Thai insults: Is "farang" a racial slur?

Mr Thaksin, bangkokchat.org says:

"Samongggggggg marrrrrrrrrrr "

always been my fav. "dog brain"

Thako.

sniffer says:

It's not based on ethnicity, but "darkling" is surely the bargirls' customer-directed insult of choice. The little loves think they're being so subtle, too.
Have to say, I'm delighted to add "ai yun" to my Thai vocbulary. I'm vehemently anti-racist but make an exception for Americans, the Japanese (the blokes, anyway), and the Welsh

Dana says:

Millions of words have already been written on the word 'farang' so I won't get carpal tunnel over this--just to say that: 'farang' is an insult and a racist term 100% of the time. I have spent almost 15 years considering this subject. Done. It is an insult.

maltesenosher says:

I always thought the 'bird shit' insult was just aimed at backpackers as they 'are dirty and come from the sky'.

hentaigaijin says:

ha ha the thais looking down on others? do they even live on the same planet? the odd time that i have encountered unbridled racism i simply bite my lip and feel sorry for them.

you know, it's like that scene in the motion picture 'Rocky':

"Take them to the zoo - I hear retards like the zoo!"

Jaques says:

I believe that farang is not a polite word. My girlfriend has always avoided using it ever since I first met her, and always refers to white people as "foreigner". I once asked her if she thought that farang was derogatory, and she just looked down and didn't say anything. However i concede that it can be used as a neutral term, when referring to someone else.

Dave "Fit" Finlay says:

I've been called "Darkling" a few times and I thought it was cute till I found out what it meant.... then I was fucking pissed off.

Does anyone have a good Thai language retort that would gently throw the insult back at them without jeopardising my safety?

hentaigaijin says:

soz it waznt me talkin it waz the drink talkin innit.

brad mason says:

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. With a per capita income of $1.98 per person, I would'nt be pissing the farang meal ticket with racial slurs.

Kaltes says:

Hating people of a particular nationality isn't racist, since nations aren't races. For example, I've heard people who were French complaining of "racism" over French-hatred coming from Americans, for example, which exposes how nonsensical this is. White guys are racist for making fun of white guys from a different country? hahahah.

Hating all blacks or all asians, etc, would still be racist, and hating everyone from a certain country, even though it might not be racist, can still be very ignorant and rude. There might be certain countries that I am wary of moreso than others (like France, hah) but I will give everyone a chance because there are good people that live everywhere, even if they are less common some places than others.

Dicer says:

Farang is one of those words one could talk about forever.... to gain a better understanding you should apply a wider vision as Thais dont actually have monopoly on the word; a version of it is used all the way from Mauritania to Malaysia and anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of either Arabic or any one of the languages spoken eastwards can appreciate this. In LOS it simmers down to context and the continuum of usage goes from the plain neutral to the ambivalent to the despondent to the borderline hateful to the downright xenophobic. Assuming that one is sensitive enough to pick up on every nuance and entonation when the word is used one could probably get stuck somewhere on the highway from the airport on arrival. Upon hearing the word "farang" in the taxicab you take out your exploding shampoo and throw it at the driver..... even better, if you did an overland trip say from Paris to Bangkok, you'd encounter the word farang long before you reached LOS.... it probably starts to reverberate in the hills past the Khyber Pass. And if you think it is just neutral so be it.

Having said that, responding strongly to a Thai who calls you farang is akin to shouting "I have other plans" to a chino and sandals clad drink buddy who says "have a nice day" with an attendant sneer. The only recommended reaction to the word farang is to do a teflon, carry on as if the term is a substitute for your name, or a well worn pronoun. On the other hand, let's (by way of a lexical pH test) cross the Linguaphone student with the Paranoid Lord Jim (LPLJ): Replace farang with "munn": Thais are loathe to use second person pronoun as it violates the hierarchy rule. Is the person you are talking to a pii or a nong? Are they above you or below you. They dont like to ask each other this and there is a certain amount of guessing game when hierarchy is uncertain. What they do is use each other's nicknames to avoid acknowledging someone's superiority, unless it is too obvious that is. So terms like "you" are not used (too direct). Given this, what would you say to a Thai who is referring to you as "mang" or "munn" (pronounced like in money) in your presence? Thais usually use "munn" to refer to things or animals. When this is applied to people it is very rude....and they often do this with foreigners. So if you pick up on this does this mean you have joined the LPLJ group? Jarring. Reach for your lithium maybe. Obviously you wouldnt be pleased to be addressed as "it" or "lizard". Something to mull over.

Mulling does not get you to a conclusion so here.

For kii-nokery masters (look below) the nasty use of farang can depend on tone, which is unusual as Thai normally does not have emphatic (emotional tones) but fixed ones. Saving many Thais who assume it’s acceptable to call a foriegner a farang and can’t think of another term, farang can be heard in disgust when people witness some of the general faux pas committed by alien visitors. If you can’t catch the hissing angry tone like a cobra whose tail has just been run over by a bulldozer, then check the facial expression. Similarly you might spy kids racing behind Indian-Thais hissing kek and you get the idea they are not saying "awight mate". And then you have Thais with Malay in their genealogy who refer to that person nonchalantly as my kek ancestor and no funny undertone there.

Context is it.

Now if you intend on including the word farang on your Coats of Arms then perhaps you are lost in the bleak masses of concrete structure superimposed on greasy, grimy streets and the all pervasive "arom sia" Bangkok ambience or maybe you're in the elite minority who run witty and whimsical websites fit for anyone, ranging from the psycho bunker bubbled (gloating on the qualities of farang over dumdum) to fellow kii nokers (who do the teflon reaction with a wink).

Which brings us to my favourite expression: Farang Kii Nok.

Most "it lizards" oops sorry, I meant farann...erm foreigners, invoke the great unwashed minus everone save the shower deprived in Kaosan to define kii nok, which is too far off the mark unless you are stuck in the erstwhile greasy grimy arom sia bkk. Farang kii nok refers to two things. The first is the seed of the farang fruit (guava) which resembles bird poop. Thais love puns and word play and this is a good example. The second reference is to a foreigner who has landed here by plane but remains here (like bird poop you cant scrape off). Thais invariably assume that you are here for a week and do all sorts of tricks on you without fear of reprisal as they think you are a member of that very visible transient species. So to disabuse them of that assumption enter a foreigner who speaks Thai, goes to the Karaoke and bellows the same screeching out-of-tune songs, laughs at the daft pitches of tuk-tuk drivers and is kii niaw to a level that makes the jeks look stupid with their spending habits. There is your kii nok.

After years of using the term and having it applied to yours truly who was just as curious whether the kii nok appellation was deprecatory or an accolade I settled on the conclusion that when people say kii nok, usually behind your back, they know that you know some Thai. They have to be careful of what they say in front of your face. It means that locals know you are catching on to language and culture. And to solidify the conclusion a Thai lecturer friend gave me his imaginative definition of farang kee nok: a farang who has the last laugh. A fellow Brit colleague extended the kii nok metaphor to a seasoned foriegner who never does card tricks for the Thai group he plays poker with, which I thought was an apt metaphor given Smilers are prone to bouts of gambling.... and nowadays I hear colleagues use the term kii nok to a foriegner who can successfully checkmate Thais in a deal...we all know Thais are adept at making deals so if you are good at the game it means you are a master of kii-nokery. So what do you do when you hear people start to call you farang ki-nok or just ki-nok?

Walking down one of the grimy bkk roads if you get hit by the ornipoop from the especially prolific and ubiquitous local power line evening nok, you are lucky: an especially huge and alarming bird stool dripping on your shoulder or back of your head would induce the sidestreet noodle vendors to smile and tell you the kii nok is propitious and you are now fortunate. You have joined a farang sub species.

Mac says:

Mong: "This word has seriously bad karma."

It really is a multi-layered insult. It derives from the term 'mongoloid idiot', the term once used for what came to be known as Down Syndrome, after Langdon Down, a Brit who described it in 1866. Characteristics including a low bridge on the nose, flattened face and especially a fold of skin over the inner corner of the eyes contribute to a somewhat asian look, thus "mongoloid", a broad racial category along with caucasian and negroid.

Dr. Down thought it was a sort of reverse evolution from the 'superior' Caucasian to the 'inferior' Oriental race.

So used as a pejorative, it's a way of calling someone a retard with a racial slur built in.

philH says:

Haven't really encountered much of the racial insults unless farang itself is indeed an derogatory term. My BG used to hit me with southern Thai epithets when I didn't perform, like I was slow getting the wallet out.

Her favourite was farang ee saht which I am told means "farang son of a bitch".

Other phrases she used to insult people included included ee bplaet "old hag". I'm told that bplaet is a tall yellow hag of a ghost and anything ee is a woman.

Another phrase that used to be used profusely in her off moments was chipb ha, "fucking shit" as I later learnt.

In my experience when bar girls want to talk derogatorially about us farangs they slip into Lao. I've seen many times girls say something unrecognisable while nodding at a particular guy and then fall into fits of giggles.

As for negro's "Hey you, chocolate man" seemed to be the phrase of choice. Christ if I was in the UK and called "How you doin' chocolate man?" I'd be beaten to a pulp by the white PC brigade.

Having said that, on my last contract in the UK I worked with a woman of Asian descent who had a broad Yorkshire, Leeds, accent. She quite often referred to her lot as "those stupid fooking paki's".

Oh well, by choice I'm not in the UK.

ben says:

the polite word should be (kon dung chart)
as in person from another country. not that shitty word farang its the way they say it that gets on my tits !!

