January 18 2007

Farangs get run out of town

dick

When the money runs out, taking a dive from a high balcony is sometimes considered a better option than returning to Farangland but six empty beer bottles and a misspelled note is hardly a legacy to be proud of so most guys choose to carry on living.

After his Pattaya bar folded, Bill (not his real name) had little choice but to return to London.

Finding an affordable apartment was impossible so he had to settle for his ex-wife's spare bedroom on a bleak peripheral council estate - the kind of place where everyone owns a baseball bat but no one plays baseball.

His Thai wife was initially less than thrilled but soon cheered up when she realised that, in London, men pay good money to have sex with a well-preserved bargirl in her early forties.

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Bill's job was to drive her to and from whatever brothel she happened to be working in that day.

Soon, he was regularly ferrying a dozen or so Thai prostitutes and their various hangers on between brothels and casinos and even to the temple. However, given the number of farang returnees competing for the same work, he had to diversify into smuggling cigarettes from the Continent.

His only complaint was that the UK customs officers eventually began to recognise his face and, from time to time, they'd confiscate an entire cargo in return for turning a blind eye.

Perhaps they'd spent a bit of time in Thailand too.

Eventually, Bill secured his own council tenancy and, with the welfare benefits that he and his wife were also claiming, life became quite comfortable.

Far from being a broken man, he was one of the most cheerful characters I've ever met.

Bill was an old rascal who'd never done an honest day's work in his life but there's another class of men who try to do everything by the rules but still come unstuck in Thailand. Many of them are English teachers.

Teaching English is the ideal choice for a gap-year stud or a middle-aged gentleman of leisure who needs to get out of the house (or the bar) for a few days a week but it's hardly a career. Despite the poor prospects, however, Bangkok is awash with whiteboard warriors clad in their poverty-dictated uniform of a polyester tie, cheap shoes and a shoulder bag.

A man in his thirties dressed like this has clearly been here too long. When he says "I'm a sort of corporate facilitator developing core competencies in the management field" you can almost feel the heat from his burning sense of shame.

Teaching English amounts to career suicide. Regardless of how professional you might be, everyone assumes that you're just another John Mark Karr and, when you finally give up and go home, you've rendered yourself practically unemployable because your contemporaries already have ten years relevant experience.

Even if you're on an expat package, a stint in Thailand amounts to a stain on your character. Assignments in Hong Kong or Singapore might be good for the CV but, if you disclose to potential employers that you've been working in Bangkok, it's probably going to act against you.

Better to tell them that you've been in prison.

[Posted to Farang Life by David]

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Readers' comments

CBM says:

Are you categorically implying that 'stickman' is a loser and unworthty to inhabit the face of this earth?
And when so many english are strutting their stuff, the language skills of an average thai still lacks a proper verb and tense.
may be its time to bring in a couple of french teachers to right the wrongs.

January 18, 2007 1:17 PM

Paul says:

Its a sad reality that much of what you have written is true. I dont think teachers have a great reputation the world over, I refer to the phrase, 'If you can't do, teach'. However, teachers do an important job that is often underpaid and unrewarded. Its a pitiful situation when I feel almost ashamed to say I am a teacher.

I dont think western ESL teachers are to blame for the Thai's poor command of English. Its more a combination of a failed and ill thought out policy from the 'Education' Ministry and the general laziness of the students.

Having said that, I wonder what percentage of Brits or Americans speak a foreign language to a high standard. From my experience they dont have a full grasp of their own.

January 18, 2007 2:37 PM

Kasman says:

I think being an English teacher is better than being a wannabe webmaster that lives on google adword income. There are some good teachers here and to categorize all of them the same is typical uneducated mangosauce bullshit.

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Hi Kasman

Read the article again. It doesn't bash English teachers. It highlights how they are undervalued and lack prospects.

You seem to make a habit of misunderstanding my articles. Either you have an axe to grind or your comprehension skills are poor.

Which is it?

Regards
David

January 18, 2007 2:47 PM

Andy says:

Its sad but probably true that a lot of people sacrifice a career (if they even ever had one) to stay in LOS.

This piece rather reads a little like David's swansong here also... I hope not, but its been 3+ years of laughs and drama and I thank him for providing Thailand's best and funniest blog. *sniff*

Cheers.

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Hi Andy

I'm happy to report that, despite suffering a double whammy from Google, I've no intention of quitting.

I'm a "middle-aged gentleman of leisure who needs to get out of the house (or the bar) for a few days a week" so my current troubles are a setback rather than a calamity.

If the Google traffic returns then I'll keep Mango Sauce going in its present form but, if it doesn't, then I'll either have to make some changes to the site or create a new one.

