooner they're out of here the better.(Think of "used cars, condo sales, drunken louts and you've got this particular asshole down in spades.)

Guys like "belly" are always the first ones to slide their wet finger out of their arses for a wind-check and then "smile as the wind sits". Shameless.
These are the guys you see wai-ing greedy ditch-pig "mamasans" all over the place and working at shit jobs to "make house" for some poxy little tramp from Buriram.

"Belly" tries to recover what passes for his self-esteem by hopping up onto a shaky argument and farting onto people who've actually said something significant.

These guys make me puke.

Geoff says:

It is an empty law.

In order for this to function the Thai authorities would have to have the cooperation of the proxy provider. I have a hard time believing that when Detective Somchai shows up at the offices of the Bulgarian IP host who runs the proxy server that they are gonna turn over all their records to him. That is, if they even keep any records of websites accessed.

But to be safe, like I said before, use Tor, an extension for Firefox, it uses a sort of P2P network, thereby making individual users servers as well. It doesn't keep records of who bounced through which node, making it all but impossible to track a user anywhere but to the next node, which will just be the IP address of another Tor user.

and Frenchman...David can track IP addresses with his site as well...ask him if he is able to resolve this comment to the normal IP addresses I post from....(i hope the answer in no..)

[The answer is, indeed, no - David]

broadbandbully says:

You'll definately be alright David, if the authorities have to rely on the reliability of True broadband to connect to the www to seek out IP's.

Yours,

Soi 13 Gutter Pig, I love that one, hats off to Pro's Frock.

Please don't judge everyone by your standards Pro's. Anyway I thought you were ignoring me!

Prufrock says:

@ bigbroadbelly (who) says:

You'll definately be alright David

And this pronouncement is, of course, what we were all waiting for.

Thank god for the big belly-fella, there, and his bar-stool brainfarts.

Anonymous says:

David,

You have legitimate reasons to be wary about low level politcal lackeys making a name for themselves by prosecuting an internet columnist. Stay away from making ANY comment on the current regime for a while, positive or negative(not that you have much in the past). If the Thai economy continues to slide, they will create some new anti-farang controversy to deflect critcism of their backwards economic policies. They are just waiting for some hapless git to criticize the K--g on a locally based web site (although I know YOU would never and have never done that).

Another blogger says:

You can't be too paranoid in Thailand. The mystery is why the censors haven't blocked mangosauce already as "obscene". I guess they only look at the photos. They are too lazy to read the posts.

strangeweb says:

youtube has already said it won't remove clips that don't refer to the king.
If the govt doesn't pull it's head from it's arse, alot of people will cross thailand off their to-do list.

sadakoinbkk says:

Panic Panic Panic Panic .........twitching sweaty farang panic panic panic panic

Kasman says:

David,

I can tell you for certain that there is a unit formed in the Thai PD, headed by a General at Lumpini Station, in charge of rooting out all the offensive web-sites in Thailand and bringing the offenders to justice. This is a fact.

Sooner of later they will make an example of some one here in Thailand as a deterent to others.

Now if you think TOR or anything else is going to stop them from hunting down IP's and webmaster info, think again.

There are many smart PhD's all over the country and Thailand is not educationally backwards at the top end of the spectrum as many farangs think.

You better do your homework and you will find out WHO exactly is operating in Thailand and assisting the Thai government in all facets of governmental and police things.

Then you would realize the Thai government does indeed have all the necessary tools to bring to justice who ever they feel like prosecuting.

My opinion is if you even remotely feel MS crosses over the line, is it worth the 1 in a million chance (or maybe much, much less) to get busted and go to jail?

Look how fast the news of the Swiss guy busted for spray painting the Kings sign spread all over the world.

The government could have a media hayday busting a site like Mango Sauce.

Get yourself some good legal advice from a reputable Thai Lawyer if you plan to continue.

bored says:

OK why has this site turned so boring? Every time I come here the newest article is something political or lame shit like that. Where are all the bargirl and sex related articles?

broadbandbully says:

Seems the best way to get a person off Mangosauce is to hijack his name, whoever BkkHiltonwaiting is, I haven't a clue.