Hugh Jarse says:

I think a lot depends on the circumstances and the tone in which the word "farang" is used. The same goes for "jek" or "Khaek" as well.

Used in the touristic and nightlife venues around Thailand those are generally intended to be derogatory references - like some private joke between the locals. This is strange considering that the bread and butter of the users is derived from the very subject of their insults.

It is actually laughable that in the time it takes to pour a few drinks and before you can say "bar-fine", the user of those derogatory terms is most likely to be at the receiving end of the insulted parties body fluids in all his / her nooks and crannies! But then money is an instant anti-racist pill, isn't it?

On the other hand, in some forums, the discussion in several threads expounds a theory that the word "farang" is some exclusive club of western caucasians.

Particularly, one pathetic poster on thaivisa.com took extreme umbrage when someone suggested that "farang" is a term used to classify only those caucasians who are from the western part of Europe. Apparently that bloke was from New Zealand and felt a bit left out - the poor sod. He then hyperventilated over a serious amount of bandwidth as to why Yanks, Aussies and Kiwis should be included in the club and while east Europeans shouldn't!

Lewis says:

Hands down, "farang" is a racist, culturally-ignorant word. The word automatically lumps all nationalities-- British, German, South African, Australian, Irish, Russian, American, French-- into one mish-mash group, despite the broad cultural diversity inherent.

I used to experience the infuriating equivalent word in China-- "waiguoren" or worse, "laowai." Once I beat the shit out of some skinny Chinese nerd because he called me a "waiguoren" in a bar. I beat him until his dinner squeezed out of his arse.

It is a peasant, redneck, culturally-ignorant word. Same goes for "farang." One Chinese guy once told me in Mandarin, "I have always wanted a Caucasian friend!" How stupid and insulting is this? Would you ever say to someone, "I have always wanted a Black friend"?

To the Thais and Chinese:
Don't lump us into one group by calling us "farang," or "laowai," you hillbilly idiots. I am Irish, not Caucasian. If you can't discern what nationality I am through my accent or looks, then ask, and call me "Irish" from then on. Not "Caucasian."

Yes, I understand that Thailand is a culturally homogenous nation, unlike the US, UK, Canada, etc. Same goes for China. That's why "farang" is used to differentiate Thais from non-Thais. However, Thailand is FAR less homogeneous now because it's been exposed to Westerners for decades now-- so it has less of an excuse to still be using this culturally-ignorant, insulated word.

That's why I'll let the Chinese off the hook-- they know next to nothing about the rest of the world, and haven't been exposed to other cultures that much.

The take-home message: The race of the person shouldn't matter when trying to identify or refer to him/her. Not in a culturally-diverse Thailand. Not with a saturated Western tourist industry. Period.

That's why I empathise with that English fellow's anger.

bangkokram says:

I don't believe "Farang" is generally used in rude way.

It just takes time realise we are the "Foreigners" here, and not get offended by it.

Charles Edward Frith says:

The word Farang (Firang) comes from India (As indeed does Asok, Srinagarindra and the Wai gesture - Namaste

http://tinyurl.com/fxczu

http://tinyurl.com/zw7g2

Its debatable that when the word falang (with l) is used, the person addressing you likes you or people of occidental origin more so in that situation than when using Farang (with r) which is less na lak (rak)

God save the King.

Franger says:

It is true that Bangkok low-life use the expression “Farang kee nok” to describe their idea of low life from the West but this is an adaptation and in its original and still widespread use, particularly in rural areas, it has nothing to do with Farang = Westerner.

You won’t come across a farang kee nok unles you wander around a farm – it is a very small and useless farang (guava) which is usually left to rot on the tree. The phrase is used by Thais, who may never have met a Farang, to describe another Thai National who is different in some way, perhaps because one parent is not Thai. It is, of course, a derogatory remark.

Franger

RRR says:

If you say that "Farang" is an insult, you are also saying that Thais never speak about Farangs in a positive way as there is no other regularly used term.

Looper says:

Lewis,
Feckin twits like you give Irish folk a bad name.
Farang is not racist.

Is 'Foreigner' racist because it lumps folk together?
Is 'European' racist?
Is 'Irish' racist?
Is 'Dubliner' racist?

Eniac says:

To argue that 'farang' is rude is the same as arguing that the Thais have no polite word to describe Caucasians.

This is, of course, preposterous.

Dry your eyes, gentlemen. 'Farang' is just a label.

Andy B says:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda

... he described the symptoms of a disease called "Phirang" [ Gonorrhoea and Syphilis], which was introduced to the subcontinent through contact with Europeans. ("Phirangi" was the word used to describe Europeans in India.)

Mangosauce readers, I am sure, are quite aware of the Indian influence in S.E. Asia.

hottafyah says:

Franger, not Dicer, is right about "Farang Khee Nok". A "farang khee nok" is a guava that is not farmed, but grows from the shit of a bird who has eaten a guava. The fruit of such a wild tree is basically useless and of no value, like the low-life foreigner the term is sometimes used for. Franger, if you're going to go to great lengths to explain what Thai phrases mean, at least have a clue what you're talking about first. Everyone else, get over yourselves. Count your blessings, smile and chill out. You're only as "farang" as you think and act. And if you're proud of that, then there you are and so be it. 'Nuf said.

sniffer says:

Wow, looks like this one could run and run. I've read many times that farang is a corruption of "frank", and has its origins in, firstly, the Frankish involvement in the Crusades and subsequently European traders and then explorers making their way across Asia. Apparently, versions of the term can be found everywhere from the Near to Far East. Is this a myth?
Anyway, just because it has a venerable history doesn't mean that it can't be racist. The N-word has its roots in Latin and is as about as vile a term as it gets.
To sum up and to quote Lewis Carroll;
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less."
I still don't like the Welsh, though

Dave "Fit" Finlay says:

Lewis said: "Once I beat the shit out of some skinny Chinese nerd because he called me a "waiguoren" in a bar. I beat him until his dinner squeezed out of his arse."

Are you Kris in disguise?

Common Sense says:

Your a bunch of dumb shits trying to get all fuckin philisophical about the meaning of the word 'farang' when most of you call yourself's that in half your posts. Derogatory or not who really gives a rats ass. Next time you hear it finish your beer, pay the bar fine, and then take the bitch home and shove your cock right up her poop shoot. Insult or not that will put the dumb cunt in her place. Lighten up fella's it aint all that serious.

Friendly Farang says:

Lewis, you beat the shit out of a skinny guy 'til his dinner squeezed out of his arse? Nice. Listen, you really should not be upset by being called a farang. I'm sure far, far worse things are said of you on a daily basis. Let's start by using a few of your own: peasant, redneck, culturally-ignorant. I can imagine you now: another alcoholic, violent, self opinionated bar fly. Please go home!

Fun House Rob says:

Wow...

I'm 100% sure of this: Farang is completely neutral.

Saying that the word farang is anything but neutral is like saying that water has a weird shape...It all depends on the context and situation (the container).

If you are being "that (rude) guy," then yes, I can understand why you would hear and understand it with rude undertones.

On the other hand, however, if you learn the language and appreciate the culture a bit, maybe even learn to read, then hearing the word farang will have much more varying undertones.

As a farang, I've used it in both ways with Thais, and it's not too difficult to understand the difference between FARANG and farang (some of you will get that, others won't).

It all depends on the situation (the container). And to the guy who thinks grouping people is racist, do you feel the same way when you hear people say something about "asians"?

Food for thought...

Franger says:

hottafyah – I did not say that it was farmed. Perhaps it would be better if you read a post before commenting on it. Some of these trees grow on my farm and I see no point in cutting them down. In fact some of the locals do eat the fruit and are keen to come and collect them.

Dicer says:

Mr Thacko, your rejoinder is an oft heard and indeed resounding theme. Who cares about these lot? Why take them seriously. We can diddle the little yo-yos and enjoy the weather and go home and who cares about their bird speak and hive mentality.

Nothing serious here. In fact, the incongrous mix of delusional foriegners and foggy brained locals is pure comedy, even the super pervy Romans couldnt match had they had more wine. And when you dig deeper it becomes amazing how people veer off from reality and get lost in the wilderness that cant even distinguish and connect words like shitty barbarian and lizard c**t. No synthesis. Reminds me of this foreign lecturer who spoke fluent Thai and even Pali and had been here 20 years but always got in trouble and his local colleagues hated his guts as he violated rules and the bottomline was he had, like all the psychotic foreigners, the "who gives a shit about these rice farmers" attitude. Sure he had the lingo but no synthesis at all. No connecting the dots.

How you take LOS, or anyplace for that matter, comes down to your reason for being there. The way mental bubbles work most of the people who show up in LOS for work or holiday or retirement have suitcases full of delusion. If the immigration guys are not going to co-operate with the psychosis lockers idea perhaps the shampoo nicking airport cops at Heathrow could strip LOS travellers of their excess luggage . A simple IQ test can do. And those who dont make it above a double digit figure would have to sign a waiver form which stipulates that on your LOS sojourn whilst admiring and diddling the yo-yo boxes there is a risk of getting caught in the retardation... a mental clap if you like. And no insurance cover for that. If, on the other hand, you safely make it back to Blighty or yankland or wherever it is that you sprang from you can wear a grin of satisfaction and proceed into your daily grind.