I should know for sure in about six weeks.

Regards
David

January 18, 2007 3:53 PM

Whippet says:

The people I feel sorry for are the fully qualified, experienced (e.g., experience gained in a *real* teaching environment, not a TEFL production line) teachers here who are doing a good job in the very best schools. It must be the one job where the embarrassment brought to their profession by these people is but a small cross to bear compared to the salary price-war they are subject to from the "happy hour bar hoppers".

I always remember the English guy who drunkenly and loudly exclaimed he was a great English teacher before unrinating over the old Soi Zero steps (and himself) before falling asleep for a couple of hours by the pool table clutching his Beer Chang.

However, for even the rest of us lucky / sensible enough to do something a bit more concrete to survive here, the potential upcoming changes to foreign investment rules could see us *all* flying home en-mass sooner than we'd like. The Western governments must be praying this doesn't happen: where will they put all their fuckwit prodigal sons?

January 18, 2007 3:57 PM

Popo says:

I have been working here six months in a management position within a Thai company. I came here for the experience, because I have friends and family here and because the job looked (and is) quite good. Are you saying I will have trouble getting a job back home because of the time I am spending here? Is Thailand really viewed that badly? The work I do is quite challenging and, I would say, of an international standard. Never occurred to me that people would look down on my time here. Am I in trouble?

January 18, 2007 4:52 PM

Dr John says:

Popo: Work experience gained in Thailand has about the same value to a potential employer as a Thai university degree. Would you want to go under the knife if you knew that your surgeon had been trained in Thailand?

January 18, 2007 5:28 PM

NotAnyBangkokRelatedWebsite.com says:

David, are we to understand from the article and your comment that you also teach English to get out of the house / bar / house-bar? (Nothing wrong with that, unless it involves a polyester tie).

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Hi NABRW

I'm not a teacher. However, if Mango Sauce hadn't taken off, I would have considered teaching just to keep myself busy. Without a hobby, life in Thailand can become excruciatingly boring.

Regards
David

January 18, 2007 5:48 PM

meister says:

One of my University friends became an English teacher in Bangkok, and consequently, I know a number of them.

Some are complete sex pests but a couple of them are very good at what they do. The vast majority of them probably don't give two hoots about prospects. Teaching English is a means to get their end away!

When crunch time comes (and it will for most) a Bangkok teaching job on your CV probably isn't going to be too helpful.

January 18, 2007 6:13 PM

Grunt says:

I dont see the problem. Bill seems a regular saint to me.

Put him on the ticket come 2008, Id vote for him in a second.

January 18, 2007 7:07 PM

Paul says:

Dr.John, you may be right about some universities in Thailand.

But, like the previous comments about English teachers, you are generalizing. I study at Bangkok University and like some 400+ other foriegn students will graduate from there.

The general standard of many of the Thai students on the "International program" is poor, but this is their second language. All of them do however, like me gain, an invaluable opportunity to meet people from different back-grounds and make excellent contacts for the future. Plus, for the Thai students, as they are "force fed" English, most of them have better language skills than most of you idiots who write in here. Most of my Thai friends have graduated and began careers with top companies both in Bangkok and overseas.

I have a year left in my study, I landed a job at a large software company in Thailand last year, they got me a work permit, sponsor my study, and pay me 30k a month to live on for a part-time position. They will also pay for me to do my MBA, at Mahidol University, and the degree is from the University of Management in Sydney.

Mahidol, BUIC, ABAC and Chula have excellent exchange programs, providing both excellent lecturers from overseas, as well as giving students oportunities to study at other universities as well. I could also talk about a friend who is now on exchange in Australia and another who will study in Tokyo next semester.

So, even having not finished at a Thai Univeristy, I don't think I'm doing so bad doing my degree here. In fact I couldn't be happier, surrounded by beautiful girls and perfect weather.

I don't mean to blow my own trumpet. But, just in case anyone listens to you, and the others, who seem to spend all their time trying to knock down those of us who are actually making a success of ourselves in Thailand. Go back to having your own trumpet blown under the table in Patpong.

Meanwhile we will continue, looking forward to that day the guy talks about above- when they kick the rest of you losers back to your home countries. Oh, I forgot, it's up already.

And, by the way, about the operation, my university also provides 1st class health insurance for 3000 baht a year. So, should I need to go under the knife at Boomrumgrad, I need not worry,

January 18, 2007 7:32 PM

Dr John says:

Paul: When I wrote "Work experience gained in Thailand has about the same value to a potential employer as a Thai university degree" I wasn't suggesting that a Thai degree has NO value. The point I was making is that it has limited value OUTSIDE THAILAND. The fact that you are boasting that your degree will be awarded by the University of Management in Sydney speaks for itself.