David if you think its me well ok! I suggest that you also look at my last two posts on The Man City Thread, not mine either. If you beleive that it came from myself then I shall not post again, otherwise look at at one of the regular posters for his possible input.
Since when Have I used bad language on my posts.

I wont post until this is cleared up.

---------------

Hi Broadbandbully

I agree that the posts attributed to you are totally out of character and it looks like a troll has stolen your handle.

I've removed the fake comments and blocked the perpetrator's IP address.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

If someone impersonates you again, please let me know.

Please feel free to continue posting.

Regards
David

jbatmbkl says:

There seems to be plenty of sinister sabre rattling going on with the current Government incumbents. I guess most of its hogwash, but in the case of YouTube, they probably felt some urgency to act.

Having met you briefly at a well known music bar a week ago, I mentioned how much enjoyment I derived from MS. In particular the excellent articles on anything night time and some of the immensely entertaining phraseology.

Obviously criticism of the current bunch of autocrats could, but unlikely, jeopardise your continued blogability. That would be a very great shame as I for one would miss the huge enjoyment of the majority of postings.

As they used to say in a well known UK quiz show, 'The decision is yours'. Best of luck - I'll be reading as long as you keep posting.

JB

[Thanks for that, JB. It was nice to meet you - David]

Prufrock says:

broadbandbully: (straight deal here) Wasn't me or anyone I know.

Rodney says:

That blogger in China who was censored
was publishing his sexual prowess with a view to showing the world how easy Chinese women are to shag. I think mangosauce.com is safe because the world already knows LOS women are the easiest shags in the Milky Way.

broadbandbully says:

Prufrock,

I have an idea who it is who hijacked my sign in! Who do you know who constantly as a go at David and calls him the Webmaster? In the posts that David removed he was having a good go at your Profrock identity, you must really have rattled his cage at some point.

divad says:

prufrock = plagiarist

thebamboorat says:

To get a bit tangenital, and I'm not referring to nude sunbathing, does anybody else remember the Boob Tube.

For any Americans here, I'm not talking about a television set but rather an article of womens clothing. Sort of an elastic tube top thing with no sleeves and no shoulders that was stretched tightly over a set of boobs. Hence the obvious name.

I remember they were big in my formative years in the late 70's and early 80's.

On a tanned, slim girl with a great set of perky tits a boob tube was truly something to behold. Alas, like Lycra pants, they were adopted and much abused by fat chicks. Applying elastic to a fat chicks chest had the unfortunate effect of causing her gut to protrude even further to look like the proverbial spare tyre. What we used to refer to as a Pirelli Belly.

Where am I going with this? Fuck knows really. I had just read through the last couple of posts and had glazed over when the tenous You Tube - Boob Tube link occurred to me. It also occurred to me that a Boob Tube would probably look pretty good on a reasonably endowed Thai fun bunny.

Mr Thaksin, bangkokchat.org says:

wonkers all wonkers

wheres my old mate Dicer ????

we are supposed to meet for a romantic chat in a west london pub.

Thaxo.

PS. relax, as l said before l will provide a couple of Thai oversea's students to go to the bar for us.

Telemachus says:

thebamboorat

"does anybody else remember the Boob Tube."

"...to look like the proverbial spare tyre. What we used to refer to as a Pirelli Belly." - thebamboorat

Yes this happened a lot when I was in college. When we would see a girl with a boob tube who was just too fat to wear one we would approach her and say "your boob tube licence has been revoked, you fat slag"

Ah how they would laugh so much that they would start to cry. Yes fun was had by all on such nights.

Peeloon says:

*Vague laws with arbitrary imposition
*Clampdown on freedom of speech
*Foreign Business Act restrictions for foreign investment
*Currency controls
*Visa restrictions to "weed out low quality" visitors
*Terrorists bombs is Bangkok
*Political instability

Governments can make a few bad decisions and countries are able to keep chugging along but these guys seem to be making bad decisions in every aspect of the country.

I keep seeing optimistic prognostications about Thailand but don't buy it. These decisions will come back to bite this country hard when the effects set in and the Thais who aren't in positions to influence the decisions are the ones who will be hurt the most. Sad...

Prufrock says:

@ broadbandbully who posted "you must really have rattled his cage at some point"
Might just have been over that-there Songkran weekend,there.
Whaddya think ;-?