The pleasant prurient effect of the doddering "I friendly farang nadger to your tight Oriental rice paddy box" wears out soon enough and it is time to run for the airport or if yet unsatiated renew the perv visa. But some get caught in the mental corrosion and proceed in their rudderless quest to romance the box and before they know it they start calling this place home. Before you know it the sweet little box has attached itself to your smoking ATM card like a tick and a faint smell of sulpher wafts about your wallet. The tick on the foriegn monitor lizard so to speak. And ticks follow each other. They are also falling over each other laughing at the "naa naa," the thick skinned foreigner, refering to a person so dense he doesn’t know when he is being roundly insulted. And here is an additional problem: because Asians and especially Thais are subtle their version of being rude can go completely unnoticed by a farang. Sure, who cares as long as he is perpetually nadging the boxes like a pneumatic drill with a broken switch; He hasnt time to notice that he has ended up a joke and none the wiser for it as his psychosis is not ruminated for him. Even when they point their feet at you, not reciprocate a wai, not hand an item properly, or use special pronouns that turn you into a member of the animal world you just think of the next tight little box that is going to work on the joints. In the background imagine nasty little kids running around singing farang na na na na na na na.

So, whose reality is it anyway?

Sure we all live in a pretend world. You walk arm in arm with the rental hooker and affect as if she is the latest romance. You smile to the Smilers and feel comfy in the hospitality bubble, fingers and sneers and comments unnoticed. You can renew your visa every 90 days, and can still pretend to have the grounded life with a house and wife and kids. Can even pretend to have status and rights. Psychosis seeping in every nook and cranny, the neural pathways soaking wet with it. And finally you reach the crowning achievement of irredeemable delusion: Ladies and Gentlement farang actually means friend. And kii nok is not bird poop, actually it is raisin. One Sunday when you are eating your breakfast, lulled, the foggy LOS unreality washing over you, there lands birdpoop on your omlette and you do a mental override with the raisin picture. You can even do better and go into a positivist dogma as quick as a Post Puritan American and thank God that it is bird poop that landed and not buffalo poop, as if to say, "well at least they call me kii nok and not kii kwai." The pretend world can regress into an unreflective void to eventually soft land in a bog of apathy.

In case you catch sight of the guffawing waitresses in the fringe you do another Mental Erase. Dig deeper in the bubble. Some bubbles are impregnable others are unapproachable. Or another type of glass half full bubble has it's occupant emerging with a sufficiently pathetic streak of a denial to proclaim in a hickey twang: "gee, thanks a million buddy. It’s an honour to be publicly recognized as a Western barbarian bird poop." "Dont mention it," says a voice in the hive. Enthused, our monodimensional visitor wonders if there is a category higher than farang kii nok. The reply from the hive is at this point, not yet. It seems to be fairly simple: you’re a barbarian and you’re bird poop. And we can all take a collective sigh of relief in the knowledge that this is better than being called an epileptic monitor lizard. One can even come up with a fortuitous neologism but to no avail.

What is not comedy and rather sad is that one shock after another bursts the bubbles and you see broken nadgers... in perv speak let's call them pneumatic drills gone duff... synthesising the disconnected info can lead to knowing what is going on around you, figuring out the hive mentality. Even if you dont live in LOS and pop over for the odd quick fest it means making the safest choices or if you live here it means making the most of it.

To this one gets that collective neurally blocked nebulous response "who gives a f*** ", the deafening cruscendo rising until two characters are left in the room: Who are they? You can give your psychosis a name. Let's call it Uncle Nadger. And let us call the paranoia Screaming Lord Jim. In Thai poopery world a dual thing is going on. Screaming Lord Jim dashes around trying to wake people up like a frantic Himalayan guru who sees the end coming while at the same time Uncle Nadger is putting bubbles on right and left. Psychosis is indeed, the antidote to paranoia ... Uncle Nadger is jumping up and down pointing to sneering mutants and hailstones of bird poop. Nadger is whispering through the bubble orifice, "shhh it is ok it's their way of calling you friend, they really like you and everything is ok, keep on nadging"...in fact let Nadger and Jim feud over who gets the next customer right out of the airport.

paul says:

Does anyone know the Thai for 'cheese eating surrender monkey' whilst on the topic of the French ?

paul says:

p.s. I thought the 'phirangi' where a bunch of ugly big eared aliens in 'Star Trek Deep Space Nine' ???

maccadangdang says:

asians will always look upon us as the farang. you can't change that and why bother anyway? after all its only abit of banter. i can speak on behalf of most people i know that we all let slip with this kind of language. as long as no one gets their head kicked in because of their skintone/body odour i'm all for taking the piss out of anyone in my sights.i even call my dear mother a bloody jew and my dad a mick prick and they don't seem to mind at all.heheh

hottafyah says:

Sorry David, for posting this here, but I need to aplogize to Franger. It was a typo when I wrote that he should have a clue before he lectures. I meant, and do again, to tell Dicer that, not Franger. Franger was and is right in every way. Thanks, and everyone chill.

bored of dicer says:

Dicer, who are Lord Jim and Uncle Nadger? Where are the Bubbles and Hives?

Also, can you tell me how I regain the will too live after reading one of your Biblical proportioned posts? Apart from not bothering in the first place.

ajarn farang says:

How about the principle of nonresistance?

If one is nonresistant, one is victorious from the beginning. Those with evil intentions or contentious thoughts are instantly vanquished. One is invincible when one contends with nothing.

Defeat means to defeat the mind of contention that we harbor within.

Chair says:

These guys who try and strengthen or ‘qualify’ their little missives on whatever subject, topic or issue of Thai culture they write by reference to their “girlfriends” makes me puke. Listen guys, this is Thailand; she’s not your girlfriend, it’s only your ‘turn’. If these guys were more open and honest, stopped beguiling their own tiny minds and wrote… “this Thai chick I’m currently shacked-up with”… I’d have more respect for them; not-to-mention what they write.

Dicer says:

This morose bathos about the word farang lost it's luster round about the Second Crusades I'd say. And there are already reports up here, of acute cases of ennui induced amnesia so here is a final word from the bag of jabberwonky.

Foriegners as seen and known by locals gives us a panorama of farangs as background for a footnote in abnormal psychology. But rest assured you are not alone. There are many friends in this Western mayonnaise kind of psychosis: People stuffed with big macs and loaded with high tech long range weapons. In the super comedy of Thailand juxtapose that with people "who have just stepped out of the rice field," which by the way should be a symbol for neolithic not food, time warp people amazingly waltzing around in disco bubble gum music like they were right there. And then you see those sneering faces and really wonder where you are? Roundly insulting or not, Thais somehow get you off guard. They seem normal so who is time walking, the mayonnaise foriegn psychos from a different temporal universe or the clever locals who can tiptoe over that 10,000 year gap with a beer promotion outfit and a smile and hand over a pitcher of Tiger. Try this in most 3rd world countries and you'll find that there is no foggy reality to lull yourself into, exchanging smiles and fluids. And just when you think all is fine and dandy the shocks, the bamboozling, ending up on the BBQ!

A lot of the guys in LOS, not to mention the cyber denizens here will just summarize "gee them thar 'r a bad bunch" and stumble off for a new adventure in the next beer bar or whatever. Even those who can do synthesis get stuck when it comes to action. Do the shocks help you , ratch up and readjust your plan for moderation? LOS unreality has a lot of stuff out there that makes our ideas look like Swiss cheese. You can just sit back and watch, twitching your beady Saxon eyes and they'll look at you with their soft flat ones. Watching, yep stocking up you can use it to your advantage loading up on evidence for your own eventual case. On the other hand the denial "head in sand" types refuse to believe any of it. Blink, confused, "wull, i ain't never seen none of this." The strategy is, if it didn't happen to me it isn't real: this is synthesis avoidance. Denial people must maintain a very simplistic non conflicting theory going. They also form a kernel idea and then defend it, something brought over from Ohio and forced to fit in a new reality you see. Like saying "surely [sic] farang is a friendly term." Just when we think we have the place sussed out and start normalizing whaam it hits you again.

Best of luck in recalibrating your reality if you ever will.

No Dice says:

As I feared, it appears that the loquacious and conceited conceit-spinner Greg (Dicer?) has re-discovered Mango Sauce. It was posters of this ilk that dragged down the previous incarnation of the site.

It would suffice for such pompous, self-important prattlers to post a link to their own websites, for those who are interested -- all three of them.

"Farang is one of those words one could talk about forever.... " And given the chance, he will. Please spare us.

Satyr says:

Does anyone here really care if the Thais like them or not? Personally, I could not give a damn - the opinions and attitudes of Thais are of no concern and don't deserve to be. I've said it to Thai people's face: I look down on them. For me the word 'Thai' conjures up a wide array of characteristics and attitudes that I hold in complete contempt, so I'm not bothered if 'farang' is derogatory all, some or none of the time.

Thais actually look down on anyone who is not Thai. Yet, if Thailand were to drop off the face of the earth would the rest of the world really miss it? What does it add to the world other than being a place where millions of foreign men and a few women go for 'stress relief?' That is, by what right do Thai people look down on others?

Thailand is the world's largest brothel and a nation of ignorant, stupid, lazy people. The very essence of Thai culture promotes the 'lowest common denominator.' Has anyone ever heard of a great Thai intellectual? In a land where 'hip hop' DJs playing the same 10 songs ad nauseum are regarded as creative, has anyone ever heard of a genuinely artistic, creative and expressive Thai?

(BTW, has anyone ever sat in a taxi and NOT wanted to smash the radio after 5 seconds of upcountry music?... thank God for iPods! and curse forgetfulness and traffic jams - a horrible combination ;-)

Thai culture and Thai people are quite attractive on the surface. However, once you dig a bit deeper and get to know the culture and society it is not pretty.