I also said "Would you want to go under the knife if you knew that your surgeon had been trained in Thailand?" Bumrungrad is a decent enough local hospital but when they become seriously ill Thailand's ruling classes prefer to be treated at a world-class facility like the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

January 18, 2007 8:18 PM

Dr John says:

Paul: Let me just add that I'm not having a go at you and I wish you every success in your studies.

January 18, 2007 8:30 PM

Master Educator says:

It's always a pleasure to read the cynical ramblings of a fellow Bangkok expat, but unless you've actually experienced the teaching professinon as a professional, and not as a TEFOL endowed sex tourist, then you can really see the difference between us.
A TEFOL job is the equivilant to that of being a counselor of summer camp, whereas an international school, depending on which, is respected institution. I don't anticipate any problems in citing this job on my CV, although I do recognize that professional teachers can be given a bad name through the doings of the less morally responsible expats here.
Only time will tell, but seriously, why be here if you're not interested in enjoying the time of the present?

January 18, 2007 8:33 PM

Paul says:

Dr.John, I actually meant the University of Technology in Sydney. But, at the end of the day all of my study will be undertaken in at a university in Thailand.

I do accept that your opinion prevails, that a Thai degree holds little value in western countries. My point is that in my experience, the university education I recieve here is of a high standard. I am from the UK and also studied there at undergraduate level. In my case I came to complete my study here as I knew my future lay in Asia.

Out of the percentage of students that graduate from Thailand as a whole, I would guess maybe 5% anticipate working outside of Asia. Maybe, I am wrong but, I think a Thai degree, particularly, when considered with the level of GPA, would be regarded equally in most Asian-Pacific nations.

I must stress I can only speak for the handfull of universities with international programs.

Regards,

January 18, 2007 9:33 PM

Prufrock says:

Just calm down a bit there Master Educator.

While you may be raking in (more or less) the pricely sum of 2500 USD per month, some daddies on this board have a pretty good idea of the grovelling shit you have to go through to get your hands on it. (PTA meetings worldwide are just fascinating aren't they?)

I'm just going to leave it there, okay?

Prufrock

January 18, 2007 9:44 PM

Matsimus says:

Some people I hate recently had to leave Thailand because of the new visa rules. You can't buy moments like that.

January 18, 2007 10:45 PM

Bangkokbear says:

Prufock

Better to be grovelling at PTA meetings in Bangkok for us 2500 a month than having to put up with the little fuc........morons in the UK or picking up baht30000 with a TEFL

January 18, 2007 11:29 PM

TANAI KWAI says:

"...professional teachers can be given a bad name through the doings of the less morally responsible expats here."

Hmm, quite... I do hope Master Educator's example of moral responsibility inspires piety in all of those who, like himself, are keenly attracted to the bastion of decency that is Mango Sauce (which you can easily access by searching for "thailand gote").

"Bangkok is awash with whiteboard warriors clad in their poverty-dictated uniform of a polyester tie, cheap shoes and a shoulder bag."

At least one primary school, located on Soi 22, requires that these poor bastards wear a short-sleeved dress shirt that has been artlessly embroidered with the name of the institution on the back -- exactly like those worn by their students. Just darling. Yes, I'm sure the sight of man in uniform inspires extra-special attention from the ladies when these prestigious instructors slip into the G-Spot for a nooner.

January 19, 2007 12:56 AM

NotAnyBangkokRelatedWebsite.com says:

I understand what you mean about the boringness - I ran through the possibility of moving to Thailand longer-term, but I'd need some sort of business to keep the brain cells fresh, and what with all the shenanigans over the last few months I think I'll give it a miss, until things settle down.

Anyway, here's a topical article about some more English teachers being run out of town - in a departure from the usual circumstances - for reasons not involving the "p" word:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/170107_News/
17Jan2007_news20.php

I love the wais in the photo.

January 19, 2007 4:41 AM

Jake says:

"Bumrungrad is a decent enough local hospital" Dr John.
Seems pretty world class to me. I had my appendix out there, and you can barely see the scar. It's better than any hospital that I've been to in the UK (although I haven't been to that many, it's true). And admittedly the surgeon may have been trained in the West.

January 19, 2007 5:08 AM

Prufrock says:

I'm just going to leave it there, OKAY ;-?

Prufrock

January 19, 2007 5:57 AM

James says:

David,

Are you interested in selling MangoSauce? Email me if you have a dollar figure in mind.

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Hi James

Thanks for the enquiry but Mango Sauce isn't for sale.