I figured he'd celebrate Songkran by chowing down on blue pills and Diet Coke so he'd be in perfect position for a saturation hammering.
Thanks to those who joined the party. (Yeah, right)

Anyway, I just love the stoopid cunt's rationalizations each time his numbers drop another 10%. (He plans it that way, apparently.)

SKO's opened up another front. Wonder what his response will be to THAT.

Lemme see. How 'bout a new board name,first and then he'll suck around the place for a while and then he'll retaliate with a vicious attack as KAsman or some other mask that is not even worth putting on.
He should just sign his posts.
I do. Johnny Tokyo does. :-)

Sex columnist, Dan Savage's collective name for guys like this is "santorum".

Oh yes, speaking of sex columnists, where's Pathetic Nonsense these days, the guy who can't post and chew gum at the same time, the fucking douche-bag pedophile.

Smiler says:

Yesterday my local paper featured on the front page a story about John Davies, “released from a Thai jail after serving more than 17 years for a crime he says he did not commit”. It is not nice reading but shit happens and there are injustices in every country. Hmmmmm…..

That fuckwit Kasman no doubt knows someone who is related to someone who has the power etc. etc. In fact I am surprised he has not posted another one of his usual “concerned for your welfare David” pieces of shite related to the story itself. That is not an a challenge by the way Kasman, if you want a challenge then fuck off and do it soon.

A bit of paranoia never hurt anyone though David, I agree with jbatmbkl about the current regime and YouTube. I think it would be fair to say they are not getting the best of press around the world at this time, but do they care? Why should they care?

It is going to be interesting to see how the UK press deal with square head if he gets control of the lottery stadium (waste of council tax as well). There are enough twats who own premiership clubs as it is, strangely enough there are not that many disposed, disgraced and forced to live in exile, former prime ministers. Yet.

Frankie says:

The Thais are not the most proficient at computers to be able to enforce these laws and to realise the possibilities of enforcement with cyber laws they enact. It's like a person making laws about nuclear bombs when they don't completely understand how an atomic bomb works.

IP addresses can be hidden and concealed very easily. Even if a person accessed a blocked site, the site is abroad and not in Thailand. And, web-sites come and go all the time. There are so many web-sites coming and going, it would be like trying to enforce rush hour commute traffic with people going off in all different directions. Not possible...

Let's admit it, there are elements of ignorance and naivety here, however, everyone's perception of what's right and wrong are different. Especially, with people in positions of power and control.

Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) says:

Six months ago, FACT initiated a
petition against censorship:

http://facthai.wordpress.com

If you care about this country,
sign the petition and use your
real name.

Many farang are only here for a
comfortable, easy ride.

But, if no one stands up for
anything, nothing will get any
better.

Farang Manifesto says:

Blogspot, which has many anti-junta blogs in Thai and English, has been blocked now also.

I am surprised the FACT poster didn't bring this up.

Hinke, if that is you, keep up the good work.

You are one of the few foreigners in this country who is standing up for liberal values and political freedom.

You(or Supinya, if she didn't sell her soul to the junta like all the rest) should really start to do international media.

The situation is starting to get intolerable.

Also, if you have enough public exposure, the generals might not put a bullet through your head and dump you at the bottom of the Chao Phaya.

Foreigners Actually Ruin Thailand (FART) says:

While you are at it, please visit
http://faranggobackhome.com

If you care about this country, please sign over whatever's left of your property to some bargirl and get the fuck out of here.

Those of you here for a comfortable easy ride can stay a bit longer i.e. until your current visa expires.

Andrew says:

No news of late. Has the Sauce been picked up by the authorities?

Dan says:

From my understanding, it would be difficult to prove that you were accessing banned sites if you're using a proxy server. They can identify the proxy server you're using (they usually block them when they do) but they can't tell what traffic that server is transmitting to you without using packet analysis, which takes more computing power than simply blocking.
If they were willing to use traffic analysis they could block objectionable content (like clips of the king) without blocking sites. In the case of youtube, even URL observation would do that.
Chances are this is one of those laws that they'll only bust you for if they feel like busting you, rather then actively looking for infringements.