Below is a joke told to me by a friend and which I used to tell to bar girls way back when I allowed myself within 5 metres of them. It is worth remembering because it is true.
List in order of importance, the most important things to a Thai lady:

Baht
Family
Buddha
King
Sanook
Friends
Food
...
Whiskey
Beer
...
Dog
Cat
...
Flea of Dog
Flea of Cat
...
Dirt
Shit
Shit on shoe
...
Farang

Satyr says:

Oh, forgot...

That joke is all you need to know about what 'farang' means, or, rather, what it means to be a farang. Jing jing.

Franger says:

Hottafyah: thank you – I was rather puzzled but now that I understand, I must say that I fully agree with you.

Dicer says:

"No Dice"....yes sorry, I'm guilty as charged on the "loquaciousness" (here too) and perhaps less written would be advisable so as not to eat up bandwidth and leave some room for 'enlightened' views such as Satyrs above. As for being "Greg" I'm sorry to disappoint again, I always post, if I do at all, under the same moniker.

As much as the topic warrants it, and to the extent that you either fixed upon anyone of my comments, or like some, could have chosen to gently ignore, I was illustrating that these words have multiple meanings considering different angles and the sets of assumptions we carry. Also more than anything, I was looking at how living in a foreign country highlights the fine line between psychosis (one's made up worldview, underlying assumptions) and paranoia (or sensitivity). Nothing illustrates this as easily as how people respond to the word farang.

Perhaps on my part I would try to be less oblique so that you dont mispercieve my comments as "conciets." Esp considering and expanding on (1) Mr Thako's idea of people who've just "emerged from the rice field," something the PC army find intolerable and (2) most others' comments that what really matters at the end of the day is the supply of cheap pussy.... amen to that!

Failing that I kindly request that you skip the post when you see this moniker underneeath it.

Hottafyah and Franger, I'm sure we can agree to disagree... the word farang is associated with words like guava (farang) ฝรั่ง , chewing gum (maak farang) หมากฝรั่ง. potato (manfarang) มันฝรั่ง etc... even Pratom kids make jokes with these words. And most Thais (outside Kaosan Road, and the 3Ps i.e. Patpong, Pataya and Phuket) also use the word farang kii nok ฝรั่งขี้นก as a tongue in cheek expression to mean "farang roo maak" or "farang kii niaw" sort of like saying with a wink "you skinflint you're catching on arent ya?" etc etc.... it is a complement if anything, albiet a cheeky one, but one that does not warrant offence unless the word "kii" crushes your system. If offended one should debug said psychosis or paranoia and reboot.

Grunt says:

"Sure we all live in a pretend world. You walk arm in arm with the rental hooker and affect as if she is the latest romance. You smile to the Smilers and feel comfy in the hospitality bubble, fingers and sneers and comments unnoticed."

Hey Dicer, sounds a bit like America to me, only the women are bigger (and more masculine) then the guys.

On that note, since Im married to a Ukrainian lovely, I notice yet another nuance of Western culture.

The seething contempt of American (and Canadian, for that matter) men! My wife isnt a bloated windbag, therefore I have become the enemy?

Maybe its because my wife looks like shes 14? It hardly matters...

Enjoy the many and varied rice paddy boxes, then sit back and cast judgements on the culture in your spare time.

Could be worse. You could be here.

Neb says:

Note to Lewis, is your post a wind up? If not you've got issues man. 'Laowai' means old foreigner in Chinese and is fairly neutral.
If you're in a bar an suddenly come to the realisation that you 'have to beat someone up' for what they've said then you can't handle your drink. Stick to the pop next time.

JD says:

I don't really believe that all Thais look down on all non-Thais. I think if you are actually a nice person and treat Thais with a bit of respect then you will get that respect back in return. Admittedly there are bigoted idiots that automatically think you are an insignificant scumbag because you look, talk and think differently to them. But is this different to any other country? I've been treated this way in Laos and Vietnam also. Every western country also has its fair share of racists that wouldn't give an Asian the time of day if asked politely. When I lived in England in an area hugely popular with tourists - I tolerated the mass influx of camera toting Japanese and American tourists, as apposed to reveling in it. As for the term Farang, my personal experience is that it is mostly used as a neutral term or in a slightly piss-taking form, when discussing amusing observations they have made of foreign people for example. I couldn't quite figure out exactly where I fit in the Thai social hierarchy as an educated, professional white person or if Thais try to fit you in at all. I noticed that if I pulled off a particularly good wai to a senior citizen then they looked genuinely appreciative of the respect I had shown them. In any social situation I was definitely seen as the designated bill-payer! A normalisation of the way I felt I was perceived within Thai social relationships would probably be as a social-anomaly with money, who could be tolerated or genuinely liked, who would be positioned high up the Thai social ranking scale if they had to put me somewhere but because I wasn't Thai they didn't have to worry about that! I think Thais can kind of think that when hanging out with you - they can get all the benefits of hanging out with someone of a high social standing (doors opening, good tables, bills paid etc.) but without having to show any of the subservience - a win-win situation for them. For you, you can sometimes be left feeling like you are perceived as a rich novelty! Anyone else have similar experiences?

Andy says:

Dicer, I bet you're a real "glass half empty" type of guy, eh?
And you're off the meds as well.

Seriously, who really gives a toss about the subtle shades of what one local word "farang" might imply? Given that the speaker will invariably (lazily) pronounce it as "fa-lang" anyway, it would preclude the rest of their sentence from having any real import really.
Every country around here has extreme nationalistic tendencies. Its their substitute for education. You will get called a lot worse in other countries around here, and in most countries around the world you might be kidnapped; murdered; mugged; or similarly mistreated just on general principle.
Some of you sensitive academic types may lack perspective.
Or money.
So go home.

alec says:

just keep telling thais how you look down on them satyr, hopefully youll get the beating your racist rant deserves.

Dicer says:

Grunt,

You are right. It could be worse. When I was on a brief trip to the US recently I couldnt wait to leave. Sitting in the bar someplace we accidentally struck up a conversation with some women and half looked like they were going to reach for their Mace...the alienated hostility was frightening. Noone forces us to come to LOS so yeah it could be worse.

JD,

"I noticed that if I pulled off a particularly good wai to a senior citizen then they looked genuinely appreciative"

Well observed. I have to say Thais dont like to wai anyone let alone a foriegner. I've seen my friend's kids repeatedly taught to wai and even the little intuiting ones can pick up on the subservience aspect and dont like it at all! However, when you wai mild mannered people who would otherwise not greet you, they wai back quickly, esp if you are older. They consider it to be bad karma to be rude at that level.

Andy,

I'm not actually off the meds. I'm contemplating getting on them metaphorically speaking. But the "meds" are not necessarily the chemical type. And yes I do err on the side of caution.

By the way the purpose of all this is synthesis. Being able to reach solid conclusions and act. And yes to go home now and then and get a sobering comparison is advisable... the examined life blah blah. The geezer with his hooker in Sukhumvit is living in some sort of reality just as the geezer glued in front of the TV in some old age home back in chavland or gulpland is simulating his life through the remote control. Which life is better is a question I'll leave for you to answer.

Anything short of the "who gives a toss" here is a perspective for you.

When you observe a culture that is not yours there is all sorts of air to breathe from the blind nationalistic miasma to the benign and curious one. The fact that the word farang is a topic here is proof enough. I find the usage of the word farang interesting because I used to work and live in an Arabic speaking country and have encountered it as I said across the Middle East and Asia..... If you are interested in history it tells you a lot, like the word Hun does about erm...not so much about what it means, but about those who use it, or the word Oriental does about the people who invoke it. And past myths create present realities so it doesnt hurt to consider all the options.

Is that satisfactory as far as perspectives go?

Part of the deal is also to pick up the nuanced, even subliminal messages passed on to us. On the other hand the dangerous thing is when you say "who gives a toss" and superimpose your reality on others, which is what the yanks and Brits are doing in the mideast but anyway I wont go into that. Suffice to say that in the Farang vs Oriental world all you need is not education (or the lack of it thereof)...all you need is a sort of mayonnaise mentality backed up with high tech weapons that blow apart anything on your path.... So a good retort to those who subscribe to evolutionary determinism and scoff at the Thais as neolithic rice people is to point that sufficiently arrogant view towards what mayonnaise people are doing and add that the Ubermensch superiority is nothing more than turning rice reality into mayonnaise reality and you couldnt blame the poor Thais for wanting mayonnaise, do you now?

ajarn farang says:

i don't want to fit into their hierachy. i find their entire system of etiquette and social structure foppish and cumbersome. quite frankly, it annoys me to high heaven.

not all of them are xenophobes or narrow-minded. the ones that are, just ignore them or gently put them straight. as andy mentioned earlier you can get a lot worse in other country and ignorance of this kind exists in every corner of the globe to greater or lesser degrees.

Franger says:

Returning to the expression ‘Farang kee nok’, it has become obvious that there are actually two meanings:

1. a figurative one referring to a variety of wild guava propagated via bird-shit and also used as a pun by Bangkok low life.

2. a literal one referring to the literary fartings of a Farang dickhead like Dicer which equate very well with bird-shit.

wulfman says:

Some posters here have had a serious sense of humour failure or too many Mekong cokes!
I think it's hilarious when I hear, "darkling" or "tut ling", (monkey arse hole or monkey butt): yes even when it's aimed at me!
I lived in Scotland for a while and they have a complete book of clannish and racial insults.

nekochan says:

I onced ask an Indian colleague about the origin of "farang". He said it came from "farangi" in Hindee. Its pronunciation is just like farangi in Star Trek.

It means westerners in particular. I do not think average Thais use it with insult. It depends on situation. The same think as "I" and "You" in English.