Regards
David

January 19, 2007 6:30 AM

Johnny cum lately says:

"I think being an English teacher is better than being a wannabe webmaster that lives on google adword income"

I certainly don't. One has a future and one doesn't.

Teaching English in a cram school is an interesting and sometimes valuable experience but it's a black hole on anyone's resume. Anyone teaching English in Thailand for years on end is either comfortable with that, unemployable otherwise, or completely lost.

January 19, 2007 6:49 AM

Whatever says:

From my observations, there are a lot of teachers at the much vaunted International School companies who would not be teaching at their local comprehensives in the UK; they are definitely the bottom of the pile despite their qualifications and the blokes amongst them did not come here with any more noble intentions than the next man.

Oooh - paedo arrested at GIS in Bangkok! Good background checks there, have a cigar.

January 19, 2007 8:46 AM

chris says:

suddenly notmangosuace dot com is a good idea ,you turning into a knobrot david,i feel this website is dead and buried your puting down the people who read it u idoit.

January 19, 2007 9:45 AM

gonzo says:

I live on Soi 22 and see these embroidered polo shirts with the school's name on the backs of these poor economically-challenged farangs. But I always think "cool," I want a shirt with Thai writing on it too. But I'm not a bargirl at the G-Spot seeking boyfriend or money; I'm an older man, from America, with a Ph.D. What do I know? Better just to be wealthy, not work and wear t-shirts I suppose, now I can stop my envy.

January 19, 2007 10:27 AM

Diver says:

Since working as a diving instructor can be seen as a type of teacher I guess I am one of these without any future...
Although I do have a great time and it is only a temporary position.

I must say that when I first came here to Thailand I had a very different opinion about this place, I loved it, people, weather, cheap beers...
But now, after only being here for four months I see Thailand for what it really is, a Xenophobic, corrupt third rate country with absolutely limited prospects. A feudal state one might say. I have about a month left and after that I will surely not return for any length of time, I will come over for perhaps a week or two but there is a greater chance for snow in hell or flying pigs than me actually considering living here...
I thought it was bad in Korea with the Xenophobia, Thai is worse because it is so well hidden behind "the face"

January 19, 2007 10:36 AM

Wombat says:

Am I supposed to believe that all TEFL accredited teachers are simply tourists enjoying extended experiences in gogo bars whereas so called "professional" teachers (many of whom signed up for the lenghy holidays) are there for wholly altruistic reasons? Don't you love stereotyping?

January 19, 2007 1:43 PM

Dicer says:

"http://www.bangkokpost.com/170107_News/
17Jan2007_news20.php

I love the wais in the photo." - NotAnyBangkok..

Note how contrite our boys are and that's the whole point. Make the barbarians beg on their knees and their lawyer right there pulling the strings. This of course is the cyclic fun like banning extra strength vitamin C or going on about maidens rescued from brothels. Crack down on the English teachers. Certificates? Between Chula and Thammasat about 3 teachers out of 28 foreigners actually have certificates.

January 19, 2007 2:16 PM

Anonymous says:

I saw the 'penitant teachers' picture in Wednesday's Bangkok Post and was concerned for their welfare but that very same night I saw the pair of them playing pool in the Rooftop Garden on Suk Soi 5 with a couple of bar girls in tow. What conclusions should we draw from that?

January 19, 2007 2:40 PM

Thaihome says:

"Even if you're on an expat package, a stint in Thailand amounts to a stain on your character. Assignments in Hong Kong or Singapore might be good for the CV but, if you disclose to potential employers that you've been working in Bangkok, it's probably going to act against you.

Better to tell them that you've been in prison."

Iâ€™m not sure what types of real expat jobs you are referring to, but having worked in Thailand is not considered a â€œstain on your characterâ€ in the international business world. To have been involved in managing one of the past or current major projects or running a company in Thailand is a plus on anyoneâ€™s CV. For most it is only one stop on a long list and no one is thought less of for having worked here.
But it was an amusing article.
TH

January 19, 2007 3:35 PM

Road Natzi says:

David,

You're a crack up. Funny story, but you lost me when it came to one or ur replies regarding, life being boring in thailand.

Unlike others here, I don't have a business in thailand at the present time and despite spending alot of time in thailand, I never get bored.

Also, perhaps you can call me, make me ur agent, because I was shocked to read ur reply to James, where you replied Mango Sauce is not for sale. Let me tell you David, EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE (Except 'Commons' Anal virginity), EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE FOR THE 'RIGHT' PRICE. Anyway James, perhaps David knows something about you that I don't BUT I will offer you the all important MANGO TREE, it's for sale, its the root to all Mango Sauce and is yours, lock stock and barrel for just $25 million US. But if you are quick and are in the first 100 callers, you will receive a free set of steak knives.