Calling a guy "Hey!, YOU!" is rude and risk your life. (the same you in English is typically OK)

But if someone calls you "Ai Farang", you must be ready for battle.

Jek means Aunt? or uncle?, but this word in Thai is comparable to chink or Chinaman in English.

Mong is a typical Burmese lastname. Thais may call a Burmese "mong" is the same thing you call a guy (cannot remember his name; too long) John Doe.

Mong is nothing to do with Mongoloid stuff!!

Mong is not that offensive, Ai Pa Ma is!!

Ai Muet is comparable to N word in English, but Pee Muet is not. Well!, Thais always give tough time to African people anyway.

Laotians can be called "Bak Ham" or "Bak See-yoh". Thais also aim these words at Esan people since there are Loatian descents dated back 2 centuries ago. Making fun that they are very hillbilly or "Ban Nok" in Thai.

I think Thai a polite language, but with politeness as it is, the rudeness it becomes. I heard that Japanese language suffered the same thing.

Dicer says:

Come now Franger...your well worn expletive has little impact here.

Many an upcountry guava tree
seems to be shielding experts on waste matter emittance who rather seem piteously blocked in by the walls of their conflicting assumptions about where they are. A struggle of sorts ensues and you become so dessolute you cant even make a fist when angry. I wonder how you will attempt the next slam over. Perhaps some more sissified expletives will zoom over us masquarading as the latest in new ideas.

I have to say a bit of reflection dropped on the likes of you forest lumpen, stunned by culture...winced.

I suggest you unplug that used tampon out of your backside, snap out of the "pracham duan" and grab another drink, take a sip and reflect... share with us anything intelligible, even "fartings". No need to be retentive...chill.

dave says:

lewis,

yer feckin mong ..

wai-guo ren comes from an intelligent more

thoughtfull junguo ren-chinese

it's a grouping of all foreign nationals terms

mae-guo-ren= american

shebagnyu-guo-ren= spanish

language,,,welcome to ballydung radio with our pal lewis here, live n direct from bogland

dave says:

khun kem , is as far as i wouldt go , insulting a thai without wanting to enticing violence,

it means-you are bitter

you can say i to the pat pong taxi drivers who want 300b for a 75b ride, it let's them know ,in a down to earth way,that you know the score and to stop wasting time.

i have many times said ''ga-baan-eye-naa -hee'' to many tuk-tuk drivers ,meaning go home cunt face , they look a bit upset and think i'm a very rude,they just drive off wondering why i'm so angry,

for the simple reason , i cant walk around for long, due to tuk-tuk ,and open exhaust bus dust and fumes.

if only i could breath in bangkok,,i tried riding around bangkok on a 1000cc bike for 2 years..

wow that place stinks.

thailand has gone downhill,

china is much more relaxing and cultural.

i love this website, it's extremely funny.

Franger says:

Your arse fixation speaks volumes for your state of mind – full of shit. I would like to reply to your post but as usual it does not make sufficient sense so I’m afraid that I can’t help you. At least it is mercifully shorter than usual so that we normal readers of Mango Sauce do not have to go to the end of the thread and scroll upwards to skip it.

Dicer says:

The posts about these words makes one think of some foreigners who learn to speak Thai and then seem not to understand other foreigners - who speaking Thai, but as novices mess up the tones - pretending or really misunderstanding the lack of tones to demonstrate a higher level of Thai speaking. You could easily guess at the general sound and the context and correct the situation, but the poor erudite wannabes go on as if one day they would get a special category awarded to them like becoming kii tossas. Even worse they suddenly discover that Thais make mistakes pronouncing L for R or, grammatically, use the wrong classifier or mix them up like red necks who use double negatives and proceed to correct them! Tonight we have farang kii tossa who will critique everyone’s grammar. Let’s give kii tossa a big hand.

Oh and you shrilling like a gecko in the rafters about your arse....sheeesh.

Anonymous says:

Dear Alec,

If you had UNDERSTOOD the post you would know there is not a hint of racism in it. Thai people aren't a race, Asians are a race. You would have been better off accusing me of bigotry and if you had you would have been wrong again.

Overall, I don't like Thai culture. That is my right and it is born of experience and an understanding of it not ignorance. There are some aspects of it that I love but, for the most part, it conflicts with my values.

I find the general western attitude of carte blanche acceptance of and adaptation to other cultures unusual and it is the problem with a lot of people who come to Thailand... they compromise who they are, their values and beliefs. It also results in a lot of people being led down the garden path.

As for telling Thai people I look down on them, well I talk to civilised people about these things not the uneducated and unwashed. The comment is usually preceeded by a conversation initiated by a Thai about Thai-farang relationships and, as with all things Thai, that involves money. They can accept my comment because I justify it with my experiences. If they comment there is a lot of farang rubbish in Thailand, I will agree with them.

Now roll back over and give your bar girl a kiss.

Hugh Jarse says:

Don't get your balls in a knot just yet Dicker. They might obstruct your keyboard and restrict your virtual diarrhea!

Franger says:

Dickhead,
“Shrilling like a gecko…..” – now that you are reduced to quoting from a two year old thread to find something to say it really is time that you gave up. GOK how many other quotes are sprinkled amongst the rubbish that you post. It is not your Thai that we are complaining about, you moron, it is your English. Your inability to string more than six words together to make sense. Perhaps you are not a native English speaker? Surely you are not learning English from prostitutes as well as Thai?

Combover says:

Whilst chatting with a beer bar girl the other evening, she referred to a colleague as liking "farang sait". I took this to mean "sait farang", but she corrected me and said that these phrases have different meanings, the former referring to young Italian/French type farangs.

Can anyone confirm this, or was she just talking shite?

namban says:

Hey Dicer,

Are you still working at the MoE? I guessed from the parody here that the two books out there telling warts and all about slimeland came from one of you folks in MoE who were making jokes about the Thai education reform in 97.... Anyway if it's not the same person sorry. I liked your stuff re psychosis though. Even the small encounter with the Thais on an R & R trip is fraught with the unusual. and visitors who get caught unawares. BTW I dont wholly agree with your observation of the word farang. It came to Thailand via Pali (Sri Lanka) and not from the Arab version.

Cheers.

Dicer says:

I liked that "we" bit.... raaaiight Franger, you are the English tutor and you can fantasise that I'm one of your students from the tribes who could hardly string sentences together. I recommend you read Andrew Marshall's Trouser People (if you know how to read at all) and you'll know what I mean. So if I have your sympathy maybe my grammar will improve. Desperately trying to fit into the kii tosser category are you?

"Perhaps you are not a native English speaker? "

Let's just say that I'm not one of the uncultured forest lumpen like you whose only claim to achievement is that "he is a native speaker," which btw includes unreconstructed trash who are garrulous (and coarse) beyond restraint.

And "shrilling like a gecko" does indeed exist somewhere here (two timewasters having a go at each other) as it does in several other places and frankly who cares? Oh and while we're at it "idiot" and "fuck off" are listed in 3 year old posts too. I'm sure such words tickle you to death.

So are you going to quote from the rest of the mangosauce archive next? Suffice to say (and the eloquent Mr Arse too) that whatever I'm saying is not directed at you whatever delusions to the contrary you are harbouring. So dont feel obliged to respond with a barrage of ********** unless of course you feel compelled to do so. If on the other hand you have anything specific to add to any of the words mentioned in the original post or anything about Thailand at all dont let me distract you.

Namban, (and others sorry. I'm afraid I'm not above responding to the tripe above)

No I'm not in MoE now but good guess. Those who used to consult there including the late John Hinds, Chris Watson etc have all moved on and most have gone into business...that was long long ago.... and the books are in print, one has been revamped although I'm not sure if it's still on the shelves. The other one was axed six months after it managed to slip under the local censor's table, now only available in the US. But I'm not at liberty to say more. Re farang I did not say it came to Thailand from the Arabic but that during my stay in the mideast I encountered a version of it (ifranji) ...I was making an overview rather than tracing exact source.

alec says:

Why did you sign your post anonymous satyr and then refer to yourself. stupid, lazy, uneducated, unwashed just one big brothel, pretty strong stuff you certainly have a high opinion of yourself. My guess is you have been seriously conned by some bargirl lost a lot of money or had your heart broken. Now for someone with such a high opinion of himself this must have been hard to take so i guess you have a love hate relationship with thailand, you would love to go back to your own country and meet some one there but being to fat, old, ugly or all three youre stuck in thailand and for someone as intelligent and highbrow as yourself you must hate yourself. Better still why not turn all that hate on the thais. Just for the record we in korat married to nice educated girls despise the stupid, lazy, uneducated, unwashed whore mongering foreigners that give us a bad name. Can usually spot them when they come up here with there bargirls, singha or chang vests and shorts is there uniform, knuckles dragging along the floor. I enjoyed that great fun being a pompous prick who probably looks down on everyone not just thais eh, satyr or anonymous.