January 19, 2007 6:03 PM

bkkred says:

The usual 'my job is better than your job' debate so beloved of thai blogs.If people want to work for 30k and hang around bars so what?Aside from obvious salary advantages could someone point out the sheer pleasures of being say a loan officer or a middle ranking exec at a plaster board company.Perhaps loss adjusting or being an airline pilot has a hidden layer of spiritual fullfillment we are all unaware of.(a mate of mine flies for united and recently described his job as boredom mixed with dashes of terror).I speak with some authority as I spent a couple of years as a teacher and then went back to what everyone would consider a proper job.It has obvious advantages in terms of salary etc that cannot be denied, I have no intention of retiring to a life of poverty but I am reasonably well payed because i sit through endless meetings,I travel alot which was fun for the first year and then just becomes tedious (everytime I land in singapore its 'singapore again'.I have to manage a team who are great people but still need to be managed and I am in turn managed with all the attendant problems that entails.I work ,like most people, very very long hours and my weekends are largely unproductive.The job is interesting sometimes but I often reflect on teaching and the fun,and the lack of stress involved and I still remember my students from way back when.
lets be honest the vast majority of people do not do jobs they enjoy and if you do question them on the factors that they like they revolve around the periferies of the work, never the actual work itself.If ,as we all are to a certain extent, money slaves then so be it but mindlessly bagging on teachers to hide short comings in our own not so brilliant careers wears a bit thin after a while.
After a number of years of solid graft and saving the pennies I'm thinking of returning to a classroom.

January 19, 2007 8:42 PM

tingtawng says:

David - I think you're worrying too much about blighty. Are you joking about CVs?

I'm not a teacher by the way. I can't explain could, would and should. I can't explain how I walk, or how I swallow or how I fall asleep or why I hiccup sometimes. I just do these things without knowing how I do them.

If you worry about your hypothetical future job interviewer, your eye is already off the ball.

I don't know anyone living the life of riley in England - they're all wishing they were walking down Thanon Thaniya arm-in-arm with a 6 foot katoey.

Hey, jake - I had my appendix whipped out in Vachira Rongpayabahn!

January 19, 2007 10:12 PM

Fruit Batman says:

Hey bkkred,

Ever thought about using paragraphs?

Looks like you might have something interesting to add but I can't be arsed squinting at it for long enough to read it.

Keep up the good work - this is an important debate.

January 20, 2007 2:46 AM

Boston says:

"...having worked in Thailand is not considered a â€œstain on your characterâ€ in the international business world. To have been involved in managing one of the past or current major projects or running a company in Thailand is a plus on anyoneâ€™s CV. For most it is only one stop on a long list and no one is thought less of for having worked here."

Spot on.
The difference in perception can be summarised by the answer to a simple question ; did you choose to come to Thailand ( to find work ) or were you sent to Thailand ?

In the latter case it is usually someone who has been posted by an international company in order to help establish an overseas branch office.

In the former case - drifters or sex maniacs.

January 20, 2007 3:41 PM

Codejunkie says:

You're dead right about English teaching in Bangkok, careerwise it really is suicide. This 'Bill' reminds me of a character I met some years ago in Soi 7. Favorite dish: prawn cocktail. Chearful character yes, but a scoundrel indeed.

January 20, 2007 3:56 PM

bob says:

when you mention teachers to the gals they laugh and grimace .they are like beggars they say so they must know something eh ?
being hardup and penny pinching is their daily routine poor sods.

January 20, 2007 4:50 PM

Paul says:

So Codejunkie, by your definition I am either a drifter or a sex maniac? Actually, I am neither but it would be better than being a pompous prick!

January 20, 2007 5:35 PM

bob says:

maybe the teachers are happy to doss for years on subsistence wages if they are getting cheap or free shags to counterbalance their derisory income .

January 21, 2007 12:12 AM

Grunt says:

So the choices are;

1) Drone away in some well paid but utterly unrewarding corporate cubicle, then go home to a fat sociopathic minger wife and ungratefull dullard offspring.

or...

2) Teach english in an exotic locale, albeit at subsistence level, all the while sampling the finest girls Thai culture can provide.

Seems a bit of the old Milton quip going on here...

A bill that Senate Democrats have touted as a means to curb corruption in Washington could instead target some political bloggers with new regulations and even criminal penalties.

Better to reign in hell then serve in heaven?

January 21, 2007 2:39 AM

ketkonen says:

My, what a bunch of trainspotters you boys are, kicking the shit out of poor old English teachers. What are you, just a bunch of fuckwit alpha males bragging to a shoal of hookers about what great and successful guys you are. Err.....if that were the case you wouldn't HAVE to hang out with low class bar babes. Been to Thailand , seen you boys at work. Tremendous, each man a legend in his own ego.