Franger says:

Dickhead – now that the cap fits. Was there some reason that you couldn’t cut and paste that last post? unfortunately you got the spelling wrong. Perhaps you have dredged the archives so often that you thought you could rely on memory. And now you have plumbed new depths by constructing a fictitious post to yourself in support of your ridiculous fantasy. This may have been done before in this forum but never, to my knowledge, so blatantly. What you fail to understand, Dickhead, is that people of your obviously low ability always measure other people’s wheat with their own bushel. That’s why you have taken to trying to admonish me with the same criticisms that I have made against you. As for books, well, you wouldn’t understand the books that I read but I do recommend that you turn to your well worn English grammar books and look at the section on using nouns as adjectives. Clearly it really upset you to discover that you first post in this thread was completely wrong, especially after all that cutting and pasting, but it might help you if you understood why it could not be correct.

doc der says:

Boksidar bor kow jai! I prefer the Loation-Isarn version of farang boksidar I dont know why! It still has those racist connotations of outsider who does not belong.Imagine going around saying 'migrant' 'foreigner' whatever to people youd quite rightly get a kicking Why do the polite civilized Thais think they can get away with it in a global context?? Derr its not darkling but Loatian 'Dak' ling literally: "arse monkey"

shaft185 says:

seeing all the different names thai call us westerners, its quite all right. But when your being refered to something use in sex " con dum" polite or not its just not what i'd like to hear them call me, might as well call me mates, same thing different package.

Dicer says:

Lonely fella standing arms akimbo telling a small audience of imaginary students about nouns and adjectives. You truly are tedious like that other tosser who you clearly admire. Let me give you another quote from the very page you found "shrilling like a gecko." Here: remora on my arse....remember that one? good. Then, remora on my arse,

I find the attention you've given me quite repugnant.

What's the matter now? Did I break right through your alientation defense barrier and left you raw and bleeding and a virus cut right into your spirit that you had to foam that one about nouns and adjectives. oops!

jimbo says:

why dont you psycho idiots f*** off somewhere else. Some serious amount of shit coming out of you.

There is one local bar here where STD riddled whores end up after 1am and all the town's farangs show up for after hour drinks. I went there once only to see a fight break out between these two reject farangs and the cops were watching and laughing outside, a right zoo. Franger you loudmouthed wanker... were you the scabby one with a tatoo down his neck who wouldnt stop barking?

namban says:

Dicer, yes I remember John Hinds. I only knew him through a friend who was at Thamaasat. When Hinds was living in Japan I'd already left bkk for Tokyo. He had some interesting theories about the Thai and Japanese languages re delayed purpose, waffling and so on..

Looper says:

'...she referred to a colleague as liking "farang sait"'

I always understood Farang to be a shortened version of Farangset which is supposed to mean french person.
Since the original colonial power in the region were the greasy frenchies all white people became known as Farangset or Farang.
I have no idea where I read or heard this (years ago) so I may be talking bar girl bollocks.

daniel says:

i always get the feeling when i walk in to somewhere and you can hear the word....farang farang been muttered, that in certain contexts be a insult, it could also mean they are curious but farang: which means 'white skinned foreigner', or maybe caucasian. yes im white and when in thailand a foreigner but how it could be used as a racial slur.

david did you know however the term 'mong' near the cambodian-thai borders means...crazy in the same sense as ting-tong is used.

dum- dum however is the expression i heard to represent africans, so this must be the non-polite way........

its all becoming clearer now.

Formerly Isaan Farang says:

I agree with Dicer on "Farang kii nok". It was used in a somewhat rueful way by my coworkers when my Thai got good enough that I was figuring out what was going on. There may well be another connotation for Bangkok or used for backpackers or for other situations. But I can confirm that the one Dicer used was correct in my circumstance.

namban says:

Dicer,
BTW, you really should get your arse fixation seen to!

zaminlove says:

In secondary schools, young people address each others with improper & abusive languages. Also,they use the words fuck and shit all the time, or their equivalents in other langages. It seems that this is so in every day life: insults are easily uttered but then have less impact due to over-use.

It seems that foreigners are rarely accepted 100% in any countries even more so when they are very different.
However, fights and brawls for such petty reasons show narrow-mindedness.

Thai people must not be resumed as either residing in a bar or cultivating rice.
Besides, French people are not 'greasy' in general. They have not yet adopted the MacDonalds and their women are often slimmer than in Britain or US.

Well, in spite of that I found the site most alive and sometimes funny but so much aloof from real-life. I hope not to meet one day a chap who will beat my shit out just because he thought I was insulting him!

Dicer says:

Those not historically inclined can ignore this.

Additional perspective on words like jek and ai yun.

I used to hear government office janitors and cleaners in my old workplace use jek while wagging their chins in the stairways. A little chitchat and reading revealed that jek gained currency in the 30s when Phibun openly told the Thais that Chinese immigrants were game..... growing number of Chinese people showing up in the country as a result of the KMT-Communist fighting had fuelled xenophobia. Unlike before where only Chinese men would emigrate to Thailand and take up locals the newcomers brought birds with them and had no clear intent of ever wanting to become Siamese. There was some concern if the new lot would assimilate or not and if they could be trusted. Questions like "would you trust a jek" were heard quite often. So on one side you had hundreds of thousands of Chinese pouring in who had political motivations unlike their predecessors who just wanted a chance to escape rural Chin poverty. Hence, there was an anti-Chinese campaign and a national motto of Thailand for the Thais (and not the Chinese). So the new Chinese were a target and use of words like jek.

For Thailand's version of Adolf i.e. Phibun, here is a so so introduction: http://www.usmta.com/history-5.htm.

Here is how it happened. When The King abdicated and the country was in turmoil in the 30s Phibun ended up the main player. And came up with interesting laws too, like male children could no longer be given female names so instead of ‘Mandy’ you might turn out ‘Ned.’ Katoeyism was banned and men were required to wear the 30’s type Western business hat especially if going in government buildings. Another memorable suggestion was husbands should kiss their wives goodbye when leaving to work in the morning. Come the war Phibun allowed the Japanese (and this is exactly what happened) to pass through to attack Burma and got on Mountbatten’s black list. After the war, the Brits wanted Phibun’s skin, but there had been one of those odd historical incidents. The yanks had trained a band of Thais, the SERI, to parachute into the country and begin sabotage on the Japanese. They made the mistake of discussing this plan with Brits in China (now this version is different depending on which history you read).There was at least a minor plan of KMT running the north and Brits the south after the war so why let the yanks in? Whatever the case, the SERI boys were caught immediately. Probably the reason Phibun escaped serious trouble at the end of the war was because the perfidious Brits in their scheme to divvy up Siam with Chiang Kai Shek, had made sure the US trained Seri agents were captured and out of the way. At the end of the war when Mountbatten poked around the Phibun problem, the yanks did not comply and our Pop-Eye rode out the storm to surface later as anti-communist.

In the end (1957) it was a second and last exile to Japan for Phibun. What is really interesting here is Phibun’s thinking continues today and although at the onset it was completely anti-Sino, the greatest adherents of we-are-better today is among ethnic Chinese in spite of being personae non gratae during the war. And hence why jek is not in common currency anymore.

Thais today who assiduously avoid serious topics, retrospection, reading, history and controversial subjects like Phibun marching around with samurai swords, assume today’s culture is what is always has been and probably emanating from the monarchs. The fact that he allowed the Japanese to occupy Siam and launch attacks against the British in Burma, his warnings of dealing with the local Chinese as the Germans dealt with Jews, and marching in to take Shan state in Burma, Western Cambodia (which he renamed after himself), and a snip of Malaysia is a case in point. There was, in fact, never a closure to Siam’s role in WWII (fact) as reaching conclusions is as far from national thinking as is synthesis and retrospection. Instead, Smilers elude the entire past and maintain their own present bubble reality....call it fog reality....

The bottomline is: Phibun practically constructed present day Thailand from the ramshackle remains of the Siamese kingdom and even came up with the name Thailand. In fact, so much of today's Thailand is in Phibun's shadow. Thus the dubious Phibun legacy continues in a world where the population confidently knows little: for example, if you ask about Rama V everyone smiles and says,
“Oh, he was a great king.”
“Right, so what did he do?” (This violates the chat rule of follow-ups)
“Er…uh…er…,” and there is no answer.

This seems like mass vacuity and it is; it is probably only rivaled in the US where for instance that annoying Jay Leno regularly conducts street interviews to ask simple questions like who is the vice president or to sing the national anthem: no one knows.The difference between the two parallel cases of vacuity is Smilers are confident of their embodiment of all things national and cultural (until asked a follow-up question); in the US there is just fatuous vacuity and not a sense of knowing anything at all…except how to get to the local Mall...I can add here about vacuity in chavland and euro trash, but I wont.... which is just as well.

Now here is an excercise:

If you can find the Thai word for Generalissimo ( as Thais refer to Phibun with that title rather than his given name) ask an anyone of them over 50 about him and see what you get..... could be a bit like asking the Spaniards about Franco, but here Phibun has been erased from official history.

We had a local college kid in our block with permed hair and effimenate mannerisms, who had the Nazi flag draped over his door. I asked him why he'd got it and he said it looked good, without a hint of irony. Did he know what it stands for? No. Oh, this is getting strange! When asked about Hitler he said "oh him strong man." I've seen swastika bumper stickers and all sorts of parapharnalia in town, which obviously is all cheap Chinese plastic rubbish. But you wonder why would anyone here pretend to be one of Nietzsche's "white beasts of prey." Wierd to say the least...maybe it's Phibun playing games in the afterlife.

Andy says:

Interesting post, Dicer. It always amazes me that Thais know so little of their own history. Thus condemned to forever repeat their own mistakes.

thai passer says:

As A Thai, I would say:

Farang = Westerner (neutral)
Ai Rang = Low life Westerner (rude)

Farang sait = France or French (neutral)
Sait Farang = Low life Westerner (rude)

nekochan's comment is what it all actually is.

soo tired says:

Quit the endless bitching please. Thailand is a racist country and their culture is about as racist as you can get. There you go. They're never going to change so accept it or ship out. PLEASE, there's nothing worse than some loved up 'foreinger' being an apologist for everything Thais say and do.
To all the long term residents that have posted in defence of Thais not being racist here's a little reality check:
1 How many of you have Thai citizenship?
2 How many of you can vote?
3 How many of you are entitled to free health and education for your kids?
4 How many of you are not overcharged when entering national parks/entertainment areas?
5 How many of you can own the house you live in?
6 How many of you are treated like just another human being regardless of your colour or creed?