TTFN

January 21, 2007 11:23 AM

Never going back says:

I'm an English teacher living in a not too far town from Bkk and i can say here and now, i'm never going back to the Uk.

who wants what's going on England now ? With all the influx of Eastern European's that's now happening , England is now unrecognisable as to what it once was....

As for career suicide, i was a digger driver in the uk, so i wasn't really climbing up the corporate ladder was i...? I earn 45,000b a month for a six day week, enough for me to have a happy and exciting life here in LOS. i don't consider myself scum , a sex tourist or the like, i genuinly feel i do a good job and am proud of the fact i'm a teacher, even a TEFL one.

With this shift in policie's toward's foreigners here , i am a little concerned about my future ,but there is no way i'm going back to the UK.I will teach in the remotest part of China, or even teach English to Al-Qaida in Afghanistan befor i do that.

January 21, 2007 3:10 PM

bkkred says:

I recently met a fine example of the alternative to teaching working in the land of smiles so beloved of some posters.Spent 30 minutes in a soi 7 bar getting a monologue from a bloke boasting about his wonderful job in the wild world of gypsum,which is some constituent of plaster apparently.He seemed genuinly facinated by something I believe comes in sacks and looks like ash.Each to his own I guess.

He claimed to be 35, and I would honestly have put ten years on him.Overwieght,balding with a grog and cigs habit that would probably put him into the ground a few years before he would be due to retire.He seemed to have done well in his profession but I would doupt he will ever get to spend it.
Forward you corporate warriors...I'm going to look for a teaching job.

January 21, 2007 7:11 PM

jutter says:

Hi Dave

Totally agree, teaching English does amount to career suicide, nobody back in blighty takes anyone whose done this seriously. The experience factor that you touch on is a really good point, it really can stuff you. On saying that I have known some TEFL teachers who have managed to get really good jobs back here but overall this is rare.

I also know know TEFLers who are driving round in Chelsea Tractors out in Dubai and who do 30 weeks work a year in Japan(get paid for the rest of the year) and spend most of their holidays hanging out in Thailand(last time I was in BKK with one of them he scored with 2 sisters in that really well known bar on Sukhumvit Road (you have to go downstairs, can't remember the name but its open until 2-massive meat market).

I have had so much hassle with my CV cos I spent far too many years teaching English (not in Bangkok)but have thankfully managed to turn this situation around.

I would certainly say don't get into TEFL and ,yeah, I'd say better off going to Japan or HK, Singapore etc. than BKK,despite BKK being a great city.

January 21, 2007 7:28 PM

jutter says:

Thermae

thats the name of the bar...

January 21, 2007 7:53 PM

Grunt says:

Teachers taking a real drubbing here lately.

So how much can an entry level TEFL teacher make, anyhow?

January 22, 2007 9:29 AM

dingdongrb says:

â€œEven if you're on an expat package, a stint in Thailand amounts to a stain on your character. Assignments in Hong Kong or Singapore might be good for the CV but, if you disclose to potential employers that you've been working in Bangkok, it's probably going to act against you.â€

Who the hell said anything about needing a good CV, or another job as that matters? I am currently an expat living in Thailand. Itâ€™s obviously Iâ€™m not a teacher since I make five times a teacherâ€™s salary. I will be a young fifty in two years and plan on retiring here in the LOS. It sure beats the chit out of trying to retire in the UK, US, or elsewhere, and work until the ripe old age of sixty-five plus. I plan to retire young, healthy, and have fun. I can afford to do all this in the LOS.

Boredom? Never! One is only bored if he has nothing in life to enjoy. I have many of hobbies and interests where I will always find something to occupy me while retiring. (And for you â€˜skanksâ€™ it has nothing to do with shagging BGs.) I will become bored when I die.

As for a â€˜stain on my characterâ€™, I am confident that if I were to ever need a job in the future being an expat in Thailand would only provide merits to what I do in the â€˜working worldâ€™. For you to say this you should first know my character to which you obviously have no clue. What a stereotyping article you have written. This goes to express your â€˜characterâ€™ to which I could only guess but Iâ€™ll leave it alone......as that would be only my opinion....and as Iâ€™ve said before....you know what opinions are like.

January 22, 2007 1:04 PM

Bruno says:

I off to BKK for a year and will pay my general day to day expenses via a teaching position. I dont think spending 12 months abroad doing something different to what I do at home is a negative thing.

My question for you is how many times do you live? I agree it is important to have a secure future, but if you spend all your time living for the future, what kind of life can you expect to have at the moment?

I resent the thought that I should work my arse off so I can enjoy it when im 60!

Live for the now as you could be dead tommorrow, so have fun and take the time to enjoy all the great things that life has to offer!

January 22, 2007 7:12 PM

Starkus says:

I find it hard to believe that you write your articles without some decent research into the issues that are at discussion here.

Experience, either from universities or jobs in Thailand, is internationally in non-english teacher or i-did-not-make-it-in-europe-and-now-i-am-a-
cool-dude-cause-i-can-afford-cheap-whores-
in-bkk circles, mostly highly regarded. A look at the reputation of the business degrees of Chulalongkorn University or the Asian Institute of Technology and some of the business ventures will prove you and some of the posters here that relevant experience gathered in Thailand will bring your career further.

On the english teacher thing, I have met a couple of english teachers in Asia by now, and my impression of them was that they are that kind of globetrotter adventuros type often living under more poor conditions but with good motivation, not as you describe, somne losers who cannot control their situation. So to my experience in the real world, those guys will compensate missing job knowledge easily with soft skills and live experience.

Otherwise, even though often discriminating I like your writing and the humor on this site. So please keep up the good work.

Cheers,

Starkus

January 22, 2007 9:54 PM

Adam says:

Well having just spent the night in jail I might stick to telling people I live in Bangkok! But then again, I don't teach.

January 24, 2007 3:43 PM

Fruit Batman says:

This talk of Thermae Bar reminds me of an interesting statistic.

The record time for 'pulling' a bird in there is held by a friend of mine and stands at 17 seconds.

Can anyone top that?

January 24, 2007 10:15 PM

Socittoem says:

Couldnt agree with you more David. Looking at a CV of a male english teacher who has lived in BKK for a long period spells either lazy, pervert or someone with a fetish for ladyboyz, and definitely unemployable. Dont live in thailand myslef but been there and have met the teachers, an unusual breed of people.

I would love to live out in asia for a bit, and yes i fall into one of the categorys above. The trick is to work ure b"lls off before u go out so u can buy and income generating asset before u quit ure job, or maybe just sell drugs when u get back home.

January 25, 2007 6:06 AM

Raggers says:

Judging others rarely accomplishes anything other than to reveal the identity of those who needs to judge. In other words calling someone an a**hole doesn't make him one. It only reveals a person with a need to call someone an ass.

January 27, 2007 5:17 PM

ajarn farang says:

english teaching is not a real career and the more people perpetuate the notion that it is, the worse for those who delude themselves and stick at it for too long.

teaching english is a job you can do for a few years and is both a valuable and under-valued job. it's not a career though. i want to barf when i see those "merits of using songs in the esl classroom" articles.

nothing wrong with doing it for a few years and living the good life; learning about other cultures and helping others. eventually though, you start to question who actually has it best - you the university lecturer in bkk, or nigel the binman in blackpool?

by the way, thai universities are generally shit because they refuse to enforce standards. they can't be compared with western universities. i taught english to students doing a computing degree and they couldn't even format text in word. there is good reason for them being ranked 951st best uni in the world, i.e. if the grades don't tell the right story, rewrite the story.

January 27, 2007 6:16 PM

Common Sense says:

ajarn farang,
You stated: "teaching english is a job you can do for a few years and is both a valuable and under-valued job"

If it's so undervalued then why do Thais speak such shitty english.

One of my biggest pet peeves is those who say that teachers are underpaid for the service they provide. I say HORSE SHIT. To prove my point just look at all the fuckin stupid people in this world.

You also have those who say if the teachers were paid better, they would do a better job. WHAT THE FUCK is that about. Imagine someone in any other job going into salary negotiations saying give me more money and I'll do better work. YEAH FUCKIN RIGHT YOU WILL. Performance comes first, then monetary and other forms of recognition.

Teachers need a good bitch slapping to bring them back to reality. Performance not sympathy is the only thing that will bring you what you desire.

January 28, 2007 1:17 PM

Prufrock says:

"Common shares": a dummy's angst: One of my biggest pet peeves is those who say that teachers are underpaid for the service they provide. I say HORSE SHIT. To prove my point just look at all the fuckin stupid people in this world.

Res ipsa loquitur, as Common Sense bares all and comes clean for his puzzled fans.

Thanks Common
"Pruferred shares"

January 28, 2007 10:08 PM

Road Natzi says:

Carrie,

Fuggly, do you think that I actually want you to know which bar my family has invested so much money in, so you can attend and break a stool by sitting on it, or perhaps polute the place with your ugliness.