Humm. Odd, because those are basic things that Thais living in those racist western countries like the US and the UK take for given. Think on.
PS I don't think for a minute that this post will make it past the Mango censor!

Franger says:

thai passer
As you are Thai, do you agree that when a Thai uses the expression "Is he Farangsait or sait Farang" the former applies to any Farang not just French?

Chris the swede says:

Soo tired is right of course!

Except that you can actually own a house..You are just not allowed to own the land it is standing on, but this is splitting hairs, I know. Thais know that being a racist is negative, so they always object to being described as such. But the fact of the matter is that if you treat a person differently because of his ethnicity then this is completely racicst..Thais in general are just not educated enough to know unerstand the meaning of words such as "racist". ESPECIALLY some Isaan bargirl who went to school for maybe 5 years tops before she started working in a ricefield for a few years and then getting pregnant with a gambling crazy drunk of a thai man in "Baan Noak"...Then divorce...Followed by the "gold at the end of the rainbow" sight of the girl next door coming home from Pattaya to the parents in a new car, bringing presents and start construction on a new house..Making her want to go to Pattaya to "Lock Farang"..

How could I get upset about a person like her not knowing the definition of the word "racist"? She would probably even take our, the farang, side if the situation was explained to her in Isaan dialect!

The problem, the really REAL problem is that Thai people from the middle and upper classes, the educated and "modern" folks are the ones who are really and undisputably racist! They know full well the definition of the word, they are the ones drafting these completely discriminatory, xenophobic and, yes, racist laws. And they don't even try to hide it when you talk to them about it!

They talk of farangs "taking over" the country, our buying power and superior business sense..The tragic and somehow comical fact is that many of the people in the "upper class" in Thailand are not even ethnic thais themselves! People of the ruling class in Thailand in general and the business community in particular are ethnic chinese or at least part chinese. Immigrants!!
As a matter of fact, these peoples own grandparents and/or relatives used to be in much the same situation in the period leading up to the end of WW2,with open discrimination against the ethnic chinese in Thailand, as the farangs living in the kingdom are experiencing today..

Without a hint of shame alot of educated, smart and rich thais explain this with the rather telling comment that, at least the chinese are asian!

Of course I have to except the way thai society is underdeveloped when it comes to human rights and common sense. Yes, common sense. This is a developing country after all, and I love many aspects of living here, so there is not much to do. Except waiting and hoping for change. Chris

Jack Wow says:

For anyone doubting that "farang" is not racist just reread the article again. David's spot-on with his interpretations. For it to be derogatory it must have a word before or after it. It's just a western mind-set to feel offended by being labelled as something. "Farang" is a word that's just stuck in the language, whereas it's just easier for Thais to call someone "farang" rather than European, caucasian etc. Would we feel like we're being offensive by calling them Asian? Nope. In fact, I don't find the word "nigger" offensive (how can I when they call it to themselves? And please, no slavery lectures). I don't find the word "Pakis" offensive - just an abreviation of Pakistanis.
For those who do find "farang" derogatory -you're all just sensitive foreigners.

Jack Wow says:

"Thais in general are just not educated enough to know unerstand the meaning of words such as "racist"."

And where were you educated Chris???

ajarn farang says:

or tell it like it is! well done chris the swede, you made some excellent points there.

Dicer says:

Jack Wow, all those words you dont find offensive can indeed be used to mean several things except perhaps the n word. The CONTEXT is what matters.... If you are in Bradford UK you may hear Pakistani's refer to their lot as Pakis, but that doesn't mean that they appreciate a complete stranger using it. If people dont like being labelled as something then the least we could do is respect that. But yes, complaining about farang is a tad too sensitive. Foreigners in Thailand are called much worse stuff. Actually it tells you more about local mentality than it does about foreigners just as the n word reveals the mental state of the person throwing it about.

Btw sait farang means the leftover from whatever guava you've been eating. another pun for ye all.

Franger says:

Yes Dicer,
Sait farang means exactly as you describe and is also used as an insult to a Farang, in exactly the same way as farang kee nok except that it is a rather worse insult.

Andy says:

If anybody is upset by the references accorded to them by the semi-literate feudalistic fuckwits that govern thinking in this haven of intellectualism that is Thailand; then piss off immediately. Thailand is the "Dumb Blonde" of Asia. Love that fact or leave.

Jack Wow says:

Yeh, point taken Dicer, I'm not one to go around throwing racial slurs, don't worry. But it does tickle me how wound-up people get about name-calling. A bit of buddhist mentality would do these folks the world of good - just watch the words float on by. That's all they are - words (they can't hurt ya).

Minority Girl says:

Some of the posts here are very funny. Some are interesting and informative. Some are just great piles of guava-seed-shaped bird shit.

Dicer, you have lots of good stuff to say, but when you say it all at once in a pompous tirade, you sound like the fat, sweaty, herpes-ridden, geriatric that prays for his 'cheap pussy' cos it's the only way he could possibly get a shag, that you are.

Franger - chill - you're just making him write longer posts!! ;o)

Having just returned from Bangkok and Phuket for the 1st time, i found that in general, if you were polite to Thai people, they were polite in return, much like other people in other countries - funny that.
Quite honestly though, do you not think that considering many of you seem to have been insulted by the girls you are often paying (peanuts) to shag, that its just a simple case of having shit-all respect for each other?

If you think they're all just a load of greasy boxes to stick your skinny little bones in for 65 baht an hour, then why the fuck should they think highly of you?

Chris says:

I was in favourite bar in Chiang Mai when the mamasan's uncle called me a farang.

I wasn't looking for trouble but I'm not going to take shit like that so I pushed him out of his wheelchair and melted his eyeballs with a blowtorch.

The girls were really impressed!

Chris the swede says:

Well Jack Wow...

Just as most of the people on this forum I was educated at home, in my case in Sweden. Why don't you try ask a thai person right of the streat about the definition of the word? And it's an accepted fact that the achilles heel of the thai educational system is the very low quality of higher learning here..Very few universities here cut it in an international comparison. I work alot around the region, just came back from china for example and even though thailand has a much higher GDP per capita the difference between the average chinese university student and thai student is mindblowing..Besides, I worry more about the educated people here who actually know the meaning of "racist"..And still act and talk RACIST. Maybe that doesn't worry you one bit, but I think it's kind of disheartening sometimes.

Chris the swede says:

And Jack,

If you mean that my english is not up to your standard, and that you think this something worth commenting I guess I just wnat to say that my english is probably better than your swedish anyway..I was writing about the meaning of being racist, not using my native language, and what do I get...I guess you are a multilingual woner of a person?

Miah says:

I think it's funny about American Racism- which really doesn't make sense (we're mostly a mix of all races). However, there are two types of Americans- Those with Passports and those without. I don't like most Americans without, but typically I like the ones with passports. On the other hand....I am a southern boy aka rebel so Yankee to us would be an insult...FYI. Just remember before you judge us rebs...a quote-

"History is a set of lies agreed upon"
Napoleon

dave says:

It's interesting to stop and look at these posts; then think, thank buddha thai's arent as racist nor aggressive as we.

we've been tought that racism is a terrible thing;thais haven't.

but point is, thais are even racist of issan folk. ok, not racist, but prejudiced. same damn thing.

2nd rate folk who get paid 60% of what 'true thais' earn.

chinese are rarely slandered, as they have brought prosperity to this country. others believe it was citybank.

premier plonk toxic chockerwokka had little opposition to his chineseness, until recently.

be glad you're white in thailand; i've seen a black guy beaten by 8 thugs,he was walking down silom,and did nothing to rile them.

ferang- harmless to a point. learn the other 200 derogatory phrases before changing your mind.

when i hear 'ferang', i hear 'that bastard with BIG MONEY'

This phrase is far more offensive,''big money''.

i often lay awake wondering why thais did not discover that the silica content in rice husk is high enough to burn to make electric. And why they sold their oilfields to the west. Did they invent gasohol,and if so ,is this thailands first invention?

Will they ever care about their own lives enough to drive carefully? Until THEN, there is little chance of them caring for us, or our thoughts on the term 'ferang'.
I've joked with many thai friends about me being a ferang ki nok, mostly they pretend to have never heard that term before. They're lying ,to be polite. That says a lot.

racist but polite.

A big thanks to the chinese for cutting down on ''LOWEI'' . In 6weeks, i heard it twice.

i hear ferang 20 times a day here, they dont mean to be racist, no more than they mean to be ignorant. They just have zero interest in whether you're french,german,english, american. Big Money is Big Money.

I have never been racist, but shouted LOWEI to some chinese tourists in UK....Merely to show them how it feels to be singled out from a crowd of PEOPLE.

but i'm going home after 15 years in thailand, as an extreme racist. I came here as a hippy,loving all,seeing ALL poepla as the same.

They knocked my sensitivity out of me years ago.

no thai is buddhist,, money is their faith.

land of smiles my arse. taxin has bred millions of money grabbing minions. money money money.

to beee number 1 ?

uweee skin-whitening wotion compwex?

to want to be white, but to resent all whites, that must hurt huh ?