Of course a bitter old trailer trash junkie like yourself would probably like to break or smash something on purpose.....you big tuffie, damage my stuff while im in another country.

I gain absolutely nothing by giving that away to you, you stupid grrrr.

Slutguts (if you could actually find someone to fhark you that is), perhaps I should say, 'thing with a million plastic things hanging from her smelly twat' I just want you to rest happily knowing that you may already be spending money in thailand and in doing so making me money, cos my immeidate family has been doing well there for over 25 years and the married in half is actually thai ..... geeze wouldnt that be a pity if I was getting some of ur money. I hope you keep getting ripped off, YOU SILLY FALANG !!

January 28, 2007 11:07 PM

john says:

Good job taking a shit on your fans. Fuck you. I hope this site drops off the face of the planet. It's a shame because I used to like reading it.

January 29, 2007 12:33 PM

Road Natzi says:

John,

What has made you so angry? Are you sure you've posted on the correct site?

January 29, 2007 2:25 PM

ajarn farang says:

Dear Common Sense,

You wrote:

"If it's so undervalued then why do Thais speak such shitty english."

Is this entirely the fault of the teachers or the education system? When you have a set-up that cannot accept failure, preferring to let things slide, you end up getting a snowball effect. What do you do with a student who has not applied themselves and has not acquired any English in over 10 years of study? Give them a place on a Masters course taught almost exclusively in English; don't worry if their essays are gobbledigook - just give them the degree anyway (they can use it to wipe their arse with)!

Another reason is that they learn a lot of it from Thais who either cannot speak it themselves or who do not know how to teach it effectively. They will often conduct entire English lessons in Thai with a few English words thrown in for good measure.

"One of my biggest pet peeves is those who say that teachers are underpaid for the service they provide. I say HORSE SHIT. To prove my point just look at all the fuckin stupid people in this world."

Some are just born stupid, I guess; others simply aren't interested in learning.

"Teachers need a good bitch slapping to bring them back to reality. Performance not sympathy is the only thing that will bring you what you desire."

Even if they couldn't teach for shit, a teacher with a university degree in Bkk should be getting 50K baht per month at least (whether they could or would pay it is a different matter). Do many of these bullshit tefl jobs offer PRP? I think not (would be good if they did).

Some of these people actually call themselves "ESL professionals" or "Communication Consultants". Shoot us all and put us out of our miseries.

January 29, 2007 10:50 PM

Assadd says:

Bitterness comes from not integrating into the society where you are an expat. I used to hear the same bitterness from some gaikokujins living in Japan. Can't really expect the society or it's people to change much to match you. If a Thai person is THAT flexible, they probably moved abroad already or are in line for somebody ... but not somebody who flaunts his bar-hopping. Like a Thai guy, you would have to be discreet about things like philandering with the ladies. The moment you confess, you're too "weak" and won't be seen as a cool, calm, collected guy. Not to be cool, calm, and collected in Thailand -- and in the rest of the world, but especially Asian countries with any Buddhist background -- is, well, not "cool."

If you want to get adjusted to Thailand, you can. You just have to not expect anything. Of course, you have to have some money, too. Then after you have earned the money (usually, abroad, in your country of origin, where you have higher economic value), you get to Thailand and avoid allowing yourself to become a "walking ATM." That is, be cheap but don't let anyone see you being cheap.

Is that clear?

February 3, 2007 2:12 PM

Wickerman says:

I've been to about 25 countries besides Thailand, sampled the wares in most of them, and I'm convinced that all things considered, Thai ladies are the best in the world.
I longed to stay there but the heat, poverty, smog, and lack of employment oportunities in my profession just wouldn't permit it.
So I lived the life of a corporate slave in California for far too many years.
Maybe it isn't too late to try it.
God! I love those wonderful ladies,
Wistful Wickerman

February 6, 2007 10:01 AM

Can't Run Me Out says:

Getting run out is better than getting thrown in jail! I heard this from a link from khoratcat's site, talk thailand: http://www.newstalkasia.com/index.php?id=62

This is definitely worse than getting kicked out.

February 25, 2007 6:07 PM

jerseyjoe says:

what a crock of shit.After being ripped off by arseholes all over thailand, you get to know the script.Teaching english is a rewarding job, and you can save money if your not stupid,or maybe open a language school,or even do a bit of import export.If you get pissed off with it move on to another country there is thousands of jobs all over the world.

March 3, 2007 11:58 AM

DrSkosha says:

I think that this article is true to an extent, however my friend has done very well in Thailand starting as a teacher and rising through the ranks. Its not bad for all. Anyways I am an offshore worker so WTF do I care, I'm loaded! lol

March 4, 2007 8:33 PM

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