Andy says:

Weird how the term "racist" has supplanted "murderer" or even "rapist" as a horrible accusation.
Usually slung around by the PC Fascist brigade that will brook no argument against their naive bullshit world views.
Everybody is racist to some extent. So what?

stebe says:

CHRIS.....
still got a sense of humour then i see.

i must say i was in the kangaroo bar in patong beach phuket last week and some old pissed up scandinavian guy kept on grabbing me and hugging me...

anyway i with a swift headbutt to his pickled nose he met the floor with an almighty crash.

however i still had my bill to pay and he didnt so he also got thrown out and i didnt.

excellent!

Jack Wow says:

Chris the swede
Try not to confuse education with intelligence. A lack of international standard education doesn't mean somebody does not know the difference between being derogatory or not.
If Thais are not to call us "farang" what would it be?
"Foreigner" "European" "Westerner" are not Thai words, so why should they change their language to pander to our insecurities?
And I don't believe that Thais are racist in the same context that we see the word "racism" in the west. Like Andy said to be called a "racist" you're on a par with a murderer or a rapist.
Thankfully the PC brigade haven't headed out here yet.
Chris - jag skickar en veckotidning så du kan börja planera din resa till Kalifornien

Dicer says:

Jack Wow says, "If Thais are not to call us "farang" what would it be?
"Foreigner" "European" "Westerner" are not Thai words, so why should they change their language to pander to our insecurities? "

I see your point, just to add though farang is not a Thai word as well but a bastardised version of the Arabic ifranji and Hindi Farangi. How about polite or neutral Thai terms like Khon Tang Prathaet (a bit of a mouthful) literally meaning a foreigner or Khon Tang Daw (a non Thai, actually can refer to people who dont have ID cards). There are several neutral words one hears on the news frequently. having said that though we know people on the street dont speak the neutral language of someone in front of an autocue. And I think the word "xenophobia" fits better than "racism".

Chris the swede says:

Actually,

I don't have a problem with being called Farang...I was responding to the text posted by Soo tired about thais being racist. So I guess I kind of lost my way a bit, ok. Maybe this "racism" in thailand will be another topic here some day. And Stebe, what was your post all about? First of all, I'm swedish not "scandinavian"...Plus, if you ever were to meet me you don't have to worry about me hugging or grabbing you. And why did you feel you needed to headbutt someone for being nerdy when drunk? I'm 31 years old, 192 cm tall and weighing in around 110 kilos...I'd probably kick your ass to hell if you for some weird reason felt the need to headbutt me for being "Scandinavian"

Jack Wow says:

I think Stebe was talking to this Chris -

I was in favourite bar in Chiang Mai when the mamasan's uncle called me a farang.

I wasn't looking for trouble but I'm not going to take shit like that so I pushed him out of his wheelchair and melted his eyeballs with a blowtorch.

The girls were really impressed!

Posted by Chris | September 6, 2006 3:28 PM

I think Stebe, like Chris, is just taking the piss - pretending to be mindless thugs. I'm sure he'd be horrified to learn that a 192cm tall, weighing in at 110kilos, Scandinavian wanted to kick his ass to hell.

daniel says:

Take it from me i think stebe and chris were taking the piss it really is so funny to see how many of you are so gullible even when sat in front of a computer.
chris the swede try not to take it too seriously you more than likely could kick the shit out of them but why bother when the post was aimed at some scandanavian guy not i.e chris the swede.

well said jack wow, im sure we will be hearing from other members of your family before long.

chock dee

chris the swede says:

Meaning of Farang..

In the niddle of the 19th century during the reign of King Mongkut Rama IV it was decided that Siam would end it's isolasionist policy towards the outer world..It was a decision supposedly made because the king understood that it was the only way to avoid being colonised, by engaging in economic and diplomatic activities with the european powers. The first to arrive in Siam as traders were the Portugese by the way, in the 16th century, while yuttaya was still capital. After 200 years of blooming trade and economic development a new mindset came to dominate, one of fear and misstrust. Hence the disastrous period of isolation that led to the Burmese finally being able to destroy Ayuttaya 1767 because Siam had started to rot from within because of lack of trade and influx of foreign ideas..

The first to arrive after Siam changed it's policy was the french...France in thai is still today "FARANGset". Farang meant frenchman in thai! However, later lots of other representatives from various european powers arrived, leading to the word FARANG to mean WHITE EUROPEAN! Nowadays it means WHITE PERSON OF EUROPEAN DESCENT! So, that includes all Australians and New Zeelanders and what have you...This is proved by old scripts and text from the Ayuttaya period, so al this talk about some Ethiopian word being the source of the word FARANG and "spreading" eastwards is of course totally wrong.

Do you think people in thailand actually call the nation of France "Barbarianland" if we were to translate the word "Farangset" literally? You have to be joking...

Chris the swede

Common Sense says:

chris the swede,

Nowadays it means WHITE PERSON OF EUROPEAN DESCENT!

Where do the Americans fall into this theory of yours. Do we get called farangs or do we retain our normal title of "Asshole"?

Daniel says:

why chris the swede do you keep posting your farang rants to other threads on this site.....my my chris you really have a stick up your ass.

Looper says:

When the french rocked up and introduced themselves they would have said they were 'francaise'. The Thais might have separated the F and the R and hardened the trailing S (as they tend to do) to get farancsait - which could then have got shortened to farang. I have no evidence on which to base this random speculation.

TANAI KWAI says:

Looper,

Well done. I'm going with that.

By the way, not only white people are called "Farang." I have heard just about every racial type of American called "farang," for example.

TK

Common Sense says:

I think it is best to just assume that farang means anyone not Thai.

Jack Wow says:

Common sense, either get an education or read the original article.

Common Sense says:

Jack Wow,

You've got me baffled on this one. Get an education??? Reread the article???

For what to see that David says "farang" means caucasian. If thats the case then why were my coworkers who were black, Mexican, Korean, Vietnamese, and caucasian all get called "farang" by Thai's???

Heres a bit of education for you. When words are used for slang they often adapt new meanings. "Farang" has obviously come to mean many things other than caucasian. If you would venture out of your shack every now and then you may realize this. As for any of the other expressions David mentions, I can't recall ever hearing them from a Thai to describe an American.

Jack Wow says:

Common sense, your R&R jaunts to Pattaya and the like don't really make you the oracle on the Thai language.

Bar girls tend to use "farang" to group together anyone that isn't Thai, because to them "farang" has also come to mean "customer".

Language - accents, slang terms etc - constantly evolve everywhere in the world, but "farang" still essentially translates as "caucasian".

And you wrote this -

"Nowadays it means WHITE PERSON OF EUROPEAN DESCENT!
Where do the Americans fall into this theory of yours"

- What do they teach you at school about your heritage? More than 200 million Americans are of European decent.

If you need any more schooling feel free to drop by my shack any time - me and the locals always go out of our way to make ai gans feel welcome round here.

Common Sense says:

Jack Wow,

WTF are you arguing about here. I already stated i understand that the dictionary definition of "farang" means caucasian and that it has evolved to mean other things through slang. So just exactly what the hell are you educating me on besides things i already know. Are you so desperate for attention that you are arguing a proven point.

Over 200 million Americans may be of European decent but not a European out there will ever claim us as their own.

WE ARE AMERICANS!!! Bastard children of the world. Loved and despised by many.

Jack Wow says:

I'm not arguing with you, common sense, just trying to make sense of your contradictions.

"Nowadays it means WHITE PERSON OF EUROPEAN DESCENT!"

And...

"I think it is best to just assume that farang means anyone not Thai."

Today's lesson: Try and work out in your own mind what you really think before writing it down.

Class dismissed.

Common Sense says:

Jack Wow,

If you would pay attention you would notice that I was quoting Chris the Swede when I said "Nowadays it means WHITE PERSON OF EUROPEAN DESCENT!" Not stating it as an opinion of my own. Go study your materials before you try to hold class on anyone. YOUR FIRED

Jack Wow says:

Good to see you used quotation marks this time, common sense. Very good. I will still need your interpretation of "farang" in by friday please. Caucasian? Or anybody who isn't Thai?

Common Sense says:

Do you pay attention to anything other than what is going on in your head. I've given my interpretation. It's BOTH. Just depends on the context in which one uses the word. Or whether your a twat who can't think outside of websters Thai dictionary.

Next time you plan on engaging in a conversation please inform me in advance so I can take the unnecessary steps of adding quotation marks, intext citations, reference pages, bibliographies, and requesting for David to draw a gigantic fuckin word art arrow to the quote. Then again all of this would be alleviated if you would just stay with the conversation instead of jumping in at random points with no prior knowledge of what was said. Ahhh but it was you who said I should reread the original article.

Well I'm going to be absent for a few days as I head to the Philippines. I expect that you will have packed your crap and moved out of class before I return since you've recieved your walking papers.

Dicer says:

Oh please.

sort it out will ya boys...

History young men, history. What is farang exactly?

In China you have thousands of years of curtailing the 20% alpha males...only the emperor got to be alpha...hence Byzantium was upset when a real alpha was crowned Emperor of Holy Rome by Pope Leo in 800 AD. An alpha on top. And a real one. A shock to the world. A name heard all around the world

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARANG.

You even guess that Chinese do not even get the 20% alpha males. Their deal is cooperation not hunting. They survive by harmony not individual alpha effort. Of course the alpha Mongols made mincemeat of the Chinese as did the Manchus. We are left with three alpha males: The emotional-feeler is the best single warrior, like the chivalrous Franks. The auditory group is OK and will be stubborn (Japs) well trained (Sung Chinese) and make an effort (Roman) but helpless against a visual barbarian pack (goths). Then you look at THIS bunch, the ME FIRST, and the ME ONLY alpha, and then the OTHE